Why do I not see many of you guys with a warrior ??

I've been boxing ( hardware boxer ) groups since EQ over ten years ago

But I have a grand total of maybe 4 hours playing WoW

I've been reading a lot of you guys group makeups and can't seem to figure out why WoW seems to require you guys to use Hybird tanks instead of a warrior for a tank in your groups ... Most of you seem to be using a pally

Why do warriors not make the best tanks in WoW?

Or do they make best tanks but just easier to box with a hybrid tank?

I've just pulled the trigger on 4 battle chests after playing a worgen warrior through level 14 and loved it

So I'll be making a 5 toon group to box but just noticed none of you I can see box a warrior as your tank and I'm sure there is a reason I'm missing for that if someone could explain


I kinda am digging this warrior I made but don't want to get to max level with a team and realize I am gimped and needto roll a new tank

It might be different now, but pre cataclysm the reason most boxers chose a paladin for tanking was the ease of AOE agro. You could and still can make a single macro for a paladin that will rotate all of their spells on each button. This made it easy for boxers to focus on the healing and dps buttons for the rest of the group. So it didn't matter what you were spamming, the tank was always wailing away doing their job.

You don't have to manage a paladin tank. They are on auto pilot.

Other minor reasons are paladin tanks are front loaded on agro because they can mana dump on a pull. Warriors were back end loaded on agro. They had to charge in, build up rage etc before they got going.

I run a warrior tank with 4 shaman... I've been doing it for so long that I really haven't bothered switching to anything else.

Seems I hold aggro a bit better in Cataclysm. Charge/rend/thunderclap seems to survive through 2-3 chain lightnings.

It probably has something to do with the fact that they suck, lol.

I was always a big Paladin guy, but recently made the switch to DK tanks. I've also dabbled with Druid tanks. I was never impressed with Warriors overall, and the warriors I grouped with before I started boxing sucked ass, so it made it an easy choice for me.

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Originally Posted by Kalros

It probably has something to do with the fact that they suck, lol.

I was always a big Paladin guy, but recently made the switch to DK tanks. I've also dabbled with Druid tanks. I was never impressed with Warriors overall, and the warriors I grouped with before I started boxing sucked ass, so it made it an easy choice for me.

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well that sound airtight case against playing a warrior has swayed me from nit playing a warrior :p

lol

was looking for more specifics like the first reply

Makes me wonder what the point of wow having warriors is if they are not better tanks than hybrid classes are

I think it's a combination of several factors -
Previously paladin tanks had easy mode AoE threat as mentioned
Buffing synergy was higher between sham/pal then sham/war for a very long time
It seems that it wasn't until a while into Cataclysm that Bear (druid) tanks started to get some of the tools they were missing

If you're liking the warrior stick with it for now, he'll tank just fine down the road. Keep in mind that you can also always start up a DK and catch him up from 60 (or join your team at 60) if the warrior doesn't work out.

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Originally Posted by Trushot

Makes me wonder what the point of wow having warriors is if they are not better tanks than hybrid classes are

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Because people were sick of that mentality. Warriors are the only real tanks, priests are the only real healers, mages are the only real caster dps.... That died with Vanilla and for good reason. No one wants to play a game where you can't do things without the "proper" setup.

It's bad enough when no one wants to play tanks or healers. When someone actually did pick up a tank or healer that wasn't a pure class, no one would ever let them actually run as a tank or healer, only as support. Here is an honest to god, everyday situation my husband and I would have in Vanilla -

RandomDPS - LFG STRAT!!
Husband {tankadin} - We'll go
RandomDPS - LF2M STRAT! Need tank and heals!
Me {resto druid} - Um....we ARE tank and heals.
RandomDPS - ROFL!! Right!
You have been removed from the group.
RandomDPS - LFG Strat!

This is a game of min-max and Blizzard has spent a lot of time and effort to get away from the old mindset of "in a pinch, you can use hybrids to..." There is no longer "Pure" or "Hybrid" classes. There's just specs.

A warrior has a lot of reactionary moves; the mob dodges one of your attacks and you can (forget the name) which auto hits for some damage.
If you dodge, parry or block an attack, you can do another type of move, which is beneficial to use at every opportunity.

You have abilities which can only be used in one stance or another.
If you're willing to stance dance, which many warriors are not willing to do...
Well having a lot of tools is very nice.

Balance that against a tank with a fixed rotation, and limited "proc" abilities.
I can mash a single button for a Druid, Paladin or Death Knight, and get up to 75-80% efficiency compared to one-boxing the same class.
With the one-button mashing of a Warrior, I'm at 50-60% efficiency.

You can drive with any tank very well.
As the main toon, they all work so it is a preference call.
Still, closer to maximum efficiency, without needing to think allows you to concentrate on other things.



As a tank, I like the:

DK because of Death Grip, and the extra healing from Rune Tap and/or Death Strike. Path of Frost is very nice utility in a lot of battlegrounds. Also very high DPS in relation to other tanks is a bonus.

Pally because of the choice of buffs (Stats vs Attack Power & Mana Regen), an aura of choice such as Resistances, extra Armor or increased Mount speed. This class can Rez or Divine Intervention (save from a wipe) another Rez capable class. The immunities or redirecting damage to the Pally is a bonus. Fairly easy to macro (1 button spam) and decent AoE, although that seems less now than in previous expansions. Can dual-spec to a strong healer too.

Druid because you're a full DPS spec and Tank spec in the same toon at once. Your DPS is very strong as a tank. Your toon can Cat Form for faster kills and Bear Form for survivability often bouncing between the two rapidly. The buff 5% stats is strong. Battle Rez, and normal rez are nice options. An all druid team rocks, and you can dual-spec to any other role. For non-mixed teams (ie, all Druids) I love instant flight form.

Warrior brings a fairly strong tank, but you need to manage a lot more things to be as effective. Your dual-spec, is pretty useless to a boxing team (as is the DK's, both dual-spec to damage only). Your buff (shout) is attack power or a bit of health, which isn't bad but not nearly as strong as the other tank options. If you were one-boxing a toon, as well as five-boxing this might be a very good choice.

I'm not against ya I'm with ya .... I think you misunderstood my intent of inquiry ...

The more I read the more it seems as if pallys are a way better choice for tanking than warriors

Paladins seem to be able to tank as well or better than warriors with pally aoe tanking

so with all the other cool stuff pallys can do in addition to aoe tanking better than warriors from what I'm reading j do not see a point to rolling a warrior in wow since it seems pallys tank just as well or better plus have all sorts of buffs and other useful things compared to warriors ... I'm trying to understand what the point of rolling a protection warrior is now when a pally just seems better I. Every way

am I kissing something or has blizzard relegated the warrior to nothing special and other classes can do it as we or better?

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Originally Posted by Khatovar

Because people were sick of that mentality. Warriors are the only real tanks, priests are the only real healers, mages are the only real caster dps.... That died with Vanilla and for good reason. No one wants to play a game where you can't do things without the "proper" setup.

It's bad enough when no one wants to play tanks or healers. When someone actually did pick up a tank or healer that wasn't a pure class, no one would ever let them actually run as a tank or healer, only as support. Here is an honest to god, everyday situation my husband and I would have in Vanilla -

RandomDPS - LFG STRAT!!
Husband {tankadin} - We'll go
RandomDPS - LF2M STRAT! Need tank and heals!
Me {resto druid} - Um....we ARE tank and heals.
RandomDPS - ROFL!! Right!
You have been removed from the group.
RandomDPS - LFG Strat!

This is a game of min-max and Blizzard has spent a lot of time and effort to get away from the old mindset of "in a pinch, you can use hybrids to..." There is no longer "Pure" or "Hybrid" classes. There's just specs.

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I think I've decided to roll a pally for tanking boxing team

But will continue to okay this warrior as a solo character ...
I'm on the road a lot with laptop and playing one toon only 3-4 months out of the year

after reading several hours on the net I understand how pally can be way better for boxing tank

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Originally Posted by Ualaa

A warrior has a lot of reactionary moves; the mob dodges one of your attacks and you can (forget the name) which auto hits for some damage.
If you dodge, parry or block an attack, you can do another type of move, which is beneficial to use at every opportunity.

You have abilities which can only be used in one stance or another.
If you're willing to stance dance, which many warriors are not willing to do...
Well having a lot of tools is very nice.

Balance that against a tank with a fixed rotation, and limited "proc" abilities.
I can mash a single button for a Druid, Paladin or Death Knight, and get up to 75-80% efficiency compared to one-boxing the same class.
With the one-button mashing of a Warrior, I'm at 50-60% efficiency.

You can drive with any tank very well.
As the main toon, they all work so it is a preference call.
Still, closer to maximum efficiency, without needing to think allows you to concentrate on other things.



As a tank, I like the:

DK because of Death Grip, and the extra healing from Rune Tap and/or Death Strike. Path of Frost is very nice utility in a lot of battlegrounds. Also very high DPS in relation to other tanks is a bonus.

Pally because of the choice of buffs (Stats vs Attack Power & Mana Regen), an aura of choice such as Resistances, extra Armor or increased Mount speed. This class can Rez or Divine Intervention (save from a wipe) another Rez capable class. The immunities or redirecting damage to the Pally is a bonus. Fairly easy to macro (1 button spam) and decent AoE, although that seems less now than in previous expansions. Can dual-spec to a strong healer too.

Druid because you're a full DPS spec and Tank spec in the same toon at once. Your DPS is very strong as a tank. Your toon can Cat Form for faster kills and Bear Form for survivability often bouncing between the two rapidly. The buff 5% stats is strong. Battle Rez, and normal rez are nice options. An all druid team rocks, and you can dual-spec to any other role. For non-mixed teams (ie, all Druids) I love instant flight form.

Warrior brings a fairly strong tank, but you need to manage a lot more things to be as effective. Your dual-spec, is pretty useless to a boxing team (as is the DK's, both dual-spec to damage only). Your buff (shout) is attack power or a bit of health, which isn't bad but not nearly as strong as the other tank options. If you were one-boxing a toon, as well as five-boxing this might be a very good choice.

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Originally Posted by Trushot

Paladins seem to be able to tank as well or better than warriors with pally aoe tanking

so with all the other cool stuff pallys can do in addition to aoe tanking better than warriors from what I'm reading j do not see a point to rolling a warrior in wow since it seems pallys tank just as well or better plus have all sorts of buffs and other useful things compared to warriors ... I'm trying to understand what the point of rolling a protection warrior is now when a pally just seems better

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The point is, there IS no "Better" anymore. All there is is different. Warriors can now AOE tank, in as much as there is AOE tanking anymore, as well as any other tank. Paladins can ST tank just as well as Warriors.

Single-player, any tank is as good as any other, the only thing that makes them "better" than another tank is personal preference.

For multi-boxing, all there is is ease of macroing. People are used to paladin tanks because that's what we've been using since forever, because we as multiboxers used to really need the AOE threat. Without the AOE threat that a paladin tank provided back in the day, there was a good chance adds would splat our squishies so fast that we may as well have pulled with them. That niche has been removed, now any tank can maintain AOE threat. So it's just down to what people prefer. Personally, I have no desire to reroll another team to bring up a warr tank, just like I had no desire to do it for a DK tank or a bear tank when that was all the rage here.

But with the way people are using multi-step macros, I don't see any reason that a warrior tank couldn't be played as effectively as any other tank choice. People do just fine using reaction-heavy DPS, and they don't even drive with them. Tank being the main screen allows much more flexibility to get in those things that you just can't macro or have to watch for.

khatovar beat me to it.

I've played a warrior MT for almost 5 years in WoW and I played a Cleric in EQ for almost 6. Through all that I've been boxing and when I started to heavily multibox in WoW, I went to pally tank because of its ease. I personally find warriors to be more entertaining to play solo, but for boxing, nothing really beats how easy it is to tank with a pally :P

*btw, my guild paladin tanks cried foul when I told them the reason I was using a pally tank for my teams. They though I was doing it because I finally realized that pally tanks were "better" pfft~ i say! :P

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Originally Posted by Crayonbox

khatovar beat me to it.

I've played a warrior MT for almost 5 years in WoW and I played a Cleric in EQ for almost 6. Through all that I've been boxing and when I started to heavily multibox in WoW, I went to pally tank because of its ease. I personally find warriors to be more entertaining to play solo, but for boxing, nothing really beats how easy it is to tank with a pally :P

*btw, my guild paladin tanks cried foul when I told them the reason I was using a pally tank for my teams. They though I was doing it because I finally realized that pally tanks were "better" pfft~ i say! :P

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Im glad u and khat replied

I think after reading for hours on end im seeing that pales are just easier to box as a tank it seems

But i a have had such a blast on this warrior so far I'm going to level him solo when I'm on the road with my laptop

And use a pally for tanking boxing team ... Although i may switch them back and forth to see how much mire demanding the reactive would be using a warrior ...


But don't the extra buffs you get from pally really give them an edge when choosing a tank as well ... Or am i reading to much into the pales buffs and spells they bring to table in addition to tanking

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Originally Posted by Trushot

But don't the extra buffs you get from pally really give them an edge when choosing a tank as well ... Or am i reading to much into the pales buffs and spells they bring to table in addition to tanking

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It really depends, you can't look at a single class individually in a mulitbox team. While a pally may have more buffs, buffs do not stack and may be redundant based on what the rest of your team brings to the table. Some buffs may be totally worthless for the majority of your team.

http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/

On a sidenote: technically speaking warriors are hybrids as well, they dps and they tank. Mages, locks, hunters & rogues are the only 'pure' classes.

I remember it being something like this..

Warrior tanking>> CC the skull then dps the cross, then take out the star and then finnish off the skull.

Palladin tanking>> ok first we pull this room then the next room.

I like a Pally because it is easy to manage, holds aggro good and a lot of other things. I have a lvl 80 pally team that are waiting for another pally team at 44 or so. I find I can solo some bosses (after team gets wiped from some horrific thing). They are survivors. Can't wait to get my lowbies leveled. Want to spec them all ret and level them in AV. 10 excorsisms? ouch.

slightly off topic, but does anyone play fury warrior? I solo levelled one last year to 70 and LOVED the 2 two-handed weapon (titan's grip) talent. It was proc heavy but with the 2-step, wondering if it's achieveable?

With Burning Crusade, paladin tanks became not only viable, but also prefered due to their synergy with casters, where they benefited from spell power and could provide mana buffs.

They've since balanced away from that, but they still maintain a a special spot in people's minds as a hit-it-and-forget-it tanking class.

Of course, this lead to further rebalancing of other classes, and at this point, Warrior is a very powerful tank I would rank up there with Paladins. They have plenty of AoE threat now, arguably better so due to thunderclap sharing rend and cleave being cleave.

I think the only reason you don't see more warrior tanks boxing is that people generally don't try new things in preference to the tried and true formulas. But Warrior tanks work and they work very well, so if that's what you want to run with, go for it.

I've used all 4 Tank classes in different group combinations. I lean towards Dks and Pallies. Bears and Warriors work fine, but i just don't like their playstyle.

You keep saying "team" as if you will have 5 toons. If thats true and youre doing the raf thing i would level all of them to 60: paladin, warrior, dk, druid.

Having just finished a bunch of raf teams, i found the paladin and warrior easy to tank with. The only problem i had with a warrior is starting a fight unprepared and without rage. A paladin can dump a bunch of threat right up front without worrying about rage.

While leveling to 60 i found the warriors to have plenty of aoe threat. Rend + Thunderclap is awesome for aoe threat generation. Also, at least up to 60 i think they have more 'rescue the dps' type tricks than a paladin.

I use two buttons with cast sequences on them. One for single target dps, the other for 2 or more mobs.

I would level em all while you can. Thats what i did and my plan post-60 is to use a different kind of tank for each team. Since 60 i personally have found paladins the easiest, then warriors, then dks. I still havent used a druid tank after 60 because it sucked so much earlier on. Eventually i will do it. You never know what patch is going to come out that will completely chnage how a class works. I remember shortly after wotlk came out, druids became amazing tanks. IMO, they suck now but mqybe they get a lot better again higher up in the levels. It seems blizzard stretched out all the talents and just moved them up the level range.
Ex: holy nova. Wasnt that like level 10 or 20 at one time? Now its 62 or something ridiculous. And prayer of mending, now its 70-something. In any event, back to the topic at hand - i will play the druid tank just to relearn it in case it ends up being good.

Any tank class that holds aggro for 2-3 seconds is good enough while leveling. Seriously, 3 seconds is more than long enough.

Looky here at my shiny shield while a crowd incinerates you in the blink of an eye!

One thing that makes a paly tank better for 5 man instances in cata is >> "Holy Wrath" glyphed it AE stuns undead,elementals and dragonkin..almost every instance has these type of mobs in cata. A lot of people switched to tauren palies due to higher base HPs and warstomp. I stayed with my BE paly due to AE silence. AE silence in combination with holy wrath has made tanking, for example, vortex pinnacle a breeze. I can round up those pesty caster elementals and then stun them all, by now i have more than enough agro and my dps can open up a can of whoopass with having to worry about agro at all.

Palies STILL win for tank boxing, hands down.

The reason, as mentioned a coupled of times, is mostly just historical. Paladins and druids have typically been very easy to tank to say 80% of their capacity with, where a warrior has required more interactivity to get that same level of threat generation.

I'm not sure where it stands now. Paladin tanking is more interactive, but still fairly simple if you don't need optimal agro generation (you don't). I havent' even leveled my war to 85 yet, but he still seems a little more needy to setup a basic rotation.

So I'm pretty sure it's mostly just because that's what we all have from the past

for what it's worth i was always a big fan of warrior tanking, though it takes a lot more concentration than a pally tank. however, i've had way more success with my DK tank than my warrior tank in this expansion, he needs a lot less healing. warriors might still be considered better for raid bosses with dedicated healing, but for trash the self healing blood DK and WoG prot pally can't be beat in cata. dont know enough about feral tanks to comment.

Warrior tank , not much to discuss. It is the worst tank overall right now.

No self healing, no abosrb shield. Warrior tank in our raid drains healers mana like crazy. It also walks slow (walk speed very important in a lot of encounters).

Warriors have a couple things that make them unique. If the encounter doesn't require them, warrior becomes the worst.

Disarm , Shield Reflect, Charge, Shockwave stun.

Currently, none of those are truly required for any encounter. So no warriors.

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Originally Posted by remanz

Warrior tank , not much to discuss. It is the worst tank overall right now.

No self healing,

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Enraged Regeneration, Gift of the Naaru for Draeneis.

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Originally Posted by remanz

no abosrb shield.

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Shield Wall, shield reflect, Last Stand, shield reflect or disarm to a certain extent.

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Originally Posted by remanz;311526no abosrb shield. [/QUOTE

It also walks slow (walk speed very important in a lot of encounters).

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True, but they have 2 charges on hostile targets and a charge on a friendly target (intervene).

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Originally Posted by remanz

Warriors have a couple things that make them unique. If the encounter doesn't require them, warrior becomes the worst.

Disarm , Shield Reflect, Charge, Shockwave stun.

Currently, none of those are truly required for any encounter. So no warriors.

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Well all these abilities can be used in all dungeons. There stands the difference between a good warrior and a bad one. In all packs of mobs, you should be able to at least reflect a few spells or silence a caster or disarm a melee. These abilities are just not very multiboxing friendly because they have to be used in reaction to something thus not really macroable in a single /castsequence

I used a Warrior tank throughout WoTLK, using a Blood DK tank this time around with the warrior as Fury DPS.