How do i get to 1800+ ??

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12-15-2009, 07:07 AM
Twyman

How do i get to 1800+ ??

Ok so i have been rated about 1650 for like 3 weeks now... i cant seem to break through. And i am getting really sick of not haveing a good weapon. I have plenting of points to buy the weapon, but i just cant seem to get to 1800. I keep going up against teams that already have there better gear... (side note: wtf is up with giving a better team access to better gear when the weaker team is the one that needs the help)....

So onto my question... what would happen if i dropped all of my guys but one from the arena team, then readding them to the team. Basiclly so it will reset there personal rating to a low rating and matching me up with lower rated teams so that i can boost my one guy that i kept at 1650 up and hopfully to 1800 so i can get my weapons.

Do you think it will work? Do you think it is bannable? Do you know of a better way to get to 1800 without paying a uber group.
12-15-2009, 07:13 AM
yaki

lots of practice
sudden improvements in gear
sudden improvements in tactics

Try to figure out what you're losing to currently, why you lost, and what you can try to have better odds.

Also I don't think ratings work that way. At least, they shouldn't work that way because it would break the whole system - not that it hasn't had retarded loopholes before.
12-15-2009, 07:33 AM
Mokoi

situational awareness

(like the fact you posted an obviously PvP related matter in the gen. discussion) ..

oh and...

Quote:

wtf is up with giving a better team access to better gear when the weaker team is the one that needs the help

Gear is a reward and not there to handicap the opposing team. It's there to improve your team and allow you access to a higher level of competition. Thinking that gear should be rewarded to those who preform at a lower level is ridiculous. Then obtaining a 100 rating would be the mark of excellence and the game would turn into a huge who can lose the fastest match.. ad infinitum.. you see how ridiculous this is, right? sometimes, just follow your assumption through a couple moves in advance.
12-15-2009, 08:24 AM
thinus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokoi

situational awareness

(like the fact you posted an obviously PvP related matter in the gen. discussion) ..

oh and...
Gear is a reward and not there to handicap the opposing team.

But that is exactly what happens. You are paired against teams with better gear and you need to beat them to get access to that gear yourself.

Quote:

It's there to improve your team and allow you access to a higher level of competition.

Its an arena. Competition should be on equal footing, not a race to get access to the better gear first so you can stay on top.

Quote:

Thinking that gear should be rewarded to those who preform at a lower level is ridiculous.

Yes, it is ridiculous. I am not sure that was what the OP was implying. I think he was just pointing out that whoever gets the better rank first now has an advantage over any other up and coming teams. You need to beat better geared teams to reach that rank in worse gear than the teams that did it first.

Quote:

Then obtaining a 100 rating would be the mark of excellence and the game would turn into a huge who can lose the fastest match.. ad infinitum.. you see how ridiculous this is, right? sometimes, just follow your assumption through a couple moves in advance.

And the OP did not make this suggestion. You are presenting an extreme and obviously ridiculous case. Personally I would feel a lot better if teams only competed with teams that have access to the same gear in arenas. Actually I don't really care as I think arenas are crap anyway.
12-15-2009, 02:21 PM
Crel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokoi

just follow your assumption through a couple moves in advance.

This is pretty solid info, and really applies to all of pvp. If you've been playing for some time now you've probably seen all the tricks. Assume that pally will solo rush you bubbled, predict that hunters going to los every chance he has.

The most important thing however is change your tactic "somehow", we fall into ruts when we assume whats worked so far should continue to. Even if it feels uncomfortable break some habits and try new things.
UCANDOEET!
12-15-2009, 03:27 PM
Shodokan

Be patient is all i can say. What team are you running?
12-15-2009, 03:34 PM
cmeche

Would it be worth it to pay a geared out healer to heal your group to 1800? Considering I am stuck around 1100 with no dedicated healer and solo, could a completely geared out healer get you this far?

I would honeslty trade 2 battered hilts to someone who could get me in range of the pvp shield and weapon.
12-15-2009, 04:04 PM
Shodokan

For a 4 shaman team? You need a dedicated healer with good gear. Depending on the worth of the hilts on your server i'm sure you can nab someone off a 2k rated team for a day or so to get your rating. Be warned that "pro" pvp players can be very impatient for mistakes made.
I use to sell 2's ratings on my rogue in BC and season 6... if the person wasn't at least competent no amount of gold can make up for that and ultimately it will become a waste of time.

So you either need to find someone patient, or a healer who is so good that they can TELL you what to do. Since you are a multi-boxer it's highly unlikely of the latter.
12-15-2009, 04:13 PM
valkry

If everyone in arena had the same level of gear, then the fights would come down to skill, tactics, group make-up and latency... what's the problem in this?
12-15-2009, 04:52 PM
Clovis

I've lost and regained 1800 a few times -- we started this weak closing in on 1900 - finished up at 1758 =P

A great healer is key - my healer and I have over 1300+ games played and started playing togather in S5. We also run BGs which are just so rediculously easy for us, I can't wait for rated BGs ;)
12-15-2009, 05:42 PM
thinus

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkry

If everyone in arena had the same level of gear, then the fights would come down to skill, tactics, group make-up and latency... what's the problem in this?

The problem is the carrot. A lot of people only play arenas for the gear.
12-16-2009, 02:13 AM
Mokoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinus

Its an arena. Competition should be on equal footing, not a race to get access to the better gear first so you can stay on top.

Sorry, competition between who should be on equal footing? And why shouldn't it be a race? Again, think 2 moves ahead of your argument and think about what would happen if players were allowed gear for merely playing games and not based off of any ranking system.. everyone would have the best gear, and there would be no incentives to be competitive. What would be the point? Play 100 games and get your free relentless? I'm confused on how you would run the game your way, would you just have premade characters for all arena matches with equal gear? Why would the majority of the player base play them, since upgrades are the main reason people compete in arenas.. taking out that would effectivly make arenas a joke and nobody would take them seriously.

Those teams who are better players than you and your team, or have more experience in the arenas move up the ladder quite quickly, and when you are at a 1000 MMR you do not fight anyone above 1300 for any points, making the fights trivial, while also allowing you access to higher level teams in case you are able to pull off a win.

Of course you get stomped in arenas, there's just not enough players to ensure an even matched even ranked team every game, but that's what they introduced MMR for, and this ensures that fighting these players with the gear and skill to destroy you does not impact your team negatively.

At higher levels of competition, the gear differences are non-existent and it ALL comes down to skill. In order to reach this though, you must fight enough of the teams at your level and win to rise slowly, that's what everyone who is 2500 rated did too.

Quote:

If everyone in arena had the same level of gear, then the fights would come down to skill, tactics, group make-up and latency... what's the problem in this?

above 2k rating, this is exactly what happens. Every team over 2k has their entire Relentless set and the gear is equivalent.
12-16-2009, 04:25 AM
heyaz

skill, tactics over 2k? yeah right, they control you so well, and there's so much GCD in play at that point.. it's all about whether you get off all 4 instant nukes, they hit, and none of your shaman get CC'd half way through, and in many cases you need the CL+FS to finish anyone off - and by that time a holy shcok, penance, swiftmend, nature's swiftness, etc. has already gone off and your target is as full health... Everyone at high ratings knows you're using a focus target, and since everyone uses healbot (or equivalent) that and hard switching just doesn't guarantee you a kill (especially since full relentless targets can survive 4x FS + LVB + 4x pyro rocket, and then you're out of instants).

Wait till you see my video of how absurd the matches look. You can't even tell what the hell is going on,there's so much crap flying around the screen, so much LoS, so much aoe, and such precise cc rotations that some matches you couldn't even win if you were somehow already in full season 8 gear. We had strategies that worked on the way up to 2k, and we could discuss tactics against certain comps, adjust our approach, and win. Now, we've tried everything and the 2200-2400 teams, well you might beat them once then they'll come up with a counter that you really can't do anything about - you just wait for them to make a serious mistake, while not making a single error yourself. And then they just turn it into a 30 minute rez fest and wear you down - ele shaman never get mana back, while every other class can (or doesn't use mana).

Of course I'm talking specifically about multiboxing. Two teams with 10 separate players, well that's much different.
12-16-2009, 06:13 AM
boxblizzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by valkry

If everyone in arena had the same level of gear, then the fights would come down to skill, tactics, group make-up and latency... what's the problem in this?

give everyone thier apple sauce is a very bad idea.

kinda pointless doing arenas except for the fighting, i go and do that in the bg instead or gank some people. i want gear, i want unique gear i earned thats better than others because i will be better than others.
12-16-2009, 07:19 PM
hotbabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxblizzard

give everyone thier apple sauce is a very bad idea.

kinda pointless doing arenas except for the fighting, i go and do that in the bg instead or gank some people. i want gear, i want unique gear i earned thats better than others because i will be better than others.

This... And Blizzard wouldn't make any money if they didn't have a grinding treadmill to constantly give us better gear, more pets, raids, etc. Think of multiplayer shooters, how long do they last? How long does it take until you get bored of the same old fighting for something abstract called "winning". Any effort you do needs to have clear rewards otherwise you lose interest.

In WoW the reward is the gear and the subsequent feeling you get when you steamroll with your new gear, until the others get better gear than you and you feel like shit, and then you get again better gear from the next season and again you feel like a king, and it goes on and on.
12-17-2009, 02:36 PM
Ualaa

I see both points of view.

You need the rewards to your toons and the gradual improvement of your rating/score, to provide the motivation to continue playing.

At the same time, it becomes harder and harder to progress, as more and more teams get whatever rating and add the toys to their own team.

This will never happen, but...

Giving everyone the option to choose whichever class/spec they want to play for a given match, and each balanced in power against the others... gives a level playing field. Then still give rating based on wins/losses, with the more skilled/better coordinated teams winning more... and offer arena gear or equivalent level PvE gear to teams based on their rating.
The arena still offers rewards to your toons, but the arena itself is a completely level playing field.

Ok, I don't see this happening ever, but there's my 2 cents on how to give both sides what they're asking for.
12-17-2009, 03:19 PM
Clovis

QFT.

Its so late in the rating that even lower teams are on equal gear levels as us (we've been to 1870 - full relentless except helm and shoulders now). Its taken forever to get up - usually our queues amount to 1700 rated teams that give 4 points and 2100+ teams that take 10 points so we gain 3-4 points, then lose 10 with the overall net result being no movement or down (we're 100points down currently).

We had a game a few days ago against a 2200 rated team on Lordaron - my healer and I had to hang back at the starting area why they all humped the tomb, waiting for them to make a mistake - their shaman kept getting close and as soon as we got a root off we blew our flame/lava/pyro to kill him (barely got him too) then moved up to camp his corpse. The rest of the game went on for 22 minutes and they got a res off and we restarted - got the shaman again with the same trick, then their warrior disconnected and they pillar humped.

We did win, but 22 minutes for 22 points isn't exactly effecient, but that's what everything amount to. Even with instants the target needs to be in the open for at least 2 seconds for us to kill (for all 4 to go off) - so many times on 1-3 lava burst go off before they LOS.

I can't wait for rated battlegrounds because LOS is not nearly as much of an issue as it is in areana.

Quote:

Originally Posted by heyaz

skill, tactics over 2k? yeah right, they control you so well, and there's so much GCD in play at that point.. it's all about whether you get off all 4 instant nukes, they hit, and none of your shaman get CC'd half way through, and in many cases you need the CL+FS to finish anyone off - and by that time a holy shcok, penance, swiftmend, nature's swiftness, etc. has already gone off and your target is as full health... Everyone at high ratings knows you're using a focus target, and since everyone uses healbot (or equivalent) that and hard switching just doesn't guarantee you a kill (especially since full relentless targets can survive 4x FS + LVB + 4x pyro rocket, and then you're out of instants).

Wait till you see my video of how absurd the matches look. You can't even tell what the hell is going on,there's so much crap flying around the screen, so much LoS, so much aoe, and such precise cc rotations that some matches you couldn't even win if you were somehow already in full season 8 gear. We had strategies that worked on the way up to 2k, and we could discuss tactics against certain comps, adjust our approach, and win. Now, we've tried everything and the 2200-2400 teams, well you might beat them once then they'll come up with a counter that you really can't do anything about - you just wait for them to make a serious mistake, while not making a single error yourself. And then they just turn it into a 30 minute rez fest and wear you down - ele shaman never get mana back, while every other class can (or doesn't use mana).

Of course I'm talking specifically about multiboxing. Two teams with 10 separate players, well that's much different.