Paladin, 2 Warlocks, a Mage, and a Druid

Hey there! This is my last "i'm a nub and need help" thread, promise. ;-)
Also, this thread is a tad long, so if you want me to cut to the chase, I summarized it in a few sentences at the end.

Anyways, as the title implies, I'm attempting to skip 2,3, and 4 boxing. I understand the complexities of what I will be attempting, and that I'll be facing a huge learning curve, but that's what I'm all about!

My goal is to be able to, after enough work, "solo" 5-man dungeons

I picked the paladin for a tank because it requires the least amount of, well, work... I have a level 32 Pally, and all I do is run in with ret aura, BoSantuary (at 30), and consecrate... Thorns from the druid will help. I just let him get some nice aggro, and consecrate when needed...

Druid for healing because of the heavy HoTs. I can throw 'em all on and I won't need to focus as much on it.

Warlocks for DPS because of all the DoTs. The lesns work I have to do the better.

I look at this as more controlling 3 characters, not 5, as the warlocks are all the same... And now I'm basically un-wipable after 20, and especially 30.

At 20 I get 3 soulstones to share between 2 healers. I get my Brez, too. If pally dies first, and I can't live, I Brez him, wait for the wipe, and accept after. If pally dies last I bubble + run. Basically, I'm all covered...

I contemplated having a mage for free food and water, but, oh well. If these guys ever hit 40, I have one waiting (that'll take some work to integrate, mind you).

I'm throwing this out on the forum just to see if anyone has any ideas, mods, comments, or insights they wish to share, I know you're all friendly like that! =D


Summary: I wanna run a Paladin tank, Druid healer, and 3 warlock combo for reasons stated above. I'm aware of the harsh learning curve. If you have any ideas, mods, comments, or insights you'd wish to share, thanks! =)

Thanks for reading!
-MBlooksfun!

Well, just one tip. Don't share your SS over both healers, just SS the Paladin....that way you have 3 consecutive wipe recoveries (as opposed to sharing on both, you only have 1 wipe recovery).

It seems like a good setup, although I don't know if only HoTs will work for Heroics, you'll probably need to focus a bit more on healing at that point, but again, never done it solo, so dunno.

Good luck with it.

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Originally Posted by Squiggoth

Well, just one tip. Don't share your SS over both healers, just SS the Paladin....that way you have 3 consecutive wipe recoveries (as opposed to sharing on both, you only have 1 wipe recovery).

It seems like a good setup, although I don't know if only HoTs will work for Heroics, you'll probably need to focus a bit more on healing at that point, but again, never done it solo, so dunno.

Good luck with it.

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Yeah, I have an epic priest waiting at 70... If I ever get to heroics, which I doubt is in the foreseeable future, I have other possibilities. But yeah, good idea with soulstones.

thanks for your input. =)

How do you see your typical 3 or 4 mob trash pulls going?
How do you see your boss fights going?

Are you thinking of DoTing up all the mobs being tanked in which case you need really good planning to deal with runners?

Maybe DoT a single target up, Lifetap and then Drain Life combo to be as mana efficient as possible on trash. For bosses DoTs and Shadowbolt spam with Lifetap and Drain Life when low on mana.

3x warlock Hellfire will be insane.

Also, be careful with CoA, it is a waste of mana on trash usually.

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Originally Posted by thinus

How do you see your typical 3 or 4 mob trash pulls going?
How do you see your boss fights going?

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Pally runs in (with or without HoTs already on him depends on future.. trial), drops a consecration... I then burn down mobs 1 by one.. probably immolating then shadowbolting to death... i'll see how it goes

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Maybe DoT a single target up, Lifetap and then Drain Life combo to be as mana efficient as possible on trash. For bosses DoTs and Shadowbolt spam with Lifetap and Drain Life when low on mana.

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definitely something i plan on trying.

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3x warlock Hellfire will be insane.

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+Tranquility!

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Also, be careful with CoA, it is a waste of mana on trash usually.

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noted, thanks. =)

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Originally Posted by MBlooksfun

Pally runs in (with or without HoTs already on him depends on future.. trial), drops a consecration... I then burn down mobs 1 by one.. probably immolating then shadowbolting to death... i'll see how it goes

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From my experience with a warlock and a frost mage in my group I can tell you that the frost mage just frostbolt spams and tops dps on trash but it is a lot closer between the warlock and the mage on boss fights.

Also, the mana efficiency of the frost mage is insane compared to the warlock. If you know you are in for a long fight you can make a mana gem with the mage, evocate back up and be ready to go.

With warlocks you will need a Lifetap with some kind of healing strategy for long fights. Shadowbolt spam chews through your mana like you won't believe.

When I solo leveled a warlock a long time ago I always went for "... of the Eagle" gear for the stamina as it was easy to Lifetap every now and then and using Corr, Immo, Wand for grinding initially and later on drain tanking with the Succy where I would send the Succy in, put my DoTs on and start Drain Lifing soon as I got aggro. Almost zero downtime.

Running instances almost exclusively is a completely different playstyle for a warlock though. The mage really shines as all it does is Frostbolt spam and with the right talents it is extremely efficient. I usually only have to Evocate after a wipe recovery or a tough boss fight.

With the warlock I run OOM all the time. After two groups of trash I usually Lifetap 4 or 5 times and heal the warlock to full. Waiting for the GCD timer is annoying though. Not a big thing but annoying and it slows you down slightly. I also prefer to give the warlock a big heal out of combat rather than go into combat with a HoT ticking on the warlock.

Also on accidental aggro from a runner or pats where you are still fighting other trash expect to be OOM with the warlocks quickly. I find it a bit of a pain to deal with mana issues while at the same time trying to tank and keep all the mobs on the pally while chain healing and trying to DPS enough of them down to stabilize the situation.

Also, with frostbolt spam I get an automatic snare on the mob and I very seldom have problems with runners. You will need either a Curse of Recklessness or a Judgement of Justice on every mob to be safe.

I started to give my warlock a lot more spirit gear and I am ignoring stamina gear for now prefering to have passive mana regen.

But I would really suggest you replace one of the Warlocks with a Frost Mage just for ports and Frostbolt snares. The mage is also really easy to macro for DPS as you just spam Frostbolts with maybe a Fireblast thrown in as a finisher.

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In closing: with 3x warlocks I think your biggest challenges will be dealing with runners and mana management. Up to 60 anyway. I don't know warlocks very well past 60 as I played mine a long long time ago when MC and BWL was all the rage.

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Originally Posted by thinus

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wow. thanks for all the insight, i guess i should seriously consider using mages instead of warlocks, at least for instancing!

-MB

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Originally Posted by MBlooksfun

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Originally Posted by thinus

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wow. thanks for all the insight, i guess i should seriously using mages instead of warlocks, at least for instancing!

-MB

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Don't get me wrong, I love warlocks. They do need a little more love than mages in a normal tank-heal-dps group though. Personally I wouldn't go with 3x mages or 3x warlocks but rather 1x mage 2x warlocks or 2x mage 1x warlock.

Need to pick up a quest for RFK in UC when you just finished running RFK? No problem, mage ports, gets quest, warlock summons and off you go.

Ran out of reagents during an instance run? Mage ports, warlock summons.

Yes, your macroing will be a little trickier but honestly, it is not that big a deal. I have 2 DPS buttons, one of them the mage frostbolts and the warlock castsequence DoTs, the other button the mage frostbolts and the warlock shadowbolts.

Oh yeah,

1 more reason to seriously consider having a mage...

...Remove Lesser Curse

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Originally Posted by thinus

Oh yeah,

1 more reason to seriously consider having a mage...

...Remove Lesser Curse

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heheh... tru dat...

anyways, 1 last question (that I can think of thus far! =D)

Do I port my druid to the human starting area to start off with my human mages + paladin? it seems like the logical thing to do... then at 10 and 14 I can go back to do the druid quests... eh?

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Originally Posted by thinus

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Originally Posted by MBlooksfun

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Originally Posted by thinus

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wow. thanks for all the insight, i guess i should seriously using mages instead of warlocks, at least for instancing!

-MB

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Don't get me wrong, I love warlocks. They do need a little more love than mages in a normal tank-heal-dps group though. Personally I wouldn't go with 3x mages or 3x warlocks but rather 1x mage 2x warlocks or 2x mage 1x warlock.

Need to pick up a quest for RFK in UC when you just finished running RFK? No problem, mage ports, gets quest, warlock summons and off you go.

Ran out of reagents during an instance run? Mage ports, warlock summons.

Yes, your macroing will be a little trickier but honestly, it is not that big a deal. I have 2 DPS buttons, one of them the mage frostbolts and the warlock castsequence DoTs, the other button the mage frostbolts and the warlock shadowbolts.

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Hmm.. You raise some good points here... So I guess if I do a 2 warlock 1 mage combo, or the other way around, there are pros/cons to both, I'll probably only be using a few attacks from each class, no?

also, just thinking out loud here... 2 warlocks is probably better because then I'd get 2 soulstones, 2x the DoTs, and 2x the pets... O.o more CC or offtanks.

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Originally Posted by MBlooksfun

Hmm.. You raise some good points here... So I guess if I do a 2 warlock 1 mage combo, or the other way around, there are pros/cons to both, I'll probably only be using a few attacks from each class, no?

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Correct. Possibly when you hit Outlands, but definitely for Heroics, you would need to start optimizing your DPS cycles as the fights get pretty tough especially in non-raid gear. Utility comes into play and you need to take advantage of more and more of the abilities of each of your characters.

For leveling your macroing can be pretty rough and still get the job done easily.

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also, just thinking out loud here... 2 warlocks is probably better because then I'd get 2 soulstones, 2x the DoTs, and 2x the pets... O.o more CC or offtanks.

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I am level 55 now and I have never Polymorphed or Seduced anything. I think I banished an elemental once, or tried to and it was immune. Stupid Blazing Fireguards in BRD.

I think additional CC is just a luxury. 1x Polymorph and 1x Banish should be sufficient for all the 5-mans. Can't remember if there are any heroics needing a Shackle.

The 2 soulstones are really great though. Just pull to safe spots with the pally. Having to run back after a wipe really sucks, especially in huge instances where it takes you 5 mins to get to the instance and another 5 mins to navigate back to where you were.

Hmm.. So i think i'm set on the idea of a pally tank, 2 warlocks, a mage (for portals, water, and snares) and a druid healer..

Here are a few other ideas I've head recently...

I have two 19" monitors... so...

Left monitor = Druid

Left half of right monitor is evenly split into the three dps, probably mage on top, warlocks beneath... with the paladin tank taking up teh right oalf of the right monitor.. something like this...

http://i18.tinypic.com/6jm12dl.jpg

I would suggest the Pally fullscreen on your main monitor and splitting the 2nd monitor into 4 equal sized windows.

Ideally you will be controlling all your fights from the Pally point of view. Controlling a melee character from your healer point of view will just lead to drug abuse and an early grave.

You will want to macro your healing so you don't have to look at the druid window at all.

In combat you want to try and control everything from your main point of view.

You will still need to click in all 4 clone windows to loot items or talk to NPCs or use your bank and vendors etc. So making one bigger than the others is not really beneficial.

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Originally Posted by thinus

I would suggest the Pally fullscreen on your main monitor and splitting the 2nd monitor into 4 equal sized windows.

Ideally you will be controlling all your fights from the Pally point of view. Controlling a melee character from your healer point of view will just lead to drug abuse and an early grave.

You will want to macro your healing so you don't have to look at the druid window at all.

In combat you want to try and control everything from your main point of view.

You will still need to click in all 4 clone windows to loot items or talk to NPCs or use your bank and vendors etc. So making one bigger than the others is not really beneficial.

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first of all i'll say I really appreciate this conversation, you can't imagine (or maybe you can!) how much this has changed and adapted my plan.

second, to the points at hand. I thought of going from the resto druid point of view because he'll probably be the one in the back, and keeping everyone healed is of utmost important, although, now that i think about it, healing without looking is kind of second nature to me at this point...

I didn't wanna go from the pally perspective because then i'd have to scroll out way back to see everything ( but i guess i can just look over at teh other screen...

also, splitting the screens like i did was just because the tank was more important than the DPS, and getting a little bigger picture on him seemed... ideal... but now that i think about it, I'll probably just end up with either black bars above and below, or stretching horrible vertically, since they'll all have the same width, so I might as well just do 4.. =\

oh well,
thanks for the input, like i said, you've been a big help!! =D

No problem.

Why do you want to see your group btw?

When I am worried about pats or losing aggro I try and position my tank so the tank is looking towards the group with the mobs between the tank and the group.

This way it is very easy to see if one peels off to go hassle the group or if you get a pat add. It is not a big deal though. After a few instance runs you will almost know sub-consciously when you are likely to lose aggro.

You can also get mods that flash the entire window red when you get hit. Even if you are really focused on your tanking you are definitely going to notice a HUGE BIG RED FLASH coming from the 2nd screen.

Omen threat meter has a visual indicator like that when your threat is within 90% of whoever is top of the threat meter. I suppose it has a way to assign a MT but I haven't played with it too much though.

Mostly I tank by feel and only on tough pulls where I have to chain heal do I really need to worry about losing aggro. Even then, losing aggro is sometimes a good thing as it gives that little 1 second breathing room where no one is getting hit and the priest can get a Fade off with the GCD and resume chain healing without the tank going down.

Yeah, I use Omen, and it's a good idea to use it in this new group.. Didn't even think about that. I suppose wanting to see my group was just a .. I dunno.. mental thing...

Anyways, I have a G15 Keyboard, so I'm thinking about setting up those G keys for different characters, such as 1-6 for party-wide stuff such as THE BIG BUTTON and stuff, G7-12 for say, healing, and G13-18 for DPS, as, if you see how they're grouped, that might work nicely.

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Originally Posted by MBlooksfun

Yeah, I use Omen, and it's a good idea to use it in this new group.. Didn't even think about that. I suppose wanting to see my group was just a .. I dunno.. mental thing...

Anyways, I have a G15 Keyboard, so I'm thinking about setting up those G keys for different characters, such as 1-6 for party-wide stuff such as THE BIG BUTTON and stuff, G7-12 for say, healing, and G13-18 for DPS, as, if you see how they're grouped, that might work nicely.

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I'd suggest you bind stuff like the BIG BUTTON to difficult key combinations and save the single keys for combat critical stuff.

Ie, CTRL F12 for the BIG BUTTON.

Party wide stuff you might want to think about are stuff like a Cure button for each character. The pally will cleanse and the mage will remove curse on the character. Heal for each character.

A SAVE ME! button for each character, probably Blessing of Protection. I don't know druids too well so not sure if they have emergency tools like priest bubble for instance.

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Originally Posted by thinus

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Originally Posted by MBlooksfun

Yeah, I use Omen, and it's a good idea to use it in this new group.. Didn't even think about that. I suppose wanting to see my group was just a .. I dunno.. mental thing...

Anyways, I have a G15 Keyboard, so I'm thinking about setting up those G keys for different characters, such as 1-6 for party-wide stuff such as THE BIG BUTTON and stuff, G7-12 for say, healing, and G13-18 for DPS, as, if you see how they're grouped, that might work nicely.

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I'd suggest you bind stuff like the BIG BUTTON to difficult key combinations and save the single keys for combat critical stuff.

Ie, CTRL F12 for the BIG BUTTON.

Party wide stuff you might want to think about are stuff like a Cure button for each character. The pally will cleanse and the mage will remove curse on the character. Heal for each character.

A SAVE ME! button for each character, probably Blessing of Protection. I don't know druids too well so not sure if they have emergency tools like priest bubble for instance.

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Hmm.. Some good points there.. what about something like this...

SAVE ME - G1, G2, G4, and G5 target different party members... G3 is bubble and G6 is the paladin's draw-aggro command, don't recall what it's called... I can do the same with G7-12 for healing and targeting, i suppose... maybe 1-0 as a my dps attacks at this point? Idk yet.. I'm sure what I do will evolve as more spells and abilities are added to my arsenal.

edit: maybe i set different M sets for each character (set)? Do you have a G15? I don't want to explain too much/little...

Not sure about the layout of the G keys. I am using a standard 101 keyboard. Important thing is to put those emergency keys out of the way but easy to reach.

Your normal tanking, healing, dpsing keys will be used most often and should be under your fingers all the time.

Your pally taunt is Righteous Defense and is cast on a friendly target. There is a good macro for it that will cast it on your target if you have a friendly targeted or on your targettarget if you have a baddie targeted.

I am thinking of combining my Blessing of Protection with my Taunt so if the Taunt is still on CD I BoP instead.

The curing buttons are the same as the emergency buttons, out of the way but easily accessible.

I think the G15 has rows of 6 keys? If it is 6 in a row it makes it really good for character specific things as you can use 1-5 for your character specific macros and then use the 6th one to do the same thing but to your current target. Allows curing of pets or drive by saving people.

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Originally Posted by thinus

Not sure about the layout of the G keys. I am using a standard 101 keyboard. Important thing is to put those emergency keys out of the way but easy to reach.

Your normal tanking, healing, dpsing keys will be used most often and should be under your fingers all the time.

Your pally taunt is Righteous Defense and is cast on a friendly target. There is a good macro for it that will cast it on your target if you have a friendly targeted or on your targettarget if you have a baddie targeted.

I am thinking of combining my Blessing of Protection with my Taunt so if the Taunt is still on CD I BoP instead.

The curing buttons are the same as the emergency buttons, out of the way but easily accessible.

I think the G15 has rows of 6 keys? If it is 6 in a row it makes it really good for character specific things as you can use 1-5 for your character specific macros and then use the 6th one to do the same thing but to your current target. Allows curing of pets or drive by saving people.

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set up like this...

M1 M2 M3

G1---G2---G3
G4---G5---G6

G7---G8---G9
G10-G11-G12

G13-G14-G15
G16-G17-G18

Pressing M1 will give the G buttons their m1 Macros.. pressing m2 will give them the macro's you've set up for M2... basically swapping out the G keys 3 ways... plenty of extra keys.