Druids vs Locks

A few notes:

1.) My main goal is a good BG team (rated eventually)
2.) PvP is 90% of the focus
3.) I'm really not that good

I have 5 druids at 80.

I don't have any locks.

Here are my choices:
1.) 5 (or less) moonkins. I have a feeling that playing 5 moonkins in a rated BG actually hurts your team and it may be better to play with less so you have more solo players or a healer following you around.
2.) 1 moonkin + 4 resto druids that play in caster form. The point is that they still cast wrath, starfire, and moonfire, but have wildgrowth available at any time for some mana regen and quick heals. This team would hopefully have high survivability, though low offense (from a multiboxing perspective)
3.) 4 locks. I'd likely spec my locks as a weird hybrid - Demo to get felguard and affliction to get siphon life. I'm hoping this would be a "highly" survivable team (from a lock perspective) that could also put out decent damage. One problem is I don't have stealth anymore which I found to be the greatest strength of the druids... I could choose when to fight in BGs and have the initial burst.
4.) Other

Any thoughts?

4 locks + resto druid
5 moonkin
5 feral
... really your most potent options

I think Warlocks are a little overrated, as is just about any multi-clothie team.

You just can't keep people at range in BGs, and once melees infiltrate your group, you're toast.

I'd say stick with your druids!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boylston

I think Warlocks are a little overrated, as is just about any multi-clothie team.

You just can't keep people at range in BGs, and once melees infiltrate your group, you're toast.

I'd say stick with your druids!

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Would 4x Felguards help against the melee that charge in? I imagine they would take care of a rogue fairly easily, but they'd just feed a warriors rage.

the problem is never really 1 rogue or 1 warrior, it's the 3+ melee that get in and all around you that's a nightmare. Warriors will probably be a lock teams worst nightmare with several fear immunity ability's, mortal strike, and whirlwind. Being able to stealth your whole group in a BG can be a huge advantage. Cast from stealth behind a bush or tree or hill and they will be dead before they ever see you. If your feral, they get on you right away. I like the idea of feral, but the positional attack requirements make it useless imo. Also, being ablo to typhoon them off hills and cliffs is a huge thing too. The knockbacks seem to add up so 5 typhoons could easily carry someone 20 to 30 yards off a cliff. And doing it from stealth is nasty, you could probably knock 4 or 5 people off the lumber mill from stealth without problem, or even the bridge in AV, definitely the center of EOTS. lol, and I forgot about fire and forget treants. Also, a good healer can dispell a fear bomb pretty quick sometimes, but if you set up cyclone right (every druid hits tab one more time than the one before) you might be able to clone them and get away and you can't cleanse a clone. Nor do I think they will over write each other, ie, casting 5 cyclones on one dude = one 6 sec clone, casting 5 fears = instant fear immunity for 15 seconds...
your actually making me wanna gear up my 4 druids just to see how it goes lol. I have enough arena points on them to get 5/5 relentless and maybe couple relentless off pieces... course with dual spec costs and such... hmm... i may have found my next project. 5x starfall from stealth with a bunch of allies on the flag would be pretty desctructive. Course, 5 resto druids in warsong gulch carrying flags could probably never be killed.
Don't get me wrong, i love the idea of 5 locks or 4 locks/1druid, I just see so many useful things on druids it's just really hard to say locks would be better.
You should try the 4 pally/1 dk thing at somepoint though. Its hella fun and easy for bad people like me lol. Run around spamming your kill button and sometimes shielding with 50% reduced damage for the rest of your group + smart passive healing. Interact with target makes for full blown hilarity most times, and sometimes some frustration lol.

I have a DK + pally team around 65 or so. They're fun, but not as enjoyable as sniping people with my moonkins. I played my Owltoids for a good 6 months and had lots of fun in AV where I'd just hide and one shot people with 5x starfire. I just eventually got frustrated with arena (due to me sucking and not having a dedicated healer... not sure which was the bigger factor).

I definitely love 5 moonkins, and popping 15 treants on someone guarding a flag in AB, or blowing them off the lumber mill, is good stuff. However, I'm not sure if it's the best team for rated BGs. Having 5 moonkins on a 15 man team really uses up a lot of resources (having 5 of anything does, really) but having less than 5 takes away any chance at bursting people down (moonkins biggest flaw... their burst sucks compared to other classes).

My current thought is 3 locks + 2 resto druids. I'm really looking for a highly survivable team (can survive anything short of a coordinated 5 man arena team). I'd rather have longer battles that I nearly always survive instead of a burst war that I hope I'm standing after.

DK+4xPallies may very well be the next uber-team in terms of survivability. Healing Hands x 4... Could be fantastic...

Druids are going to need to be played strategically making use of stealth to pick good fights and then return to the shadows.

Locks are just too squishy. Pets are nice, but people don't have a hard time closing with anyone. You can freaking mount up and ride into the middle of anyone, really. A whirlwinding warrior will be a huge problem for you.

It was said earlier... it's true. 2-3 melee classes at once will be a real problem for you, even if you tote along your own healer. Most folks don't multibox so they can be beaten in a 3 on 5 situation.

You could try Demon Form, with Soul Link active, use your Immolation Aura and spam either Drain Life or maybe Seed of Corruption.
That would be pretty nasty cleave type damage, against a group of melee near you. Not to mention the Felguard dps too.
Still, caster teams want to maintain range.

And the contest is not your five vs their one - well it is at times...
But, you have to be able to handle at least equal numbers, or what's the point?
And ideally, you'd like your five to be able to take a node defended by ten, or to break a choke point guarded by even more then that.

both warlocks and druids will be AMAZING in AV. You will be able to utterly demolish much larger numbers if you wait and be patient, and catch them in the right spots. You will also have an easy time defending nodes and flags if you choose to in smaller BGs and can easily Ninja almost anything.

I have both at 80 and I really like them both, they are different and both have their challenges and drawbacks, but play the one which appeals to you the most.=)

I have 5 locks and 5 druids teams.

For the locks you need some decent gear to be viable. Heirlooms while leveling and vendor pvp gear when at lvl 80 makes them a team of facerollers.

For my locks the build is demo til Demon form and then affliction.

When a melee infiltrates your group it depends on what it is. If it's a rogue just leave the felguards kill it. If it's a warrior pop demon form and immolation aura and ignore it or fire 5 x death coil to replenish life. If it's a paladin, wait til bubble wears out and then dot it.
For any ranged clothie, just send the felguards. They almost global mages and non disc priests.
The good thing about demon form is that it also grants you an "escape" ability when you are swarmed by melee. Just pop demo form, immo aura and chrage the hunter that is trying to snipe.

The druids are ok if you put one of them as resto and the rest as boomkins. That way you will not need to switch forms to heal and will be able to kill people much better.

Anyways, I like more the locks because they can decimate entire groups very fast by popping demon form + immo aura, chairging in the middle of the enemy group and starting to spam seed of corruption. Usually that kills the entire enemy group in 5 - 6 seconds leaving only one stupid paladin in bubble looking at you for 6 seconds more before going down.
The fact that demo warlocks pets can tank some BG bosses makes it even better. You can solo Galvanar in AV with the locks. You can also solo Drek if all the towers are down or take care of his tanking if two towers are down... usually that makes it a win.
Sending 5 felhunters against a priest, mage or a resto druid is just hilarious. It's worth leveling a locks team only to see that... permanent spell lock and no way to keep a buff up for more than 1 second against 5 pets that you cannot kill because they heal eating your buffs... priceless.
as for using fear, it's a very situational spell when you box locks. When you place 10 dots on someone fear doesnt last more than a second, so it's only good if the atacking team has two healers and you want to kill the healers before killing the rest of the team. I usually just spam seed of corruption and everyone dies with the healers included.

Maybe I'm a little biased, as I have a warlock team, but I agree with Powerwar. Metamorphisis for 600% armor + immolation aura lets you manage melee without to much problems. If you can make one of the fel guards charge/stun a melee at the start of the match, that'll let get the initial advantage to "camp" a melee with immolation aura, while letting your other fel guards take care of another person. If a melee gets in close to attack, popping a healthstone and a death coil should keep you alive long enough to kill them. Another thing warlocks lets you do quick is regroup after an AoE fear. Teleport circles have a 40 yard range, so it makes it easier to manage psychic scream/howl of terror/etc.

I'm surprised Metamorphosis is so strong, but it looks like the clear answer against melee. I was hoping to be able to get Siphon Life as I assume I'd just be putting corruption on everything I see while I run away from whatever is attacking me. However, I see the theorycraft behind 600% additional armor when melee is beating on you. I guess I have 80 levels to figure out which spec, but I'm glad to see the positive reaction towards locks from those who play them.

How many locks can you get away with and still drop folks fast? For example, 4 boomkins is a serious disadvantage compared to 5 due to their lack of burst. 4 shamans isn't really that big of a change from 5 so you don't feel it much. What's the story with locks? Could I get away with 4 locks and be ok? How about 3? I think I'd prefer having at least one resto druid in the group, and possibly two.

Side question: does siphon life work on seed of corruption, or only corruption?

I run 5 locks with no healer. After getting some decent gear they need no healer at all.
I guess you could run ok with 4 locks too, but the fact that warlocks stack really good dps wise makes it better to run the full group.

While you level, for lower brackets use the felguard shield... like x1 - x5 levels. Then switch to felguards when you get them.

There you have my locks build:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...eats+And+Haxes

Here are the reasons I took some talents and didn't take others.

Affliction:
Fel concentration --> I use drain life when needed to heal myself and no warrior or bear druid is around. This helps alot to not lose channeling time on a random toon and get it killed to aoe for example.
Amplify Curse --> castsequence reset=target curse of agony, corruption ... that lays 10 dots on anyone in 2.5 sec... 0.5 sec less than 2 gcd. When you run around tab dotting everything that has red name, that 0.5 sec makes a big difference.

Demonology:
Fel Synergy --> Send your pets in the middle of the enemy raid and seed of corruption someone. In a gcd your pets will be 100% healed. Also helps if you decide to solo the other faction boses in AV.
Master Summoner --> The option to resummon your pets fast and at almost no mana cost is always good.
Demonic empowerment --> red felguards fear nothing. This is basically a priest and mages killer talent.
Metamorphosis --> note the 600% armor + 20% damage reduction besides the soul link reduction + 6% less chance to be crited. With decent gear the damage reduction is very similar to what I get on my protection paladin against melee.

What I didn't take from demonology:
Improved demonic tactics --> It's next to useless with 5 felguards that have about 20% crit chance each one. Also the final bonus at lvl 80 is near 2% extra crit chance... not really worth it for 3 talent points.
Master conjuror --> useless
Molten Core --> That's an instance. Besides that, I yet have to see something live more than 3 seconds with 5 immolates and 5 felguards on it.
Decimation --> 10 instacast dots are enough decimating. also I never use shadow bolt, soul fire or incinerate spells. Instead use curse of agony, corruption and immolation. If I have to stop and take time to cast something, then seed of corruption is always the best choice because it means I am already being swarmed.

The only problem with this build is that you don't have a burst similar to 5 shamans firing lava bursts, so you cannot global disc priests and resto druids. I just burn these with incinerates or immolates. Once you lay all the dots on them they have to choose if they dispell the dots or try to outheal your dps. In both cases they die, but still you cannot dot them and leave them unattended as you would do with practically everything else.

I with with ever one getting a big HP buff and plate classes (non-tanks) having close to the same HP as everyone else. that i i think they said that plate will not stop as much damage as it dose now and cloth and leather and mail well bee seeing a buff. all in all there slowing pvp down by a lot. so i think both druids and lock will be great locks can just dot people up and think any healing you get back will play a bigger part because you will have more time for it to come in.
with druids think they should work because you will not have to switch out and heal as much because you will not be going from full health to 0 in matter of sec. but this is just where i see pvp going from what blizz has said about trying to slow it down. i see teams that can heal being strong teams because you will have a much larger heath pull to play.

just my 2 copper. could be way off

"Slowing down PvP" = Almost certainly bad for stacked ranged DPS classes...

I've got a lower level set, 4x Affliction warlocks and 1x Discipline priest.
Figured a disc priest can be pretty hard to kill, so drive with that toon.

The locks want to stay Affliction, for the dot on the run.
But Shadowfury (round-robin) and Felguards + Immolate Aura are both very tempting.

It will be a while before they level up.
Lots of other stuff going on, first.
Still, quite fun so far.

Against random crap faced during level up.
They have no problem against elites their level.
Blueberry on the mob, priest healing it, and they drop it rather fast.
But that's low level play.

I just spend the last 3 days gearing up my lvl 80 moonkins (only 4 of them, darn RAF thing). They are pretty fun and STARFALL IS OP. Damn that spell is OP, 4 druids aoe face melt with that. Unfortuneatly, once you pop that and typhoon your kinda dead in the water. I mostly just moonfire and chain cast wrath. They are a lot of fun and can totally rape face for 10 seconds every minute which is quite often honestly. They do however really have problems with melee getting in and around them that I have yet to figure out how to deal with.

lol .. starfall .. totally imbalanced at the moment!

forget about taking down the healers first in a bg, go for the moonkins or you are toast.