Rated BG team

Before my raf ends I want to bring up 1 or 2 more sets to 60.
For rated bg's I am really leaning towards classes that do well in BG's currently as a guide cause I don't see the strats changing just better game play.

This is with rated bg's in mind.
Warlocks(dot n run with siphon life and soul link)

Hunters( Ranged with pets, no mana no ammo, cammo and can launch all traps)

Shadow Priests(Mention cause they are a pita to kill as a caster) Im sure they die faster to mele? oh and they have that new group death grip ability for their party/raid

Shaman( new ability cast while moving)

I have mages already they do well in bg's but do get focused on after I kill em all a few times

Everyone has always had good ideas and advice on these forums.

You'll be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't think 4x shamans+ another class (including another shaman) is awesome in BGs.

The biggest fun i had in Alterac with my SPriests

Just Mind Sear is fun without Limits ^^

The dk+ret team is the only one I've found to actually pull its weight consistently in BGs against good players, and a lot more. The shaman can still be shut down pretty easily and if you run into anything more than a 3v4 or 4v4 it's tough. I imagine it'd be even worse with other comps that don't have the advantages of a shaman team. I played warlocks and shadow priests back in bc and yeah melee just tear you in half and you don't have heals

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Originally Posted by heyaz

The dk+ret team is the only one I've found to actually pull its weight consistently in BGs against good players, and a lot more. The shaman can still be shut down pretty easily and if you run into anything more than a 3v4 or 4v4 it's tough. I imagine it'd be even worse with other comps that don't have the advantages of a shaman team. I played warlocks and shadow priests back in bc and yeah melee just tear you in half and you don't have heals

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In your opinion why do you think shamans are doing better in arena than dk-rets? Yet melee are a much more formidable force in BGs. Given the several 2k-2200+ shaman teams and no dk-rets teams minus the mixed melee anomaly.

Is there a longer learning curve?

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

In your opinion why do you think shamans are doing better in arena than dk-rets? Yet melee are a much more formidable force in BGs. Given the several 2k-2200+ shaman teams and no dk-rets teams minus the mixed melee anomaly.

Is there a longer learning curve?

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The melee team, in BG's, immediately forces who you're fighting on the defensive and they get no chance to go on the offensive. You're swarming over their squishies roflstomping people. Lots of people run from me.

The casters, in my experience in BG's, gets swarmed by said other side's melee. You're spending time healing instead of DPS'ing and it's a slow downhill ride from there to wiping.

In arenas as soon as they see my DK+Rets or the melee cleave me and Void are running they have a plan--AE cc the melee and get someone down asap. A good mage can control Dk+Rets really really well--They're not doing much damage but you're doing NO damage. HoF+Dispelling etc works but that's precious cooldowns where you're taking damage and dealing no damage--And that's just a Mage. Add in an Ele Shaman and a Warlock and I can get locked down in no time. With no MS if you don't gib your initial target in <3 seconds they're going to get healed to full and escape.

I guess my conclusion would be that the Dk+Rets work perfectly against uncoordinated groups, even outnumbered 2:1, whereas against a coordinated team they're much more controllable than the casters. Casters seem to be more the opposite to me: It doesn't make much of a difference who you're up against--It's about numbers.

I had HORRIBLE luck with 4 pally and 1 dk in BGs. I like shamans about 100x more. 2 fears and your melee team is screwed. One mage or caster can lock you down forever since you have to be in melee range to attack, it was a nightmare for me. Impossible to chase anyone down.

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Originally Posted by Kicksome

I had HORRIBLE luck with 4 pally and 1 dk in BGs. I like shamans about 100x more. 2 fears and your melee team is screwed. One mage or caster can lock you down forever since you have to be in melee range to attack, it was a nightmare for me. Impossible to chase anyone down.

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I always killed anyone who can fear first. The only times it got really bad is when there were like 7+ people in the BG that could fear. Even in the worst situations I could still take 1-2 people with me.

Same with being outnumbered, taking on twice as many people, if they're uncoordinated you may kill them all. If not, it's rare not to take 2-3 with you before you wipe. I can't say the same about the shaman. Outnumbered.. without EM up or the jump on someone I'll walk away with 0 kills. Coordinated? Forget it, 2 people can shut you down.

A plus for the DK-Ret teams.




Q. What information/ideas can you share on PvP utility in the Retribution tree? Mandatory gap closer/interrupt question. Not having a cleanse will hurt. :\

A. Retribution paladins will be getting an interrupt. http://www.mmo-champion.com/Smileys/classic/smiley.gif

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Originally Posted by heyaz

I always killed anyone who can fear first. .

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How is that possible in a BG. You have to be in melee range to kill someone, a priest has an instant fear, so you get close you get feared. You get shadow furied - all your guys stunned and get feared. I've never been good enough to kill all the threats before they can do their thing will will totally screw you. Because there's usually a couple of those around.

Someone sneaks up behind you or you don't see them, you get feared. You're going to get feared no matter how good you are.

The reason I like shamans is they can stand back and do serious damage before people get to them. When people do get to you, you can put down 5x magmas and you also have thunderstorm, you also have stoneclaw totem absorb, grounding totem etc...

Well, my DK+Rets are all BE so I Death Grip in anyone who can AE fear and AE silence/gib them. If I have to close on them I Strangulate or have my Ghoul Leap/Gnaw them.

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Originally Posted by Kicksome

How is that possible in a BG. You have to be in melee range to kill someone, a priest has an instant fear, so you get close you get feared. You get shadow furied - all your guys stunned and get feared. I've never been good enough to kill all the threats before they can do their thing will will totally screw you. Because there's usually a couple of those around.

Someone sneaks up behind you or you don't see them, you get feared. You're going to get feared no matter how good you are.

The reason I like shamans is they can stand back and do serious damage before people get to them. When people do get to you, you can put down 5x magmas and you also have thunderstorm, you also have stoneclaw totem absorb, grounding totem etc...

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death grip + strangulate/hammer of justice/arcane torrent. They're dead before they could fear. You can also hand of freedom out of shadowfury. If there are several casters around once I'm in melee range I might rotate torrents to shut as many down as I can.

You can get out of 2 fear bombs instantly. Maybe even 3 if you can cleanse. If you haven't killed anything by then, something's wrong.

I am finishing to level my 5 warlocks team. In BGs they have some considerable advantages and disadvantages compared to 5 shamans.

Mines are demo + affliction spec.

Advantages of 5 locks:

1 ) Demon form + immolation aura will destroy any melee group that tries to swarm you. This happens relatively often.
2 ) You have instacast dots on the run from 36 yards range. You can just run around and tab dot everything.
3 ) Felguards + demonic empowerment kill anything with cloth or leather in seconds and are immune to CC... I love mages or priest trying to stop them.
4 ) You see warriors, DKs and paladins as walking heal pots.
5 ) Extremely good mobility.
6 ) Shadow guard spell that will absorb lots of damage against other locks and priests.

Disadvantages:

1 ) No healing spell, so you will die more than with your shamans.
2 ) No tremor totem. Roll them human or undead and save the trinket with the racial.
3 ) No grounding totem. If you are swarmed by lots of well organized casters you are doomed. Fortunately there are not many such casters and usually they run around like headless chickens while dots eat them.


Other than that, I find the warlocks much more fun to play in pvp.

I gotta asked if its fair to compare 1dk+4rets to 4 elemental shaman? Unless you are including a healer with the shaman it just seems unfair to quad shamans alone.

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

I gotta asked if its fair to compare 1dk+4rets to 4 elemental shaman? Unless you are including a healer with the shaman it just seems unfair to quad shamans alone.

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My setup includes a healer. 4x ele and 1 healer.

For the rets and dk. The problem I saw was if 5 guys attacked you and they were all spread out...

So you'd have to chase all the guys down - who were all spread out, who could all run just as fast as you. You only had a DG that you could use like 1 time every 20 seconds. So I spent most of my time chasing down people who'd end up kiting me. While I was chasing down 1 person, I'd have 4 others all range attacking my guys (While I did no damage). I'd also get frost nova'd, frost trap, slowing poison etc... while being chased so 1 or more of my guys were at a crawl. Like I said, 1 good mage could lock me down forever. He could blink out of deathgrip and iceblock stuns and blink out. If I did everything perfectly, I might be able to kill that mage, but that didn't stop the other 4 ranged from ripping me apart.

It's possible that 1dk and 4rets are just too complex for me to play, or I did something totally wrong. I did love them in PVE though, a lot faster to do heroics.

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Originally Posted by Kicksome

My setup includes a healer. 4x ele and 1 healer.

For the rets and dk. The problem I saw was if 5 guys attacked you and they were all spread out...

So you'd have to chase all the guys down - who were all spread out, who could all run just as fast as you. You only had a DG that you could use like 1 time every 20 seconds. So I spent most of my time chasing down people who'd end up kiting me. While I was chasing down 1 person, I'd have 4 others all range attacking my guys (While I did no damage). I'd also get frost nova'd, frost trap, slowing poison etc... while being chased so 1 or more of my guys were at a crawl. Like I said, 1 good mage could lock me down forever. He could blink out of deathgrip and iceblock stuns and blink out. If I did everything perfectly, I might be able to kill that mage, but that didn't stop the other 4 ranged from ripping me apart.

It's possible that 1dk and 4rets are just too complex for me to play, or I did something totally wrong. I did love them in PVE though, a lot faster to do heroics.

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Good stuff.

Been a while since I have run quad shaman with or without healer. I usually run DK-2/3 healers in BGs or Protret-2/3healers. I sometime run DK-3healers-UA lock so my dk stuff doesnt get dispelled. I have all 4 healers types geared so I mix and match alot.

I expect a lot from my 2 'new' teams:

4 ele + 1 resto shammy
1 ret + 3 dk + priest healer

Currently have prot pally + 3 ele + 1 resto and they do fairly good in AV (the only BG i play). 9 out of 10 they attack the prot pally who can take shitloads of damage.

But the little pvp i've done with the 3 dk's + priest ... it's just amazing. Adding the ret once they are 80 will only make it better.

And 5 shammies (1 healer) with instant ghost wolf is awesome in BG's.

Comment:

Won't rated bg's be a lot more coordinated than a standard bg ATM ?

I am def following this thread. Wanted to have something else going into the xpac. I started a 4 rogue team, but I think I want a 1 dk 3 ret as well.

So in standard pug bg's atm, I am sure any quad team wrecks shop.

Has any multiboxer played with a premade vs premade in bgs? How'd it go?

For the most part, when playing premade vs premade, one of the two will leave.

On my server, most of the premades are formed server side.
So if we see 12+ players from the same server, we'll take the other queue as soon as it pops.
Assuming they haven't done the same.

It will be interesting to experience premade vs premade.

They've said the largest group you'll be able to queue together as, is a 5-man.
But that you'll have to opt into a rated game, and will require as many players as the battleground has on a side to enter.
Not really sure if that means, an interface where you get 2/3/5 individual groups placed together kind of like a random dungeon, or if you queue as a raid.

I don't see the coordination being anything like arena.
But probably much better then is currently the norm in battlegrounds.
Probably about as good as the current premades, which range from groups who run together regularly... to a raid leader who will just call out G1 to wherever, as the battle progresses.

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Originally Posted by Ualaa

For the most part, when playing premade vs premade, one of the two will leave.

On my server, most of the premades are formed server side.
So if we see 12+ players from the same server, we'll take the other queue as soon as it pops.
Assuming they haven't done the same.

It will be interesting to experience premade vs premade.

They've said the largest group you'll be able to queue together as, is a 5-man.
But that you'll have to opt into a rated game, and will require as many players as the battleground has on a side to enter.
Not really sure if that means, an interface where you get 2/3/5 individual groups placed together kind of like a random dungeon, or if you queue as a raid.

I don't see the coordination being anything like arena.
But probably much better then is currently the norm in battlegrounds.
Probably about as good as the current premades, which range from groups who run together regularly... to a raid leader who will just call out G1 to wherever, as the battle progresses.

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This is one of the problems I forsee in rated BGs. A long time go when premades first came out and when wsg and 4+ hour AVs were the only things going most servers made WSG premade teams for the people grinding HW/GM. If we went up against the other premade on the server we alternated afking out to maximize honor for both sides. The problem is when you have everyone that know what they are doing it becomes a stalemate. I cant imagine high rated BGs being anything other than a stalemate or atleast a long drawn out game.

I think most higher rated arena members know this and will stick with arena except for the occasional games. However, I see this hurting 5v5. There are not that many games going anyways and I would think most casual players/guilds would choose to pug rated BGs instead of 5v5.

5v5 is already dying .. it is #7000 2er & #5000 3er versus #400 5er teams in a pool

the simple reason.. why all the stress from fighting 5v5 if you can get the same items from much easier 3v3.
next step.. why pvp if you can get everything easier, faster and higher itemlevels from (current) pve.
we all know that wow is an item game, if blizzard don't start to hand out better stuff via pvp, there won't be much rated bgs going on.

They did say you'll be able to get the best pvp gear from rated battlegrounds.
I'd tend to think rated BG's or Arena, either way will get you arena points.

And PvP gear or PvE gear is the same item level, so similar potency but just a different prioritization of stat points.

The idea behind rated BGs is to be able to offer the best PvP rewards through both Arenas or BGs. If you love BGs but don't like Arenas, you can still get great rewards. If you love Arenas, hopefully the experience will be even better for you because the guys who don't like Arenas will be off doing something else. If you like both Arenas and BGs, great, you have more choices in what you do that week. If you like PvP but still lose a lot, yes you're still going to be a season behind the guys who win a lot. We'll reward you gear just for participating, but if you want th best gear, you still need to win

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...ageNo=17&sid=1

sry you got me wrong, it's not about the best pvp gear available ;-)

if pvp was gear was really on the same level there would be much more pvp going on.
"sry not with pvp gear" .. you get this a lot.
also you can buy pvp items via pve but not ice versa.