There is no perfect class make-up!

After reading the last few threads, I thought I would throw this out there:

There is no perfect class make-up, whether 5xdruid / 5xshammy / 1xpally+4xshammy / etc. I think even if you know exactly what kind of content you want to face, there is not a specific setup that you should use. There are rules of thumb found throughout this site, but no hard and fast rules (only recommendations to make life a little easier). One of the best parts of being a boxer is that you get to mess around with your setup and try new things.

For anyone looking to decide what class to play, consider playing whatever class you would like to play. The first time I dual-boxed, I ran a shammy and a druid - not because this site said it would make my life easier, but because I had never played those chars and wanted to give them a shot. I rolled a pally-priest group after that for the same reason.

For those who visit this site frequently, we might want to look at the stickied beginner posts and see if there are edits that should be made to address some of the recent questions as they appear to be repeating.

Lies.

You're just trying to steer people away from the greatness that is pally+4shaman.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35842#pos t35842

Part (most?) of the fun of multiboxing is tweaking things. Experimenting. Learning. Breaking new ground. Pushing the limits. etc. Being unique!

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I was unique....

... until everyone started rolling SHAMMIES and a PROT PALLY!


If we had a master sticky that was linked on the top bar of the forum (Members, Help, Chat, THE MASTER STICKY) that was just a FAQ with links to each respective sticky for answers... I think we might make a dent.

I might also take Fursphere up and write a book that includes all of my macros, addons, instance strats, talent points, key bindings, buff list, hair styles, favorite color, phone number, date of birth, social security number... you get the idea -- anyway, I might do that and make a easy to type link just like my multiboxing FAQ so we can just reply with the URL and be done with it...

On second thought... scratch the social security number

My approach is from one character's strength and weaknesses.

My first character was a warrior and I played it and learned how it is.

Then eventually, I come upon things in the game that I can't quite do, or do well. I would say, if I only had some small heal over time, I can take on these 2 mobs. The idea of a priest standing in the back tossing heals over time sounded great. And what about the priest tossing from dots on my warrior's target as well?

Soon I am taking on 3 mobs at a time. My first challenge back at level 60 was how do I clear those 5 packs (Officer, medic, +3) in BRD to get that dark iron node. I could almost tank all 5, but that damn officer and medic heals. Simple tank and spank wasn't enough.

I eventually learned how to handle that 5 pack. Mind control on the medic kills the medic fast. During the MC, The warrior charges the lowest add. When the medic dies, warrior does AoE and priest dps the one fast. After the fear is gone, I'm back to a 3 mob situation.

Fast forward to TBC. I levelled a paladin on my priest's account, and I end up having a Warrior + Paladin at level 60. I did not do BRD as much, but when I did quests, I found out that my Paladin can handle 3+ mobs without a healer. It sure was slower, but I used my warrior as DPS with some good shouts and debuff that benefits the paladin tanking: thunderclap, demo shout, and battleshout to speed up the killing.

Anyway, when it comes to instances, a tank is a tank no matter what class. The tank's job "buys time" or helps increased the "margin of error" I can do in a fight before things get out of control. That's how I approach it; based on what the game event and mechanics.

A warrior can do the tanking job. It may not be as efficient as front load threat. but a warrior has a bit more health and mitigation compared to a paladin when "just stating out and gearing up." This little bit of advantage can be overcome by a paladin over time as the paladin gets geared up.

Overall, the paladin is "easier" to micro manage in normal 5-man instances. Having a high DPS team helps here.

But when it comes to heroic, a fresh paladin geared with quest items and random blues will most likely not last versus heroic trash without good heals, and good dps. That's verus 1 trash heroic mob. What are you going to do with the other 2 or 3 mobs in a pull?

A similarly geared starting out warrior for a heroic instance will have a slightly more hp and slightly better mitigation than a similarly geared paladin. It will still not be trivial to tank one heroic mob. He'll have a much hard time tanking 2 as a paladin regardless of threat.

The heroic videos shows high DPS team. These teams have been geared well above the heroic trash mob encounter, and just about even par with certain boss mob encounter. I fresh DPS team with quest items and random blues will not survive the first pull of a heroic instance. They will not have enough dps, and not enough health to survive a couple of heroic trash mob hits. Having a tank "buys you time" to learn that encounter. Or if you don't have a tank, then you would be farming for better gear before you tackle a heroic instance as a pure dps team.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35870#pos t35870

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35853#post3 5853

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35842#pos t35842

Part (most?) of the fun of multiboxing is tweaking things. Experimenting. Learning. Breaking new ground. Pushing the limits. etc. Being unique!

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I was unique....

... until everyone started rolling SHAMMIES and a PROT PALLY!

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Hey, I gave the Prot. Warrior an honest try before rolling my own Paladin. (lvl 20! woooo) :P And I do plan on dropping on of my Shaman and adding in my Shadow Priest at some point too for fun.

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I love how you keep trying to make out like your some kind of trendsetter vyn. That timeline post you made made me lol. :) Must have taken a fair bit of time to put that together. :thumbsup:

Everyone knows that I'm the trendsetter...

There we go Vyn, I updated my sig so there'll be no doubt.

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Originally Posted by 'Lance',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35871#post358 71

I love how you keep trying to make out like your some kind of trendsetter vyn. That timeline post you made made me lol. :) Must have taken a fair bit of time to put that together. :thumbsup:

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I got the energy to write that timeline out of the sheer frustration. When I first started my shammy group and was told that I wouldn't be viable, or that shamans don't make good healers, or that shamans could not succeed in PvP without viable AoE. And then when Ellay got his PvP team rolling and people started flocking to shammies in droves, I had to deal with the second frustration of being considered what is now an OP "FOTM" setup.

It's not a FOTM to me.

I rolled the shammies cuz I had a 70 resto shammy already, and I needed a tank, so I swapped between warrior and paladin before choosing to keep the paladin after level 40. Trial and error. Research and determination.

I never want to see it reduced to "lawl feed me PvP/PvE epix kthxbai"

Go do a forum search for 6 months ago and look at the people who didn't just roll with the 4x warlock 1x priest "FOTM" group that was so rampant back then. They had an idea and regardless of criticism they took it and made it work. You don't see much creativity on these forums anymore in regards to class setups.


...ok I'm done with my serious hat now. :D

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Originally Posted by 'elo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35877#post35877

There we go Vyn, I updated my sig so there'll be no doubt.

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Haha!

Seriously, though. I don't want followers. I just want people to think critically for themselves and what class setup works best for their goals -- not what they think might be easysauce or OP. Most of this forum contains smart, intelligent folks that I love to spend time with and discuss new ideas with.

Besides, if there isn't any interesting, intelligent conversation on these forums, what else would I do while I'm at work?

I'm just trying to prove a point - when I first started there wasn't anyone to hold my hand and tell me how I should run my "FOTM" setup. There's a certain wisdom to be gained in facing difficulties and succeeding, and in finding your own "perfect group" and perfect macros and perfect strats. Sharing knowledge is well and good, but learning things yourself is way more valuable.

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35853#post3 5853

I might also take Fursphere up and write a book that includes all of my macros, addons, instance strats, talent points, key bindings, buff list, hair styles, favorite color, phone number, date of birth, social security number... you get the idea -- anyway, I might do that and make a easy to type link just like my multiboxing FAQ so we can just reply with the URL and be done with it...

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Front cover must include belly ring pictures...

Warrior, Priest, 3xMages. :P

Edit: I must admit I didn't really read the entire thread before I posted but I'm sticking with my answer anyways. Tank + Healer + CC. Although if you wanted to PvP it probably won't work out too well

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35853#post3 5853

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35842#pos t35842

Part (most?) of the fun of multiboxing is tweaking things. Experimenting. Learning. Breaking new ground. Pushing the limits. etc. Being unique!

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I was unique....

... until everyone started rolling SHAMMIES and a PROT PALLY!

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Not to burst your bubble, but whether it's multibox or not it's a game! Are we allowed to play it as such to enjoy it? There is no monopoly on any certain class combo. I played a multi-class setup till 44, and enjoyed it, despite minor frustrations. However, I already had a high level pally, and after what I'd read and seen about how shammies are fun so decided to try, they ended up overtaking my multi-class team for the simple fact that I enjoy them more.... not because I wanna follow some trend or look cool.

My previous main was always a hunter, not cos it was my 1st char, or because it's cool (cos hunters are blatantly the most hated class), but simply because I enjoyed it most.

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Originally Posted by Kyudo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35910#post3591 0][quote='Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35853 #post35853]
[quote='Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=358 42#post35842]Part (most?) of the fun of multiboxing is tweaking things. Experimenting. Learning. Breaking new ground. Pushing the limits. etc. Being unique! [/quote]

I [i]was[/i] unique....

... until everyone started rolling SHAMMIES and a PROT PALLY!

[/quote]Not to burst your bubble, but whether it's multibox or not it's a game! Are we allowed to play it as such to enjoy it? There is no monopoly on any certain class combo. [b]I played a multi-class setup till 44[/b], and enjoyed it, despite minor frustrations. However, [b]I already had a high level pally, [/b]and after what I'd read and seen about how shammies are fun so decided to try, they ended up overtaking my multi-class team for the simple fact that[b] I enjoy them more[/b].... not because I wanna follow some trend or look cool.

My previous main was always a hunter, not cos it was my 1st char, or because it's cool (cos hunters are blatantly the most hated class), but simply because I enjoyed it most.[/quote]


Not to burst your bubble, but it was SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY. ;)
(If you don't know the reason why, look at Fursphere's setup. ;) Darn copycat. Hehe)
Jeez, people have been so uptight recently.

People who look at class combos, think critically, and decide for themselves what they want to play are exactly the people I mentioned here:
[quote='Vyndree

I just want people to think critically for themselves and what class setup works best for their goals -- not what they think might be easysauce or OP. Most of this forum contains smart, intelligent folks that I love to spend time with and discuss new ideas with.

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The people I have issues with are related to the original post. We're getting a bajillion posts about people wanting a group that "does awesome in battlegrounds, arenas, raids, heroics, pve, and pvp" without taking the time or effort to think realistically, originally, or with a achievable personal goal in mind. IMO, the fact we have so many shammy groups is because, instead of thinking about what works best for themselves (like you mentioned you did above), people just copycat whatever the FOTM is.

Now, looking at your situation specifically, I'd say you stand out from the norm for the reasons I bolded in your quote. You TRIED another group set up, which clearly means you did research on your mixed group. You ran into difficulties, and researched the shammy setups on the forums and decided on your own that it would be a better group. You had experience with a pally at 70 so sounds like you found synergy with that. Cool -- great job. :) You didn't just waltz onto the boards and ask to be spoon fed information and an IWIN button. :)

Happened with 4x warlock/1x priest. Happens now with 5x shammy and 4x shammy/1x pally groups.

You're an idiot if you think that there isn't a best setup for any given situation. Being able to figure out what that setup is is another story though. Just because there are a lot of possible combinations that can be successful doesn't mean they are equal. There is a big difference between needing 8 hours and many wipes to complete an instance and being able to run it in under an hour with no wipes. Theres also a difference between a 52 minute run and a 51 minute run. Just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean it isn't there.

Ok I get your drift, sorry if I caused offense. However, as a start group I'd highly recommend pally and 4 shamans for anyone starting out multiboxing. It's reasonably easy to set up, viable almost immediately in instances, and has viablility in PvP too. If it's good, why not recommend it. Things will become popular because they work well, nothing wrong with that. As proven by the "FOTM" phenomenon, people are unlikely to post videos of sucky groups that they can't controll and keep wiping with :O Plus given the investment in time it takes to get to 40+ I have no issues with anyone who wants to know what a decent viable group is for this or that purpose, however I do agree that 1st time posters often need to research what is already posted, or understand better their eventual aims at times.

As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, there are other combos out there that will definately also work, but others that are less tried and tested. As is also often mentioned, there are is a much smaller body of players who actually have 70 teams to glean decent information from vs normal single 70 play. Skarlot is going a long way to proving that multi-class setups can be very powerful, and yourself Vyndree, along with the Motes, Ellay and various others are blazing a semi-unknown trail.

So I agree with the sentiment held above, my advice to any new 5 or 4 box starter would be as follows:

1) Consider your end game goals
2) Decide if you are happpy to roll with classes you are less familiar with
3) Decide (and test to 20 or 30) if you have the sort of brain that can handle and wants to experience the challenge (and the 20 fingeredness) of multiple class setups.
4) Do your research and plan it all out
5) Do what feels most fun to you... as mentioned before, it's a game, not an epic factory.

Blah blah etc, late here, champagne rambles ftw 8|

Bottom line, play what you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by 'Ripper',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35922#post35 922

Bottom line, play what you enjoy.

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It appears as if I am quoting this post because I believe it has a certain amount of validity

"The Beauty of running is its simplicity - just one foot in front of the other"

Runners Magazine March 2008

I find that when ever I have a bad day at work, or I am struggling with an issuie that is getting me down I simply go running. I run till I either have the problem worked out in my head or I am just to tired to give a hoot. In either case I come back refreshed. And worse come to worse dont take life to serous. You will never make it out alive.

Have a Nice Day :)

Note: I just thoguht I would post this to maybe make someones day better.

Running gets me down and this is an issue I struggle with.

Just so that you know, I hate you.



Oh yeah, we aren't unique, we are part of a group that plays a certain way.



Yes, most of us are nice people and willing to help.



No, I am not a nice person GTFO



The few of us at 70 on Mag are a really tight knit group now, and while we are willing to help people, I don't want to answer your 20 million whispers in game while, I'm trying to do bombing quests for dailies. Here's an idea do what most of us did, read stuff, figure it out on your own and quit being like 95% of Western Society, who are too lazy to do anything on their own.



You want to try and bring someone down for making a statement these are not the forums to do such, you try it and I will flame your ass from here til you get taken off the boards.



Beginner questions go in the Beginners Haven.



I like double spacing.



Any questions? Hit 70 on your five box group and then come talk to me or down Vashj and/or Kael and whisper me on my Pally Team that does both regularly.



BWAAAAAAA



end post

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Originally Posted by 'Zaelar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35914#post35 914

You're an idiot if you think that there isn't a best setup for any given situation. Being able to figure out what that setup is is another story though. Just because there are a lot of possible combinations that can be successful doesn't mean they are equal. There is a big difference between needing 8 hours and many wipes to complete an instance and being able to run it in under an hour with no wipes. Theres also a difference between a 52 minute run and a 51 minute run. Just because you can't tell the difference doesn't mean it isn't there.

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Idiot?! What makes you think you are the god of multi-boxing? Climb down from your high horse already. And yes, there is no "perfect" setup - there are setups which are better than others (which you point out - thanks for that great insight), but there will never be a perfect setup for any scenario - there are too many variables (play style, personal preference, equip, pull order, etc.). If you still disagree with me, you may want to look up the definition of perfect in a dictionary.

My main point was that people should not stress so much about what class to pick and have fun playing - it's a game!

I have been following this site for months and have not seen as many posts flaming one another as have popped up in the last few days. Guess the friendly / helpful multi-boxing community here is going to get bogged down in people jumping all over each other like the wow forums.

okay guys just make sticky "5 rogues is the best setup evah" and dont stress each other :P

Hi.

Stop flaming each other or I lock thread.

kthxbai

My post was made the way it is for two purposes. While not the best way to explain it, it explains it in a simple way in hopes that it is easy for someone with somewhat limited intelligence to understand. It is also meant to offend idiots. I apologize to any non-idiots who were offended.

In defense of some of the people who did start late (as I did, i started my multibox group in late dec) i also rolled 4x Shammies.

I saw Ellays pvP video and it honestly blew me away, absolutly whipped my world around on its head, it was incredible. I thought for a couple weeks if I wanted to multibox, i read as much as I could on the forums, I tested out the software at work and at home, and I worked out on paper and in excel spreadsheets what classes had what advantages, and what my goals were.

my goals are MAINLY PvP based, I love it, i enjoy it, but I also wanted viability in PvE.

I decided to roll Shamans not based on the FOTM (because i didnt even know it was the FOTM at the time haha) but because the numbers added up.

I looked at 5 boomkins first, and they are still 3rd on my list of things to roll. but they get fear OWND, and im not confident that they would have the burst dmg like shamans do, as well as no grounding totems, and no heroism.

I looked at warlocks and a shadow priest, because i love those 2 classes and they would be a LOT more viable in PvE due to stacking debuffs and a great combination. Way too squishy in PvP was the concensus in my head at the time.

then i looked at Shamans... and they have everything you could want.

Heroism is pure gold in both PvP and PvE... gold..

Stacking wrath totems makes PvE a joke, with crap gear my guys have over 50% chance to crit with LB / CL

ankh.. GOLD in PvE.. absolutly fantastic, i HATE wiping and running back in instances, and in "o shit" sits, you can ankh and often save a wipe.

res.

i have lvld hunters and warlocks so far to lvl 30~ and the ability to res with all chars is very useful, wiping in stocks and running back SUCKS, same with most instances lol.

truth is, Shamans just did everything I wanted. i tried others, and I am currently working on my Warlocks, but Shamans were my first and really are worth their weight in gold.

on my server in BG or in Kara / Gruul / SSc etc, they call me The Deathstar.

plain and simple =)

so while Ellay and others may have contributed to placing ideas in my head, i for one did weigh the options, as well as test out others.

Im convinced druids are going to be the next big thing. 5v5 BG with 5 SM Boomkins is gonna be halarious for YouTube =)

cant wait =)

First... almost no one here is original. In fact, if you started multi-boxing with WoW, then chances are there was someone else who inspired you, mentored you, or served as an example for you to follow. I hope that they treated you with respect.

Second... no one likes to be belittled, talked down to, or accused of being copycats...

Third... There are a limited number of classes available for any group make up. Even fewer classes that can fill specific roles you might require. It seems natural to me that many people would come up with groups that seem to mimic previous groups. Just like there is a limited amount of gear available to people and some how everyone ends up in the same gear.

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Originally Posted by 'Doubleo7',index.php?page=Thread&postID=36020#post 36020

First... almost no one here is original. In fact, if you started multi-boxing with WoW, then chances are there was someone else who inspired you, mentored you, or served as an example for you to follow. I hope that they treated you with respect.

Second... no one likes to be belittled, talked down to, or accused of being copycats...

Third... There are a limited number of classes available for any group make up. Even fewer classes that can fill specific roles you might require. It seems natural to me that many people would come up with groups that seem to mimic previous groups. Just like there is a limited amount of gear available to people and some how everyone ends up in the same gear.

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Nicely put.

Honestly quite a large number of people have seen Ellay's or Xbox or the Mote's videos and think "OMG I WANTZ TO MELT T3H FACEZORS" and they instantly run a 4/5 shammy group. HOWEVER, I'd be willing to bet the the majority (>70%) of people on these boards have at least done some research into potential groups.

The vast majority of posts regarding classes I'm seeing now all revolve around people trying to decide what is best for their needs when they really haven't decided what their goals are. I think we should make a sticky entitled something along the lines of "How to: The perfect class setup". And just give the pros and cons to multiboxing each class, but really stress the fact that you need to choose PvE or PvP, as there really isn't one group that will dominate everything.

Also there really has been a lot of flaming going on recently, whatever happened to the good ole' days when Wilbur was the "Angry" one?

Vyndree, I'd take an advanced copy...but you might want to remove the phone number too . :P

Anyways... just my observations, you don't like them... piss off? :whistling:

I'm still the angry one...

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Originally Posted by 'Wilbur',index.php?page=Thread&postID=36040#post36 040

I'm still the angry one...

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...that British flag is very intimidating... Hannibal has nothing on that... :P

Also it seems like you've toned down a bit recently. Maybe we need to get everyone to roll boomkins, that could get you back on track. :D

When I first learned of this site, one of the very first posts I read was written by Xzin: Multiboxing Wiki - My 5 (Now 10!) Boxing WoW Writeup

I recommend that post to be read thoroughly by anyone looking for answers to question(s) they have. It contains quite a bit of valuable information, and as such is stickied.

It seems that this community is just experiencing some growing pains with a large freshman class (newcomers). Let's try to keep things in perspective and keep this community a friendly and welcome place for everyone to share our common hobby of boxing. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by 'Sanctume',index.php?page=Thread&postID=35864#post 35864

But when it comes to heroic, a fresh paladin geared with quest items and random blues will most likely not last versus heroic trash without good heals, and good dps. That's verus 1 trash heroic mob. What are you going to do with the other 2 or 3 mobs in a pull?

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Actually with VERY few exceptions I found that mage (dps) survivability tended to be the limiting reagent in heroics. My paladin in fresh quest blues and some regular dugeon drops had no problems tanking. I had no problems healing the paladin with holydin as long as it was just him (no AoE) even though I only had like 1100-1200 +heal. That includes multi tanking. An exception to these are the two defender pull in hero SL and two boglord pull in UB. The solution (with tankadin+holydin) is to use the two stuns (one after the other) and burn one mob down quick (one stunned, one tanked).

Ziran