Gearing up for PvP in WoW

First off, this post will expose my WoW noobness and for that I apologise but once we were all noobs (and some like me always hover around the edges of perma-noobdom :) )

A little background: I was an Anarchy Online player and then played Warhammer and never really played WoW apart from a couple of months back around Spring '05. Anyway, in playing Warhammer I thought I'd quite fancy dual logging and came across this site. I came to the conclusion that dual logging WAR wasn't really going to be all that fun but I saw all the tools, macros, etc. for WoW and thought 'I'll give that a try'.

The old familiar tale: 2 boxing became 3 boxing became 5 boxing and I've gone from using Keyclone and knowing next to nothing to recently moving to Innerspace and feeling more at home tinkering around until I've grown (no doubt foolishly) confident in what I'm doing. Anyway, I always have derived a lot of pleasure from PvP but with multi-boxing I thought I'd better not as it may be construed as 'against the spirit' of things but I can't hold back any more :p

OK, here's the point of this post. I did roll a team of 1xPally, 4xShaman on a PvE server (Alliance too, to compound the error :p) but last week decided to reroll a team for PvP on a PvP server. So, I started off a team of 5xShaman. At getting to level 12 I then set my mind on how to gear up the toons and it struck me that I won't be able to do any instances on my own (at the appropriate level) as I won't have a tank and, while my team is still in nappies I thought I'd fish around for some advice.

One thought I have is to transfer my Paladin from the PvE server (he is currently level 68 and I'd also have to do a faction change as new team is horde) and use him to get gear for 4 of the shamans and the other one can get gear eventually from PvP rewards.

Or I could roll a new Paladin to level up 4 of the new Shamans and take care of the fifth one later.

Or do I need to do instances at all with a PvP team or is it possible, like in WAR, to level and gear up exclusively through PvP?

Or, is there really much difference in the amount of PvP I will experience between a PvP and PvE server? Maybe I should just roll a 5th Shaman on the PvE server? I know in WAR 99% of the PvP is either instanced or takes part in areas which are always open to PvP regardless of server type so in reality playing on an Open PvP server vs restricted is really the same in my experience.

Another option, of course, would be to find a friendly tank and run instances with him but one of the main reasons I multibox is that I have a young family and at any time can be told by She Who Must Be Obeyed to drop everything so I would rather rely on myself if I can.

I realise I could probably get some answers if I dug around official forums but I'd appreciate a take on this from a multi-boxer's point of view and on how anyone else has gone about this.

Thanks for ready this rather long post and also for any advice anyone can offer.

It is absolutely possible to play all the way to the end of the pvp game and never step foot in an instance, if you so desire. You'd just level to 80 with quests, then BG/arena for pvp gear and there you go.

Depending on what you're looking for as far as pvp, you might find what you're after just fine on your pve server. You'll basically lose world pvp, which is a lot of fun, but tends to be a small part of the pvp in wow, imo. Most of your pvp will come from battlegrounds and arenas. It just depends on what interests you more. World pvp is definitely more dynamic, but that has a negative effect while level as well as you can be ganked/camped while trying to quest. One thing you could consider is rolling on one of the server with an established pvp population that could help you if you get camped too bad. Magtheridon is probably the best example, and you can even find forums on this site dedicated to the players to play there.

If you do decide to go with your existing group, I wouldn't bother with a 5th shaman. Most serious multi-shaman arena players play with 4 shaman multiboxed, and a dedicated healer for the 5th slot. In bgs, you are already a force with 4 shaman, and the paladin isn't completely worthless either. You'd be surprised how many people attack my 40k paladin just because he's out in front while ignoring the 4 shaman in the back burning them down.

If it were me, I'd stick with your existing group, get to 80, try pve and pvp and see how you like it. If you absolutely hate a pve server, you can xfer over to wherever and go from there.

Good luck.

Another thing worth mentioning is that you're probably doing RAF I take it? So gear will be pretty pointless all the way to 60, and even then it's not really worth doing instances unless you want to. Just aim for 80, then pvp or pve :)

[QUOTE=Brocher;236174]
Or do I need to do instances at all with a PvP team or is it possible, like in WAR, to level and gear up exclusively through PvP?
[QUOTE]

You can level and gear up through PvP, but it's tricky. You won't make any gold if you exclusively PvP, which means you're off to a poor start unless you have another char with money. You can gear up through PvP, but ironically it'll probably be faster to get a basic set of PvP gear through PvE with your paladin tank + 4 shammies, than through PvP.

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Or, is there really much difference in the amount of PvP I will experience between a PvP and PvE server? Maybe I should just roll a 5th Shaman on the PvE server? I know in WAR 99% of the PvP is either instanced or takes part in areas which are always open to PvP regardless of server type so in reality playing on an Open PvP server vs restricted is really the same in my experience.

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The big difference between PvP servers and PvE servers is mostly ganking. Since most meaningful PvP takes place in BG and Arena, the world PvP is mostly just ganking - there are no decent rewards for world PvP, except the fun of killing annoying rogues on sight. There are also a lot of disadvantages however - but really it's a matter of preference although it should be mentioned that the open world pvp objectives can also be done on PvE servers, you just have to flag yourself for PvP first.

All in all I'd suggest you sticking with paladin + 4 shamans. It's a good combo and you can use paladin to heal in battlegrounds in a pinch and use him for tank in instances. Druid would also be an option (for tank + bg healer), but since you already have a lvl 68 paladin, I'd say stick with him :-)

If you detach the issues from pvp and battlegrounds as well as leveling and gearing. Then I think your answer is, leveling in battlegrounds is perfectly acceptable along with gearing there as well. You can queue for battlegrounds remotely, do some quests if you like here and there and then at 80 hit some heroics with a tank friend and rotate your shaman around.

I would level 5 shaman, then have them go back and murder for the paladin if your inclined to have something just for heroics.

A the point where your doing the paladin leveling, that would just be for heroic badge farming. I am not sure really what that would yield for a pvp only people, perhaps just cash, enchant mats and maybe badges for gems?

Thanks for the replies, I seem to have sorted out in my head what I'm going to do. I will stick with the team I currently have (all are currently lvl 68) as my RAF runs out in 2 weeks so that got me panicking to start a new team as I don't fancy 4x BC + 4xWotLK more upgrades :p

The two reasons I wanted to make a new team were:

- I have been levelling up mainly using guides and macros I have found here so have a spam button with /click macros and fallthrough's - I can't use this set-up for PvP and as well as that I have only been using a small part of each characters toolset up to now and levelling up a fresh team would have given me a better handle on the class (not that MMO's are overly complicated anyway, this is a small point couple of days running around in instances would get a handle on everything)

- I was thinking of Arena matches. I deliberately haven't done any BG's as, to me, the idea of a casual player signing up, joining a PUG and then encountering 5 characters coming at him launching 5xdebuffs, 5xDoT's then 5xnukes seemed like I would generate a lot of hate, but then I guess it's no different to PUG vs Pre-made. OTOH the multi-boxer can't be said to have any advantage over 5 humans who play as a tight-knit unit. I think a Paladin + 4xshaman team would be useless in Arenas (with one person controlling all 5), but maybe I should walk before running and start in 3v3 anyway?

Think what I'll do is level up my current team to 80 then make a shaman on Paladin account and level him to 80 doing a lot of BG's solo to get a handle on the class in PvP.

As an aside, is there any add-on to have different hotbar set-ups? Maybe have two options in IS to launch my team, PvP-bars & PvE-bars and have any changes I make remembered until the next time I log in, that way I can keep my spam button for PvE but have non-macro buttons for when I want to PvP. Even better would be if I could do it on-the-fly in game so that I could swap without logging out.

Shift 1 and Shift 2, get you two different main bars, within the default wow client.
Shift 3 through Shift 6 switch the main bar to any of the other six, but these can already be displayed via Interface - Action Bars.

You'll pvp best with all shaman's.
They have a lot of things going for them.
That isn't to say others don't have potential.
As far as world/battlegrounds go, anything works.
Arena, especially at higher ratings force more ideal compositions.

Shammies have:
Mail armor and shields.
A lot of controlled burst.
Strong support heals.

In general, you wouldn't want click sequences for pvp play.
Probably go with... Flame Shock, Lava Burst, Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Purge, Lesser Healing Wave as the main spells, each on its own button.
Have a default totem stomp macro, for 4 of each totem.
Have a few castsequences, either wow based or within inner space for things like Tremor, Earthbind, Fire Nova, Fire Elementals and Thunderstorm.
Have some things where each can cast/drop immediately, such as Grounding Totems.

Inner Space gets you a strong FTL system, which I'd highly recommend for pvp.
Not sure that you'd want the automatic follow or strobe follow enabled, probably better to activate via an easy to reach keybind.
This way, any toon can lead as easily as any other.
You can Flame Shock a toon and then another toon, without a sequence getting you the next spell automatically.
You can move back to the first target and Elemental Mastery - Lava Burst, without needing to re-cast Flame Shock etc.

You'll want "Click to Move" enabled across the board.
As well as an Interact With Target key.
Possibly set InnerSpace to broadcast this to everyone other then the current character.
If you go this route, you'll also want something for everyone to interact, so you can recover from Fear bombs.
That way, any toons out of range can interact/move into range, but your current toon doesn't run in.

I am a pvp junkie!!! (1750 in 5's on my pod of 4 shammies) but i would care less if i was on a pvp or pve server. u sign up for Bgs and play them and get ur gear, ull get a que really fast no madder what server ur on because they are cross relms meaning they are linked with like 20 dif. other relms so yeah.. ull get the que.

Then once u get ur gear, u find a healer which is easy to find even on a pve server, do arenas own and u feel happy
if u ever wanna heroic, bambbbb 10000 tanks on a pve server.. boom ur set, (u also got ur pali lol)

when you do arena most people do not run 5 in pvp anways. they have there 4 alll dps, and someone else heals, so i mean ur 4 other guys are set i think, I wouldnt want u to have to level up again, and i mean once ur 80 and if u want to world pvp (there really is no world pvp in wow to be honest, all it is is u might see a horde/alliance questing and u gank them, there is never like a huge battle or anything.. u pay 80 bucks to transfer all ur 4 guys to a pvp server, done.

never mind, didnt read ur last post lol, i see ur sticking with ur old team, scratch last post lol

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Originally Posted by Ualaa

You can Flame Shock a toon and then another toon, without a sequence getting you the next spell automatically.
You can move back to the first target and Elemental Mastery - Lava Burst, without needing to re-cast Flame Shock etc.

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Thanks a lot for that post, lots of good info for me there really helped focus my mind and pointed me in the right direction. The action bars I should have seen, feel a bit silly about that one! Only part I don't quite get is the sentences quoted above. Do you mean set up a rotation key in Innerspace to rotate Flame Shock then target, key, target, key,... then switch back to first target to start the heavy damage spells?

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Originally Posted by Ogloo

never mind, didnt read ur last post lol, i see ur sticking with ur old team, scratch last post lol

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It's not set in stone I'll keep my old team, I'm pretty much a fresh page at the moment, but I'm thinking that as I already have 4 shamans I should use them but I haven't any real experience of WoW PvP.

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Originally Posted by HPAVC

If you detach the issues from pvp and battlegrounds as well as leveling and gearing. Then I think your answer is, leveling in battlegrounds is perfectly acceptable along with gearing there as well. You can queue for battlegrounds remotely, do some quests if you like here and there and then at 80 hit some heroics with a tank friend and rotate your shaman around.

I would level 5 shaman, then have them go back and murder for the paladin if your inclined to have something just for heroics.

A the point where your doing the paladin leveling, that would just be for heroic badge farming. I am not sure really what that would yield for a pvp only people, perhaps just cash, enchant mats and maybe badges for gems?

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Well, I guess that would depend on what you find acceptable. In my opnion it's pretty slow - and that's a shame. Levelling a pvp char in BG's should (IMHO) be the same speed as levelling a PvE char in a PvE setting. But then again I believe in a level-less system and starting new chars at max level once you have a character of that level already on the account, so... :-P

As far as badges go, you can use them to buy PvP gear - Deadly mail pieces are around 58 badges each as far as I remember. The mats and cash and secondary spec gear is just a plus :)

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Originally Posted by Ualaa

You'll pvp best with all shaman's.
They have a lot of things going for them.
That isn't to say others don't have potential.
As far as world/battlegrounds go, anything works.
Arena, especially at higher ratings force more ideal compositions.

Shammies have:
Mail armor and shields.
A lot of controlled burst.
Strong support heals.

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That sounds fairly sensible. Although what works seems to be highly dependible on how arenas are laid out and that seems to change with a new expansion (most likely because an expansion means a skill/spell overhaul which is at first mostly balanced for PvE and how that affects Arenas aren't really taken into account until later).

The shaman team looks like they have survived the change to WOTLK though, but still, new mb-comps seems to be emerging. Paladins for instance. Personally, I'd like to see more compositions being viable though - variation is always good :-)

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Originally Posted by Brocher

Only part I don't quite get is the sentences quoted above. Do you mean set up a rotation key in Innerspace to rotate Flame Shock then target, key, target, key,... then switch back to first target to start the heavy damage spells?

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For PvE play, most of us use either a castsequence or a click castsequence.
Basically you can spam the same key, and get a Flame Shock, then a Lava Burst, then a Chain Lightning etc on subsequent presses of the same key.
A castsequence is a fixed order.
A click castsequence is a priority system, with delay comma's based on our spam speed of the dps button.
Either of these casts spells in a predetermined order, which rocks for PvE but is not ideal for PvP.

In PvP, we want the ability to cast a specific spell at a specific time.
The sequence is not a good idea, other then the kill sequence (Flame Shock, Elemental Mastery, Lava Burst type thing).

If you were using a castsequence, you'd flame shock the first toon, switch to a second toon and Lava Burst them, switch back to the first and Chain Lightning, which is not that successful.

With every spell on its own key, we can Flame Shock one target.
Switch to a different target and Flame Shock again, this time on a second opponent.
Now we have two opponents with 4x Flame Shock on them.
Which means, two people have to be wary of the Lava Burst.

You wouldn't want to set up a round robin in innerspace for Flame Shocks.
You'd want every toon to Flame Shock at once, at the same target.

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Originally Posted by Fuzzyboy

That sounds fairly sensible. Although what works seems to be highly dependible on how arenas are laid out and that seems to change with a new expansion (most likely because an expansion means a skill/spell overhaul which is at first mostly balanced for PvE and how that affects Arenas aren't really taken into account until later).

The shaman team looks like they have survived the change to WOTLK though, but still, new mb-comps seems to be emerging. Paladins for instance. Personally, I'd like to see more compositions being viable though - variation is always good :-)

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One team has proven to be very strong at high levels.
I think a lot of people pick shammies because others have had success with them, so they know it can be done.

But, the more options we have the better.
I'm going with Balance Druids (alliance side) and Affliction Warlocks (horde side) for battlegrounds.
Both will attempt arena at some point, likely as soon as they hit 80th, to get the points started.

The Druids will be fun.
Moonkin gives them decent armor.
Like a shammy team, they can support their healer with strong heals.
Hurricane against bunched opponents, Treants on the healer for interrupts.
Cyclone and Root on round-robin, or perhaps against a Focus target.
Starfall looks nice, especially x4 or x5, but Nature's Swiftness can be very strong too.
Typhoon will be similar to Thunderstorm.
They lack fear protection from Tremors, and their dots (land regardless of facing) is only part of their dps.

Warlocks are a change of pace.
The idea of landing 20 dots on someone in a BG is fun.
Probably go with 4x Felhounds and Soul Link, and then 1x Imp for the buff but no Soul Link here.
Not sure which to drop if I arena with them seriously, would want a dedicated healer if I try that route.
Instant Cast AoE fear on round-robin, plus Death Coil & single Fear.
Seed of Corruption against bunched enemies.
No fear protection again, but dots don't need facing and this will be most of their damage.
They will lack support heals, although each can Drain Life, with Siphon Life and Haunt as extra heals.

Paladins seem a strong option.
Plate armor, potentially a shield or the two-hander.
Each can heal, and each brings a different strong buff.
A lot of bubble options.
They have stuns, snares etc.