JC/Alchemy Cost and Time

As part of preperation for Cata, I am thinking of starting JC/Alch on my toons. I have read some of the older threads and wow-profession.com on the subject. Approximately how long and how much does it cost you to level a team? I have 2 teams at 80. One team has over 5k each toon. the other team has 2k each. Tanks have skinning already. Another toon on each team has disenchanting. What are the scripts for crafting? I cant find the threads any more and i didnt copy them down. Do i do Alchemy first since you need the transmute?

To power level alchemy (as in, I'm too lazy to farm herbs) cost me about 2 to 2.5k per toon (I did 6 toons this past week). I hear jewel crafting is retardedly expensive to level.

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Originally Posted by Siaea

To power level alchemy (as in, I'm too lazy to farm herbs) cost me about 2 to 2.5k per toon (I did 6 toons this past week). I hear jewel crafting is retardedly expensive to level.

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Indeed. Due to it being one of the most wanted proffesions and the supply for the gems needed to level hardly exists.

This might be a dumb question, but what is the purpose of having multiple JCs? Is it just to get all the cuts faster? Or some kind of cooldown that they have/will have? Maybe dragons eyes for sale?

you need more alchemist than JC. one JC icy prism gives 2-3 gems that you need to transmute. so roughly you need 2-3 alchemist for ever JC you have.... at least that's what I've found.

Jc's have a daily which gives them coins. For 4 coins (4 dailies done) you can learn a new design or buy a dragon's eye(~100g) The more JC's you have, the fewer days you have to wait for a new design.

Are the coins not Soulbound? and so you would wait the same amount of days but get a pattern on each toon?

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Originally Posted by crowdx

Are the coins not Soulbound? and so you would wait the same amount of days but get a pattern on each toon?

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Exactly, so if you want 10 designs and have 2 toons you only have to wait 5 days? :D But i understand what you mean ;)

You can do a fast mat test on that

04 days - 1 player 1 cut - team of 5 5 cut
08 days - 1 player 2 cut - team of 5 10 cut
12 days - 1 player 3 cut - team of 5 15 cut
16 days - 1 player 4 cut - team of 5 20 cut

It´s going to take 1 player 80 days to get the 20 cut that the 5 man have after 16 days - more different cut = more money

Yes but cuts sell for different prices, one JC is more then sufficient as you will obviosly be buying the cuts that sell for the most first anyways.

Just for boxers you can do more dailies sooner but I bought tons of titanium ore to get the powder to get the things you buy the recipies with so you don't need to do dailies (but I spent over 50K on ore but I got a lot of that back from the gems I found also).

I would not make more then one JC (I making 2 out of 36 as one guy is already at 350 so don't want to waste him).

Im giong enginerring instead for pvp.

Okay, so that's what I thought it was - really, I could only see a bunch of JCs able to exploit the market by having all cuts first for so long. Would it be long enough to recoup the massive expense of leveling a JC in the first place?

The other issue I see with it is that you need to actually do a daily quest - which is pretty easy if you have one team, but when you get to having 5 teams it just seems like a lot of drama.

My goal in Cata is to have bunches of tailor/alchemists - both have cooldowns that can be sold, and neither will require (so far) anything other than clicking a couple of buttons to use them. Tailoring is dirt cheap to level since you get piles of cloth as a byproduct of leveling your team, and alchemy isn't terribly expensive.

Thanks for clarifying the reasoning behind having a herd of JCs :)

thanks alot guys and gals. I think just need some reassurence before starting a huge project. I think I'll start one JC and 4 alch. there's doesn't seem to be any cool down for JC recipes.

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Originally Posted by kate

Okay, so that's what I thought it was - really, I could only see a bunch of JCs able to exploit the market by having all cuts first for so long. Would it be long enough to recoup the massive expense of leveling a JC in the first place?

The other issue I see with it is that you need to actually do a daily quest - which is pretty easy if you have one team, but when you get to having 5 teams it just seems like a lot of drama.

My goal in Cata is to have bunches of tailor/alchemists - both have cooldowns that can be sold, and neither will require (so far) anything other than clicking a couple of buttons to use them. Tailoring is dirt cheap to level since you get piles of cloth as a byproduct of leveling your team, and alchemy isn't terribly expensive.

Thanks for clarifying the reasoning behind having a herd of JCs :)

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Even now, uncuts sell for up to 50g less then cut gems on our AH. market is pretty inactive aswell, so if you actually use JC at max level, you can easily earn a profit.

Sidenote: if you would sell the cloth instead of using it it would give you gold. So to be honest, it's far from free. But you just don't have to spend gold on it. Alchemy cooldown proved to be much more valuable then the tailoring one. So if you use the CD every day, Alchemy will net you a lot more profit. Especially combined with JC.

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Originally Posted by lightstriker

thanks alot guys and gals. I think just need some reassurence before starting a huge project. I think I'll start one JC and 4 alch. there's doesn't seem to be any cool down for JC recipes.

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There's indeed no cooldown on cutting gems.

Only the Prism is a cooldown, which is a 20h CD spell which requires some uncommon gems. In the Prism you'll find possibly an epic gem and/or a rare.

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Originally Posted by Littleburst

Even now, uncuts sell for up to 50g less then cut gems on our AH. market is pretty inactive aswell, so if you actually use JC at max level, you can easily earn a profit.

Sidenote: if you would sell the cloth instead of using it it would give you gold. So to be honest, it's far from free. But you just don't have to spend gold on it. Alchemy cooldown proved to be much more valuable then the tailoring one. So if you use the CD every day, Alchemy will net you a lot more profit. Especially combined with JC.

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On my server, there is SO MUCH CLOTH that the only ones worth selling are wool and mageweave, occasionally runecloth (but that's been iffy for me), usually - otherwise it sells for just a bit over vendor price, and if you have an auction fail to sell even once you wind up losing money due to deposits; even when it sells you still wind up barely breaking even because of the AH cut. Functionally, there's essentially no difference between using it to level tailoring or risking a loss/slight profit. To further skew things, I have been making a substantial income selling everything my tailors make while skilling up as disenchant fodder (once I've gotten my own enchanter skilled up, of course).

What's really odd is that, for many items, I can sell the items to be disenchanted for, in many cases, more than I'd be able to sell the dusts/essences for if I just DE'd them myself! In any case, I'm making more by skilling up tailoring and selling the results (either as items or dusts/essences) than I would from just selling the cloth right now.

I will probably have a single max level JC - I just don't see the value in leveling a bunch of them in order to take advantage of a very limited window of opportunity to have ALL the cuts before anyone else, especially given that my server is medium/high population, so there will certainly be plenty of competition for cuts right off the bat.

Looks like a sign of "each market is different" and "your mileage may vary"

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Originally Posted by DLoweinc

Looks like a sign of "each market is different" and "your mileage may vary"

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Indeed and i'd like Kate's market :D

How long would it take to re coup costs of leveling alchemy? 2500g to level.. 100g a day profit with cut gems even with costs of materials? 25 days?

Looking at doing it on 5x toons when I have the cash

Won't tailoring potentially be a good money spinner in cat?

Curently have two tailors, one is only at 325 for cloth scavenging on my tank to get a bit more cloth until I potentially replace it later. The other is on my Mage and planning to keep that for crafting.

JC will sell for tons, and if you take the time to read shodokans post about JC and buying mats / crafting ect you will understand why he uses so many jc's. Theres alot to get with the gem's and if you have *ALL* the patterns you never miss someone wtb anything.

Just make sure if you level multiple jc's you have a plan like one guy gets caster gems, one guy gets melee, or do colors =p.

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Originally Posted by Harrypott

How long would it take to re coup costs of leveling alchemy? 2500g to level.. 100g a day profit with cut gems even with costs of materials? 25 days?

Looking at doing it on 5x toons when I have the cash

Won't tailoring potentially be a good money spinner in cat?

Curently have two tailors, one is only at 325 for cloth scavenging on my tank to get a bit more cloth until I potentially replace it later. The other is on my Mage and planning to keep that for crafting.

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The huge difference between them is demand. Every single player will need gems.

I'm not sure on CD on tailoring, but if it's again 4 days, then there's no way you're gonna make a 400g profit on that cooldown. You could still go for it since you won't have to do dailies, but if you're looking for just money, tailoring is probably the least profitable. Alchemy will beat is aswell i think.

http://db.mmo-champion.com/static/im...t_cloth_57.png Dream of Azshara
525 525 Combines cloth and the elements of water to weave a piece of Dreamcloth. This Dreamcloth recipe can only be created once a week.
Creates Dreamcloth.
6.83 days cooldown, Reagents: Bolt of Embersilk Cloth x 8, Volatile Water x 30
http://db.mmo-champion.com/static/im...t_cloth_57.png Dream of Deephome
525 525 Combines cloth and the elements of earth to weave a piece of Dreamcloth. This Dreamcloth recipe can only be created once a week.
Creates Dreamcloth.
6.83 days cooldown, Reagents: Bolt of Embersilk Cloth x 8, Volatile Earth x 30
http://db.mmo-champion.com/static/im...t_cloth_57.png Dream of Hyjal
525 525 Combines cloth and the elements of life to weave a piece of Dreamcloth. This Dreamcloth recipe can only be created once a week.
Creates Dreamcloth.
6.83 days cooldown, Reagents: Bolt of Embersilk Cloth x 8, Volatile Life x 30
http://db.mmo-champion.com/static/im...t_cloth_57.png Dream of Ragnaros
525 525 Combines cloth and the elements of fire to weave a piece of Dreamcloth. This Dreamcloth recipe can only be created once a week.
Creates Dreamcloth.
6.83 days cooldown, Reagents: Bolt of Embersilk Cloth x 8, Volatile Fire x 30
http://db.mmo-champion.com/static/im...t_cloth_57.png Dream of Skywall
525 525 Combines cloth and the elements of air to weave a piece of Dreamcloth. This Dreamcloth recipe can only be created once a week.
Creates Dreamcloth.
6.83 days cooldown, Reagents: Bolt of Embersilk Cloth x 8, Volatile Air x 30
http://db.mmo-champion.com/static/im...t_cloth_57.png Dreamcloth (Shadow)
525 525 Creates Dreamcloth.
6.83 days cooldown, Reagents: Bolt of Embersilk Cloth x 8, Volatile Shadow x 30

So if I follow this there will be 6 Dreamcloth Recipes.

I am guessing the don't share a cool down timer.
So you will be able to make 6 pieces of Dreamcloth per week.
Is that Correct ?

That sounds like a money maker to me.
And easier as you can do all 6 at the same time. Do it on sunday and your done for the week.

But leveling Tailors is expensive. The amount of Frostweave to level takes a mountain of material.

Yes - that how i understand it too.

To make a 24 slot bag = 5 Dreamcloth

But remeber it´s still beta

Holy Moly! There's over 100 designs and you get one token a day. Titanium Powder cost 15-30 gold each. Is there a faster boxing way? Really, by the time I am done Cata will be out. What lvl do you have to be just to get the prof perks?

Buy titanium ore and prospect for the powder. You get a lot of stuffs to mostly recoup your monies. You don't need all of them though, just get the ones that sell for the most.

i sorry. i re-read the first page. I prob dont remember it because i didnt understand it.

Isn't it simpler just to have only ONE JC? The benefit you get from having multiple JC's isn't worth it considering expensse when you could just have another Alchemist instead?

It's always simpler to have 1. The tradeoff is being able to do more sooner. Looking especially at the early parts of expansions -

I have 4 JCs. I can run the daily on all of them every day and in 4 days, I get 4 different Gem patterns. This means I get all the patterns in a quarter of the time it takes anyone else on my server. This also means I can cover more of the market in cut gems faster, while prices are higher in early parts of the expansion.

I also get 4 JC "upgrade" transmutes {Icy Prism/Brilliant Glass/Whatever the new one will be} instead of 1, which is the potential for several more rare and epic gems.

Finally, being done with buying patterns means I can get into the market for Dragon's Eye {and whatever the new version may be} that much sooner. And in the case of Wrath, I could prospect my Titanium and sell the powder to all those poor guys still trying to get an edge in the gem market.

On the other hand, I also have 7 alchemists. All those extra gems feed the alchy transmutes nicely, then I can turn around and take the transmuted gems and cut them using the patterns I have that the other people on my server don't yet. Even this late in the expansion, I still make a nice turn off 5 minutes of my time trading in my tokens for dragons eyex4.

How much do you think you can make in one run through or per day on that setup Khatovar.

I'm not even sure how much you could make say from 10 Alchemists... comapred to say 1 JC and 9 Alchemists.. or 4:6.