Cata- New Talent Trees.

I like that the description for Elemental Mastery still says it shares a cooldown with Nature's Swiftness. :)

Paladin: First glance I am disappointed. Not enough points to get the tanking cleave, Not enough points to max out the prot tree. Forced to take all the cool down reduction talents so theres not enough points to take some of the more interesting talents. No more Divine Sacrifice/cancel aura raid cool down. I don't like that ardent defender is no longer passive but now a cool down because of sloppy healers I have to look out for. I thought they were making it so you did not have to talent out to be crit immune, but Holy Shield has a 6% crit reduction added to it. Lack of overall talents so there are not really raid builds vs casual builds. Hybrid specs are dead if they force that 31 talent rule.

However its early and the talents are not complete and i'm sure there will be talent wipes all through wow 4.0 like they did with the death knights in lich king.

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Originally Posted by Owltoid

Cookie cutter forced.
Talents wasted unless you play the cookie cutter way.
Most concerns about the change verified.

That sum up the new system enough? Ya, it's QQ... it's a discussion forum. QQ belongs here when changes are bad.

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Depends on which class you are talking about, prot pally actually has a LOT of ways it can play out. I see some talents I would take differently than the first post for elemental too. But lets be honest, I bet everyone here has specc'd their shaman within 1 or 2 points. So cookie cutter now is better than cookie cutter later eh?

Oh and did anyone see the DK tanking tree?! Holy SHIT, Im expecting lots and lots of nerfs.

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Originally Posted by Firstcow

Wow, Art of War now makes Holy Light instant, not Flash of Light.

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might be some mana issues there

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

Depends on which class you are talking about, prot pally actually has a LOT of ways it can play out. I see some talents I would take differently than the first post for elemental too. But lets be honest, I bet everyone here has specc'd their shaman within 1 or 2 points. So cookie cutter now is better than cookie cutter later eh?

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You have to spend atleast 31 points in whatever spec you choose. that leaves 10 points to throw around. Cookie cutter all specs basically.

Edit: Also that AoW looks sweet but holy light is replacing flash of light in effect its the same thing as before.

Show me a hybrid spec that works right now that isnt a DK and isn't for some silly niche role. If you thought you were going to get class defining abilities as an opposite spec.. well you were smoking something. A lot of this looks very beta right now too, expect it to change.

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

Show me a hybrid spec that works right now that isnt a DK and isn't for some silly niche role. If you thought you were going to get class defining abilities as an opposite spec.. well you were smoking something. A lot of this looks very beta right now too, expect it to change.

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Youre totally right.

I have no reason why they are changing the talent system . Clearly blizzard knew what we were going to choose ahead of time. I am starting to wonder why there is a talent system in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

Show me a hybrid spec that works right now that isnt a DK and isn't for some silly niche role. If you thought you were going to get class defining abilities as an opposite spec.. well you were smoking something. A lot of this looks very beta right now too, expect it to change.

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I'm not sure what you're saying. Can you rephrase your comment please? I don't know if you're talking about a hybrid spec in WotLK that works (and what you mean by works). Also, I don't know what you're referring to with class defining abilities as an opposite spec.

If I'm guessing correctly, then I totally agree with you that if they allowed hybrid specs then they shouldn't get the defining ability (for example a hybrid holy/disc should not get the mastery holy nor the mastery disc).

Here's a few possible Prot Pally specs: http://www.wowtal.com/#k=eptSIvrn.9mn.paladin http://www.wowtal.com/#k=W8HOO2J2.9mn.paladin http://www.wowtal.com/#k=WpSZ0osxl.9mn.paladin http://www.wowtal.com/#k=epalwVRm.9mn.paladin If more trees were like this then there is a lot to choose. It depends on how these talents turn out, like, "What does reducing Divine Plea by 60 seconds gain me?" Do they plan on changing divine plea to include a damage reduction component? Also as it stands Ardent Defender now blows, hopefully it changes. It's very ambiguous in that it doesn't list how long it lasts... one hit? Who knows.

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Originally Posted by Multibocks

Here's a few possible Prot Pally specs: http://www.wowtal.com/#k=eptSIvrn.9mn.paladin http://www.wowtal.com/#k=W8HOO2J2.9mn.paladin http://www.wowtal.com/#k=WpSZ0osxl.9mn.paladin http://www.wowtal.com/#k=epalwVRm.9mn.paladin If more trees were like this then there is a lot to choose. It depends on how these talents turn out, like, "What does reducing Divine Plea by 60 seconds gain me?" Do they plan on changing divine plea to include a damage reduction component? Also as it stands Ardent Defender now blows, hopefully it changes. It's very ambiguous in that it doesn't list how long it lasts... one hit? Who knows.

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Holy shit, who knew you could do so much with a few extra left over talent points. Thats like 4 completely different specs you got there! Amazing.


They should just make talent templates for each spec and be done with it.


There will always be a cookie cutter build. That's just the nature of the game. This system just insures fewer if any players will, or by that matter, be able to, deviate from it. putting points in the new system is just a formality if it remains like this because they are in fact templates, in practice if not name. I think it's a little naive to believe they did this for the players rather than to simplify balancing the classes.


I believe I am trolling now, so I digress. Peace!

Just quit, save me some time.

I haven't been following all these talent madness. can someone fill me in with what's mastery talent ? and what happen if I don't get that 31 talent points ?

In the proposed talent system, you must spend 31 points before you can go into another tree. At level 85, that means you will have 10 points left over.

Mastery is good & bad. I like that they're giving defining abilities at level 10 (like penance for a disc priest), but they're using that as an excuse to not allow hybrid builds.

...so are elemental shaman losing thunderstorm, or is that the 'mastery' skill? And hooray for totally retarded talents, like Souca said.

I think elemental shamans get thunderstorm at level 10. That part is cool at least.

These talents mean nothing right now. All they've done is cut out the crappy talents, and they haven't gone through each tree with a fine toothed comb yet. In WotLK, everyone was getting psyched about resto shamans due to spirit link, but that was removed in place of riptide. It turned out that spirit link was too op, so they removed it.

You have to let Blizzard have a chance here. These new talent trees have only been seriously considered for about a week. Surely you can't expect the finalized version yet..., the DK tree was in the works for almost 9 months, if not more, before they settled on what we have now. That is all of alpha and beta plus even a few months into the actual expansion. (and that was just 1 class) Does anyone else remember season 5?... exactly

There is a blue post on mmo-champion that basically states Blizzard doesn't want hybrid specs. They basically said anytime a hybrid spec becomes popular it's because of players cherry picking talents between two trees to get an advantage in PvP. While I agree with their statement, isn't that part of balancing the game? To me it's just proof that they are using the minimum 31 point restriction to have an easier time balancing the game.

Too bad... crazy specs were the most fun part of the game for me. This is one change that is likely to stay. I'll be curious to see what they're doing in the next expansion. Cata is nothing more than getting roughly the same abilities as you had before, just needing 5 levels to get back to pre-talent tree change. If they add 5 more talent points in whatever comes post-Cata, are they going to do the same? I can't see them just giving 5 more points in the current proposed trees as it would again become a balancing issue.

Actually, Paladins still have Flash of Light. So AoW is affecting the mid-range heal. Sure, we don't know how much we can do before we run out of mana, but... DAMN is anything+4x Rets looking good for Cata.

Also, looking at the Necrotic Strike that's currently in beta... 4x DK's will be able to completely shut down ALL healing on a single target.

<---Super excited.

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Originally Posted by Elektroz

You have to let Blizzard have a chance here. These new talent trees have only been seriously considered for about a week.

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Actually, didn't they say they had been working on this for quite a while now and it wasn't like they were starting from scratch?

I think that is where a lot of rage is coming from: they are handing us a crayon drawing of stick figures in front of a house and telling us they have an art degree.

Maybe I just misread this quote, but I got the impression they had put a little more work into it.

We want to unveil the entire enchilada in the next beta build or so. Everyone here worked really hard to get the whole package to a relatively playable and polished state. In essence we're not announcing a future plan -- we're telling you how the game works today. It's all done.

But no matter what, people have a right to like this or hate it. It will no doubt change many times over the next few months and who knows what the final result will be, but that doesn't negate or invalidate anyone's feelings about these changes. The main thing is that we shouldn't let our opinions of these changes be mistaken for justification to act like dicks to anyone who doesn't share our views.

- Souca -

Hmm this is a note with the new ptr patch

While this is a first pass on all of the talent trees, death knight, druid, paladin, warlock, Arcane mage, and Assassination rogue trees are not as far along as other specializations.

So I guess commence QQing if your class wasn't listed.

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Originally Posted by Mosg2

4x DK's will be able to completely shut down ALL healing on a single target.

<---Super excited.

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Yeah, I'm excited about DKs. I think a ret+4DKs will be awesome, and even 2 ret 3 DKs

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Originally Posted by Mokoi

Yeah, I'm excited about DKs. I think a ret+4DKs will be awesome, and even 2 ret 3 DKs

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I understand the whole shutdown of healing, but the tools they will have overall i don't think will work well as a coherent group. At least with the rune functionality and amount of attacks you actually get.

No more DW+ Improve IT+ Unholy Presence+ Bloodcake+ Nercrosis

Elementalists are gone. Get rid of Frostfire.

Spriest + Sour Warding. /PUFF! Now I have to switch to Disc

Moving Hellfire....hmmmm.....

Are all DKs getting a permenant pet?

Overall it is much cleaner.

I'll wait for the final version (patch 4.4) before any decisions.

I hope Dual-Spec will be lower cost and lower level. Will you be able to level as protect warrrior or paladin in Cata?