Yea... i'm thinking about joining a raiding group with my multi boxers when they are 70 and just want to see how long it might take to get enough dkp for twin blades for my rogue.
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Yea... i'm thinking about joining a raiding group with my multi boxers when they are 70 and just want to see how long it might take to get enough dkp for twin blades for my rogue.
it depends for every guild, they all give different amounts for different things. And twin blades will take you A LONG time. I would guess you wouldn't be able to get them by the time WotLK comes out. And most top raiding guilds would not let one person play more than one character on a boss fight like illidan.
Dkp works like this you get a butt ton of it while farming raids that you don't need any more. Then when your guild moves on to new content you get first pick at new loots. Then new members get mad that you get gear before them. Then old members get mad they are still doing raids that they don't need gear from. I raided for 5 months stopped raiding for like 3 months got back into a raid and still had top dkp. Raiding is fun but can get old once you have a hiccup. I remember we were doing one shotting hydross for like 6 weeks straight then we spent a whole night whipping on him.
Also I would say stay away from guilds that have Main Tank priority. I was a tank (mind you not a main tank) and had to horde my dkp to keep up with the other tanks gear wise. Main Tank priority allows the main tanks to pick up alot of free loot. Both of our warrior tanks were pretty geared and then both decided to leave in the same week. That almost killed the whole guild.
/stoprant
that sucks manQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Schwarz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=34490#post3 4490
DKP stands for dragon kill points. The name is leftover from the times when dragons were the end game bosses, now it applies to any raid level encounters.
Each guild has it's own way of earning and spending the points but basically you gets points for raid attendance and sometimes donating mats or consumables to the guild. You build up points, something drops you want, you spend the points which usually sends you back to the bottom of the list and you start all over.
Basically DKP came about to make sure the regular raiders get geared up first instead of having someone that has ran a raid 30 times get out rolled by some guy that it's his first time in the instance. It's a system for normalizing loot distribution. You don't want that super rare item that your main tank needs going to some guy that raids once a month because he go a lucky roll.
As far as joining a raiding guild for the purpose of gearing up it probably won't work out the way you are thinking. Generally you won't be boxing in raids unless you have put in the time with the guild(or they are mad desperate). You won't just jump into a quality raiding guild with your leveling gear and no raid experience. Your best bet is to look for a friendly guild that does casual raiding and make some friends.
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DKP can be anything to any guild. Research the guild through talking to it's members or through their website.
My guild uses a DKP percentage based system w/ a cap of 1000 points. Basically whoever has the most DKP has dibs on loot but loses 50% of their acquired DKP. It gives new / more casual raiders more of a chance to get something since they don't have to take ages to catch up. Right now all of our setups are set to where one raid instance cleared = 100 DKP. So Kara bosses are worth 10 each (Chess doesn't count, not really a boss fight there :P ), Gruul is worth 60 & HKM is worth 40, you get the idea. If a raider attends a full ZA, Kara, and some 25-man clears in a week they'll be pretty high in DKP from just that.
We raid with an allied guild that does DKP a bit diffrently, they use a bidding and /roll based on the bids. I'm not too sure on the specifics but it works out for them and our guilds have made good progress in 25-mans.
wowwiki has a good writeup of dkp
http://www.wowwiki.com/Dkp
I got spoiled, the only guild I tried raiding with had two loot rules. Master loot all bosses, so there's never a mistake or ninja. and If you can use it, you can roll on it. Which at the time and my noobishness, I wouldn't have been able to roll on gorefiend as a hunter, as str isn't a primary stat. After it's farm status if you want something, better to have happy guildmates than a bank of enchant mats, and it was pretty loose. This way any pug that we needed had as good a chance as a regular attendee. Hey, everyone worked to clear it, everyone earned a shot at the loot. They decided if you needed to whine about 30 runs and not getting a drop and then losing it when it did drop, you probably didn't fit with the guild. And, while it was new to me, I really came to like it, and for a while I was MT'ing ZG. Whether I got the upgrade or another war/class, it made next raid a little bit easier.
That style is my personal favorite, but really begins to break down in less tight knit guilds, or guilds that are larger. I pretty much quit raiding all togeather because of the DKP/LOOT/SHINY Drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Atorifan',index.php?page=Thread&postID=34523#post 34523
I started wow right after it went LIve, was among the first wave of people trying for 60. I ran with some close friends,,, one day a nice epic world drop for that time frame, came up while a hunter friend & I were questing togeather. Without a second thought , my hunter friend opened trade & gave it to me. Great guy who had a solid head about loot & fairness.. he ended up quitting the game over DKP related things in a guild we joined later on.
I quit raiding & now PVP for my gear.
Guildmembers get DKP for attendence when a raid starts and ends, in some cases even if a guildmember didn't fit in the raid but are online doing something else he gets dkp, when a boss dies everyone in the raid gets DKP, new boss kills can grant a bonus dkp sum, erratic behaviour can lead to minus dkp.
Something like that.
Then when a boss drops something needers are asked to whisper the loot/dkp overseer and the person with the most DKP gets the item.
Myself find a system without DKP where loot is given to the person that needs it the most gets it if they have a 75~% presence on raids, aka are an active raider, the best, and MainTank should also be the GM ideally since then it's not as easy for him to "lamexit", this is the case in my lvl70s guild where GM=MT but It was kinda stupid when a shaman got a new shield in ZA and a few minutes later we wiped cause the new palla tank had too much crap gear, including a shield with around 2k less armor than the one the shaman won roll on (the guild only use dkp in 25mans.)
Excuse my grammar etc.
Quix, you have great friends, cherish them :-D
No matter how you deal with the loot:
1. People will complain
2. People will find its 'unfair'
3. GIEF EPX PLX
Allthough after a few years, i can say the dkp bidding sucks, the rolling sucks even more, and loot on need base (he needs it more, he gets it) doesnt work at all since people dont see the bigger picture.
O well
Indeed, looting will never be fair to everyone - even if its a 5 man and your controlling them all !
Keep in mind that DKP systems can vary greatly. The simplest premise is that you get points for raid attendance, and you can spend those points on loot drops. But DKP systems are extremely customizable, from the manner in which points are gained to the methods for spending them, and whatever limitations can be placed on them.
A well-designed DKP system can eliminate many of the flaws/complaints against them. But any loot system will have its detractors. Officer assigned loot systems have to deal with accusations of favoritism/cronyism. Random roll systems can be very unfair (the old "player_A attended raids for weeks but player_B gets superEpic-01 on his first raid"). Need/Greed systems deal with accusations of lying or otherwise gaming the system (swapping in inferior loot to get a drop). Because DKP is so customizable, there is an endless number of ways for people to be unhappy with it. And poorly designed or managed DKP systems are a recipe for disaster.
Find some friends and build a guild of your own, then loot isn't much of a problem. That's what I did, anyway. :)
This is why I stay in Dark Angels and have turned down offers from higher-progressed guilds like Dark Council and the like...the majority of us are tight-knit DA that've been there for awhile(3years myself, from MC Raid #1), so other than a few minor rules(Main-specs get priority, Main chars get priority if alts are present and i'ts an UPgrade, not a SIDEgrade), we go by the same 2 rules mentioned earlier: Master Loot Bosses and Roll if you need and will use it. It's worked out well so far except for one recruited lock who took a ton of loot without thought for others, pissed off half the guild then jumped ship at first opportunity with half our 25man loot. But other than that it's worked well, everyone is geared up fairly well to the point that it comes down to people actually paying a-fucking-ttention(which has been less than common till last night's First Hydross kill)
I agree giving tanks priority is a bad thing..but at the same time it's necessary to survive half the fights. If the tank dies everyone else's gear means jack shit lol; we had 2 tanks we prioritized gearwise; one quit tanking and is now a Huntard with a Priest alt and refuses to tank, the other left guild when we yelled at him for changing our strategy for Lurker for no fucking good reason at all, and purposely putting the Offtank not only out of range of his healers but smack fucking dab in the middle of the melee dps, getting them cleaved and destroyed in the process. Kinda went off on a rant there but it's technically still related to the convo :p
In summary, my opinion is that DKP fucking sucks and none of the system variants, be it classic DKP, zero-sum, or suicide kings etc, are worth the trouble if you can muster up half a fucking brain cell and some fairness in distribution. Yeah, people're gonna get boned on a few drops, each boss only drops so many items and may end up dropping an item 20 people want maybe once, get the fuck over it and find something else :p
Related funny story: I waited 8 months for Prince to drop his goddamn dagger, never missed a single fucking Kara raid despite being in 25man gear. It never dropped. ZA comes out. Eagle boss drops very nice 1h caster mace, I win it. THE VERY NEXT GODDAMN PRINCE WE KILL DROPS HIS GODDAMN DAGGER. I was a very sad, very pissed Boomkin. lol