Emblem System Changes Per Patch Notes

According to both WoW Insider and MMO Champion:

• Both the 10 and 25 player instances of the Crusaders' Coliseum drop a new Emblem of Triumph.
• Any dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone, will now drop Emblems of Conquest instead. Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism.
• The Heroic dungeon daily quest will now reward 2 Emblems of Triumph and the normal daily dungeon quest will reward 1 Emblem of Triumph.
• The existing achievements to collect 1, 25, 50, etc. Emblems of Heroism, Valor, and Conquest have been converted to Feats of Strength since Heroism and Valor Emblems are no longer attainable.
• New achievements have been added to collect various amounts of any combination of emblems.

This is a very nice change for non raiders and/or casual raiders.

Woah. That's pretty crazy. Good for me but I definitely can see the upset. Lol, guess I won't need to join a guild anytime soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=209902#po st209902

Its basically the same thing they did in BC when the ZA badge gear went live.

Except its not new gear.

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Exactly, but they've said over and over they prefer the tiered system, this is a pretty big step back from that statement. I always figured they'd eventually keep the casuals a tier or two behind but I never figured it would equate to a one to one badge upgrade.

In the end, it's a way to get people back in 5 mans which helps up and coming players as well as alts and more importantly, adds another grind fest to the game for casuals and raiders alike. Right now, if you don't raid, even as a casual player, you're probably maxed on things to do unless you’re in to achievements.

Honestly, I don't see why raiders would be upset. I'm not: I'll be worrying about the next tier, I really couldn't care less about the older stuff. It will be nice though to get my other guys geared up in something halfway decent. Gives me a reason to start boxing heroics again. (I'm especially excited to try out boxing this new arena thing)

Well in my opinion, raiders still have the edge because you cant buy all that raid gear. As with T7, you could only buy the chest and hands, and some sparse other slot pieces with EoH. With EoV you could buy pieces for different slots again. Havent looked much into conquest but I expect it to follow the pattern. So with EoH,EoV and EoC rewards all available, should almost be able to completely gear up from Emblems alone, but still not as well as a raider in a proggessive raiding guild which is not a bad thing. Raiders still need goals that non-raiders cant get ;)

Thats good, gives us boxers more options to compete with core single players gear wise without making sacrifices in our teams, and more reason to master heroic instancing with our groups.

This is of course subject to change based on what happens on the PTR :

Emblem of Conquest lets you buy :

T8.5 "Conqueror's" chest[58] and helm[58]
S5 "Deadly Gladiator's" armor gloves[46] legs[58] shoulder[46] helm[58] chest[58]
PvE non-set armor - amulet[19] gloves[28] belt[28] pants[39]
Runed Orb[18]
Emblem of Valor[1]

Sources of badges -
3 badges from : Violet Hold, Utgarde Keep, Azjol-Nerub
4 badges from : Halls of Lightning, Halls of Stone, Oculus, Drak'Tharon, Utgarde Pinnacle
5 badges from : Gundrak, Nexus, Old Kingdom, Culling of Stratholme w/timed run
= 49 badges per day

Naxxramas gives 16 badges, OS 4, EoE 4, Vault 4 = 28 per week [28 more if you also ran these on 25 man]
+5 for the satchel from OS available on 10 and 25.


My rule of thumb is ~15 mins per badge. So if you want to buy the full T8 level PvE items available then it will take ~60 hours dedicated to farming badges.
There's also BoE boots [belts too] available made with 6 runed orbs = 108 badges [or you could just buy them].

edit: stupid emotes

As both an end-game raider and boxer, I'm not sure how much I like this change. On one hand, this makes it trivial to gear up a new team. On the other hand, it makes best-in-slot items available from heroics. The raider side of me is upset that I've been wiping in Ulduar for months to get conquest badges, orbs, tier pieces, and spent a ton of gold getting the ulduar crafted items. Granted, this change will come out in 3.2 when those items will no longer be best-in-slot, but it still seems like a huge jump. I'd prefer that they just did it one tier at a time similar to how PvP rewards drop one tier at a time. Make heroism badges obsolete and only valor drops from heroics. Then in the next patch up it again to valor -> conquest. Having three tiers gives people more incentive as you have a "starting" set, an entry-level raid set, and a high-end raid set.

That said, come 3.2 it will be really easy to gear up your characters:
Head: T8.5 (58 emblems)
Neck: i226 amulet (19 emblems)
Shoulders: T7.5 (60 emblems)
Cloak: i213 cloak (25 emblems)
Chest: T8.5 (58 emblems)
Wrist: i213 bracers (60 emblems)
Gloves: T7 (60 emblems) OR T8/T8.5 (Emalon)
Belt: i226 belt (28 emblems)
Legs: T7.5 (75 emblems) OR T8/8.5 (Emalon)
Boots: i213 (40 emblems)
Trinket1: i200 (40 emblems)
Ring1: i213 (25 emblems)
OH: i200 (25 emblems)
Relic: i213 (25 emblems)

That just leaves 1 trinket, 1 ring, weapon, and ranged (for non-relic classes) being unobtainable from emblems (unless you buy the heirloom weapon/trinket, which at level 80 would be pretty dumb)

The one thing I'm curious about is whether they'll adjust prices up/down for certain items. For example T8.5 chest is 58 emblems - T7 is 80, conquest belt is 28 - heroism belt is 40. Will they drop the heroism one to dirt cheap, up the conquest one, or just leave them the same and make the old ones completely worthless?

Yessss, my long awaited casual gear boost is finally in sight!

And there's going to be a new 5-man instance as well!

Time to start 5-boxing again!

*dances*

I'm sitting on a few BoHerosim, any idea whether they'll automatically be converted to conquest? I might just go farm BoH and not turnin to get gear until the patch goes live if they do

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Simulacra',index.php?page=Thread&postID=209977#po st209977

I'm sitting on a few BoHerosim, any idea whether they'll automatically be converted to conquest? I might just go farm BoH and not turnin to get gear until the patch goes live if they do

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I'm pretty sure I saw something in the Q&A that no, they won't "grandfather" existing badges forward.

They won't convert old badges into the higher ones cause then everyone will just farm and horde emblems until then, buy all the gear they want when the 3.2 patch comes out and not have anything else to do in 3.2. Kind of defeat the purpose for the changes in the first place. 8) I personally love this change since it will breath new life into my DK + 4x shaman team that I've pretty much geared out on non-bop raid gear. Raiders will still have access to tons of gear that non-uldar raiders can't get.

doh! mmm well I guess it's not worth hording any and I might as well just spend them on orbs then >.<
but on the upside - new shinies - nice :thumbsup:

edit: just read the notes and gotta say : YEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Even if I will be raiding in the future, I still like this change. It gives me something to shoot for when raids are over or its a class that Im not allowed to bring (say if your guild is full on mages, etc.) In fact this is the reason I recently quit my 2 level 80 groups on horde (4dk+druid, 4shaman+paladin) because once I had done all the heroic gearing... there was nothing left to do. That was before joining a casual raiding guild =) 8o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'kadaan',index.php?page=Thread&postID=209932#post2 09932

As both an end-game raider and boxer, I'm not sure how much I like this change. On one hand, this makes it trivial to gear up a new team. On the other hand, it makes best-in-slot items available from heroics. The raider side of me is upset that I've been wiping in Ulduar for months to get conquest badges, orbs, tier pieces, and spent a ton of gold getting the ulduar crafted items. Granted, this change will come out in 3.2 when those items will no longer be best-in-slot, but it still seems like a huge jump. I'd prefer that they just did it one tier at a time similar to how PvP rewards drop one tier at a time. Make heroism badges obsolete and only valor drops from heroics. Then in the next patch up it again to valor -> conquest. Having three tiers gives people more incentive as you have a "starting" set, an entry-level raid set, and a high-end raid set.

That said, come 3.2 it will be really easy to gear up your characters:
Head: T8.5 (58 emblems)
Neck: i226 amulet (19 emblems)
Shoulders: T7.5 (60 emblems)
Cloak: i213 cloak (25 emblems)
Chest: T8.5 (58 emblems)
Wrist: i213 bracers (60 emblems)
Gloves: T7 (60 emblems) OR T8/T8.5 (Emalon)
Belt: i226 belt (28 emblems)
Legs: T7.5 (75 emblems) OR T8/8.5 (Emalon)
Boots: i213 (40 emblems)
Trinket1: i200 (40 emblems)
Ring1: i213 (25 emblems)
OH: i200 (25 emblems)
Relic: i213 (25 emblems)

That just leaves 1 trinket, 1 ring, weapon, and ranged (for non-relic classes) being unobtainable from emblems (unless you buy the heirloom weapon/trinket, which at level 80 would be pretty dumb)

The one thing I'm curious about is whether they'll adjust prices up/down for certain items. For example T8.5 chest is 58 emblems - T7 is 80, conquest belt is 28 - heroism belt is 40. Will they drop the heroism one to dirt cheap, up the conquest one, or just leave them the same and make the old ones completely worthless?

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Deadly off set pices requires zero rating, only farming.

Deadly chest,shoulders,head,gloves and pants require 1300-1500 wich is nothing if you got normal pvp skills aka i would say the deadly gear is pretty much free apart from that you raid anyway.

Bad players will always be bad players even when geared equal to my shamans wich is pretty decent geared. I still wipe them in less then 15 seconds in a 5v5 match so i dont see why pro raiders go crazy when "newbs" get nearly the same gear.

Its not like a bunch of guys who played this games for 2 months and have no clue on playing the game or class will get a world first kill.

It took Blizzard 4 years before they could allow most players to see the full content of the game. (By that i mean beating all bosses on normal mode)

Next patch we get 4 different instances wich is even greater in my opinion!

10 normal
25 normal
10 heroic
25 heroic (with hard modes i guess)

/wipe tear

I like these changes. I was really getting tried of playing since I have 11 level 80s pretty much all geared it in heroic gear as best as they can be.
I was just trying to decide if I can 10x box parts of Naxx and I may still do that.

Sure, this system has its ups and downs, but for those of us that are not into the raiding scene, this actually gives me a reason to play the game again. They need ways of 5-mans to progress in some manner over the long run, though I do agree that the rewards should not compare to best-in-slot from raids. I think this system to upgrade to entry raid gear is coming at a pretty good time for those of us that have everything we want from 5-mans, but don't have the time for raiding.

Raiding needs to remain a faster means of obtaining the items, otherwise it devalues the raid content. Even if they simply add more 5-mans with greater item variety and models, that would even give me something to at least keep me entertained a while longer. I don't want to see the raiders get upset about the "welfare epics" issue again, but likewise the rest of us still want some reason to play the game. It's a balancing act that Blizzard is playing here, but if they don't do something like this, then I'd be really close to disabling my accounts right now.

Incoming partial QQ:

I wish Blizzard would pay attention to this stuff right out of the expansion rather than attempting to push out a saving throw to get people back in 5 man dungeons. They did the same exact thing in BC. Gear from heroics is harder to get and has such terrible itemization that the step from 5-man heroic gear to even naxx 10 gear is HUGE. Just like in BC when the step from heroic gear to Kara gear was huge.

If you look at the heroic 5-man gear (not including badges), their are very few options for most slots and very little room for customization of items (either through gemming or proper itemization). You may have only one epic item that is attainable to fit in your feet/shoulders/head/etc. Toss in the mix the badge gear and it is hardly worth the effort in comparison to the reward. Run heroics for 2 weeks to upgrade one piece of gear.

I would like to see Blizzard bring back the dungeon set gear and the quest chain to upgrade it to a full epic set. Have the progression of gear actually go from green -> blue -> epic, rather than green -> epic. I would be perfectly fine if heroics didn't even drop epic loot as long as the loot it did drop was at least properly itemized.

I think this would be a better solution than trying to constantly raise up the bottom gear through badges and essentially give people 25 man gear without ever stepping foot in a 25 man.

I like the propsed changes! But until it happens I don't think I will be running instances or raiding much. Guess its back to the daily grind for my choppers and leveling my profs.

I am wondering if with the change to 10 man heroic and 25 man heroic versions if the loot tables will be merged... if not does it mean T9 for 10man, T9.25 for 25man, T9.5 for 10manH, and T9.75 for 25manH?

Is it confirmed that the current Emblems of Heroism will not be converted to the upgraded version of emblems (conquest one, in this case)? So, it means that all my previous Emblems of Heroism will be removed after 3.2 if I do not use them? ?(

They will not automatically convert to the new badge, this was already stated earlier in the new thread. Just guessing, but I bet you can still buy the old stuff(crap stuff) that you can buy now with your left over emblems of heroism.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Multibocks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=210096#p ost210096

They will not automatically convert to the new badge, this was already stated earlier in the new thread. Just guessing, but I bet you can still buy the old stuff(crap stuff) that you can buy now with your left over emblems of heroism.

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Yeah, I don't know why you would want the old stuff but the fact that you will still be able to do this: "Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism" tells me that those items will still be available for purchase. I guess Valor stuff I can understand, particulary the tier shoulders but I can't imagine anything at the Heroism level being worth while.

Only real remaining use for emblems of heroism is to buy heirlooms

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'falsfire3401',index.php?page=Thread&postID=210103 #post210103

Only real remaining use for emblems of heroism is to buy heirlooms

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I prefer Scarlet Rubies :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'modhackmaster',index.php?page=Thread&postID=21009 0#post210090

Is it confirmed that the current Emblems of Heroism will not be converted to the upgraded version of emblems (conquest one, in this case)? So, it means that all my previous Emblems of Heroism will be removed after 3.2 if I do not use them? ?(

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My impression is that you will still have them and be able to spend them, just like TBC Justice badges. There may be new loot to buy but I have noting more the a couple of ambiguous statements from blues regarding heirloom gear to back that up. Even if there is no new gear you can buy orbs and gems now.

Quote:

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I wish Blizzard would pay attention to this stuff right out of the
expansion rather than attempting to push out a saving throw to get
people back in 5 man dungeons. They did the same exact thing in BC.
Gear from heroics is harder to get and has such terrible itemization
that the step from 5-man heroic gear to even naxx 10 gear is HUGE. Just
like in BC when the step from heroic gear to Kara gear was huge.

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Naxx 10 is the same iLevel as heroic gear, 200. Naxx has a larger variety of gear, and the set pieces. But in general it is not better then Heroic gear. Certainly not to the degree that it was in TBC.


<rant>
I mostly raid. I am in a guild that is on 25 Freya (down this week I hope!). So not a top progression guild but further into endgame content then a lot of people.

I think the changes are great. Their goal as designers and as a business is to get as many people as possible to see and experience as much of the game content as possble. This gives the designers some satisfaction that more people got to see their creations. The business theory is simple, more for people to see, more for people to do equals more active subscriptions for more months.

From the design perspective, since before WotlK was released, they have said they wanted the Lich King to be more accesible to everyone. We saw him in quests and dungeons leveling. I think they want to give everyone, even someone who starts the game today, a chance to fight him in the final instance. I think this is great. I personally have been playing almost 4 years (4 on July 4th). My interest has waxed and waned over that time but I never stopped playing for good. I have seen many people come and go and come back or leave for good. We all have.

This change gives me a chance to give my friend who left for a while a chance to catch up and get some gear to contribute to a real end game raid. It also give my buddy from work that just started playing a couple months ago and just hit 80 a chance to do the same. This is not bad. This gets more people excited for the end game content that comes next. It gives still others an out if they are tired of the toon they are playing (WTS DKs tyvm)by giving them a chance to quickly gear an Alt without hurting progression or taking away from others playing that class now. It builds the ranks for raiding guilds, or causes new ones to form for the next level. This is all good for the game.

The downside, people get gear easier then I did. I spent (am spending) hours killing stuff trying strats and wiping spending 1000s of gold in repair bills and consumables and precious time.

I say so what. They get it easier. Big deal. My gradfather walked to school 30 miles each way, up hill in the snow (or so he had me think :D ). My father had to walk to school through some pretty rough neighborhoods in New York. I rode my bike to school through the suburbs. My wife drives my kids school. Each generation had it easier. That is what the "American Dream" is - making it easier for your kids, giving them more then you had so their life would be easier. This is not much different. Hard core raiders blaze the trail, they are the grandfathers. People like me, in the second-third-fourth (whatever) teir of raiding guilds are the fathers. Casuals are me and the new people are my kids.

My grandfather worked for Western Union his whole life. He retired in 1975 making $4.75 an hour. My first job ever I made $4.25 an hour. He was dead by then but would he have been mad that I made almost as much as he ever did or proud that I was working and making money decent money? I think he would have been proud.

What is the deal with the obsession with what other people have? We have a global community here, is this an American thing or is it everywhere? Why do so many care what person X has or that person Y gets something they have a little easier? Especially in a video game. Can someone explain that to me? I just don't get it.

</rant>


---wow that was way too long, sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'falsfire3401',index.php?page=Thread&postID=210103 #post210103

Only real remaining use for emblems of heroism is to buy heirlooms

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Or shields, trinkets, offhand items, (melee?) weapons.

That's my feelings exactly Caspian, way to sum it up in a few pages. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Multibocks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=210112#p ost210112

That's my feelings exactly Caspian, way to sum it up in a few pages. :D

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I said sorry :D

It's all a part of the treadmill. Some hardcore types are a bit upset at the idea that a casual player can now play 12 hours a day for a week straight and walk out with a set of tier 8 epics. There were even people in the general forum "doing the math" to show how a casual player can get epic'ed out in just a few days... if he runs 18 hours worth of content every day for several days. But that isn't what the casual player is doing. For many of them, getting those epic pieces will take a while, and once they get them, they won't be applying to An_Uber_Guild_01, because that guild isn't recruiting people who only play 5 hours a week on a constantly-changing schedule. Plus, they'll be farming tier 9 or 10 by that time.

There may be a few people who grind out epics under this system and that might make it feel cheap to the people who did it the hard way. But it's really just a bone to the players who otherwise may be running out of gear to upgrade by that time (whether or not they need the upgrades). They did it in tBC and it must have worked to their liking. I would expect them to do this from now on. Toss the casuals some high-level epic upgrades to keep them grinding out the content.

For the sake of forum cleanliness, yes I know you will all laugh at me for this, lets please continue this conversation in the PTR Notes sticky :thumbsup:

3.2 PTR NOTES. Please keep all PTR discussions in the sticky.