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For raiding i know you need 540 def and 342 hit rating for my casters but what do i need for heroics only
Tank Def needs to be?
and Hit rating needs to be?
Pally Tank fully buffed will be at 25k hp
Boomkin 1600 sp
ele sham 1750 sp
Mage 1500 sp
Priest healer 1500 sp
Should that be enough to start?
thanks
I 5 box shamans 4 ele 1 resto and started clearing heroics at 19.5khp and 1800sp. Since I didnt have a real tank aggro would just bounce around and the healer had a spam bad guys target with heals macro. It worked pretty well, so i think with an actual tank and the right healing you are ready.
Your team should be able to buff up quite nicely as well. Try something like DTK or Gundrak to get a feel for the level you are at. Gundrak is nice if you start with the snake boss, it's pretty much tank and spank with the occaisional AoE thrown in to kill adds. You may not clear either of those at first but after dying about 3 times to each boss I was able to get a method together that worked and now farm them quite easily. If you try DTK getting passed trollgore was the hard part for me, the rest of the bosses are pretty much free loot once you figure out how to run it.
Hopefully that helps a bit even though I didnt directly address your questions.
How did you reach those numbers without doing heroics? The thing that kills me - in order to get gear to do heroics - you have to do HEROICS???Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettysue
I tried to 5 box heroics tonight and it was a nightmare. My boys are linked in the sig, I'm also boxing my druid (Arborviate in the same guild).
Button 1 - 6 went like this:
Pull with FF.
1 - Tank macro (Maul, lac, swipe, repeat)
2 - 3 shaman = LB, tank = swipe (cause he wasnt holding aggro for shit on the adds)
3 - Healing wave on tank
4 - LHW on tank
5 - the healie dot
6 - Earthshield on the tank
I would be fine if the druid tank didn't lose aggro. I could see how this would be doable with a pally or DK... but stay away from druid tanks if you dont have the gear! :(
Just looking at that, I can tell you : yes, that's enough to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by palvarik
Heroics are about two things :
- Tank not dying after two hits (I had that at first, frustrating)
- Practice (yep, old fashion "learn the encounter")
I must say I didn't really feel a difference when my tank got to the magical 535 defense level.
Of course, now that my PVE team is better geared, I realize it is also possible to "brute force" heroics, but I guess that's not your question.
[edit] Spelling
535 defense and if you spec iFF you do not need any additional hit rating if you pick up the hit rating talents on all your guys.
You can over-gear heroics before stepping foot in one by picking up some BoE epics from the AH - but your gear should be more than sufficient to start
BoE and PvP welfare epics got me to those numbers...I don't have a tank so I had to start at a point that is a little overgeared for the instances. I was after badge loot so that's why i run them even if there are only a few upgrades available gear-wise.
If you have a true tank they are a ton easier, when my wife does runs with me on her pally it's a walk in the park for most of fights. She keeps aggro pretty well and I just try to nuke lose adds to keep them off the healer.
My biggest gain was when i started using pretty much every cooldown whenever it was available. I don't know why but it always seems like I wait to use them for that special moment and in the end never utilize the power available in popping trinkets every cooldown and bloodlusting right at the start of every boss. I see it a lot in vids too people seem to be afraid to use something with greater than a minute cooldown.
My best advice is go in brute force style the first time with a new encounter, to see what happens and what will kill you, in the end you might suprise yourself and down something but if not you'll definitely know what's in store for you next time. Sure it's costs a few gold to learn that way but money will pretty much roll in once you have the encounters down and can farm them. The other thing that helped a lot was setting a limit for myself on deaths per try, run in die 5 times to trash or whatever, go do some dailys and try something else, it kept me from getting frustrated and burnt out. Try to find tank and spank boss fights that are first, getting one boss down is a nice pick me up after being mashed into the ground a couple times by trash in some instance.
What I did in the beginning was just to target specific bosses that I knew were easier and farmed for gear, and just progressively worked up from there.
I started with Drak'Tharon Keep, skipping Novos for a while. I soon graduated up to Gundrak and Utgarde Keep.
The biggest thing I did to prepare though, was that once my team hit 80, I started PUG-ing groups with my Paladin to collect Emblems and Gear, and learn the strategies for the bosses, that way I had a leg up when I started running them with my own guys.
YOu are way overgeared for being a heroic-starter. You just need to work out the tactics.
I remember longing for my tank to be at 20k hp.
You can see in my sig how my conquered heroic path is going..... much faster now that I'm way overgeared (pally is 35k HP buffed). As was stated, heroics are brute forceable in many cases these days.
535 defense is enough for heroics, more doesn't hurt though, you still get nice avoidance from defense rating.
As for hit rating, check out wowwikis spell hit page, its pretty nice and detailed (heroics = mob level 82 hit rating requirements).
Under geared Bears are hard to heal. Try snagging some PvP gear if you can, If you're using greens, get the crafted PvP set, the resilience will help a little.
Stack Agility -> Stamina -> Dodge -> Armor
Too many bears try to go full stamina, this just makes you a mana sponge and doesn't actually help you in your situation.
Make a "Oh SHIT" macro for your bear:
I use this:
Remember to pop Barkskin whenever you want, it's a 60 second CD, use it often.Code:/cast Barkskin
/cast Survival Instincts
Also, try out this tanking macro:
If you lose aggro spamming this macro, your tank is dead. I've main tanked everything from Naxx 10 to Yogg 25 man with this macro. It needs a little help keeping Lacerates up, but for heroics, you really need it. Also, I don't tank trash with this macro, I only tank bosses with it when boxing. For boxing trash, I just spam swipe.Code:/cast maul
/castsequence reset=3 Mangle (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Lacerate, Mangle (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), Faerie Fire (Feral)(), Mangle (Bear)(), Lacerate, Swipe (Bear)()
Also, make sure you're specced for bear. If you need help with talents, ask away. I see far too many bears running around in cat specs.
If you have any bear questions, feel free to ask.
ok so my tank needs a minimum of 435 defence
my casters need 158 hit (6%) for level 82 bosses
Druid is maxed with balance of power and heroic presence Talent 6% HP 1%
Shammy has HP 1% Elemental percision 3% (if i take IFF from druid + 3%) so maxed no hit needed or is 53 if no IFF
Mage has 1% HP 3% percision so same as shammy capped with IFF or 53 hit if not.
Hopefully i got that right:)
The Defense 'minimum' makes you uncrittable, the hit ratings make you 'never miss'. It's definitely not the minimum to enter Heroics.
Just start with the easier ones (Like Nexus, UK) and see what you can and can't do.
Sure it helps to have that stats, and it can make a big difference on the bigger bosses/harder heroics, but on the starter heroics not so much.
God I love this community. I was so bummed out last night after an embarrassing fail in UTK. Once I get some more gear I'll charge back in.
Gundrak and Drak'Tharon are EASIER than UTK! NICE!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalros
So I'll probably run my team through the normal mode, get the hang of the dungeons flow there, and then take the tank in with a PUG.
Isn't resilience useless in instances now?
Honestly, I wouldn't bother. First time I did Gundrak was on normal. Read the strats here and just remember you need a way to quickly remove poisons.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedreameater
My team is still only 64 for my highest group, so I haven't done and heroics, but I would have thought VH would be the easiest just based on encounter mechanics!
I'm still having issues killing the flying guy in Helfire Ramparts
VH doesn't give you time to recover very well after the poop starts hitting the fan. And if you die you start over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aethon
And to the OP, I have a pally team and with that I found I can clear UK and Nexus. The easiest boss I have fought is the first one in UP.
Your defense at 435 is very low. The target for heroics is 535 I believe.
VH is a bitch while learning boss fights as you have to clear trash everytime you wipe. Problem with UTK is that the first boss is the hardest. I definatley found CoS and gundrak easiest when undergeared - drak was only difficult until I figured out how not to die to the trash at the start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whowantstoknow
Call me slow, but this is the cockblock of DTK for me, it's just a huge PITA. Whats the secret?
Shadow void only has a 30yd range
Frost Tombs is what makes this one the hardest but with a melee team that has divine storm...pfft...what frost tombs? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Whowantstoknow
Not sure on your team makeup Svper, but I'm setup as a Pally tank, 3 Ele Shaman, 1 Resto. After a few hours of playing in normal DTK starting trash, then moving up to heroic, mainly those undead mages with the void zones, the trick I learned was just basically spreading out. Using the entire hallway width to my advantage, I would line my 4 shamans up, shoulder to shoulder, trying to get as close to equal spacing within reason, and the distance apart would be enough to keep only 1 toon in a void zone. Pally of course would run shadow protection, and 4 healing streams down. When a void zone would drop, I would just move the toon that got hit forward or back, and after getting some gear, I could just leave them in place, throw a riptide on the one with a well, and burn those mini casters first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Svpernova09
Although not that easy to learn in the first place, Toc normal would be an excellent way to gear up your guys if you have a bit of patience to learn the encounters. I have a second group that should hit 80 later in the week and my plan is to plow straight into ToC and farm them all a nice set of gear straight away. Ill have the option of switching in a guy or 2 from my main team if it is too hard though.
You should be fine. I did most of my lvling by grinding instances, so when i started doing heroics, it was all about knowing the pulls, and being careful. I've farmed heroics so much now that it's largely a joke, and I can afford to not be careful, like fighting General Bjarnimiljlkjlkjlakjklajkljlf (or whatever his damn name is) with his powerup buff on.
My best advice: know which mobs are tougher, and how to neutralize them (like risen drakkari soulmages in DTK, i silence them, then stun them so they cant cast their annoying GTAOE spell)
Also, get used to identifying aggro loss, and have that taunt button ready. That alone has saved me from more than a few wipes, when I noticed a mob going straight for my healer. A quick taunt, get him into your AOE, and its GG for you.
I've been having trouble with heroics. So it's bad if the shammie's hit rating is 0?
Yes it is bad if your hit is 0. There is some magic number out there that you want to get. Once you get to that point you will have a very slim chance of missing heroic bosses. Man I miss the days where totem of wrath stacked and gave 3% hit per.
Hit is the stat that will give you the best average* dps gain until you cap it - most casters have some form of passive hit talents so to get to the hit cap for heroics really is not difficult at all
EDIT: I was confused by what you meant, I'll read strats and hope for the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltimar
Thanks!
Are you talking about boxing fresh 80s in ToC? Isn't that stupid hard? (sorry, noob here) Do you mean heroic or normal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clone
What I did when I started heriocs, using a pali tank, was to gear em up with daunting handguard, daunting legplates and the rest was tempered saronite gear.
You need 535 def to avoid crits but if yer a lil under its not that big of a deal
With herioc UK first boss all yeh really gotta do is make sure all yer guys can cast on each other put em in a semi circle and have em use /target frost tomb in there dps macro. If yeh use melee use the interact button the whole time with /target frost tomb makes it really easy. If yeh have a pali use the shadow resist aura helps with those shadowbolts.
ToC normal is not really that demanding on gear - it is more of a skill and tactics check
Phase 3 on The Black Knight is probably the closest to being a gear check but most people here do not have trouble with it. Also if you have the gear you do not need to purge renew on paletress though it still makes it easier.
Normal drops iLevel 200 epics (same as the last boss in other heroics) so is a super fast way to gear up if you can handle it.
With a mix of ToC normal and conquest badge farming you will outgear heroics very quickly
On normal, maybe. On heroic he just rapes your entire group with that aoe crap. I would say people have trouble with itQuote:
Originally Posted by Whowantstoknow
I got through the mounted part of ToC normal fine as a fresh 80. But the melee part kicked my ass. Seemed like one hit and my pally tank was down to 15% health. Didn't even get a chance to implement a tactic. It was basically, get aggro, oh crap heal, oh crap I'm dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whowantstoknow
I got some crafted epics and trying some other heroics to get more gear before going back to ToC.