...For making it easy to decide on what *not* to have for a second team!
From mmo-champion:
Balance
- Solar Beam now affects targets within 5 yards, down from 10 yards.
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...For making it easy to decide on what *not* to have for a second team!
From mmo-champion:
Balance
- Solar Beam now affects targets within 5 yards, down from 10 yards.
Hm, I don't have a druid team, neither I've played a boomkin .. but why does it change so much for you?
Just curious :)
I can definitely see the PvP ramifications of this, not so much PvE
5yds is very, very easy to avoid. A couple steps and you've out ranged the effect.
This change reduces the area of effect by a factor of 4X... It's a bigger nerf than it seems at first.
but, but, it's a radius! come on, give us the REAL factor :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Boylston
Well, it was obvious boomkins needed a nerf. So i'm far from surprised.
It's still stupidly overpowered in combination with other druid abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boylston
Glyph of Entangling Roots - Reduces the cast time of your entangling roots by 100%.
Talent: Overgrowth - Your Entangling Roots have a 100% chance to root all enemies within 8 yards of the target.
Going to be a bit rough on boxers, but I'm still excited for my druid.
Instant cast roots on a caster, solar beam - can't use immunity abilities while silenced (non-caster excluded of course).
More importantly, a healer could not dispel said roots to get out of the solar beam.
it doesn't matter if 5y or 10y versus a boxer... if you stand together you are toast.
well more and more boxers quitting anyway.
Mosg ment that it's bad for us playing boomkins, since the spell got nerfed. Not that it's bad/good against boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by drevil
@Alemi:
I didn't realize there was a glyph that reduced the cast time of Root by 100%... That's beyond insane.
Um Boylston, maybe uh I might uh be doing Druids now hmm? Grumble maybe grumble grumble.
Well, the nice thing about the armor changes (if they work the way we think they will) is that it won't really matter what team you get to 85 first. If you pick the druids fist and they're gimpy, leveling shamans up won't put you at an enormous disadvantage, gear wise.
I still have big concerns that the Boomkin team doesn't have much burst and relies on a mechanic that I both don't use now and probably wouldn't use later. (Eclipse) Yes, it is easier to MB now, but it's not something I would want to do in BGs much.
Solar beam might be a problem for us, but we'll just have to see. I think I'll just know that it's dangerous and have a 4xFulmination ready to go for boomkins... :)
Yeah, boomkins are not seeing the "nerfbat" the way people are anticipating. I said this to someone yesterday, when you look at one change and fail to think how the pieces fall together, it can give a false impression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosg2
Starfall currently does damage to each individual in range + additional aoe damage to those around a target being hit. It was adjusted to remove that additional aoe component but range was greatly increased. Current talents in balance allow for repeated moonfire spam doing 135% damage + 90% mana reduction as long as you keep moving. Add in the fact that you get an additional 40% damage if you're in an eclipse (lunar or solar since moonfire will morph into sunfire). Instant cast roots (without a cd - but still subject to DR)...
If anything I see more of a nerf to resto with the lifebloom nerf, ToL change, and focus going to less mobility.
seems you're going to end up with 2 druids/ 3 shamies :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosg2
5 yards yeah.. thats not gonna hit anything. that's less than melee range.
people manage to avoid 36-40 yard range spells by running away as you're casting
think about it
I don't know Heyaz. You could have your "CC" key be one Druid Entangling Roots, one Druid Solar Beams, and the other three nuke. Then it rotates. A caster will be completely unable to do anything against this--You're going to be rooted, incapacitated, and silenced--And silenced in such a way that you can't trinket it.
There's just not a big Kapow!! skill like lava burst or fulminate. Meleers are a problem, and you'll really have to work at trying to take advantage of eclipse. Shifting out to heal stinks, and lack of totem protection and buff overlap also hurts.
Druids will be a mix of effectively utilizing stealth, appling IS+MF spam, and staying mobile to avoid being feared or meleed down. Other than what Mosg2 suggests with an instant cast root/solar beam round robin sequence, there's not a huge gameplay difference than how Boomkins play today.
I really like my druid team, but I made the mistake in WotLK of leveling a sub-optimal team first (Hunters) because I thought they were unique and cute. This time, I'm sticking to shaman first!
Burst will ALWAYS be good, even if the pacing of the game slows down. Plus, I have a feeling that a charged up fulmination dump is going to devastate people in BGs. There's a psychological impact that can't be ignored there. When you get ROFLstomped by a multiboxer once or twice, you're loathe to jump right in there and do it again. (DK+Rets had this fear factor in spades).
It would be different if Starsurge had a big punch like Lava Burst, but it's just not quite there, IMO.
I don't know Boylston, I'm starting to come around a weeeeeeee bit on the Druids as a second team. BG's are a totally different animal than arenas and I can see them dominating in BG's. They just have different tools than the Shaman do.
It sounds like you're misunderstanding the mechanics because it's not center on the caster, which is what you're implying. If you read the other responses here, I think it would be clear. Think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
I agree at the lack of a huge dump on boomkins now. With the new changes to eclipse, there's no proc management so I think it'll be far easier for boxers to manage eclipses since it works on a fixed (for the most part) slider scale. Instant rooting while moving will give plenty of protection from melee, and don't forget that even a wild mushroom x5 can utterly devestate multiple melee (same time to drop a set of totems), if you take the time to drop a full set mushroom x15. Last I checked on beta they're detonating for 7k non crit, 15k crit - each. It's overkill, non-crit, on plate tanks at this point in time.Quote:
There's just not a big Kapow!! skill like lava burst or fulminate. Meleers are a problem, and you'll really have to work at trying to take advantage of eclipse. Shifting out to heal stinks, and lack of totem protection and buff overlap also hurts.
There's one main difference between boomkins and ele shamans. Boomkins Are insanely strong for AoE. Which will be devastating for pugs, but the damage is probably healable if you got some good dedicated healers. Where ele's focus is single target burst.
I think that is what makes the classes what they are. If you get the burst 4 x you can instagib people very casually, where i wonder how a boomkin will deal with 2-3 good healers.
There's no doubt boomkins can be extremely fun to play, especially vs pugs.
It's easier to manage eclipses across multiple characters. However... Multibox Boomkin PvP style is NOT to stand in one place and spurt out Wraths or Starfires over and over again. In my experience, it is a lot of loading up Moonfires and Insect Swarms on people and using Typhoon/Starfall to do great AoE burst. I rarely find myself just standing in one spot casting non-instants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alemi
I don't buy this. They will close on you before DoTs kill them. Too many tools to close and too many tools to get out of roots. It buys you time, and probably precious little. Any melee reinforced with some heals is going to be a big problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alemi
I have always been excited by this. Just to confirm, you're saying that at L85 in beta, you can do around 7,000 x 3 x 5 (for a 5xboomkin team) on a full pop of mushrooms? Or 105,000 without factoring any crits into the picture? That's pretty good, better than I expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alemi
I think Elementals can do decent AoE as well. Chain lightning puts pressure on people, and the shamans best AoE tools are good where you need them, which is at point blank range while you're getting swarmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleburst
I think any decent amount of enemy healing is going to cause problems for an all-boomkin team.
Fear vulnerability is also VERY high with this team.
Everything shamans were good at just gets better in Cataclysm, as near as I can tell. I love, love, love the playstyle of my druids right now, but I just think shaman will be more competitive in rated BGs.
And... if I'm wrong. I've already got the boomers sitting there at L80. :)
I totally agree against melee teams. Caster (spell-cleave) teams is probably where you'll see some benefit from eclipes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boylston
I've glad'ed it in 2s and 3s with my druid and find roots to be highly effective. Also, consider that with chaining macros you can use a /cast [target=arenax] Entangling Roots and effectively root the entire team, while moving. Include in a /cast [target=arenax] Solar Beam and you'll force a trinket pop, and at buy team to nuke down a single target.Quote:
I don't buy this. They will close on you before DoTs kill them. Too many tools to close and too many tools to get out of roots. It buys you time, and probably precious little. Any melee reinforced with some heals is going to be a big problem.
In a rated BG - I'll agree that multiple melee will be a problem since you lack the arena frame to use the effective multi cc. I'm testing out ISboxer in picking targets based on tab and it's working out, semi-effectively.
Correct. 100k damage from mushrooms.Quote:
I have always been excited by this. Just to confirm, you're saying that at L85 in beta, you can do around 7,000 x 3 x 5 (for a 5xboomkin team) on a full pop of mushrooms? Or 105,000 without factoring any crits into the picture? That's pretty good, better than I expected.
My theorycraft is to start in stealth, get to a point you can CC their entire team asap (cyclone ideally) and drop your mushrooms since it will take ~6 seconds. If you force an early trinket, awesome, root/solar beam, stock up on AOE damage and wait for melee to come up and boom. You'll at least force healers to move and prevent some direct heals while they move out of the beams.
On a side note - solar beam will make you effectively immune to fear bombs as well - with the exception of Intimidating Shout, as that is the only physical fear (Pychic Scream and Howl of Terror would be subject to silence effects).Quote:
Fear vulnerability is also VERY high with this team.
I'm really enjoying moonfire spamming people with full lunar showers up... 90% less mana cost, doing about 6k instant non-crit. And the new shooting stars is procing quite often (more than 4% it seems but i guess it evens out since it can tick from dot ticks) to cast an instant 20k starsurge.Quote:
Everything shamans were good at just gets better in Cataclysm, as near as I can tell. I love, love, love the playstyle of my druids right now, but I just think shaman will be more competitive in rated BGs.
And... if I'm wrong. I've already got the boomers sitting there at L80. :)
Overgrowth is gone
A little sad, what they should have done is required an entangling roots cast time.
-1 for the Druids. :(
Yeah I saw that this morning. It's a big hit.
Looks like Warlocks are going to be the third team for me :)