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Has anyone thought about doing 5x prot pally pvp?
It just seems that their survivability and silences would be just devastating to anyone they come across. I havn't leveled my pally team yet but I am looking for options with them when I get their BoA gear collected.
1x Prot, can be very successful in PvP.
5x can be as well, particularly if you set up your hotkeys well.
The BoA gear is decent for leveling; pretty good for each level, so it doesn't need to be replaced.
But once you reach whatever level you are done at (80 for most of us), gear for that level will far surpass the BoA stuff.
Prot is amazing in pvp if you have plea up 100% of the time, once that is on cool down then what? chug?
While blessing of wisdom has the great impact on prot paladins, they need mana via combat mechanics or healing, not regen.
I did the test a few times in a duel. My ele shammy vs my prot pala using my normal spam buttons (both in quest greens / blue and at lvl 75+ where they have like all their abilities). While the fight takes long, the shaman just out dps's the tank. 2 and 3 shamans just kill him in a blaze. So imagine if 5 shamans encounter 5 tanks ... I can see some strategies to taunt, bubble, etc and make the fight last long, but the shammies will kill 1 tank faster than the tanks will take out 1 shaman. And once there, it's no match. Basically in pvp i don't care if i fire at a tank or another one. Instead of instant kill I'll have to push the button 3 or 4 times longer, while i still have thunderstorm left if he would reach me. (talking about all shamans taking out same target).
At least thats how i think about it based on some simple tests & some experience in BG's (using shamies as thats what i'm most familiar with).
It would probably be very fun to play if you like endurance. But PVP is about killing people, outlasting others isn't gonna get you really far.
Same goes for 4x resto shaman for example.
Very good points everyone, I didnt take into account the mana problems that the prot pallys would have, even with all of the buffs that they would benefit from.
Ok, how about changing things up, what about a mixed group of ret pallys and DKs? Would help prevent some kiting issues the melee group would encounter while decimating groups with cleave attacks from all toons.
Someone hasnt faced 11-12k Avengers sheildsQuote:
Originally Posted by Littleburst
I say got for it, as prot you will want Ret gear anyways. However, the passive healing/aoe dps with DStorm steals the show. Prot is god in 2s/3s not 5s
Prot for pvp, you'd want to stack block value.
That makes Shield of Righteousness a rather nasty power.
I'd probably go a Holy/Prot hybrid, mixture of SP/Sta gear.
Glyph a little differently. Avenger's Shield glyph would be good in pvp.
You'd have pretty decent melee, and strong efficient heals.
Divine Plea up most of the fight, and stay in melee.
There is no need to stack pve sbv for prot pvp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
Ret pvp gear is way better for prot pvp and stack the same stats as ret. str/ap/crit
Edit; I guess ualaa is talking about 19/52/0 prot which is more about sliences/heals. I am speaking more about the protret version the burst dmg spec.
i agree. prot in ret gear damage is high. burst is lower comparing to ret . but damage is high. You don't need block value. You want a slow 1 hand and all retribution dps gear. Hard to say it is better than ret for boxing though.
you lose instant flash of light, removal stun HOF, divine storm and repentance (these two hurt the most), and burst damage
you gain more stam, more armor (obviously, you use a shield). a range slience/daze, and cheat death.
For me personally, it is worth a try. It needs the same gear as retribution. Just dual spec this, no effort on your side to try it out.
prot is awesome, the only reason i dont do it is due to lack of healing from instant FoL and divine storm
Here is something I found at Elitist Jerks that talk about Prot Pally in PVP:
Here is the link to give credit to the original post:
http://elitistjerks.com/f38/t11564-p...vp_thread/p58/
Here the post:
If you experienced a huge drop in DPS compared to ret, you are not playing it right. I LOL at you if you are playing a Prot spec PVP paladin wearing tank gear. A PVP prot spec DPS Paladin should be wearing entirely ret gear, and maybe a few high iLevel BV tank pieces thrown in to get your block value up. You should find the best Str ret PVE items you can get your hands on, 2 Piece T9 is essential, a good slow 1 hander and the best shield you can find. Any relentless pieces you can get are a bonus, but not really necessary if it's too much of a nerf over a nice 245 ilvl Str piece.
You also shouldn't be using might or Righteousness. Sanctuary increases your strength by 10% (and thus your BV) and provides valuable damage reduction and mana return when you are attacked. SoV is your seal of choice and you should be using the SoV libram. With a 5 stack on a healer it will tick between 1100-1500, putting a lot of stress on them to keep both themselves and their dps up. Save your stun and avenger's shield for when your opponent gets to 50%. AS is also useful for catching an escaping druid or shammy healer.
You should shoot for 4500+ ap unbuffed, 1800-2000 BV and 30% crit. The burst potential of a good PvP prot paladin is huge, and usually underestimated by your opponents. Shield of Righteousness can crit for 7k+, Hammer for 6k+, glyphed Avengers Shield for 9k+ and a 3-4k+ judgement crit. This is almost all holy dmg--compared to ret which has much more white dmg to be mitigated by armor and resilience. A lucky string of crits can drop someone before they even knew what hit them.
The downside is your burst cycle revolves around a 30 second cooldown. If you mess-up and miss a burst cycle it can easily be a loss. But with a target at 50% you should be able to drop them within one hammer and dps rotation.
Mana is rarely an issue unless you forget to hit divine plea or you are mana burned to death by a disc priest left unattended.
I've found the sustained dmg is about 20% less than ret overall, but I'd guess the burst potential is 20% higher. Add to that a ton of dmg reduction talents for better survivability and a hammer on a 30 second cool-down and you have a very very dangerous spec to contend with.
I can easily beat any ret, warrior, DK or rogue in 1v1 except for maybe someone in a full relentless set-up with 1000+ resil, and you will be running about with no more than 400-500 resil yourself. The spec is a major monster in BGs. I've easily solo'd streams of (albeit under-geared), rogues, warriors, ret pallies, DKs all coming at me 2-3 at a time and feeling like Chuck Norris when all is said and done! I especially love hunting rets in BGs, since they tend to be under-geared, or running around in PVE gear thinking they are hot shit and then you drop them within a single hammer while they have wing up.
The bane of our existence is warlocks and mages, but I don't think that's any different than ret. I highly recommend long-time rets with nice gear giving Prot a try--I think you'll find it to be a ton of fun!
If I read this correctly they are not even talking about having any pvp gear. Just nasty pve gear to get them crits up. Guess your still going to be stuck on a class like a DK for having control over the fight. I`d say prots get kited like hell as well.
That ej post is right, in addition to talking about missing the rotation. One of the issues with prot paladin, or more likely paladin in general, is purge spam. You loose a seal, plea, sacred shield and your better be quick on reapply that smack.
I don`t think you can purge a seal these days.
I'll be honest, I tried this a while ago on my pallies, and granted the shields I had on 3 toons were junk, but I didn't see it as any real advantage over Ret. With Ret, the burst is always at your fingertips. A 9 second window of any action, and you are ready to drop another target.
Prot pallies do put out a lot of damage, and the avengers shield is nice, but I'm not sure I'd glyph it for single-target DPS especialyl in arena, 4 of those will completely silence anyone casting anywhere near your target, which would be nice.
I dunno, I didn't give it a good shot, I just kind of tried it out for shits n giggles in some furious and deadly items.
I'd like to see someone with good shields and 1h weapons try it out, and let us know =)
I have always wondered how 5x Avengers shields would look, or the receivers face!
Maybe try 3xglyphs for raw power and the other 2 for the ricochet effect.:eek:
My 5 Pally team is all prot and I have a blast pvping. I am however a pvp newb and never set foot in the arena so I assume my initial adventures in the arena are gonna be me getting pummeled. As much from not knowing what Im doing from anything else. I have tryed all 5 as Ret and it is alot of fun but in the end I enjoy the survivability and the Captain America style pwnage more than I do operating a healing blender. Once I finish getting some better gear for my paladins I"ll give Arena a go. So far the plan is for three of them to be glyphed for Avengers Shield and the other two not. All five will have a Darkmoon card: Death tho for a little extra burst. Just have to wait and see.
I do anticipate having 5 cleanses in one global Cooldown to be a big advantage vs the Locks, DK,s and Priests. The melee teams I am not anticipating to be much of a problem as they will have to also stand in 5 consecrations in addition to everything else.
when i get time on my hands ill record something for you to show you what kinda dmg a prot paladin can do ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleburst
Just read that part of EJ and i think i hugely underestimate the damage a prot pally can do, so yeah i'm curious :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ruodhaid
Without instant FoL's I just don't think it's going to work anywhere outside of BG's.
meh i dont have mucth time this days. cant relly find time for pvp atm.. but i have done some pve prot dps for you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Littleburst
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8aWI3KIztQ Gundark hc tanking 4300 dps
http://www.vimeo.com/8385506 Totc hc tanking 4400 dps
I will record some pvp content early januar, but its not multiboxed so might be useless info ;/
There is a difference between efficiency, when one boxing, and playing multiples of the same class/spec.
Still, single play gives us an idea of the potential of multiples.
Assuming abilities overlap, you can also run both Prot heavy and Ret heavy builds, you'd just have to ensure your set up takes into consideration the different special abilities and such.
With 2/2 "Guarded by the Light", your Divine Plea cannot be dispelled.
Not sure on the ability for a Seal to be purged or not.
Is this in tank gear or dps gear? I see you taking a LOT of damage so I guess dps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruodhaid
its ret gear
unbuffed in that gear i have
417 defence
1700 block value
5000 ap
30% crit
28500 hp
and then i have 2 inkes and a libram that can proc and make it relly nice :) when everything procs i have 7k ap 43% crit and 2500 block