Paladin Tank

Printable View

01-08-2008, 02:51 PM
reman

Paladin Tank

I see quite a few of us 5 boxers are using a pally tank going through instances. Just want to share something. While pally tank is great for holding multi trash mobs, I do have problem with generating burst dmg for threat as well as sustaining a certain amount of threat when my mages are nuking crazy. Particularly, have problem with two ogre bosses (second bosses in Shattered Hall & Shadow Lab). After the aggro reset, I either don't have enough mana to grab them back, or even if i do, they would just ignore my attack.

So after digging around, I found the problem - my spell dmg is toooo low! Most of the threat for pallies are coming from holy dmg rather than white dmg. All my gears are warrior tanking plate with plus defense, stam, and avoidance. On top of that, I have been using a melee tanking weapon all this time (and trying to grind for Sun Eater :( ). Solutions? I should be using a caster sword with +spell dmg for tanking since that gives the most spell dmg per piece. Only wish I could find this out earlier. The summery I find for paladin tank on Wowinsider

Quote:

* Get 10-12k hp at level 70
* Get 490 Defense
* Get 250 Spell Damage
* Get your total of dodge/parry/block to 100% (with holy shield/redoubt)
* Put up Retribution Aura
* Cast Greater Blessing of Sanctuary on yourself
* Pull with Avenger's Shield
* Judge Seal of the Crusader, then keep up Seal of Righteousness
* Judge Righteousness every 8 seconds
* Consecrate
* Holy Shield
* Win big loots, have your party love you

http://www.wowinsider.com/paladin-tanking
01-08-2008, 04:14 PM
Nepida

Yep, get crystalforged sword or the caverns of time sword. Enchanted with 40sp it will last you a long time.

Also http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ is one of the best pally tanking sites I've seen.
01-08-2008, 04:45 PM
aetherg

Your total dodge/parry/block only needs to be 90%; 490 defense will give the boss a 10% chance to miss against you.

Also, 490 is the number for mobs at level 73 or ?? (boss). If you're only doing 5-mans, the max you will see is 72. In that case, you only need 485 defense, and you don't even have to worry about the total dodge/parry/block, since only mobs 3 levels higher than you can land crushing blows.

If you're doing heroics, the new badge gear is a great way to get some spell damage along with tank stats.
01-08-2008, 04:50 PM
marvein

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nepida

Yep, get crystalforged sword or the caverns of time sword. Enchanted with 40sp it will last you a long time.

Also http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ is one of the best pally tanking sites I've seen.

just another thumbs up for this site. lots and lots of great info there about paladins and their roles.
01-08-2008, 05:32 PM
reman

Great info. Crystalforged Sword seems to be the way to go. But Depleted Sword seems like a random grind. I am thinking

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32450

which should be easier to get.
01-08-2008, 05:36 PM
marvein

Quote:

Originally Posted by reman

Great info. Crystalforged Sword seems to be the way to go. But Depleted Sword seems like a random grind. I am thinking

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32450

which should be easier to get.

pretty sure there are a number of very good reasons to use a sword as a prot pally. like bonuses from talents and such.
01-08-2008, 06:03 PM
aetherg

Crystalforged sword is pretty easy to get on the AH. And it's really not that hard to grind yourself. Just do the demon banishing quest as a group, and on average one or two of you should get a darkrune, which you can use to do Shartuul.

Takes 15 minutes to do the event (very easy if you are familiar with the strat), and you get a guaranteed rare/epic. The depleted sword has a reasonable drop chance; on average it should take you a week of doing that (30 mins per day) to get a sword. And you get lots of other items along the way that you can keep or sell.

I don't think sword v.s. mace affects any talents.

If you are looking for something else, this is good too:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30832
01-08-2008, 06:07 PM
Remote

You actually need 104% combined dodge/parry/block/miss to be uncrushable.
01-08-2008, 06:13 PM
Nepida

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remote

You actually need 104% combined dodge/parry/block/miss to be uncrushable.

It's actually 102.4%
01-08-2008, 06:16 PM
voodoogriff

Actually I don't think there is really any reason to go swords over maces except that there are more caster swords than maces.
01-08-2008, 06:21 PM
marvein

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nepida

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remote

You actually need 104% combined dodge/parry/block/miss to be uncrushable.

It's actually 102.4%

but again it only matters on lvl 73 raid bosses because lvl 70-72 mobs cant crush.

And I thought there were some talents in prot that nehanced sword damage/crit/etc, but it was all 1h so n/m
01-08-2008, 06:55 PM
reman

avoidance is actually fourth on the list for me.
with 1, defense 2, stam, 3, spell dmg. Although I do want a Block Rating/Value oriented tank. My problem was not being able to generate threats fast enough to pull a taunt immune boss off my dps. Speaking of defense, there comes another problem. All my characters are on follow from level 1-70. They have rarely TAKEN ANY HITS. So their defense is super low. So when they take a hits, it is usually a crit in the face. If I don't gain control of the boss, 1-2 shot and my characters are dead.
01-08-2008, 07:03 PM
marvein

Quote:

Originally Posted by reman

avoidance is actually fourth on the list for me.
with 1, defense 2, stam, 3, spell dmg. Although I do want a Block Rating/Value oriented tank. My problem was not being able to generate threats fast enough to pull a taunt immune boss off my dps. Speaking of defense, there comes another problem. All my characters are on follow from level 1-70. They have rarely TAKEN ANY HITS. So their defense is super low. So when they take a hits, it is usually a crit in the face. If I don't gain control of the boss, 1-2 shot and my characters are dead.

agro management is part of the fun :) You cant go balls to the walls dps as if you have 5 dps when you are tring to tank a taunt immune boss. You have to wait and let yourself gain agro before you start unleashing fury on your target for things like that. Hate management is a group effort and now its all in your hands instead of 4 or more random people :)
01-09-2008, 10:39 AM
Kyudo

Quote:

Originally Posted by reman

They have rarely TAKEN ANY HITS. So their defense is super low. So when they take a hits, it is usually a crit in the face. If I don't gain control of the boss, 1-2 shot and my characters are dead.

I am facing the same issues. One of my activities for today will be to spend an hour or so with each of them on a different Servant of whatsitcalled in Blasted lands to both max out their defence and their weapon skills. Boring, but effective.
01-09-2008, 03:18 PM
kllrwlf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyudo

One of my activities for today will be to spend an hour or so with each of them on a different Servant of whatsitcalled in Blasted lands to both max out their defence and their weapon skills. Boring, but effective.

I did the same with my hunter... max skill on all weapons except thrown (because I would have to manually hit a button for each throw, unlike the auto-attack, auto-shoot).

Does anyone know if INT stats help with increasing the speed of skilling up weapons, or is this no longer the case?
01-09-2008, 04:50 PM
marvein

Quote:

Originally Posted by kllrwlf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyudo

One of my activities for today will be to spend an hour or so with each of them on a different Servant of whatsitcalled in Blasted lands to both max out their defence and their weapon skills. Boring, but effective.

I did the same with my hunter... max skill on all weapons except thrown (because I would have to manually hit a button for each throw, unlike the auto-attack, auto-shoot).

Does anyone know if INT stats help with increasing the speed of skilling up weapons, or is this no longer the case?

It was never the case, it was just a running joke :)

Now in FFXI on the other hand.... orz
01-10-2008, 04:59 AM
kayb

You should be able to push 1000 tps quite easily at level 70 with paladin in blues. Not until you're maxed out in defense and uncrittable/crushable you start to worry about spelldamage and stamina. Before that 2-300 spelldamage will be plenty. With Avenging Wrath even my main can dps pretty hard without taking aggro from the tank.

On the second boss of Shattered Halls try this.

I would start the encounter slow. Judge Crusader and apply Seal of Righteousness. Dps him down to about 80% then just wait for the aggrowipe. When he runs for a new target, cast Avenger Shield on him, and BoP whichever target he chose. He should be heading back for you immediately. Activate Avenging Wrath and go to town.

Second boss of Shadow Lab is similar, with the added problem of the fact that you're oom after the first mind control phase. Pot mana and cast Avenger Shield when he becomes tankable after mind control, and dps hard. Positioning is key. Your dps need to be outside 30 yards to avoid the warstomp/knockback. Tank with your back to the wall (I favored the dirt patch to the left of the door, with my dps huddled together in the opposite corner by the door). Depending on the situation you may allow your dps to pull aggro after a warstomp, and range taunt him back, just to be able to do as much dps as possible in a short timeframe, but this can be very risky. Very hard encounter for pala tank.
01-10-2008, 05:35 PM
reman

Quote:

You should be able to push 1000 tps quite easily at level 70 with paladin in blues. Not until you're maxed out in defense and uncrittable/crushable you start to worry about spelldamage and stamina. Before that 2-300 spelldamage will be plenty. With Avenging Wrath even my main can dps pretty hard without taking aggro from the tank.

On the second boss of Shattered Halls try this.

I would start the encounter slow. Judge Crusader and apply Seal of Righteousness. Dps him down to about 80% then just wait for the aggrowipe. When he runs for a new target, cast Avenger Shield on him, and BoP whichever target he chose. He should be heading back for you immediately. Activate Avenging Wrath and go to town.

Second boss of Shadow Lab is similar, with the added problem of the fact that you're oom after the first mind control phase. Pot mana and cast Avenger Shield when he becomes tankable after mind control, and dps hard. Positioning is key. Your dps need to be outside 30 yards to avoid the warstomp/knockback. Tank with your back to the wall (I favored the dirt patch to the left of the door, with my dps huddled together in the opposite corner by the door). Depending on the situation you may allow your dps to pull aggro after a warstomp, and range taunt him back, just to be able to do as much dps as possible in a short timeframe, but this can be very risky. Very hard encounter for pala tank.

That was really helpful. Up until now I would have to swap my 70 MS/Arm warrior with paladin for tanking the second boss in shattered hall. Once I get a spell sword, I'd try again with my pally tank.

For the second boss of shadow lab, that was whole new game. Biggest problem I have was with positioning after MC. My guys would eat the warstomp/knockback. After I heal back with priest, the priest would gain too much aggro and get pwned soon after that. and If I were to move my guys individually, I would spend too much time moving and when I am ready to DPS again, the next round of MC would start. Same story with Nazan's fireball in heoric rampart and Hydromancer Thespia's Lighting Cloud in heoric steamvault, I just couldn't dodge them in time. I guess more repair bills needed.
01-10-2008, 05:42 PM
marvein

If you are just doing heroics/5mans (aside from ZA) you do not need to worry about being uncrushable because only mobs that are 3 levels above you can crush. So go for uncritable then go for lots of stamina and spell dmg.
01-10-2008, 06:07 PM
Nepida

Quote:

It was never the case, it was just a running joke

When the game was first released INT did in fact speed up weapon skilling :)

Also 1000 tps is too high for a pally in blues.