10boxing (PVE only)

I have been 5boxing happily for quite some time now and of course I have read a bit about some guys starting to 10 box on these forums. From a strict PvE point of view 10 boxing's only advantage is to do Kara. Having seen a little bit of Kara while playing in my old raiding guild I think it is VERY hard to do any more than that first hunter boss 10 boxing (assuming you have a group suitable for 10boxing with only ranged dps: 3 healers, 2 tanks, 5 range dps).

Now they announced Zul Aman (sp?), a new 10man instance which doubles the usefulness of 10 boxes in PvE and I am beginning to think if I should level another 5box team. I whould level them rather slowly to make good use of rested exp. I think about using the 5 accounts I already have active (later transfering the new chars to new accounts when they actually hit 70) so there is no money investment involved for now.

Does anyone know if bliz plans for more 10 man content or if they are going to focus on 25mans?

Can anyone guess if a 10 boxer will stand any chance in Zul Aman (or any other Kara bosses)?

Does anyone actually have experience 10 boxing PvE and is willing to share his/her views?

What are your thoughts on this?

Sry to crit you with this wall of text but I am killing some time so I can leave work.
Bunny

I'm not a 5 or 10 boxer like some here, but I can't see one person doing a 10 man dungeon by himself. Without going insane:) On some bosses where it's a tank & spank, it could work. But there are fights where there is a lot of movement/kiting/etc required by multiple characters at the same time. You would have to be seriously PRO to work that out. Not to mention how you would sort out and control the necessary multiple classes. I don't think 7 warlocks and 3 priests will cut it.

If you can 10 man Kara by yourself, I'll come out there and lick your balls all day long. :shock:

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If you can 10 man Kara by yourself, I'll come out there and lick your balls all day long. Shocked

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I think I'll pass...

But just what I thought: attumen might work but killing moroes for example is just not possible I guess - although I whould like to be wrong on that.

I see Moroes as doable with my group. 4 frost novas, 4 sheep (?), 2x shackle. Deathcoil.

Your DPS is so high, garrote is a non issue. You need to keep alive for 50 seconds or less to burst him down. Save the PoM pyros, etc until his enrage and I think its doable. With 2 holy priests, stacking renews and 4 VW's.... yeah.

There will be more ten mans and they are likely to be ZG casual.

There are 4 mobs with Moroes that I would say are twice as hard as any regular trash mob in Kara, you need to lock them down or kill them before taking on Moroes while he is running around spanking the raid. They have special abilities also such as bubble ><

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Originally Posted by Xzin

I see Moroes as doable with my group. 4 frost novas, 4 sheep (?), 2x shackle. Deathcoil.

Your DPS is so high, garrote is a non issue. You need to keep alive for 50 seconds or less to burst him down. Save the PoM pyros, etc until his enrage and I think its doable. With 2 holy priests, stacking renews and 4 VW's.... yeah.

There will be more ten mans and they are likely to be ZG casual.

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4 ads, 2 shackles, which using a /focus macro can keep them locked down the whole fight.

Frost nova is viable yes, but you will need someone to tank Moroes while you take out the other 2 ads imo. As for deathcoil, unfortunately most of the mobs in Kara are undead, including Moroes and his ads, meaning fear and deathcoil are useless (apart from self-healing and dmg) in this and most encounters

The problem with TBC Raid bosses is their ability to 1-shot through cloth armor, almost regardless of the HP you're carrying, the VW's might keep em busy for a few seconds, but without an actual tank. Can't wait to be proved wrong on that one though :)

4 VWs + CC on the adds + 2 priests chain healing the VWs + 50 seconds of DPS (probably less) = win.

Or at least in theory :)

Since the adds can be pre targeted and focuses preassigned, that makes things MUCH easier.

Plus, you can setup formations too.

And when Moroes dies, you can run out and the adds despawn.

I see this as being possible. Tricky but possible with 4 locks 4 mages 2 priests. Would be easier with shammys :) Maybe :)

Don't underestimate how fast stuff dies with 8x DPSers on it. Especially with all cooldowns up. The encounters are balanced around 3 - 4 DPS/Hybrid classes, 2-3 tanks and 2 - 3 healers.

I don't have to heal sustained - I just have to keep the tanks alive long enough to DPS down Moroes.

But this could all be theory that sounds good and does nothing. No way to know until I finish leveling up and try it.

Very true, get on with it ;)

I wonder, would 2 people who 5 box each be able to take on Kara?

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Originally Posted by Kurgan

I wonder, would 2 people who 5 box each be able to take on Kara?

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I would still say it would come down to tanks, and some fights that require 6-8 players doing various things in sync might prove challenging at the least. I'm going to try and lvl 4 shamis and a pali as a holy tank, but not necesarily for Kara, just for kicks ;)

Like everyone is saying. Tanks are pretty vital when it comes to kara with the crushing blows in game and high crits. Most bosses are 2 levels over the 70 cap. Having a high amount of defense will make your tank uncrushable which is almost vital in BC raiding. I think the voidwalkers will be taking a considerable amount of damage from the bosses. And in the event a caster takes aggro (which is almost certain) they will get 2 shotted easily.

The beast boss might be the easiest for you to do. The trash mobs between bosses should be cake but the bosses are a bit more compicated. I would be really interested to see someone try this though. I am just going by expiriences and have never 5 boxed so zin should know more about this. I am just unsure if a voidwalker can take all that damage.

The VWs would only have to live long enough to win the fight, and theres 4 of them, and 2 holy priests.

Huntsman = Easy 10 box.

Moroes = Depends entirely on the DPS, shackle 2, offtank 2 (with pets or the tanks), build split agro on Moroes... burst DPS would be good, you would have to deal with 2 to 3 garrotes which isn't a big deal...

Maiden = Easy as hell.

Opera - Wolf - You would have to be VERY good at switching mains for the run.
Opera - R&J - As long as you could pick up agro quickly on the phase transitions this would be easy. Interupts are easier when 10 boxing I think because you never stomp on each others timers.
Opera - Oz - Lots going on here, semi-capable to pre-target... would be a bitch but doable.

Curator - If the groups based around ranged DPS this would be gravy, the more locks the better for the massive (30K CoD's) on evocate... Ranged = easy spark destruction, melee = amazing burst damage on evocates...

Illhoof - Easy fight.

Shade - Zomg movement... you would impress me to handle this... though with the Zin's 4 warlocks you could banish the adds easily...

Chess... free epics.

Nethersprite - Lots of movement involved, but I think could be done 10 box.

Prince - With proper positioning this fight is 100% trivial and involves no movement for ranged DPS once the pull is done.

Nightbane - Zomg easy for a multibox. Especially if you have heavy AE.

[hr]

All said and done, I can see a 10box doing all but Shade with a little practice, and Shade may actually be easier than I'm suggesting because getting ONE person to stay out of the snowstorm or stop moving on flame wreath, etc is a LOT easier than getting 10 to do the same.

I think the shade would be pretty doable tbh, as it doesn't require a main tank, I happily steal aggro on my lock early on and annoy our MT through the rest of the fight on my lock :)

The prince hits like a truck though, and while moving as one is required for the other 9 players, doing so with the Prince one-shotting people might be tricky :)

End of the day you're talking dps vs tanks and practice. I'm starting to think it's more doable than I first thought, and am really looking forwards to some people trying it out :)

Only thing I can see happening up there is Attumen. The rest, I won't say I'll knock it till you try it - but it is extremely difficult.

Maiden's concecration will own your void walkers. And double own after she casts repentance and our VW are 50% of a warrior incapble of mitigating crushing (and no shield so double wammy) - no one to heal them while your asleep for 10 second?

Moroes - I know I've shackled one of the four guards there 2-3x at least while the rest kill the rest. That's FORTY FIVE SECONDS per shackle. Not to mention the garrote will own you if you don't have pally blessing to remove it on your clothers (since you'll have to spam heal on your void walkers).

And Nightbane? Arguably the hardest guy in Kara? AE the skellies? You'll be OOM after the first take off - and you'd have to keep doing it for about 2-3 additional take offs.

Anyway, I'd be more than inspired if you can beat a heroic with 4 warlock and a priest. Until then, I'd sit back and relax, as a viewer, on the Kara post Attumen.

With proper positioning Prince takes NO movement after the pull.... just a matter of healing and DPS then.

Nightbane doesn't require AE for the skellies, however with sufficient AE/proper healing you can down them easily that way. We shift between assist train and ae tactics based on group build.

Garrotte is easy to heal through as long as you dont get too many stacked... and thats why warlocks have soulstones. If a DPS gets garrotte you soul stone them and have them burn their mana out then die... rez and wand while they regen. Warlocks can keep themselves alive easily drain tanking garrotte, so depending on class mix it should be easy (as long as you have 2 priests).

I agree with Dilbert. You need a well geared tank, whether that be a warrior/paladin/druid. Sure, you might have 5 Voidwalkers/Felguards up there, but they will all get mowed down in short order.

We would always take 3 healers, no more no less, to Kara. I understand you're going for nuke city, but I think 2 healers would get overwhelmed.

Also, if it were as easy as a nuke fest, a lot of guilds would be in there doing the same thing by now.

The raiding community, after all, is basically a copy-cat league. Maybe 1% or less actually figure the stuff out and post strats/guides/videos, maybe 5-10% improvise those strats to fit their own needs, and the rest just follow suit.

You could say the same for heroic instances to a point, and yet there are people running them with just 5 shamans. Guess we won't know what's possible until someone gets in there and tries it :)

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Originally Posted by Mannyman

We would always take 3 healers, no more no less, to Kara. I understand you're going for nuke city, but I think 2 healers would get overwhelmed.

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I send two groups through Karazhan weekly with only 2 healers, never have any shortages of healing. When we started we did 3 healers and we suffered on the fights due to lack of DPS, adding 500-800 more DPS really makes the fights in there trivial.