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Im curently 4 boxing 4 shamans (named after the ninja turtles :)) but i have a freind that has a 30 pally and he said i can have him. hes only 3 levels behind but i could spec him prot. would this be better for leveling via instances? Currently what i do is have 70's run me through over and over and its pretty good exp.but that will only last till so long. So should i take the slower rout and level this guy up with me?
your already taking the slow route by running urself through instances like that, so do as you please.
Slow route? its very fast. I was told thats how Aeill leveld up. He said it was the fastest...
Aeill leveled before 2.3, quest XP past 20 makes it far more quicker than leveling instances.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT
Iv also done way to many red quests. i dont know where to go. every kill quest in barrens, stonetallen, STV, 1k needles are done...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT
download joanas guide, if you want to be nice get it from her site, joanasworld.com
if you are poor you might be able to get it for free from other places but i wouldnt condone violating copywrites :wink:
Its a guide completely filled with quest stacking, it will say go hear, accept these quests, run into the world, do them in this order to complete them the quickest.
so is that no to the pally?
I'm currently leveling a prot pally and having a blast. I have a 48 war but for now pally is going to be my main tank. Leveling him as prot is very easy with a pocket healer and aoe grinding leveling goes very fast.
4 Shamans=no aoe really :(
Everyone's giving you bad advice. I would suggest they try to actually multibox this group composition before shooing other people away from it. Or at least give reasoning to your logic. The forums are here to share information, not to be snotty little brats because someone doesn't use the "perfect spec" or the "perfect leveling route". It's a game, people like to have fun with it, now play nice boys.
Prot pally + shaman works fine, aoe is fine -- the problem with magma totems/fire nova totems is keeping the aggro off the totems (since they have 5hp and are easily 1-shot by critters). Have the pally consecrate and you can aoe away. (Psh. Shaman have no aoe. Yeah. Right.)
Check my sig for 4x shaman 1x prot pally videos (pre-RFD I used a warrior and swapped the pally in and out since I already had a prot pally leveled to 40 prior to multi-boxing)
As for the ability of a 4x shaman 1x prot pally to perform in comparison to a more "standard" group, let's compare Suvega's 1x war, 3x mage, 1x priest group with mine. I was able to clear Ramps at 61 (dinged 62 upon downing the last boss) while Suvega struggled with 3 mages, a 65 warrior, and a 70 tier 5 priest.
It is perfectly viable -- shamans mitigate more damage with mail so are more forgiving when pulling aggro, grounding totem is awesome spelldmg mitigation for the pally, earth shock is awesome, stoneclaw can act as a temporary CC (like the adds on Omor), ranged taunt works WONDERS, pally aoe aggro is amazing, and with almost 5 "dps"ers things go down like rocks. Chain lightning is better than aoe, imo, since it's ranged and allows time to range taunt if there's accidental aggro pulls. Everyone can rez, there's wipe protection 5x an hour counting DI.
On a side note, from 1-60 questing is WAY faster. In outlands, that would depend on how much world pvp is going on. Typically instancing alone is slower than questing... if you can go through all the quests without getting camped.
Its just these guides people post, require pre quests that iv either done or cant get. Like its so hard starting off lool. I run out of killing quests so i go to another area and then im stuck :(
Go to wowhead, and do a filter search on quests for your level. There is no possible way to have done them all. ;) I know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT
So you would sugest to add the pally? Im mainly here for PvP and a prot pally wont serve me very well...
Respec holy at 70 for PvP
If you don't want a pally, don't level the pally.
If you want a pally, it's a viable tank and a viable healer.
Step 1: decide what you want
Step 2: figure out if leveling a pally is inline with your wants
Step 3: ask forums for advice about your idea
I think you skipped step 1 and 2.
.. at 70 respec? Holy paladin isn't bad for arenas.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMNT
Bet you check the all-mighty ellay, rainer of teh totems, speaker of teh gospel of all that is pvp...
He probably had a pally healing his ass in 5s.
1. I want a kick ass 5vs5/WSG/AV/AB/EOTS/PVE(not so much PVE) 4/5boxQuote:
Originally Posted by Vyndree
2. For some things maybe yes. (I already have a 70 healadin on one of the accounts, thats what worries me.)
3. Im asking you guy slol
Well i'm doing the same, 4 shammies and a prot pally.
It wont work like that (as prot in arenas or whatever) but there is little difference in levelling a group of 5 than a group of 4 imo. My pally is on a different server, and way ahead in terms of levels atm, 61 vs 43, but I tried out prot over the last few days and I think it'll make instances breeze. Warriors are all well and good as tanks, but keeping multiple mobs stuck to you as a prot pally is soo easy.
If you want to do any PvE at all at 70, take the pally along for the ride. If not, don't bother would be my advice, seeing as you have one at 70 already.
As for levelling, boosting to 40 then a mix of mainly quests and a few boosts post 40 is working for me. There are loads of posts about which is faster, and there's no definitive conclusion yet imo.
Good Luck
Ky
i say go Druid, cuz then you dont lvl the same class again and at 70 you have 4 shamans and a boomkin! thats a extra 17% crit :)
lol the only issue is that my guys are 34 and id have to make a whole new guy and level him up. NT lol. Way to lazy to do that lol
lvling to 34 takes what? 1-2 days played? and hes a druid so you cud name him master Splinter XDQuote:
Originally Posted by TMNT
You could do a 5v5 and put the free slot up for auction :), 4 chars is still good, 3 can still pwn in BG's and if you need a tank for an instance you can press "i".
Thanks for the help :)
It's not an issue of class makeup or the "perfect group", as it was adapting to the fight. Some people multi-task better then others. This is bad comparison/argument. It's a question of the person playing the toons, vs the actual group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyndree
Fights are also situational, warrior/druid/paladin have advantages one way, vs another way. Paladins aoe tank the best, but against same boss, will take more damage vs a warrior/druid, etc... (this is also a discussion onto itself.)
If you would like to damage more than 2 mobs at the same time while holding agro. Pally is the best way to go as a multi boxer. I have a feral druid that tanks archimond but I'd hate to have a druid over my pally with 4 shadow priests or 4 ele shaman. And Range taunt is amazing for a multi boxer.
AOE side paladin was an example. Again, just so that you understand. (this is also a discussion onto itself.) I even bolded to to make it easier on your eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fursphere
I can do Heroic Ramparts fine with my Warrior, Druid or Paladin tanking. I don't need to rely on Fire Resist gear or Aura, nor do I need to pull out theories vs actually doing it.
May have been harsh on my response, problem is there's no point getting into debate about who makes the best tank, plenty of posts on worldofwarcraft.com forums. It all depends on your play style and what guild/or yourself do with what you got. (Not everyone has time, to roll every class in game to 70. I'm short a rogue 63, and shamans 44.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fursphere
My point was to counter Vyndree's argument that one person struggling with certain group makeup does not mean their makeup was bad.
My (not yet 70) team has a pally tanking for four shamans. I'm very happy with the choice to use a pally rather than a druid or warrior.
1. Amazing AoE tanking
2. Better buffs (BoK/BoW/JoW)
3. Magic is (overall) more dangerous than curses, so cleanse > decurse.
4. You can heal one of your minions in a pinch, without losing all your defensive power like a druid would.
5. Ranged taunt (not as necessary as everyone says, but still good)
6. Ridiculously easy to get and hold aggro in general
I feel like pallies, in general, are the best tanks for 5-man content, which is what you're going to tank as a multiboxer anyway.
Reading just the original post, and disregarding the two pages full of less-than-helpful comments, your ORIGINAL question distills down to this:Quote:
Im curently 4 boxing 4 shamans (named after the ninja turtles ) but i have a freind that has a 30 pally and he said i can have him. hes only 3 levels behind but i could spec him prot. would this be better for leveling via instances? Currently what i do is have 70's run me through over and over and its pretty good exp.but that will only last till so long. So should i take the slower rout and level this guy up with me?
"Would a prot spec pally be better for levelling via instances once I get beyond the instances where a level 70 can run me through?".
In a nutshell the answer is YES, it's worth taking the hit and levelling him in line with your team, even if that means swapping characters in and out with your 70 while you blitz the low level instances.
It just gives you so many more options.
Protection paladins are excellent tanks for all the 5 man content. They have strengths and weaknesses compared to Warriors and Druids, but they are excellent tanks and uniquely suited to multiboxing thanks to Consecration and other neat little tricks they can pull.
What you do with him for PvP at 70 is up to you. Either drop him and find a healer to help, only do 2v2/3v3 with your shammies, or re-spec him and try to heal yourself in a 5 man team.
Irrespective of what you do at that point, he will have served his purpose in levelling your team through instances, and opened up a whole bunch of options that you may otherwise not have had. Best of all, it will no doubt have been a whole lot more fun than just relying on that 70 to keep grinding you through.
Go for it. And have fun. Because that's what it's all about.
Fair enough, but my comparison was that a prot pally and 4 elemental shaman CAN complete instances similar to what is expected of a "balanced" group, and I used a 5-boxer as a relatively even example. I apologize if personal experience doesn't live up to your scientific expectations on experimental data. Suvega raid leads BT/Hyjal, I don't think he has a problem understanding how to 5-box Ramparts nor how to multi-task. Besides, he had a tier 5 holy priest and a level 65 prot warrior tanking, while my characters were all level 61/62. So I think things were in his favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by caldvn
The fact that my run was much smoother is just icing on the cake that I get to rub in his face since he bet that I couldn't clear the instance alone at my level. ;)
Anyway...
In some fights prot pallies shine and in some fights warriors shine. Of course that's the way things are. Druids tank other things better than prot pallies or prot warriors. There will always be tanks ideal and non-ideal for any given situation. That's life.
Personally, having used both a warrior and paladin for tanking with my 4 shaman at lvl40, the warrior took less damage and allowed for faster lightning bolt use (specced fury). However, you could use chain lightning every cooldown with the paladin, who took slightly more damage (specced prot). In this situation, a warrior would have been better. Was I unable to complete the instance with a paladin? No, I did just fine with both.
A warrior is better for classes with CC due to their single-target aggro abilities. They can function as tank or dps. They have buffs mostly for melee.
A paladin is better for classes with some form of aoe, and needs little CC. They can function as tank or healer. They have buffs for melee and casters.
A shaman (as the OP has rolled) has no CC. They can function as DPS or healer. They have buffs for melee and casters.
Now, one tank does better in specific situations, and another does better in other situations, but regardless, both can tank every instance in the game, including instances being run by a 5-boxer. Which puzzle pieces fit best together with the OP's 4 shaman?
(I'll give you a hint - they buff each other and they share CC-preferences)
Not saying it can't be done, it's just a question of the player behind the toons. My argument still stands, some box better then others, it was never question of class makeup as it was who was driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyndree
Leading raids has nothing to do with how well you multibox. You're comparing yourself with boxing 5 toons since the beginning vs another person who leveled 3 toons up and added 2 additional toons into the mix (This is how I understand it.), later, it would not surprise me that he had trouble doing something 5 man style vs 3 man style. and non-ideal for any given situation. Suvega just needs time to adapt to his group makeup, how long it takes? I don't know, how long have you been with your pally and 4 shaman group? (It wouldn't surprise me if you've been playing the same playstyle since level 50.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyndree
In the end, if you put 2 people with same multi-tasking abilities (good) and you compare a "balanced" group and an "unusual" group, you'll see that "balanced" group has more options available vs "unusual" group. But the Shaman set will have advantage in pvp vs pve environment. Pros/cons to both sides, what you do in the long run is the question. Some groups will have more trouble then others in different environments.
Play how you want to play, comparing or, I guess "rubbing" in someone's face doens't really prove how good you are.
2 points to make that are totally off-topic, but you wanted to dig into them, so here they are:
I swapped between a warrior and a prot pally at 40 and noticed ZERO difference. I've also taken over a month's break at 45 and had to re-do ALL of my macros at 45 when I picked it back up again a few weeks ago. There was little if no learning time involved. When you know the classes inside and out, this is not difficult. Suvega spent his entire time leveling in instances -- as in 60-70 ONLY instances. He already had a 70 mage, 70 priest, 65 warrior and knows the class (which is why he rolled 3 more mages). He ran ramparts more than once. I think he had time to "figure out" the 5-boxing scenario.
Raid leading ability does convert to multi-boxing ability because it's an example of how well a person is able to multi-task. Just like rubbing your belly and patting your head, or however that goes. Not a strong argument, I agree, but I'd suggest you stop attacking people's ability and start focusing on facts from now on, and I'll do the same.
1x prot pally 4x ele shammy:Quote:
Originally Posted by caldvn
- 1) 4x earth shock interrupts can take out a caster forever
2) Frontloaded threat means instant dps (ever hear "wait for sunders?"). A pally can avenger's shield + judge righteousness and the dps can instantly jump in on that target without worry of pulling aggro.
3) AoE threat means you can keep your pally focused on one target. This is particularly useful in 5-boxing since a warrior will often "tab-sunder" in order to make sure multiple targets aren't running after his priest. Due to lag with multiboxing, this can cause problems where your dps won't "pick up" the new target and will start fireball'ing your secondary target (pulling aggro and then dying).
4) Ranged taunt > melee taunt. No chasing after mobs that are already killing your squishies. This helps multiboxing particularly since movement on secondary toons is difficult at best.
5) Salv means more dps before pulling aggro, which means mob dies faster, which means tank takes less damage. Everyone is happy! Meanwhile, wisdom for long fights means less oom-ness. Kings (+devo aura) for the tank is great for boss fights, and boSac (+ret aura) for the AoE pulls turns your tank into a dps class
6) Need a dedicated healer? No problem, just use one shammy. Not taking enough damage and the healer is bored - you're instantly running with 4 dps. Considering that the prot pally is almost dpsing at the same rate as normal dps classes means you're running with ~4.5 dps instead of 3 dps, a tank, and a healer.
7) Agi/Str can up your tank's dodge and block. Windfury helps with threat. Mana keeps your tank judging more often which means more threat. Healing stream stacks and is like a teeny hot that's always ticking. Poison cleansing and disease cleansing totems are better than clicking a decursive button that's not on your main screen. Grounding totem x4 makes up for the fact that your tank doesn't have shield reflect. Stoneclaw is your secondary CC (not that you need it with a prot pally, but it helps with the 2nd boss in ramps). Stoneskin and Windwall are pretty stupid totems, but even they help make up for the fact that pallies take more damage (having spent some itemization on spelldmg for threat). Even Totem of Wrath helps those judgements turn into crits, and helps keep them from getting resisted.
8) AoE heals in the form of chain healing off yourself (or the tank) and healing stream totem. Not really a "true" aoe heal, but I've found it's more than adequate.
9) Targeted "aoe" -- chain heal -- not a true aoe as it only hits 3 people - helps keep that mob away from your casters/healers. Magma/fire nova/searing totem if something goes terribly wrong -- and those totems work great while you're chain healing off yourself as you can still dps while healing.
How about the 3x mage, 1x war, 1x priest group? And let's forget that the priest was overgeared and the warrior was 65.
- 1) 3x sheep -- a good CC, but once it breaks it's gonna run straight at your mage
2) shield slam + counterspell -- good interrupt/silence, BUT earth shock counts as dps too and has a 6sec cooldown unspecced.
3) Fort buff
4) Int buff
5) aoe dps that either has to be clicked individually in order to be ranged, or requires mobs be literally on top of the mages. This means if (or should I say WHEN, since we're talking about a warrior tank) the mage pulls aggro with arcane explosion the mob only has to take two steps to kill it. Mobility on secondary characters is hard to do, so kiting during aoe periods is not easy.
6) "true" aoe heals (circle/prayer of healing) and hots
7) Warrior threat is backloaded ("wait for sunders"), whereas mage dps is frontloaded.
8) Spell reflect. I wish the pally had this, but at least she has bubble (you can macro this so that you don't drop aggro for too long) plus 4 grounding totems and 4 earth shocks.
Can you tell me where a warrior/mage/priest team has "more options" than the pally/shammy team? I would say they're about equal, but I enjoy the playstyle of pally/shammy better. I also believe pally+shammy is better for multiboxing for most situations due to the reasons above.
Hybrids perform best with other hybrids, which is why I believe my group makeup outshines the balanced group due to the vast amount of buffing that shaman and paladin can do for each other (which makes up for their downsides, which are mostly noticable in single-player scenarios).
Agreed - although I'd like to add that it's my personal opinion that both can do adequately in both pve and pvp, though each team requires more effort in one of those two categories.Quote:
Originally Posted by caldvn
All in all very fair trade-off.
Absolutely. I believe actual achievements and real world experience prove how good you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by caldvn
No matter how good your guild is (I used to raid lead the top guild on the server), there are at least a few people in the raid who have absolutely no clue what to do. They either don't use boss mods, or are too distracted to look at them. So they never have any idea what abilities the boss is going to use and when.
I've found that when I talk everyone through the fight on vent, as it's happening. "Whirlwind in 3, back off...okay come back in", etc, the run is an order of magnitude more successful. I've actually done experiments where on some nights I talk them through, on others I don't. The nights where I walk the clueless ones through are unbelievably more successful.
Raiding is a lot more about the strat than the ability to press buttons. So I'm effectively playing their characters for them. Multiboxing is exactly like leading a raid, except that my group has 100% attendance, and there is no drama ;)
It's like in I Am Legend where he started talking to the mannequins as if they were real people. After a while, you start getting pissed at your characters as if what they did wasn't your fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fursphere
THATS A @#%ING 50 DKP MINUS!!
Haha yeah this one time Aecra ninjaed some polearm that I told Aedra to DE. Serious DKP Minus, let me tell you. Last time that girl got any blues for a long time! Multiboxing really gets you geared out though, with the loot distribution being so fair.