New Computer

Hi;

After many months of watching this site and drooling over 5 boxers etc, i've decided to join them! In the past, I've had experiance with 2 boxing multiple classes as means of Raf'ing myself, but due to computer limitations i've been unable to take it further.

After some research on the net I've been looking into this computer: http://www.cube247.co.uk/?customise=2
After talking with MiRai on Irc they stated that they feel the graphics card and ram would be a little taxing, but if i upgraded them i would be able to 5 box no problem. However the issue of Dalaran and northrend came up, specifically if the computer could handle it.
I'm hoping by posting here i could get a little more insight into how you feel the computer would preform under these circumstances. All in all, I'm not to fussed about the dalaran issue, however I would like to know how this would preform in Av and 25 man raids as that is what i'm hoping to do!
The options for upgrading the ram and graphics card are found below the computer specs on the wep page above, however if you feel that they won't support what i'm looking for either, please let me know http://www.dual-boxing.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

According to Sychosys on irc, new intel chips are being released shortly, so i'm hoping this will bring the price of the package down.

However; If anyone thinks i'm looking in the wrong place for the wrong thing and knows a better site or company to go through, please do share, But i live in the Uk, so all american websites etc that most people use on the forums are out of the question.


Thankyou in advance,
-Dean

I know you would like to keep the price down, but to handle 5 boxing in the top tier areas, you need:
8 gigs of RAM which means 64 bit OS. Try to get a free upgrade to windows 7 when you buy Vista. If you can put it off say 2 months then Win7 will be out.
Better Graphics card A 9500 is on the weak side, are you using dual monitors? Ask what options they have.

On a side note, My current computer has AMD Athlon 64 x2 dual core processor 5000+ 2/60 ghz, 8gb ram, vista 64...

Do you think i could add more to this instead of buying a complete new system? Would it be cheaper possibly?

Also, let me know if you need more info, not very experianced in this sector :P

Edit; Yes, when i start 5 boxing, i would be looking to use a dual monitor set up :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deann

On a side note, My current computer has AMD Athlon 64 x2 dual core processor 5000+ 2/60 ghz, 8gb ram, vista 64...

Do you think i could add more to this instead of buying a complete new system? Would it be cheaper possibly?

Also, let me know if you need more info, not very experianced in this sector :P

Edit; Yes, when i start 5 boxing, i would be looking to use a dual monitor set up :)

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Depending on your motherboard it could be as simple as dropping in a new processor, or getting another motherboard/processor.

Check out CPU-Z: http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php to give us some more information on your system so you don't have to open it up.

Quote:

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Better Graphics card A 9500 is on the weak side,

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This isn't Crysis, this is World of Warcraft. You don't need one of the newest graphics cards out there just to play it (granted, you might be going up to five clients, but you can tweak settings/fps to improve performance. The game doesn't have to run with all the highest settings).

For over a year I've been five boxing on a ''lowly'' 9600GT. There's nothing that says you can't drop in another graphics card.

Processor 1 ID = 0
Number of cores 2 (max 2)
Number of threads 2 (max 2)
Name AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+
Specification AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+
Package Socket AM2 (940)
Extended CPUID F.6B
Core Stepping BH-G2
Technology 65 nm
Core Speed 2600.2 MHz
Multiplier x FSB 13.0 x 200.0 MHz
HT Link speed 1000.1 MHz
Stock frequency 2600 MHz
Instructions sets MMX (+), 3DNow! (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, x86-64
L1 Data cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L1 Instruction cache 2 x 64 KBytes, 2-way set associative, 64-byte line size
L2 cache 2 x 512 KBytes, 16-way set associative, 64-byte line size
FID/VID Control yes
Max FID 13.0x
Max VID 1.350 V

Chipset
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Northbridge NVIDIA GeForce 8200 rev. A2
Southbridge NVIDIA ID075C rev. A2
Memory Type DDR2
Memory Size 8192 MBytes
Channels Dual
Memory Frequency 325.0 MHz (CPU/8)
CAS# latency (CL) 5.0
RAS# to CAS# delay (tRCD) 5
RAS# Precharge (tRP) 5
Cycle Time (tRAS) 15
Bank Cycle Time (tRC) 20
Command Rate (CR) 2T

Memory SPD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIMM # 1
SMBus address 0x50
Memory type DDR2
Module format Regular UDIMM
Manufacturer (ID) (0000000000000000)
Size 2048 MBytes
Max bandwidth PC2-6400 (400 MHz)
Part number
Number of banks 1
Data width 64 bits
Correction None
Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
EPP no
XMP no

I have 4 ram chips of 2gb

Graphics
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of adapters 1

Graphic APIs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

API NVIDIA NVAPI
API NVIDIA I/O

Display Adapters
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Display adapter 0
Manuf. API index 0
Display name \\.\DISPLAY1
Name NVIDIA GeForce 8200
Revision A2
PCI device bus 2 (0x2), device 0 (0x0), function 0 (0x0)
Vendor ID 0x10DE (0x1849)
Model ID 0x849 (0x849)
Performance Level 3D Applications
Core clock 500.0 MHz
Shader clock 1500.0 MHz
Memory clock 0.0 MHz


Software
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Windows Version Microsoft Windows Vista (6.0) Home Premium Edition Service Pack 1 (Build 6001)


Let me know if i've missed anything you need.. A lot of info on that report, may have missed some

Could you tell me the model of the motherboard under the mainboard tab, just so I can look it up?

http://www.hdimage.org/images/sslsyehkvk3ahf6idtx.jpg

Nice motherboard, I wish I had picked that one on my first build, instead of some cheap msi board. For you, it looks like you could take the latest AM3 CPU and plop it in there/flash the bios and run around crazy!

(From the research I've done, AM3 CPUs will work in AM2+ sockets, and your motherboard has support for AM2+ CPUs, so it SHOULD work. More research definitely won't hurt.)

Best thing about this upgrade path for right now - you don't have to change any other specs in your system!

edit: just a quickie link to one of the least expensive phenom II CPUs on newegg (for reference) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103650

Nice, Thank you very much for your help :D

i've looked a bit on amazon, and found this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-HDX810WF...931649&sr=8-12

I'm pretty sure it's the same one.. But I'd feel better to have your approval xD

Also, with the new cpu, what kind of preformance in terms of boxing could i expect do you think?

Yeah, it's pretty much the same.

Oh, and upon looking at your motherboard's supported CPU list, you will not/should not have any issues with that CPU (You could always get a different one, it looks like all the Phenom II's are supported). You WILL have to update your BIOS.

As far as performance, I don't really have much experience. The Phenom II as I am aware is the BEST bang-for-buck processor out there right now. I was fine five-boxing TBC on an original Phenom 9850 at stock speed. So I don't think you can really go wrong with the Phenom II.

Link to your motherboard's Supported CPU list: http://www.asrock.com/mb/cpu.asp?Model=K10N78

Ok, thank you very much... Helped me a lot with my issues... /salute to you my friend!

Would just like to do a final check before i commit to buying ><

This will run 5 clients while being smooth in Av/northrend/raids etc?

~Dean

I can't give a honest guarantee on that. All I can say with my current knowledge that it's one of the best-for-your-buck purchases.

For your current set up it is a sizable upgrade, and smooth performance is more than just a high-end CPU, other parts of your system come into play, for instance you're using onboard video for gaming.

If you're satisfied with your current set up for right now, I urge you to do more research, don't just take my word for it. That's like saying a guy on the internet told you to invest in Enron right before it tanked. Get some opinions from more experienced users on overclocking forums (overclock.net is one, hardforum.com is another (although you need a non-hotmail/yahoo/gmail email address to register). Read some reviews/i7 comparisons (here is one: http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=794&page=1).

The biggest reason I urge this is so you can decide what is best and what will fit your needs. Will you need a black edition CPU with an unlocked multiplier, or will you need a regular processor? I'm sure there are some Phenom II users on this board, maybe if they see this thread and leave some input.

Ok, Thank you :)

I'll order it tommow and go from there :D Can't thank you enough for your help ;)

I did edit my post above to point out some things, but let us know how it works out! Make sure to take before/after notes on performance so you can see how good the upgrade was!

Ok, I'll take note and do a bit more research but with my limited knowledge on setting things up, i'm welcoming all sources of help :P

Right now i can barely do 2 chars when 1 is in northrend, I start to lagg, my cpu just can't handle it... I spoke with some on irc and they confirmed that it should be able to hold up 5, but i may initially start with 4 just incase.

After looking into overclocking, I'm not experianced enough to jump onto that boat yet.. Possibly in the future when i look to getting a new computer altogether, but for now i'm happy with the research etc on the Phenom.

As for the Cpu, From researching into Phenom II and the i7, and for me the price difference between them and certain results shown in the link you posted, personally don't justify the extra costs i would have.. I would possibly consider an i7 in a new pc, but as i'm upgrading my current one, for now i'll stick with the Phenom.

As for the black edition version of Phenom, I feel at the moment there is no need for an unlocked multiplier as at this time i have no intetions of attempting to overclock as i'm a noob at it... However; after looking into the black edition in terms of specs against the normal one suggested earlier, Would the black version be compatible with my computer?

The link posted earlier which you said would be fine,
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-HDX810WF...931649&sr=8-12
This states Quad core, where as my computer is dual core, Or is it i'm missing something and x2 Dual Core is a quad core?

Also, if anyone else has something to say.. Please do, Would like as much feedback etc as possible!

Your current processor is a Dual core, yes. The one you want to get is a quad core. We're switching out processors, going from a dual to a quad.

Yes, the black edition should be compatible, as the only difference between a black/non black is that the CPU multiplier is locked on the non-black. What does this mean to you? It's easier to overclock.

Also, keep in mind that you're using onboard video, which isn't exactly the best in the world. In addition to a new processor, I'd suggest looking into a newer graphics card. Ati has some of the best bang-for-buck graphics cards out there. Remember, Northrend can be pretty graphically intensive. While the CPU will definitely allow you to run five clients, upgrading your GPU (among other things, but your onboard is pretty weak) will allow you to get more performance while running five.


teehee. My system is all Intel/Nvidia and I'm recommending AMD/ATI products. Well, it's not like I'm a great big fanboy.

Link to one of the less expensive 4850s (Lower end of ati's newer graphics cards): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sapphire-111...1946161&sr=1-5

Just to mention: right now with the above CPU/GPU we're sitting at right around 200Euros. (pre tax/shipping)

Quote:

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As for the Cpu, From researching into Phenom II and the i7, and for me the price difference between them and certain results shown in the link you posted, personally don't justify the extra costs i would have.. I would possibly consider an i7 in a new pc, but as i'm upgrading my current one, for now i'll stick with the Phenom.

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Can't say I looked to make sure your mobo can run it - but assuming you can, there is really no reason to go i7 instead of the cheaper upgrade to a phenom II. Anandtech.com just had a nice review on the most recent Phenom II. Short version is that it outperformed the 9650 by a fair bit and was much cheaper. It traded blows back and forth with the i7 920 depending on application. When you concider the price of a i7 mobo vs a Phenom II mobo, then the Phenom II was a fair amount cheaper. If I was only looking at buying new, I'd probably still go i7 because it should have a long future upgrade path, but when money is a concern and you already have a AM2+ mobo, then I wouldn't think twice about going AMD. You won't be loosing anything CPU wise.

I think you already have 8GB of RAM, so you're good there. GPU and amount of video memory will be the next thing to check. For a lot of the northrend stuff and dalaran you'll probably want at least 1GB of video memory. But I;m still running a 8800GT with 512MB of memory and it works - just have to lower settings quite a bit (slaves are all as low as they can go).

I'd suggest something like http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sapphire-RAD...946855&sr=1-22 instead, or http://www.amazon.co.uk/PEAK-RADEON-...947012&sr=1-31 if you want to spend a little more.

Hehe, Thanks for the clarification on that :) Nearly 4 am here, so forgive my mistakes :D

After comparing the differences between the black edition and the normal edition, Black offers upgrades and the potential for easier overclocking should i need to in the future... And looking on Amazon, a £20 difference between the 2 I have chosen to get the black edition.
The one i'm looking at is:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-HDZ940XC...1946249&sr=1-2
Please don't hesitate to inform me if i'm wrong :P

Also, yes i'm aware that with upgrading my computers cpu etc, I will upgrade my graphics card also.
As it happens, i have a Nvidia geforce 9600 gt spare, but I'm unsure as to whether it is any good with the cpu or if it's even compatible... Where can i see what kind of graphics cards are compatible with my motherboard?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deann

Hehe, Thanks for the clarification on that :) Nearly 4 am here, so forgive my mistakes :D

After comparing the differences between the black edition and the normal edition, Black offers upgrades and the potential for easier overclocking should i need to in the future... And looking on Amazon, a £20 difference between the 2 I have chosen to get the black edition.
The one i'm looking at is:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-HDZ940XC...1946249&sr=1-2
Please don't hesitate to inform me if i'm wrong :P

Also, yes i'm aware that with upgrading my computers cpu etc, I will upgrade my graphics card also.
As it happens, i have a Nvidia geforce 9600 gt spare, but I'm unsure as to whether it is any good with the cpu or if it's even compatible... Where can i see what kind of graphics cards are compatible with my motherboard?

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The 9600GT (with 512MB RAM) is the EXACT card I used for over a year. The only concern you would have with a graphics card is if it's AGP or PCIE, and I don't think any AGP 9600GT cards were ever made ( or if any 9xxx series cards were made with AGP). The second concern I'd have is if you can power it. For more details specs on your motherboard, here's the page for it: http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...10N78&s=AM2%2b . The 9600GT is a PCIE card, your motherboard has one PCIE slot.

Read the above as: You shouldn't have an issue with the 9600GT, unless you have a power supply with a low wattage rating. (Read: Less than 400W, power requirements taken from Nvidia's page on the 9600GT)

I think you'll see a noticeable difference even now if you plopped in the 9600GT. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jak3676

Can't say I looked to make sure your mobo can run it - but assuming you can, there is really no reason to go i7 instead of the cheaper upgrade to a phenom II. Anandtech.com just had a nice review on the most recent Phenom II. Short version is that it outperformed the 9650 by a fair bit and was much cheaper. It traded blows back and forth with the i7 920 depending on application. When you concider the price of a i7 mobo vs a Phenom II mobo, then the Phenom II was a fair amount cheaper. If I was only looking at buying new, I'd probably still go i7 because it should have a long future upgrade path, but when money is a concern and you already have a AM2+ mobo, then I wouldn't think twice about going AMD. You won't be loosing anything CPU wise.

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I just looked into the i7 vs the black edition of Phenom... and the difference in price is about £50. What kind of performance increases in terms of wow do you think would happen if i spent the little bit extra and assuming my motherboard can handle it (Which i will need to do a bit research on i think).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-i7-920...1946905&sr=1-1
This is the i7

http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-HDZ940XC...1946249&sr=1-2

This is the Phenom II

For a £50 difference I could possibly entertain the idea of getting an i7.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sajuuk

Read the above as: You shouldn't have an issue with the 9600GT, unless you have a power supply with a low wattage rating. (Read: Less than 400W, power requirements taken from Nvidia's page on the 9600GT)

I think you'll see a noticeable difference even now if you plopped in the 9600GT. :)

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This then raises the issue of the case :) Currently the case i have doesn't have enough room for it at the moment, but the case is wearing down, so I could also entertain of using the graphics card and buying a new case.

Edit; the current power pack on my pc reads at 230v.... which would incure me having to purchase a new one of those also... Prices are rising everywhere >.>
Edit 2; According to Amazon, power packs that have 500v ish are like.. £20, So either i've read the wrong thing on my power pack or it really sucks -_-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deann

I just looked into the i7 vs the black edition of Phenom... and the difference in price is about £50. What kind of performance increases in terms of wow do you think would happen if i spent the little bit extra and assuming my motherboard can handle it (Which i will need to do a bit research on i think).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-i7-920...1946905&sr=1-1
This is the i7

http://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-HDZ940XC...1946249&sr=1-2

This is the Phenom II

For a £50 difference I could possibly entertain the idea of getting an i7.

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Keep in mind if you go i7 you WILL need a new motherboard, the processor, and new RAM. i7 motherboards take DDR3, not DDR2.

Did a quickie build on the minimum you would need to switch to i7 - £549.33 (roughly 390 Euros more than just upgrading your CPU)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...A17AS5ETPMZ9A1
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...A25P672H5P8ME9

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deann

This then raises the issue of the case :) Currently the case i have doesn't have enough room for it at the moment, but the case is wearing down, so I could also entertain of using the graphics card and buying a new case.

As per the wattage rating, Where would i be able to view what power is being pumped into my pc?

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You could take out the PSU/side of the case and see if you can see any numbers on the side.

And the 230v is not the power of your PSU, it's just a switch so your PSU can accept the voltage going through your building. (USA electronics take things at about 110V, whereas europeans get 230v.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deann

For a £50 difference I could possibly entertain the idea of getting an i7.

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If you're considering switching to a new platform, I suggest waiting till next week when Intel's new CPUs and motherboard chipset will be released, probably on Sept. 8.

The best single resource I know for comparing this stuff on a bang-for-buck basis is the price-performance system graphs on techreport.com. They will probably publish a new one with the new CPUs and the older CPUs you've been considering on Sept. 8, or shortly after Sept. 8.

Here's an example of the kind of graph they publish (the second one compares price-performance for entire computers):

http://techreport.com/articles.x/17402/13

With the increasing amount of things changing etc, Again, the possiblity of a new build comes to mind...

If i get the new mobo, ram and i7, and salvage things like my hdd, monitor etc I think it would be able to be pulled off.

Would the 6gb ram be enough to healthily 5 box?

@Freddie, I will wait the week and see if the prices come down, Because every little helps xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deann

With the increasing amount of things changing etc, Again, the possiblity of a new build comes to mind...

If i get the new mobo, ram and i7, and salvage things like my hdd, monitor etc I think it would be able to be pulled off.

Would the 6gb ram be enough to healthily 5 box?

@Freddie, I will wait the week and see if the prices come down, Because every little helps xD

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The biggest issues I had with 6Gb was while in dalaran, other than that it's quite doable. BUT, even if you did upgrade to i7, we still might be looking at switching cases/power supplies as it is. So while you may get more performance with i7, it would end up being a lot more out of your pocket. And while I ended up doing something just like what you're considering (Switching to i7), I don't know how your finances are for you, so I'd say go the less expensive route. Keep in mind I had moved back in with my mother, with almost zero expenses, waiting for the money to come in from my job so I could upgrade.

I don't know if prices of existing i7 systems will fall, but there will be new i7 chips next week that use cheaper motherboards and their performance may be comparable to the i7-920. We won't know until next week when Intel's news embargo ends and benchmarks get published.

Intel is also going to release new mid-range CPUs which may force AMD to lower prices to remain competitive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sajuuk

The biggest issues I had with 6Gb was in dalaran, other than that it's quite doable.

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That would be no problem, I don't mind hearthing 2 at a time or w/e it takes ;P


Also - I think for now, with the increasing prices etc that it will take to get all the different options with the new mobo, i7, ram, etc etc I feel it's too much of a sink to pull out at this time and would feel more comfortable sticking with what i have, and upgrading to Black edition Phenom II. Also I think i'll look at getting a different case that will neatly accomodate the graphics card along with upgrading the powerpack if it is needed.. (I'll check later, but don't want to go inside the case at this time!)

Also, due to the unknown nature of whether this will support 5 boxing, I don't mind cutting down to 4, as that is probably a better number to group with friends or whatever ;)

The price of the black edition Phenom II is £160 at the moment with free shiping, and i'm hoping that price will go down in the next few weeks with the release of the new chips.


Edit; Thank you all for your help - however it's coming up to 5 am, and I need to grab at least a few hours sleep :p Thank you for your help and i'll be on more tommorow to possibly continue this discussion :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deann

That would be no problem, I don't mind hearthing 2 at a time or w/e it takes ;P


Also - I think for now, with the increasing prices etc that it will take to get all the different options with the new mobo, i7, ram, etc etc I feel it's too much of a sink to pull out at this time and would feel more comfortable sticking with what i have, and upgrading to Black edition Phenom II. Also I think i'll look at getting a different case that will neatly accomodate the graphics card along with upgrading the powerpack if it is needed.. (I'll check later, but don't want to go inside the case at this time!)

Also, due to the unknown nature of whether this will support 5 boxing, I don't mind cutting down to 4, as that is probably a better number to group with friends or whatever ;)

The price of the black edition Phenom II is £160 at the moment with free shiping, and i'm hoping that price will go down in the next few weeks with the release of the new chips.

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The only problems was windows started dipping into my page file, making performance somewhat laggy. And good idea (voiced be everyone) to wait for prices to drop with the new release. God knows how common price drops are, and how often we kick ourselves in the butt for not waiting a little bit.

upgrade vs buy new - always a fun argument :)

I think the upgrade would probably still be a bit cheaper for you. You already have the mobo and RAM, but sounds like you'd be buying a new case, power supply and CPU. if you haven't started multi-boxing yet, the 9600GT should last you at least until you get to northrend.

Of course if you buy an all new system then you can always do some amount of splitting between hardware and software multiboxing. :)

i5 series CPUs and mobos should be out soon, ATI could be releasing new GPUs soon as well. Of course the longer you wait, better the hardware will get.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jak3676

upgrade vs buy new - always a fun argument :)

I think the upgrade would probably still be a bit cheaper for you. You already have the mobo and RAM, but sounds like you'd be buying a new case, power supply and CPU. if you haven't started multi-boxing yet, the 9600GT should last you at least until you get to northrend.

Of course if you buy an all new system then you can always do some amount of splitting between hardware and software multiboxing. :)

i5 series CPUs and mobos should be out soon, ATI could be releasing new GPUs soon as well. Of course the longer you wait, better the hardware will get.

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The 9600GT is not a bad GPU. It's lasted me all the way through TBC/Wrath (well, I didn't do much raiding past naxx), both five and single boxing, across two builds. The only reason I upgraded was for folding@home, not gaming.

For right now - we're only looking at a new CPU, case is probable, we're not sure about the power supply.

Oh, Deann, pictures of your current system(inside and out) are always welcome, if available. Just because I like looking at naked computers.

I don't have the camera at the moment but i'll be able to get some photos tommorow to you :)

After thinking with a clear head, and talking with family, I feel that upgrading a little bit may not be enough for what i am asking, and pulling a little bit more out for a new build is a possibility.

Ok - after research i think i have found a decent computer build. Can you review it and let me know what you think, especially if i need to change something?


Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATAII 16MB Cache 3.5 inch Internal Hard Drive OEM
Colors-IT 650w Titan 12CM Neon Power Supply
Black Ultimate PC Gaming Case, LCD Temp & Fan Monitor
Intel i7-920 (Nehalem) Quad Core Processor - 2.66 GHz,8MB L3 Cache,1333MHz FSB,Socket 1366,45 nm,3 Year Warranty,Retail Boxed
Asus P6T Deluxe Skt 1366 X58 : 90-MIB600-G0EAY00Z
Corsair (TR3X6G1600C8D) 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz XMS3 Dominator Memory CL8(8-8-8--24) for i7
Lg Gh22np20 Auaa50b 22x Dvdrw Bare Black
BFG 9500GT 1GB DDR2 PCI-E Graphics Card (For this - I don't know if this is more or less powerful than the 9600 with 512 mb, so feel free to input)

the total price of all of this comes to 730, However with more research and finding cheaper companies, waiting for chip prices to fall etc, i don't mind paying this. I can't help but feel there is something missing either..

If i have miss matched something that will go terrible wrong, please share :).
I'll most likely be getting Vista 64 with it also, if that helps.. Price not included.

The 9500 is a lesser card than the 9600. even if it does come with more memory. That looks to be your weakest link in the build - but it should still work fine. You'll just need to upgrade the GPU first.

Thought so, just thought i'd make sure ;)

Just did another little check... What is your opinion on;

Inno3D nVIDIA GeForce 9800GT Graphics Card - 1GB GDDR3 - PCI-E - 256-Bit - Dual DVI - VISTA READY - 600MHz GPU - 1800MHz Memory clock - HDCP - HDTV

Edit; I don't know how much power this needs, as it isn't stated anywhere obvious that i can see.. Would i need to upgrade my power unit for this do you know?

Looks to be a much better card than the 9500 - a jump up from the 9600 as well. It should work fine with your 650 watt power supply. I'd guess with everything in your PC maxed out, you'd still be under 600 watts. Maybe I'm just not an NVidia fan - but I'd still look at the ATI 4850 instead of the NVidia 9800. Some may disagree, but I think Tom's hardware generally does a pretty good ranking of cards. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...rd,2387-3.html I listed two cards up in post 18 that I'd go with instead of the 9800 GT. If you really like Nvidia, then I'd gow with http://www.amazon.co.uk/PALIT-896MB-...1988411&sr=1-4, but to me it's more expensive than the 1GB 4870 and performs slightly less,

If you wanted to give youself some more headroom for future expansion you could always upgrade to 700 or 750 watts, but it's really not necessary. Still, if it's $5-$10 more it may be worth it. But if they want $50 to go from 650 to 700 watts, then don't bother. Really depends who you're ordering from I guess.

Hmm, Wouldn't harm in checking...

I'll be going through a company that a friend has connections in, so i'll look into the price difference between the 650 and 700+ ones, as for a low upgrade price i don't mind paying the little bit extra for the "headroom", Thank you for the suggestion :D

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Originally Posted by Deann

On a side note, My current computer has AMD Athlon 64 x2 dual core processor 5000+ 2/60 ghz, 8gb ram, vista 64...

Do you think i could add more to this instead of buying a complete new system? Would it be cheaper possibly?

Also, let me know if you need more info, not very experianced in this sector :P

Edit; Yes, when i start 5 boxing, i would be looking to use a dual monitor set up :)

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Your current rig is close to the same specs as my 2nd PC. I have a Athlon 64 X2 7750, 4GB ram and Radeon 4850 1GB running Win7. I play 2 alts on a 20" widescreen monitor rotated 90° CCW on that rig.

My "main" rig is a Q6600 with 8GB ram, Radeon 4850X2 2GB and Win 7. Main toon is on a 19" and 2 alts on another 20" rotated 90° CW.

2 keyclone licences, one license for Input Director and one 3-PC license of Kavoom! KM software, both rigs CAT5 connected to the router and its like using one rig in game. I also setup my laptop for web searching quests etc. With Input Director and KaVoom! all I have to do is mouse through the top of my main's screen and the cursor transitions to the bottom of the laptop's, putting mouse/keyboard focus there until I mouse back.

This may be a more cost effective route for you to consider.

On a side note, I started out with the 4850 1GB in my main rig and a 3870 1GB in my alt PC. I really don't see much difference between the X2 and the 1GB on my main. I had hopes that I could run 3 monitors from it in WoW, but no such luck. I dont know if its impossible or that I'm not technically inclined enough at this point to get it to work. Had my 3870 not been donated to a rig I built my son for his birthday, I would have stayed with that setup and been equally as happy.

At the moment, my current pc can only hold 1 in northrend, 2 and I die. I did originally consider this, but then i'd need to update my cpu and graphics card in this computer, as well as getting another computer to be able to hold the other chars... And i came to the conclusion that with all the costs etc that would occur updating this, as well as getting a second pc, with the software to link them etc, for me, at the end of the day i don't feel it could be cheaper this way than building a new computer.

However; If i've completly missed your point, or missed something out that can be vital, please let me know, as i'm all up for different suggestions :)