Keyclone vs ISBoxer - my experience

Well, i just subscribed to ISBoxer so i thought i'd post a little debrief about keyclone and ISBoxer.
This is obviously just my understanding/experience (please correct me if i misunderstood some things), but i think some new people could find it useful.
This is all based from a World of warcraft point of view

Although the overall goal of those two softs is the same (sending keystrokes and mouse events across multiple game instances, managing screen position etc) the way they approach it is quite different.

Keyclone is *game window* oriented. You define the number of windows (commands), how to run them and what screen region to run them in.
keystrokes are sent to other windows and same for mouse events (if you want them to).
If you have several toons on the same account, they will most likely use the same command and screen position (at startup anyway) and key mappings.

Pros:
- Very easy to get started, and *understand* how it all works.
- create your commands, launch the game instances and BAM, keys are passed from one game instance to the other
- intuitive "do not pass", "overide", key mappings, mouse broadcasting
- cheap, $20 for unlimited usage (per machine)
- Great support from the developer
- Good support from the growing community
- Simple install

Cons:
- very clunky mouse repeater. Once you click, the mouse actually has to move to all other screens to simlutate the click.
- slow screen swapping, depending on machine specs. mine always took 2-3seconds to swap.
- Rob used to be very active on the dual-boxing forums, but has been MIA for some time now (although accessible directly via email/phone)
- latest update is a year old

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ISBoxer is more *game character* oriented. You define your team and characters, and then you give them settings like the screen region or the keymaps. Your toons are in a big character pool, and can be given any of the defined screen regions or keymaps.

Pros:
- easy wizard to get started (but default settings might not match your needs)
- completely customizable to fill your needs, on a character, team or global level
- powerful key mapping with steps, screen messages, macros etc
- in-built FTL support (automatic transparent leader swap when changing main screens for example)
- instant (yes, *instant*, even on my clunky machine) screen swap, when changing which display is main.
- very accurate mouse broadcasting, able to broadcast click to very little objects (talents, bag items, wow addon settings for example)
- real time mouse broadcasting, you see the mouse (or targetting circle :-) on all 5 screens as you move it on the main.
- strong macro making functionality
- everything is virtualized (created on the fly), you don't need to change anything from your solo play
- strong do-not-pass mechanism (white/black list)
- excellent support from Lax, and easy way to contact the developer (Irc channel, d-b forums, innerspace forums)
- Good support from the growing community
- regular updates

Cons:
- it takes a little while to understand how it all works, and how ISBoxers objects (keymaps, regions, characters, broadcast) all interact with each other. Thankfull you can copy and modify things generated from the wizard.
- subscription model. You pay repeatedly. More expensive than keyclone if you multibox more than 3 months.
- more difficult to install than Keyclone. Still quite simple however. I personaly had undocumented errors (cause: old .Net framework, eventually found why on the innerspace forums).
- it took me two nights to get a non-wizarded team to work as i had using keyclones. mainly because i wasn't using the default keymaps from the wizard, and had to understand how to create mine and assign them to the toons.

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TLDR (too long, didn't read):
Keyclone is cheaper and easier, but ISBoxer is so much more powerful that it is worth spending the time working it.
I have keyclone, but have now moved to ISBoxer.


Cheers
-Zub

Nice review, good read. Definitely useful for either youngin's that come in fresh or veterans thinking of switching.

IS pro: Two very good tutorials written by users. Along with all that Lax has done, the info is out there and not hard to find.

Excellent - just what I was looking for :) I have been considering switching to IsBoxer for some time - mostly for healing through Vuhdo - but have decided to wait until I have a new PC to install it on. Now the big question is - update before or after Cata :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elgert

Excellent - just what I was looking for :) I have been considering switching to IsBoxer for some time - mostly for healing through Vuhdo - but have decided to wait until I have a new PC to install it on. Now the big question is - update before or after Cata :confused:

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before :-)

once cata is here you'll want to play, not configure ISBoxer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zub

before :-)

once cata is here you'll want to play, not configure ISBoxer

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Good idea - guess i'll have to advance the date for the bank robbery :D

This review has just convinced me to Buy ISBoxer, the problem when I pvp'd with keyclone was screenswapping which would take 2-3 seconds and usually be the cause of my death. I get paid on the first of August and will be investing in a subscription.

I just have one question, is the transition from Keyclone to ISBoxer easy?

Nice review!

Keyclone was great back in the day, no doubt. It hasn't been updated in forever though. Isboxer is beyond good. Well worth the fee.

That's the problem with pay once, get it forever. It's sort of like a Ponzi scheme. You need new people to purchase it, in order to fund the development of new versions.

I'd rather just pay the subscription and know we'll get some awesome upgrades.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by celticlad94

This review has just convinced me to Buy ISBoxer, the problem when I pvp'd with keyclone was screenswapping which would take 2-3 seconds and usually be the cause of my death. I get paid on the first of August and will be investing in a subscription.

I just have one question, is the transition from Keyclone to ISBoxer easy?

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The first time i screen swapped was by mystake, i clicked the slave window expecting it to take focus (as in keyclone) but with ISBoxer this actually brings it to the main area.
I saw the screen flicker for a millisec and there was the classic WTF moment when you think to yourself, 'what just happened'?
then i realized the screens had swapped.

Transition from Keyclone to ISBoxer is not difficult, but can require a bit of work if (like me) you don't want to use the default keymaps generated by the ISBoxer wizard.
There is a 7-day trial version, so feel free to use that to test it (what i did) and i would suggest you use the wizard anyway and make sure everything works with the default keybindings (clicks broadcast successfully, layout regions work, etc, not actually downing bosses)
Then, copying some of the wizard-created keymaps, add your own customized ones.

If you had no problem at all with setting up Keyclone (which is simpler) you should be able to manage ISBoxer.
There is also a document from Lax on how to migrate from Keyclone to ISBoxer, which explains the different naming conventions and a few workflows. From memory you get to download it when you fill in the application form for ISBoxer or sometime during the install (it's somewhere on the forums here as well)

Also, (and i found about it after, but would have referred Ualaa for it, sorry mate) there is a great post on how to configure ISBoxer here:
http://www.dual-boxing.com/showthread.php?t=26231

hope this helps
-Zub

A good review, and a fair one at that.

I think Rob did a great job with Keyclone and I think it's a great option for those looking for easy and simple multiboxing software.

That said, the highly impressive configurability of ISBoxer won me over after a year or so of happily running with Keyclone and it's been worth every cent. The sheer power of the tricky things it can do has made running my 5xPaladin team, my first all-melee team, vastly easier than it might otherwise have been.

One thing I'd change, is move the Subscription model from the Con section the to Pro section and for the same reason I had hoped Diablo III would be subscription based - it lends itself highly to the developer of the content, whatever it may be, to a process of continual improvement (a nice Six Sigma/Lean/GDF buzzword, but a true one too).

One Con I would agree with though, is the relatively sparse documentation for such a versatile and powerful program. I know there's user made tutorials, as well as Lax's own tutorials, and while they're very helpful I found the lack of complete, detailed and exhaustive documentation to be an issue, both in the intiial (and relatively steep) learning curve, and more importantly in a way, when I got comfortable with ISBoxer and started looking to do more powerful things with it.

Lax though has been always available, both here and over at ISBoxer.com and has readily, speedily and informatively answered any question I've put up there, so this Con is somewhat mitigated by that, but some in-depth doco delving right down into the nitty gritty of ISBoxer would be welcome (if such exists, please point me to it, and I'll happily stand corrected).

Props to both Rob and Lax for their software (and Jafula too for the absolutely must-have Jamba add-on).

To be fair there is the User Manual which is fairly in depth, granted some pages are incomplete: http://www.isboxer.com/wiki/User_Manual

In my experience though, when people complain about the documentation they're not really looking for the documentation. It's always something really obscure and specific to their needs and they want a step by step walkthrough of how to do it, and if that walkthrough doesn't exist then "the documentation sucks" ;)

And yeah, I agree with you Oz on the subscription model -- not only does it make sure development continues, but it also makes sure tech support is available! Another thing is that I have been developing the next generation of software, and it will be available for no extra cost to current subscribers. If it was on a single payment model, you'd have to buy a new product every year (or continue using the old and busted) and there would be a dramatic price increase each time ;)

All that said, Zub made a fair assessment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax

To be fair there is the User Manual which is fairly in depth, granted some pages are incomplete: http://www.isboxer.com/wiki/User_Manual

And yeah, I agree with you Oz on the subscription model -- not only does it make sure development continues, but it also makes sure tech support is available! Another thing is that I have been developing the next generation of software, and it will be available for no extra cost to current subscribers.

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Some of us dummies need step by step!

My guild mates probably get sick of my bragging about how much I love ISBoxer now! I'm always on vent saying " OMG! I just laid down 5 sets of treants and hurricanes in an instant!" or "Holy crap! I just switched screens and had to double check that it actually swapped because it happened so fast I could not see it switch! "

Being able to. for example, have one or two classes on a team that have GTAE spells and keymap it so when they hit that hotkey, they start their GTAE and the rest of the team do normal spells. Its just a dream!

That said, It took me a year of trying it out every now and then to finally switch. With my pal-sham team.. Keyclone worked just right for me. So i found it hard to make the prema switch. It wasn't until I made my druid team and paly team that I started thinking I need to figure out ISBoxer ( for the ease of mouse broadcasting and IWT ) that i finally made the switch!

Also going from a focus based system to FTL is another thing that ISBoxer makes so much better. Now i can use focus to assign CC targets and such( which will come in handy in Cata with all the CC that will be needed) I feel LIBERATED!

And your working on next gen? how could it get any better!?!

Every time I think lax hit the end of innovation he manages to step up his game. I'm looking forward to seeing the new app and all the new toys!

Sent from my Android!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax

Another thing is that I have been developing the next generation of software, and it will be available for no extra cost to current subscribers.

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Um... woot! Whatever the improvements, I'm sure they'll help us keep up with the Cata jump in boxing difficulty - thanks Lax! It's you vs Blizzard!

i got a ? for those of you that use isboxer, i see in a lot of youtube vids people using mouse broadcasting in isboxer. is it hard to setup and get working good? that is one of my main reasons for thinking of moving to isboxer is the ability to finally cast those "pieplate" aoe's.

Thanks in advance,
JsT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jstanthr

i got a ? for those of you that use isboxer, i see in a lot of youtube vids people using mouse broadcasting in isboxer. is it hard to setup and get working good? that is one of my main reasons for thinking of moving to isboxer is the ability to finally cast those "pieplate" aoe's.

Thanks in advance,
JsT

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This deserves its own thread but since I read almost everything on this site I'll reply. Yes it's very easy. All you need is for your games to be set at the same resolution in order to get 1:1 broadcasting. This requires more power from your hardware but seeing as you've got a sexy sounding rig you shouldn't have any issue with this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jstanthr

i got a ? for those of you that use isboxer, i see in a lot of youtube vids people using mouse broadcasting in isboxer. is it hard to setup and get working good? that is one of my main reasons for thinking of moving to isboxer is the ability to finally cast those "pieplate" aoe's.

Thanks in advance,
JsT

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using an old dual core with 2GB of Ram to 5-box.
i have video set to low, but still i can mouse broadcast fairly well. My hurricane and blizzard hit about the same spot all the time.

The setup is as easy as checking one box in the key map you chose.
mine is numpad5, all i had to do was checking the 'send next click' box. Basically it sends a click at the mouse position and that's it. so your ground targetting circle actually casts the spell, on all windows (or those you chose) at the same time as your main

Quote:

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Originally Posted by celticlad94

This review has just convinced me to Buy ISBoxer, the problem when I pvp'd with keyclone was screenswapping which would take 2-3 seconds and usually be the cause of my death. I get paid on the first of August and will be investing in a subscription.

I just have one question, is the transition from Keyclone to ISBoxer easy?

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Biggest recommendation -- just start from scratch.

Forget everything you know about your keybindings, start with the wizard and begin adding as you go. Its best to just pass the 1through = keys anyways imo, as you can fit tons of stuff there.

Things you will want to setup with isboxer is your keymaps, and also repeater regions.
Repeater regions require some sort of clicking unit frames ie: vuhdo, grid + clique, healbot, or normal raid frames + clique.

I have to agree. The best thing you can do when moving from Keyclone or any of the scripting alternatives to ISBoxer is to simply discard everything you have, including macros and key bindings and just use the Wizard to create a new team from scratch. You'll be amazed that you can re-do, simplify, and vastly improve your entire setup that took you weeks and months in a couple hours :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akoko

I have to agree. The best thing you can do when moving from Keyclone or any of the scripting alternatives to ISBoxer is to simply discard everything you have, including macros and key bindings and just use the Wizard to create a new team from scratch. You'll be amazed that you can re-do, simplify, and vastly improve your entire setup that took you weeks and months in a couple hours :)

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This thread almost made it an entire year without being necro'd. And we all know what happens to threads
that get necro'd don't we?!

EDIT: Just kidding... I guess I'll just leave it open until people start discussing things that aren't relevant anymore.

Actually, i'd be interested to know if people get active responses from Rob when they have issues with Keyclone.

In my original post (which i'm happy to amend if needed) i stated that Lax (ISBoxer) was very responsive and that Rob (Keyclone) seemed to be less present on the forums.That was a year ago..

Has the situation changed at all? I can't see any posts from Rob at all these days, but i'd be interested in how good his support to direct emails/solidice is.