Random decrease in Dps with T9

Ok, so it runs like this. im using the macros Furspere posted in his thread running a pala + 4 shammy team
now, pre last patch in my 2t8 and rest ofset peices i was pulling about 4.3k ish dps on spank and tank bosses.
Now, ive pretty much gear saturated myself again. (4 parts t9+ offspet pieces) but whats this i find, my dps is dropping to a 3.3k on spank and tank bosses. Ive tried tweaking the timing on the click macros to no avail. i just seem to be loosing dps hand over foot.

Same macros, more spell power, more crit, and more hit. yet a drop in overal dps.. anyone suffering from the same thing?
is all this new haste i have messing with my macros? or am i just doing something totally wrong all of a sudden.

Are you still hit capped?

And yes, haste will mess with /click macros.

I'm up to 4 pieces of t9 and 2100 spell power. I still don't see north of 4K ever. Almost always less than 3K on trash. I'd be interested to figure out if I'm doing something wrong too. I'm using the click macro that's posted as well.

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Originally Posted by thinus

Are you still hit capped?

And yes, haste will mess with /click macros.

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Haven't gemed for hit tbh as i didnt gem for it pre patch either, as i found that heroics bosses generally dont need that much. just using whatever comes as standard on the gear atm, but strange strange things are happening. like suddenly trial of the champion, the black knight, is a problem again. i mean that wasn't a problem for me when i had a gear level of about 200, now all of a sudden average gear level is about 230 and im getting killed by him. same tactics. just a lack of dps, Same in Forge of souls on the first boss, im just loosing the dps race's. Gone from killing hearld in old kingdom in 17 flat to winding up doing all the insanitys. all around here i read posts of how people are killing bosses in 6-10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Toc

Ok, so it runs like this. im using the macros Furspere posted in his thread running a pala + 4 shammy team

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This is exactly why I don't post macros anymore.

You need to learn to "tune" your macros. There are tons of posts on the subjects

I just respeced a bit, and it seemed to increase my DPS, going to run a few more heroics to figure out how much more dps I'm getting.

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[Elemental Mastery]: This talent now increases spell haste by 15% instead of critical strike chance while active.

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Are you sure that the DPS decrease is not related to the EM change? If you are popping Bloodlust / Heroism and hit the haste cap then EM is not doing much for you if you pop it in the same period.

Comparison of T8 and T9 (not sure if I used the right sets)

T8 gave you more crit, T9 gives you more haste which will further amplify the problem with using EM and BL/Hero together.

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Originally Posted by thinus

Are you sure that the DPS decrease is not related to the EM change? If you are popping Bloodlust / Heroism and hit the haste cap then EM is not doing much for you if you pop it in the same period.

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I SERIOUSLY doubt this. Niley is pulling 10,000 DPS with one of his Shaman. I'm still able to pull. 6 - 6.5k with mine.

I am more inclined to believe that this is a failure to write proper macros.

I was testing my macro tonight on the target dummies. I had 5.5k dps on all 3 of my guys without heroism with my updated spec. 4 pieces of t9, about 4300 gear score. 2500sp with all my buffs.

On bosses I don't get near this, I guess it's just the fight mechanics. I get about 3.5K - 4.5K now.

Um if you arent getting near 6-7K in full T9 you are doing something very wrong

To test if my macros is efficient I manually control spell casting on a target dummy to see how high my dps can be if everything is done correctly and manuel. Then I tweak my macros to get as close as possible to this number.

Just a hint on how I roll :D

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

I SERIOUSLY doubt this. Niley is pulling 10,000 DPS with one of his Shaman. I'm still able to pull. 6 - 6.5k with mine.

I am more inclined to believe that this is a failure to write proper macros.

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Ive been writing macros since vanilla wow, your macros i was using were a rough guideline fore me. i took your basic idea and developed it to suit my game style, as the amount of "." you put in were reflections of how many times you keystroke / gcd basically so i had to time mine and work out spell cool downs, i was merely referring to the fact that all of a sudden my ones dont work as well as they used to, and was wondering did anyone else suddenly run into this, the macros themselves werent the problems. i just cant quantify why i lost 1k in dps while going up in gear.

Well, if you are confident that your macros are *sound*, then look at your gear, and observe the basics.

As others have pointed out, we're all seeing an increase in overall DPS, so that points so something wrong with your setup.

i was merely questioning how my macros had suddenly stopped being as efficient as they used to be! and had other people found this, and how did they resolve it, it find it slightly amusing that is all. i have spent a good bit of time playing with them and tweaking them.

Edit :> problem fixed. it was an ingame problem of sorts, when i went investing everything and bringing my shammys back to the EJ forums ele shammy dps simulator taking down their details i noticed that for what ever reason most of my gear was not registering on the char screen, apperently stuck in a limbo where all the enchants weren't working and not only that any item that had been enchanted was not registering properly so in effect i had gear on at all except rings, trinkets, necks etc, after ticketing a GM he said its a known bug caused by making items trade able for two hours. and when i gemmed them they stopped working. a clean out of my wow folders and a bit of effort from him and it seems back to normal of sorts

So, there was something wrong with YOUR setup. :)

Glad you got it sorted out.

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Originally Posted by Toc

when i went investing everything and bringing my shammys back to the EJ forums ele shammy dps simulator taking down their details i noticed that for what ever reason most of my gear was not registering on the char screen, apperently stuck in a limbo where all the enchants weren't working and not only that any item that had been enchanted was not registering properly so in effect i had gear on at all except rings, trinkets, necks etc, after ticketing a GM he said its a known bug caused by making items trade able for two hours. and when i gemmed them they stopped working. a clean out of my wow folders and a bit of effort from him and it seems back to normal of sorts

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That's a bit worrying. So does the bug only affect the 2h trade able items you enchant or all your items?

Furs macros are basic guideline, once you get them you need to spend few hours adjusting them to Your liking, my 2 shamans that arent super geared still easily pull 6-7k on a 2 minute boss(raid)

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Originally Posted by Whowantstoknow

Um if you arent getting near 6-7K in full T9 you are doing something very wrong

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You can review World of Logs, even for heroic 25 man content most elemental shaman are below this mark for a night of raiding. So most people are probably not going to see this multiboxing unless it's bloodlusted.

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

I SERIOUSLY doubt this. Niley is pulling 10,000 DPS with one of his Shaman. I'm still able to pull. 6 - 6.5k with mine.

I am more inclined to believe that this is a failure to write proper macros.

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His trinkets help *alot* with this :o. Most of us are running some some ilvl 200 trinkets those damn procs help alot during a small parse.

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Originally Posted by Iceorbz

You can review World of Logs, even for heroic 25 man content most elemental shaman are below this mark for a night of raiding. So most people are probably not going to see this multiboxing unless it's bloodlusted.

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In a raiding environment, the "floor is lava" gimmick is waaaaaaaaay overused. DPS sucks when you spend the whole time moving as a caster. That's why the numbers are low - not because the gear is off.

And getting a rotation right is a lot harder than you think it is. I've spent hours upon hours tweaking things to get it right - I doubt a good majority of players do this.

this was done over 2 minutes of dps
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8...1909095659.jpg
For heroic if you look at wmo scoreboards, as elemental(lots of top end guild use that, exodus, cuties etc etc), I'm the(or at least was few days ago) highest dps shaman in US(that was pre both trinkets, and few other pieces), I know where shamans are supposed to be, and i raid on 2 ele.
I gave you 2 minute mark for a reason, after that dps seems to drop of a bit, but not much, also most people here do heroics, where in 30-40s fight they should easily see 6-7k+(of course fights dont last that long anymore in 5 mans)

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Originally Posted by Niley

this was done over 2 minutes of dps
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8...1909095659.jpg
For heroic if you look at wmo scoreboards, as elemental(lots of top end guild use that, exodus, cuties etc etc), I'm the(or at least was few days ago) highest dps shaman in US(that was pre both trinkets, and few other pieces), I know where shamans are supposed to be, and i raid on 2 ele.
I gave you 2 minute mark for a reason, after that dps seems to drop of a bit, but not much, also most people here do heroics, where in 30-40s fight they should easily see 6-7k+(of course fights dont last that long anymore in 5 mans)

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WTF dude? That's a lvl 60 target dummy. Go use a heroic dummy like the rest of us.

fucking lame...

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

WTF dude? That's a lvl 60 target dummy. Go use a heroic dummy like the rest of us.

fucking lame...

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I think I just pulled a muscle from laughing so hard.

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

WTF dude? That's a lvl 60 target dummy. Go use a heroic dummy like the rest of us.

fucking lame...

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ObviouslyI don't have hit to go onto heroic dummy eh?
Using heroic dummy to test your teams HEROIC 5 MAN dps is dumb as hell, you dont even encounter bosses that require 17% hit in there...

Lads seriously. there is enough people out there with the hating that we really dont need it internally. i mean fur man chillax, the only critisim of that 10k is its using a warlock with curse of elements. which the 4 shammy 1 pala team doesnt have, but im currently working on it. and i did spend a good while trying to tweak your orignal macros fur to suit myself where i wouldn't wind up clipping myself or find myself wiating that extra half second waiting for a lavaburst to come off CD stuck in macro. my question was merely to ask had similar happened. as it turns out it wasnt the marcos or my timing gone out of sync, but a fault in the game itself.

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Originally Posted by thinus

That's a bit worrying. So does the bug only affect the 2h trade able items you enchant or all your items?

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it affected Badge items, and weapons. Dont ask me why, thats what it did. and its fixed now. seems when you use the Embue weapon on new weapon it can cause a glich that can transfer to any item you buy/win there after. as i pretty much just went in one day. ran heroics all day it affected 3 or 4 items on each shammy. Gloves, shoudlers, chest and weapons themselves.

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Originally Posted by Niley

ObviouslyI don't have hit to go onto heroic dummy eh?
Using heroic dummy to test your teams HEROIC 5 MAN dps is dumb as hell, you dont even encounter bosses that require 17% hit in there...

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Ok. I can buy that. Why not use the lvl 80 normal dummies then?

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

Ok. I can buy that. Why not use the lvl 80 normal dummies then?

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doesn't make a difference, if you recall its the same ss as i used in warlock destro topic, i wanted to see whats going on with locks dps,not pull out my epeen on anyone, and dummy is good to compare dps as long as same dummy is used.
Loooong time ago when we had a topic about dps and whatnot i did use 80 dummies, here i was just testing, i went to random dummy.

edit just for you here, i didnt notice that arieh/ishv were dropping magmas, but still, similar result.
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7...2109180941.jpg

oh and ive managed to fix up my lock, shes doing a lot better, just had to do few adjustments to her current haste levels.

Nice Diablo 2 interface. lol

I've always been under the impression that when you lower the target level, you (dramitically) increase your chance to CRIT against it. Your chance to crit is based on equal level mods - at least as I understood it.

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

Nice Diablo 2 interface. lol

I've always been under the impression that when you lower the target level, you (dramitically) increase your chance to CRIT against it. Your chance to crit is based on equal level mods - at least as I understood it.

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That is correct. Use a lvl 80 dummy to avoid this artificial bump in crit %.

Guildie was playing with target dummies last night.

Saw an increase of ~1500 dps by going from lvl 80 to lvl 60 dummy. lol

I will use both dummies but the chance of crit would definitely go up with the higher level dummies.

I do admit that I will test out on the lower dummies sometimes to negate or reduce the likely-hood of misses etc as I am typically looking for uniformity of damage if that makes any sense.

actually my dps went up on lvl 80 dummy...

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Originally Posted by Niley

Furs macros are basic guideline, once you get them you need to spend few hours adjusting them to Your liking, my 2 shamans that arent super geared still easily pull 6-7k on a 2 minute boss(raid)

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QFT. I used his Prot Pally click set up as a starting point, and sat down and worked out that his ","s were WAY too many for the speed I like to spam at. I like a 1/second per ",", so i worked out the commas I needed, and my dps skyrocketed - on all of my characters. Fur's were set up for about quadruple of that. :) Because of the GCD, spamming faster does not do more damage, or so it seems, so a slow, steady pulse works great for me.

Lately I've been watching my kill rate, and I can SEE it slow down as I speed up. I just mentally repeat a "one-thousand, two thousand" pattern, pressing the dps key on the "one" and "two", and I'm getting big numbers. I like my rate, because I do big damage, and i have room to click other things and have them actually happen, whereas if I'm spamming faster, sometimes things won't go off, like heals.

I also looked at the toolkit of each character and how I should be using MORE of it, instead of what's posted in macro threads. Fur's macros were awesome for the basic rotation, but it had no mechanic for keeping Divine Plea up, and that can make a big difference.

I also worked out a scratch flow chart of all of the characters, and plotted what was being triggered, and when, and found a few spaces that I could tighten up on a rotation, or stretch it out. Very interesting to see your rotations next to each other, and then watch Recount and see the peaks and valleys where they should be, from reading the chart. My lock is next for examination, I want to get him up another 500 dps without having to buy gear, I need to take a look at his macros and what I'm using.

I dont use click for paladins, but still with my cs i managed to pull 2nd highest tps on wmo board.
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/tps/all/9/0/3

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but it had no mechanic for keeping Divine Plea up, and that can make a big difference.

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Uhh, as long as you keep hitting the target with melee - it'll never go down? Once per combat shouldn't be hard to maintain.