G15, x-keys, repeating keypress function

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02-19-2008, 05:18 AM
Nixi

G15, x-keys, repeating keypress function

I just started programming my extra keys on my G15. I love how it has options to repeat while the key is pressed down.

I mapped my G1 key to a button that runs my castsequence macro for my basic totem setup. Strength of earth, windfury, mana regen, and wrath. I also added another button for my click_smartbuff macro. So the G1 key is programmed to "8 press down, 8 release, 9 press down, 9 release" I then set the key to repeat mode, where i press it and hold it to have it repeat and then release it to stop repeating.

In game it doesn't work that well. If i press it (g1), it'll hammer the 8 and 9 button like 1000 times per second. If i just stand there, it'll cycle through all the buffs and i'll release the button (g1) and it stops. When I have the button (g1) pressed down running the macro (hitting 8 and 9) i can barely do any other actions. If i try to mouse look the camera zips around and acts all weird and it's just difficult to control.

I was hoping I could get a hardware/software combo that could be programmed (just like the G15 and xkeys where you map a special key to like Alt+1) and also have a repeating function. I envisioned myself playing like this.

Hold the buff (G1) key while running off to my target to get buffs cycling,

Pull my target back. Release the (G1) button again to stop buffs

Hold my open fire (g2) button so it will repeat while I gain control of the adds with my warrior.

release the open fire (g2) button while i refocus targets.

oh shit, a patrol! Need to heal the warrior. Press my Heal Tank (g7) button so it spams heal while i control the fight.

release the (g7) heal tank button to stop healing once things are under control.

Press the AOE shit to death (g10) button to get the fight over with. Release all buttons (repeating keys) at the conclusion. Loot and move on.

I feel like this could work with the way the G15 operates, but i think it repeats the key press too quickly. Is there a way to adjust this frequency?

With x-keys, can i adjust the frequency of the repeat or are there even problems with holding down more than one repeatable key?

Is there other macro recording software available that could offer more control with the way keys are repeated? I'm willing to purchase other hardware / software options.

Button mashing was fun fo the first year and a half i played wow. Now my fingers and wrists are starting to get tired and I have to take more frequent breaks. I think this would go a long way to keep the fucntionality i'm looking for without worsening my repeatitive strain injury.

[edit] Completely removed any mention of the 'toggle' function while using the G15. It's derailing the topic.
02-19-2008, 05:54 AM
Shogun

What you describe is a form of botting, which means it's against the TOS/EULA for the game so I'd recommend you don't do it, being a bannable offense n' all that...

edit: of course if you really want to do it, the G15 software is more than capable of it, you just need to add in delays etc iirc.
02-19-2008, 06:02 AM
Ziran

XKeys cannot explicitly adjust key repeat speed. If you set the transmit frequency to slow though it is pretty slow (about 4-5 presses per second).

Pressing two repeating keys does not work on Xkeys. Xkeys can only play ONE macro at a time. Having two repeating macros play at the same time does not work.

You can chain two XKeys together and have each play a repeating macro and that will work.

Personally what I have done is buy two XKeys foot pedals and program one to repeat spam flash heal on tank and the other to repeat spam my "mage attack sequence macro". I did have to put these on a separate multiplexer because with two xkeys playing a repeating macro effectively saturated the PS2 connection (The keys from other XKeys Pros were not getting through with both auto macros playing).

Ziran
02-19-2008, 06:49 AM
Nixi

Not looking to add delays in the macro or to have software make decisions for me. I'm just looking to alleviate button mashing by holding in a key and have it repeatedly press. I'm pretty sure it's not against the TOS. I suppose i don't need the 'toggle' function. I could just hold the buttons down, but ziran confirmed my fears, you can't press two repeating keys at once with the x-keys.

What about the n52 or any other hardware devices? Anyway i could hold down two repeating keys without overloading anything and still have a nice response while playing?

Thanks so much for the reply Ziran, I've had my eyes on the xkey foot pedals for awhile now. If there are no other options i might pick'em up.
02-19-2008, 07:36 AM
Notes

If you use this in World of Warcraft on a live server, you will get your accounts banned.

Auto buffing and aoe'ing like you mention isn't possible in a legal way, you will have to press teh buttons yourself.

Sorry if you'r on about another game but seems to me it's WoW ;)
02-19-2008, 07:46 AM
Nixi

really? I had no clue using a repeat key was against the rules. Looks like my fingers won't get a break. ><

I thought using delays, movement, etc. were the only things against the tos; not using a turbo button like on a nintendo controller.

[edit] i just did some digging because i remember reading about the x-keys and the repeat button before on one of the forum guides. I had originally thought, damn, that'll be nice for my wrist and here's the post that mentions it:

Multiboxing Wiki - My 5 (Now 10!) Boxing WoW Writeup

Quote:

"Any of the X-Keys can be programmed to repeat when held down and of course they can store macros and not just a single keypress or combination of key presses. Whatever you wind up getting, make sure they are PS/2 and NOT USB."

................

Quote:

"You can program the X-keys to repeat characters (spell casts, etc) - this greatly helps alleviate repetitive strain injury as you can just hold it down instead of mashing keys over and over. See the manual, linked above, for more details."

I don't know if Xzin uses the repeating key function, but if he does I guess he's not banned yet.
02-19-2008, 08:59 AM
Notes

If it's legal I'll be buying that x keyz pro thing ...

The big master said it yeah but it's strange though .. Can't automate anything, but if you use this function, it's all of a sudden legal ? WoW will still see keystroke imputs from 1 key, all with the exact time between them .. Atleast that's how it works, right. So some bells must be ringing at Blizz's

Or I juts have no idea what it means exactly...
02-19-2008, 01:00 PM
Tehtsuo

I've been using my n52 with a repeat while pressed macro for 2+ years. I don't think it's legal in the strictest sense of the WoW terms of service, however Blizzard doesn't seem to care (which I'm not suprised about). My first button just spams the 1 key like no tomorrow when I play my rogue, but then again 90% of rogues do that manually, so who's the wiser?

However, getting more in depth with long delays and several different keys in macros is a different end of the spectrum. I personally wouldn't try it, even to make an autobuff macro.
02-19-2008, 02:15 PM
Ziran

I too had no issues with repeating keys and WoW ToS/GMs. I have two foot pedals each programmed to spam a key then when released press another key once (stop casting macro). So it looks like this when you hold it for awhile then release:

11111111112

Mind you there are no delays at all in the macro. It looks exactly as if you spammed the key by hand over and over about 4 presses a second.

I can use this as both my spam flash heal/attack castsequence macro or as stop casting since the key at the end is stop casting.

Ziran
02-19-2008, 02:20 PM
Ziran

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Tehtsuo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=36813#post3 6813

However, getting more in depth with long delays and several different keys in macros is a different end of the spectrum. I personally wouldn't try it, even to make an autobuff macro.

Before 2.3.2 patch this kind of macro worked:

/castsequence [target=party1] Buffname,,,,
/castsequence [target=party2] ,Buffname,,,
/castsequence [target=party3] ,,Buffname,,

However since 2.3.2 multiple castsequence within one macro (even if they do not invoke GCD) no longer work. So no more one button autobuff.

I just programmed a couple of XKeys on a stick with buff macros and I just press the keys in sequence to get the buffs done. It is not that bad.

Ziran
02-19-2008, 03:43 PM
Nixi

Tehtsuo, when you hit the repeating key with the n52, does it hinder your gameplay in any way? When i press the button with my g15, it sends the key press at a rate of like 60+ times a second causing my combat log to fill with spell cast errors and freeze my game the whole time it's held down.

Ziran, same question. Will it lag your game using the x-keys footpedal?

Anyone else use a G15 to do a repeat key and not have the problem i'm describing?

Just to clarify. I'm not looking to do anything fancy. Hell, I don't even need to buff with the repeat key. It would be nice just to hit the "1" button repeatedly with an interval that is slow enough not to freeze my game. I just want to cast the same spell over and over.

I just tried to adjust the repeat delay inside of windows and the g15 is still hammering the button down like a jackhammer. I'm starting to think my g15 is a lemon, because when i hit the button in notepad, it'll fill it up and not stop even after releasing the button or tapping it again. I have to force notepad to close or it won't quit.
02-19-2008, 07:10 PM
kllrwlf

Repeating keys are against the TOS.

Blizz wants, 1 press of a key, to do 1 spell and that's it. Not 1 press of a key, do a spell.. do the spell again... do the spell again.
02-20-2008, 05:54 AM
Nixi

Best I could find in the TOU that has anything to do with this is:

Quote:

4. Limitations on Your Use of the Service.

b. You agree that you will not (i) modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Program or the Service; (ii) create or use cheats, bots, "mods", and/or hacks, or any other third-party software designed to modify the World of Warcraft experience; or (iii) use any third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Program or the Service. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may update the Program with authorized patches and updates distributed by Blizzard, and Blizzard may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces.

But this talks about a variety of more malicious behaviors and I'm sure a repeating key doesn't fall into this catagory.

Then there is the real winner here:

Quote:

5. Rules of Conduct.

C. Rules Related to Game Play

3. Anything that Blizzard considers contrary to the "essence" of the Program.

Which is Blizzard's all-purpose ban tool. However that is so vague that you'll have to show me other information outside of the TOU and EULA that says a repeating key is contrary to the "essence" of the program.

I haven't found anything in the EULA or TOU that would cause me to believe holding down "A" instead of hammering "A" is a violation.

Regardless. I'm sure there are still people that use them and haven't gotten banned and aren't worried about it.

Let's just continue the thread on-topic with the disclaimer that it could possibily be against the "essence" so we all can be aware of the risk. There are obviously members of this forum that have used this function from their hardware devices for a long time and haven't had any problems.

If there is anyone that has experience with using the hardware/software, but doesn't want the inquisition to see them admit to it, please send me a personal message.

References:

[http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html] TERMS OF USE AGREEMENT

[http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/eula.html] END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
02-20-2008, 07:04 AM
Oldin

I doubt the repeating key while you hold down the key is so bad, but sticky key that repeats while you are not holding it down would be. Since in theory that allows you to play the game without being at the keyboard yourself.
02-20-2008, 07:15 AM
Nixi

Removed any mention of the toggle function because it's derailing the focus of the topic.
02-21-2008, 04:21 PM
Xar

RE: G15, x-keys, repeating keypress function

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Nixi',index.php?page=Thread&postID=36747#post3674 7

G1 key is programmed to "8 press down, 8 release, 9 press down, 9 release" I then set the key to repeat mode, where i press it and hold it to have it repeat and then release it to stop repeating.

From what I've read and learned so far I believe what I quoted might get you in trouble, getting two actions that trigger the global cooldown for 1 physical keypress (whether you are holding it down to spam it or pressing the G1 key only once). To my knowledge any non combat actions can be macro'd/programmed, etc. without problem, it's when the global cooldown is triggered that you need 1:1.

If you want to be a one-button wonder you need to macro a castsequence and then spam that one key, if you plan it right between your toons you can have them all do different things triggered by that 1 key and tie it to something you are constantly doing on your main toon.

Personally I like choosing my heals and casts (and if I spammed flash heal on my priest I'd go oom fast) but as I play with more toons (mixed classes) it's getting more complicated and am so having to practice a lot more.
02-22-2008, 01:37 AM
Xar

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=37294#pos t37294

Not sure if this is relevant or not...

But last night I had to smash my G15. Everytime I would type 4+ keys, it would auto-backspace and delete three of them. LIke.. typing "BACK" would type out "B... A... C.... <backspace when I hit the k>.

Unplugging... rebooting... different PCs... etc... nothing helped. Finally I got annoyed and smashed it with my first (like a hammer). Space bar whet flying....
...

Woohoo! Some PvK action! 8o

Kidding aside, I did that years ago after getting very frustrated and my hand and wrist hurt so much I've never done it again, I think I lost that round.
02-22-2008, 02:20 AM
Nixi

RE: RE: G15, x-keys, repeating keypress function

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Xar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=37271#post37271

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Nixi',index.php?page=Thread&postID=36747#post3674 7

G1 key is programmed to "8 press down, 8 release, 9 press down, 9 release" I then set the key to repeat mode, where i press it and hold it to have it repeat and then release it to stop repeating.

From what I've read and learned so far I believe what I quoted might get you in trouble, getting two actions that trigger the global cooldown for 1 physical keypress (whether you are holding it down to spam it or pressing the G1 key only once). To my knowledge any non combat actions can be macro'd/programmed, etc. without problem, it's when the global cooldown is triggered that you need 1:1.

If you want to be a one-button wonder you need to macro a castsequence and then spam that one key, if you plan it right between your toons you can have them all do different things triggered by that 1 key and tie it to something you are constantly doing on your main toon.

Personally I like choosing my heals and casts (and if I spammed flash heal on my priest I'd go oom fast) but as I play with more toons (mixed classes) it's getting more complicated and am so having to practice a lot more.

I guess it was poor planning to have the Gkey hit "8" and "9" on my part; my totem cast sequence is on my shaman (button 8 ), and the smart buff button is on the other toons (button 9). So i'm only getting 1:1 GCD per character when the button is pressed. I can move my totem cast sequence to button 9 on the shaman and just map the 9 to the G1 and turn on the "repeat while pressed down" option. This would use smartbuff on my buffers and totems on the shaman.

Now I don't even feel like going that route. If I'm going to use a repeating key it's going to be for my "open fire" button that is the attack castsequence on all the clones. But I still have the same problem. My G15 keyboard is pulsing the key too fast and locking up my wow client. I just want another potential hardware option. I really appreciate the replies I got so far about the n52 and the x-keys. I'm pricing the shipping on the x-keys now and it's a whopping 72 dollars. ($362 total for the xkey pro and footpedal plus shipping) I think I can buy an n52 at my location, but deciding on the xkeys works like this for me right now, "more buttons, or another monitor".