In my opinion, AHK is illegal.

I just had a conversation with a GM who told me that dual boxing is legal, but when I asked "one thing I couldnt get a clear answer on from the forums is about a 3rd party program. If you run two instances of WoW on the same computer (both seperate and valid accounts) in windowed mode with 1 window being active and the other in the background, the third party program can send keystrokes to the window in the background without switching from the main window. Is that against any rules?"

His response: "Using a third party progam to automatically perform actions would be a violation"

I explained further "If it isn't automatically making a character do multiple actions or both characters automatically doing synchronized actions, but simply 1 button making 1 character perform a single action, would it be legal if used in that way?"

"What you described would be a violation. However, using an alternative-input device such as voice activation would not be a violation so long as the action did not perform multiple keystrokes."

Screenshots of the conversation are available if requested, but its late and i'm too lazy to get them hosted right now.

Anyways, it seems like the problem with AHK is that it duplicates a keystroke and sends it to both clients, even if the keystroke doesn't actually do anything on one of the clients, it is still turning 1 keystroke into multiple keystrokes.

The way around this would be to somehow make AHK only send the keystroke to the background window and not to both. Is this possible? And if not, how else can you legally control two characters on one monitor? I have heard of people programming macros that alt tab to the other window, do desired action, then alt tab back. I dont know much about macros and key binding, but all I have is my regular laptop keyboard (laptop can run two clients of WoW, it has 2gb ram, duo core processor, and good enough video card) and an external USB numeric keypad. Is there some way to bind alt tab macros to the keypad (it isnt like a gaming pad with programmable buttons).

Hopefully there is a way to program AHK so that it doesnt duplicate the keystroke on both clients, but only sends it to the background client. If there isnt, i would appreciate any advice on the other ways to control both characters.

Quote:

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"Using a third party progam to automatically perform actions would be a violation"

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Pretty sure this is more targeted towards a program like Wowglider - that actually controls movement and plays your character for you - than AHK. So, the sky isn't falling. You still have to tell the client to DO things. Sure, it might be creatively setup, but still. Nothing happens until you trigger it.

I do everything in hardware, read my FAQ, its stickied.

Hardware costs money, and I would rather not spend it since I never plan on going past dual-boxing so it doesnt seem necessary. From looking at the information on autohotkey's website it looks like it is possible to make the main window ignore a keystroke and simply send it to the background window. So for the people experienced at writing code for autohotkey, what would the code look like if you wanted to send the F1 key to the background window only?

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/245/wownu4.png

If you are going to change my topics title, how about something accurate?

"GM confirms AHK is illegal if used a certain way." would be better.

This is quite hillarious. AHK, a software that sends input to the other client without "performing multiple keystrokes," is illegal yet "an alternative-input device - such as voice activation" is perfectly legit.

Dude GM, get your ish straight sir.

Its been noted on this website and the AHK website that AHK could be used to the extent that it is illegal. Just don't use it that way.

People can change the argument so that AHK or even hardware based setups to multi-box are against the TOS of WoW. WoW TOS is so global that it's silly, they can ban you for no reason at all.

How many people do you know that use a G15, Nostromo or other type of hardware? According to the ToS they should all be banned. Blizz isn't going to do that. I'm willing to bet more then 30% of the player base uses these items. These are all considered third party software.

Using AHK to send 1 to three different windows still involves you pushing that 1 key. It requires you to be at the computer and in control.

To answer your AHK question though, you can specify that certain keystrokes only goto a certain wow instance.

[code:1]0::
KeyWait, 0, D
ControlSend,, 0 , ahk_id %wowid2%

Return[/code:1]

The code above would only send the keystroke to your second wow instance.

According to your argument though, you can't even do this. You are using a third party program to aid you.

Tech249, you're so money.

Just like to clear up that that it is not my opinion that AHK is illegal as long as you only use each button to do a single action on a single character. Some moderator changed the topic of my post without fully understanding what i was saying. What i am saying is that by what the GM told me about what is and isn't a violation, using a third party program to duplicate one keystroke to make 3 mages automatically cast fireball at the same time would be cheating. Sure you had to manually press the one key, but according to the GM's statement thats like saying botting is legal because you had to manually download, install, and activate the bot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Formulaone

Sure you had to manually press the one key, but according to the GM's statement thats like saying botting is legal because you had to manually download, install, and activate the bot.

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Sorry bro - but that analogy is like so farfetched. But to each his own. I guess playing World of Warcraft is botting too because i have to download the software then install, then activate.

Botting is illegal because it functions independently. IT DOES NOT INVOLVE ANY USER INTERVENTION. While AHK (or a multiplier) will not fire, or cast any spell, unless you press a button - hence the CONTROL is not automated.

I dunno man - for some reason, it's as clear as night and day to me. But of course, I respect your choice not to use AHK.

The main thing, im, is that you're sat there at your keyboard, sending commands/instructions, and it's not automated 3rd party software.

If they don't detect you're using delays and auto-mated commands, and if they contact you in-game and ur there to reply, can they prove it? So you had the program running "I was working on photoshop/other software with it"

They can ban you for anything or nothing though...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Formulaone

Hopefully there is a way to program AHK so that it doesnt duplicate the keystroke on both clients, but only sends it to the background client. If there isnt, i would appreciate any advice on the other ways to control both characters.

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For what it's worth - this is how I use AHK on my priest. Keystrokes on the numberpad are only sent to the Priest WoW Client window.

My regular 1 to = keys are not sent to the 2nd client because my paladin presses a myriad of these keys to maintain agro and what have you. AHK on my set up is only sent to the 2nd client window.

However, I don't understand how being sent to one or both is any different. You're point was that it's illegal because it's automatically sent to another window without you having to go to that window. :roll:

Eitherway dude, if you are going to get banned because of AHK, they're not going to check whether you are only sending it to one window or both -they'll just check whether you have AHK running and bam! :twisted:

Ok so in summary:

I realize that this is just one GM's response, and that he may or may not know what he is talking about. It seems contradictory that voice-activation inputs are ok but AHK duplicating keystrokes to both instances of WoW isnt. It also seems contradictory that using one keystroke to perform the actions of multiple keystrokes is illegal, yet you can do this with the in-game macro system which certainly isnt illegal. So take it for what its worth. If you have been using AHK for a while without any issues from GM's, or you've had a GM tell you something different, more power to you. Personally I will continue to use AHK in the way that I believe is safe from being a violation. I made this post because I have seen several people who are interested in dual boxing asking if there has been any statements made by blues or GMs, because they are unsure if they want to take the risk of getting banned. This is just the information I got from one GM, think whatever you want about it and make your own decision.

I do not use AHK but I know the real truth about the software and how it works. I’m on the same page with everyone else that it should be allowed. I decided to go with the hardware route for my 5 box setup. I’ll share with you my thinking on it.

Keyboard Multiplier – You are sending the command via keyboard/hardware.
This method has been tried and tested against the TOS and has been approved.

AHK – Software is relaying your command via software.
I haven’t seen much information about it.

I thought sending software commands to the wow client will most likely be frowned upon. Regardless of how harmless it is and what you’re using it for. As strict as Blizzard is, I doubt they are going to allow any exceptions. All they will look at is software interacting with the client, point the finger at me and ban me. Sure that may never be the case, but that’s just the way I feel.

At least thus far nothing has been said or done against AHK users, that’s a good sign. But it’s a concern, I just have this feeling.

Simple as this: If you breathe oxygen or any other gas, liquid, solid or plasma-type substance, they can ban you. Only way you can avoid being banned is to either buy up 51% of the Blizzard stocks, or simply not play the game.

Now as for this GM, what you must realise is that this guy cannot tell you anything but pre-written statements when asked a question like that, which are hard to write for a program like AHK. On one side they've got thousands of dualboxers paying extra who'd probably stop doing so if they went out and stated clearly that it was illegal, on the other side you've got a program with botting-potential which you wouldn't want to say was perfectly alright, so they make up some general stuff and throw that at ya.

Chance of Blizzard actively hunting down AHK users is very small, but it's there. It's simply a matter of weighing the profits on dualboxers using it against the loss on ppl leaving the game after being owned by those dualboxers, the boss's moode, and how often it's used for botting. With some luck they'll make an option in the game to run 2 windows with shared keys before banning AHK.

I'm fairly new to these forums but I think these questions are rather amazing. If you use *any* 3rd party program then there is a chance that you will be banned. Although it may be unlikely or less likely that AHK users will get banned on there first offense vs MMO Glider are banned on their first occurrence. If you do not use 3rd party software your chance is zero for getting banned for it but when you use any 3rd party product then your chance is > 0.

From reading your screen shots the GM gave you a fairly clear answer. "What you described would be a violation." The reason being is they don't mind the guy that alt-tabs and presses keystrokes on one pc or that has two keyboards because he's pressing every key. Since AHK automates the process of changing windows and sending keystrokes then you are taking a risk every time you use it (although it might be a low risk).

The problem with AHK is that the entire program is designed to "automate" keystrokes, mouse movements, and other such things. There were several banning on the mmo glider forums based on people that were running AHK bots because it is powerful enough to allow that.

The hardware solutions are better and more of a grey area because there is no 3rd party software involved. Software no matter how well written is detectable in some way. Check the mmo glider forums and you'll see proof that it both happens and it tends to happen in waves. They update warden, some people get banned, then they update mmo glider, rinse... recycle.. repeat... 3rd party software is a running process and you can only hide it so many ways and that process is a continuous chase. My point isn't whether or not Blizzard can detect what type of keyboard that you use but to the OS it is just a keystroke vs a program that fires off the keystroke or a series of keystrokes.

First rule of thumb when dealing with ANY GM....

They are IDIOTS who are paid the lowest wage possible to answer the dumbest questions that blizzard can get away with off a script.

Case and point: A friend was using one of his three accounts to sell gold he farmed with the other two. His accounts (all three) were banned. He appealed it daily until his main account was unbanned.

Case and Point # 2: My guild name was changed 8 months ago. The change bugged and locked over half the guild into a bugged guild. The reason for the change was unclear and through each appeal I was simply told that the decision wouldn't be reversed. Yesterday my monthly appeal was granted and they reversed the name change. The same bug locked half my guild into a bugged guild this time as well.

Blizzard programs their GM's to tell you any 3rd party application is a violation. Voice command could be used to write a bot, and then it would be bannable... AutoIT can be, and oddly enough AutoHotKey has some roots in AutoIT unless I'm mistaken (It's window spy is the same as AutoIT's)...

That said, the G15 keyboard can write macro's that repeat actions... I used a quick and dirty macro on my G15 to grind 2h axes to 350... and yea, I could have been banned for that....