Why do you play 5s/5v5?

Ok I know I am probably going to get my head ripped off for this, however, I am curious.

What is the draw in playing 5 characters in pvp? I believe I know the all the pro/cons but maybe I am missing something.

I understand the draw of playing the same amount of characters for pve/heroics and pvp combined. Is that the only draw? I have boxed 5 characters for a while(about a year) so I know a little bout it and found over time it was not for me.

Now for pve, I leave that to the more advanced people here its just not my thing anymore. I am burned out of raiding, never again. I did 1 10 man solo in all of woltk not including VoA.

In pvp, for me I really see no difference in how fast I kill would kill a sinlge target between boxing 2 dps or 4. I dont know how boxing 5 characters over 2 could be more challenging other than all the grunt work of making macros/prof/buttons etc for 5 characters over 2. I guess one could make the argument of facing 5 enemy players instead of 2/3, so is that the challenge everyone plays 5 characters in pvp for?

I am really looking for some perspective.

3v3 can't be zerged really by a boxer, there needs to be SOME control.

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Originally Posted by Shodokan

3v3 can't be zerged really by a boxer, there needs to be SOME control.

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I tunnel like no tomorrow only using my interrupts/non facing cc and healer partner helps with cc in 3s and do just fine.

Psychologically:
5's are like the heavyweight division. The top 100lb and 150lb fighters wouldn't fair well vs. the top 250lb fighters and the same goes for arenas. We all want to have the maximum amount of power possible when we push a key - that's why some even continue to play or plan to play 30+ chars despite the raid cap being 25 on all the new content.

Also when you stomp another team in 5's with 5 characters of the same name they're forced to deal with the reality of what happened. In 2's or 3's they could just assume it's a couple friends who thought it would be funny to have matching names

Technically:
5's also cross into a threshold where you have the potential to gain a coordination advantage over a 5's team with 5 human players when it comes to avoiding overlapping cooldowns due to the amount of vent chatter required for a 5's team to fully coordinate that. In reality we probably never actually get this advantage since the best teams will use every addon possible to help track the cooldowns of both their teammates and enemies to avoid wasted cooldowns or diminishing returns even more than we can, but at least in 5's there's that slim chance. In 2's and 3's it seems the best teams pretty much already know what the exact gameplan is vs. each comp they are likely to face. Then there's the more obvious coordinated burst advantage, the more the better when it comes to that.

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Originally Posted by Kromtor

Psychologically:
5's are like the heavyweight division. The top 100lb and 150lb fighters wouldn't fair well vs. the top 250lb fighters and the same goes for arenas. We all want to have the maximum amount of power possible when we push a key - that's why some even continue to play or plan to play 30+ chars despite the raid cap being 25 on all the new content.

Also when you stomp another team in 5's with 5 characters of the same name they're forced to deal with the reality of what happened. In 2's or 3's they could just assume it's a couple friends who thought it would be funny to have matching names

Technically:
5's also cross into a threshold where you have the potential to gain a coordination advantage over a 5's team with 5 human players when it comes to avoiding overlapping cooldowns due to the amount of vent chatter required for a 5's team to fully coordinate that. In reality we probably never actually get this advantage since the best teams will use every addon possible to help track the cooldowns of both their teammates and enemies to avoid wasted cooldowns or diminishing returns even more than we can, but at least in 5's there's that slim chance. In 2's and 3's it seems the best teams pretty much already know what the exact gameplan is vs. each comp they are likely to face. Then there's the more obvious coordinated burst advantage, the more the better when it comes to that.

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Good Stuff.

Thanks for taking the time to write that out. Explains a bit about the psychology which I think was the issue I am having trouble understanding.

In order to gear up a 5box team in pvp gear, it's a matter of how much time you put into it. Me personally, I'd rather put in my 5 wins once, rather than for each individual toon. For 5s, it's all about coordinating burst, and with equal gear, most matches can be quickly turned into a 5 vs 4 in the first few seconds of battle. At the moment, I'm not going for any serious ratings, but rather the minimum to get my weekly points in. The first few weeks were very rough where I think it took me something close to 30 games to get my 5 wins, but now that they are starting to get some gear, they are finally able to somewhat compete. With 2k resilience, I need another 1000 to be more competitive.

As far as the other brackets go, 2s is more or less about what makeup you run vs what you get matched up against. It's a lot more like rock, paper, scissors - for example, in S4, you had warrior/druid at the top - that comp could beat just about every other comp when played right. Only a few comps could reliably beat it - hunter/druid being one of them, but that comp wasn't as strong vs other setups. So to me, 2s is always going to be a fun bracket as you'll see a ton of different comps, and with practice, just about any comp can work and get a decent rating. I'm currently playing that with my DK and my daughter playing a feral druid ATM. Nothing serious, but I'm sure 1800-2k is well within grasp.

When I used to play solo, 3s was the most competitive bracket. While most teams played the traditional RMP combo, we were doing RLP, and as Kromtor pointed out, it's the experience that tells you as soon as the gates open, we already knew the gameplan in 95% of the matches. When CCs are executed and coordinated properly, it's a lot harder to lose.

So to me, the appeal is get my 5 wins in weekly for the quick easy epics that way I can play all my other toons. Sadly, I've done probably less than 10 BGs total between both my shammys and Dk/Rets since hitting 85 as I'm burned out on the grind.

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Originally Posted by Zappy

In order to gear up a 5box team in pvp gear, it's a matter of how much time you put into it. Me personally, I'd rather put in my 5 wins once, rather than for each individual toon. For 5s, it's all about coordinating burst, and with equal gear, most matches can be quickly turned into a 5 vs 4 in the first few seconds of battle. At the moment, I'm not going for any serious ratings, but rather the minimum to get my weekly points in. The first few weeks were very rough where I think it took me something close to 30 games to get my 5 wins, but now that they are starting to get some gear, they are finally able to somewhat compete. With 2k resilience, I need another 1000 to be more competitive.

As far as the other brackets go, 2s is more or less about what makeup you run vs what you get matched up against. It's a lot more like rock, paper, scissors - for example, in S4, you had warrior/druid at the top - that comp could beat just about every other comp when played right. Only a few comps could reliably beat it - hunter/druid being one of them, but that comp wasn't as strong vs other setups. So to me, 2s is always going to be a fun bracket as you'll see a ton of different comps, and with practice, just about any comp can work and get a decent rating. I'm currently playing that with my DK and my daughter playing a feral druid ATM. Nothing serious, but I'm sure 1800-2k is well within grasp.

When I used to play solo, 3s was the most competitive bracket. While most teams played the traditional RMP combo, we were doing RLP, and as Kromtor pointed out, it's the experience that tells you as soon as the gates open, we already knew the gameplan in 95% of the matches. When CCs are executed and coordinated properly, it's a lot harder to lose.

So to me, the appeal is get my 5 wins in weekly for the quick easy epics that way I can play all my other toons. Sadly, I've done probably less than 10 BGs total between both my shammys and Dk/Rets since hitting 85 as I'm burned out on the grind.

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So my understanding is, correct if I am wrong. 2s/3s solo(non Boxed) are easy if CC is coordinated properly, but boxing 5s is harder or more of a challenge because its coordinated zerg or are you saying you are getting your wins in 5s because its the easiest way to gear up? But then why 5. Is it the challenge of playing 5 characters or is it the wtfpwn 1 enemy at a time or is the challenge in playing 5 characters while wtfpwning 1 enemy at a time. Because 2 dps can wtfpwn 1 enemy almost as fast as 4. Is the only reason 4>1 vs 2>1 ?

If you can gear up your characters doing 2s why play 5s with all the same classes. What is the benefit? I see that you do pve heroics etc. so I know that is a major pro of playing 5 characters. I am trying to understand the rational of why 5 characters are better or more of a challenge than 2 if you dont pve. Given the same number of players.

And thank you for taking the time to post and write that out. Much appreciated.

I'm talking specifically to gear up a team. I have 2 sets of 85s, with a close 3rd coming up. I don't want to be playing them individually as that'll take 25 wins/week to get the conquest cap. Now I haven't tried boxing 2s or 3s, so maybe it's just as easy to win in 2s or 3s.

In 5s, the challenge is to wtfpwn 1 enemy before they've blown all defensive CDs and you start getting fearbombed left and right. The pace of 2s and 3s is a lot slower than 5s. In most 5s matches, someone dies in the first 5-10 seconds of every battle due to either a successful zerg or successful CCs.

But again, i'm not sure i'm answering your question. I do 5s right now strictly for the conquest gear. the arena system is such a joke in 5s these days, that I don't find the enjoyment from it, so I'd rather get my conquest points as quick as possible.

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Originally Posted by Zappy

But again, i'm not sure i'm answering your question. I do 5s right now strictly for the conquest gear. the arena system is such a joke in 5s these days, that I don't find the enjoyment from it, so I'd rather get my conquest points as quick as possible.

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If you didnt pve would you still pvp with 5? If you didnt pve what are the benefits of boxing pvp 1 dk+ 4rets(5v5) over boxing 1 dk + 1 ret (2v2) for example. Also for argument sake I have killed shamans/priests and locks in the first 10 sec of combat before in 2s.

I am guessing that most 5v5 players pvp because they enjoy doing pve as well and playing 5 characters seems to make the most sense.

Are there any 4/5 boxers out there that just pvp?

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

I tunnel like no tomorrow only using my interrupts/non facing cc and healer partner helps with cc in 3s and do just fine.

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I did not know this was true. If I knew, 3s would be my game too. Fat, were you playing all 3 ? or just 2 with a player controlled healer.

I think most people did not know this (3 box, 2 box) would work well. If you can show us something, we'd switched. You'd be surprised how much a video can inspire people, hint hint *.

multiboxing is fun. Seeing 5 toons co-ordinated is just as much fun as 2 or 3 imo. You can do well in ANY bracket provided you play well... the draw/+ of multiboxing more ie 5 is that more coordination = better results... at least that's been MY personal experience. I've done the 2 and 3's thing before... you just don't have enough of a BOOM to murder someone properly in today's pvp world.

I'm more of a pve person myself and have loved the fact that i could farm dungeons for rep/items/pride that i did glory of the hero completely solo in wotlk. I also solo raided and 3-5 raided with my toons in wotlk to some success. The ability to control most of the group, as well as do competitive dmg was enthralling, and NOT having to deal with the TERRIBLE pug /lfg system scrubs that seemed so rampant and still do to this day was a HUGE bonus on the pve side.

PvP + PvE = 5 toons. Pve because bad pugs are bad, pvp because .... well why the hell not you DO have 5 accounts right? lol use them or its a waste of cash imo

PvP strictly = I could see myself NOT re-upgrading all my 5 accounts and going with 2 or 3, however pve is a means to an end for pvp. You can gear up one way and then use that way to help gear up another... more = more options imo. Ie your pvp toons can be all engineer /jc (or whatever is best for pvp profession wise) and another team can be for gathering and crafting.


TLDR: less could be good, but most of us find the draw in 5 toons because we like all aspects of the game in that regard. There's no doubt you can be successful playing less, but most players enjoy just playing more than 2 toons...

tell me, do you like mac and cheese? lol if yes.... WHY do you like mac and cheese? - because its delicious... simple question simple answer ! haha

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Originally Posted by remanz

I did not know this was true. If I knew, 3s would be my game too. Fat, were you playing all 3 ? or just 2 with a player controlled healer.

I think most people did not know this (3 box, 2 box) would work well. If you can show us something, we'd switched. You'd be surprised how much a video can inspire people, hint hint *.

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I have only talked about it for the past year in my posts off and on. I box 2s and I box the same in 3s with a healer friend. I use a variety of tunneling classes, no casters. Playing all 3 in 3s is just too much for me and I found my boxing niche it looks like within the community only playing only 2.

I frapsed when I played on sunday night, but I still need to edit out the faceroll games and keep the quality opponents and find some music.

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Originally Posted by ghonosyph

multiboxing is fun. Seeing 5 toons co-ordinated is just as much fun as 2 or 3 imo. You can do well in ANY bracket provided you play well... the draw/+ of multiboxing more ie 5 is that more coordination = better results... at least that's been MY personal experience. I've done the 2 and 3's thing before... you just don't have enough of a BOOM to murder someone properly in today's pvp world.

I'm more of a pve person myself and have loved the fact that i could farm dungeons for rep/items/pride that i did glory of the hero completely solo in wotlk. I also solo raided and 3-5 raided with my toons in wotlk to some success. The ability to control most of the group, as well as do competitive dmg was enthralling, and NOT having to deal with the TERRIBLE pug /lfg system scrubs that seemed so rampant and still do to this day was a HUGE bonus on the pve side.

PvP + PvE = 5 toons. Pve because bad pugs are bad, pvp because .... well why the hell not you DO have 5 accounts right? lol use them or its a waste of cash imo

PvP strictly = I could see myself NOT re-upgrading all my 5 accounts and going with 2 or 3, however pve is a means to an end for pvp. You can gear up one way and then use that way to help gear up another... more = more options imo. Ie your pvp toons can be all engineer /jc (or whatever is best for pvp profession wise) and another team can be for gathering and crafting.


TLDR: less could be good, but most of us find the draw in 5 toons because we like all aspects of the game in that regard. There's no doubt you can be successful playing less, but most players enjoy just playing more than 2 toons...

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Thanks ghonosyph, nice post minus the cheesy part.:D

it must be said... I LIKE CHEESE!!! MMMM CHEESE... lol im from wisconsin.... can you tell? but you did get my point with the whole mac and cheese thing right? lol

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Originally Posted by ghonosyph

it must be said... I LIKE CHEESE!!! MMMM CHEESE... lol im from wisconsin.... can you tell? but you did get my point with the whole mac and cheese thing right? lol

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Nope. I think that is a fail analogy but I appreciate the flavor. If I may take a spoon to your mac and cheese analogy. Most people like eating mac and cheese, but some need to use a larger spoon to eat their bowl of mac. However, any spoon achieves the same result if you are only hungry for mac and cheese. The mac and cheese itself doesnt care what kind of spoon is used to eat it, but to the person it apparently matters as that is the only way they can eat their mac.

Also this makes sense in my head, however I will understand if no one else gets it.

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

Are there any 4/5 boxers out there that just pvp?

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I'm boxing my 4 shamans since 3+years now and sometimes I need a break of pvp and do some pve achievement shit like farming the heroic achievements. I think I was one of the first quad shaman boxer in cataclysm who got a heroic clear (pally tank played by my brother) because I'm not afraid of wiping 6+ hours at the same encounter to get a boss kill, but its much more harder if you play the tank too.

Anyway while an arena season I'm doing rarely pve but ... sometimes people suck so hard at pvp that I have to do pve ;)

I play 5's, because that is the correct number for a full group (PvE).
Which means I am not reliant upon anyone else, and can run whatever I like and whenever I want.
My focus is not PvE this expansion, but it has been for both BC and WotLK.

In PvP, 5 is a decent number...
Given that I've already got five upgraded accounts, and my teams are in sets of five.
Four accounts, would have similar power in battlegrounds which is my focus at the moment.
But not going to only use four of the five accounts.

And there is the possibility of switching the focus to PvE.
Or maybe just running a bit of both aspects of the game.

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

I am guessing that most 5v5 players pvp because they enjoy doing pve as well and playing 5 characters seems to make the most sense.

Are there any 4/5 boxers out there that just pvp?

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Yea mate, all I do is pvp with my 4 shammies. And old school raids when I'm bored. I'm not all into the cutting edge strats for the new heroics lol.

BUT, I'm a special pvper, I only like BGs and world pvp. I only do 5v5 for my weekly min wins for the gear. It used to be just the 10 matches which I would just lose on purpose more often than not. But now I have to win 5 games, which is kinda hard atm due to me being in crap gear, and there being only 1-2 other teams queuing up and way outgearing me.

I wish we could get more conquest points from just random BGs for the best pvp gear. But I find out I have to do rated BGs, so now I have to find a group which will let a boxer in, gg. Maybe once my guild gets some more members.

More than anything, I'm after 4x battlemaster on my shammies. It's a long term goal as my playtime is a few days every 3 weeks, but I'm slowly getting there, done AV, AB, eots and most of sota so far :P

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

I am guessing that most 5v5 players pvp because they enjoy doing pve as well and playing 5 characters seems to make the most sense.

Are there any 4/5 boxers out there that just pvp?

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The reason i play 4 and will always play 4 in pvp is that 4 + healer is so much stronger then 5. Only the fact that you can split up, tell you healer to defend and zerg another base or whatnot.

A few months before cata was released i was kinda done with my shams. I wasn't bothered to gear them up for PVE, so I only did HC's pretty much. When this happened I made a new pve team on my old server, having lots of fun there, mainly playing toons single. Leveled them as a team to 84, then i farmed Vortex Pinnacle for the Volatile airs but that was pretty much it. Solo playing ftw with the cata movement bosses.

I appreciate all the responses.

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