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I think the title says it all
I've noticed a general shift away from targettarget in the last year - why is that? Is it because all the example macros use focustarget or is there some other reason. Has everyone forgotten targettarget? Why would people use focustarget when targettarget is plainly superior?
Please support your post with reasons that you find targettarget superior so that we can have a real discussion. Pros and Cons, I would love to hear the specific points because at times i find that focustarget is unreliable on fast target switching.
Cons of Target-target.
You have to target something. It takes time to target something and then change targets constantly. If you want to heal, you are left with no target to attack until you target again. Notice all the targeting you do?
If focus has no target, focus-target fails and nothing happens. If you target something and it has no target, you end up with still your target which is probably not what you want to use.
Just the use of the word target usually teaches people to use /target instead of [target= ]. Which takes tiny bits of room in macros. It doesn't let you check multiple conditions [target=focus-target, help][target=focus].
If you don't change targets, you can actually cast on a different mob and still have a target......./cast [target=focus-target] DPSSpell........./cast CCSpell, the DPS spell goes as an assist but your target never changed, so you still have the mob you want to CC targeted.
There are probably a couple more, but that should start things off.
[quote='Nitro',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205470# post205470]Please support your post with reasons that you find targettarget superior so that we can have a real discussion. Pros and Cons, I would love to hear the specific points because at times i find that focustarget is unreliable on fast target switching.[/quote]I'll see what I can dig up from the archives.
edit: found it : [url='http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=8052']The No Focus Manifesto v0.1[/url] <-- the no focus manifesto
this was from way back in June 08 - the general consensus back then was that targettarget was quicker than focustarget when switching targets. I remember switching from focus to the target method and noticed that my slaves switched much more quickly to the new target and never again experienced focus lag. After this the targettarget approach took prominence but was eventually swamped with new boxers using focustarget due to focustarget being the example of choice in the example macros.
[quote='ElectronDF',index.php?page=Thread&postID=20 5473#post205473]Cons of Target-target.
You have to target something. It takes time to target something and then change targets constantly. If you want to heal, you are left with no target to attack until you target again. Notice all the targeting you do?
If focus has no target, focus-target fails and nothing happens. If you target something and it has no target, you end up with still your target which is probably not what you want to use.
Just the use of the word target usually teaches people to use /target instead of [target= ]. Which takes tiny bits of room in macros. It doesn't let you check multiple conditions [target=focus-target, help][target=focus].
If you don't change targets, you can actually cast on a different mob and still have a target......./cast [target=focus-target] DPSSpell........./cast CCSpell, the DPS spell goes as an assist but your target never changed, so you still have the mob you want to CC targeted.
There are probably a couple more, but that should start things off.[/quote]read the manifesto for more info - [url='http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=8052&pageNo=1']The No Focus Manifesto v0.1[/url]
in fact I'm going to bump it
Maybe I don't get it, or didn't see the exact point in the 'No fucs-manifesto-thread' why it should be faster (so, feel free to point me there ;) ), but...
...honestly I simply don't know if a 'target-target' or 'focus-target' is realy quicker, when changing targets (and by targets I mean the target of your 'main', so the target you want to dps), because I would guess, since both 'focus' and 'target' are known to the client, that what WoW would do for a :
/cast [target=focus-target] ...
is to evaluate on the client the ID (or name, or whatever) of the thing stored in 'focus' and send something like '/cast [target=ID-target] ...' to the server and this would be the same for '/cast [target=target-target] ..' , so I honestly don't see why 'target-target' should be faster for casting the dps-spell ...
..what might be the case is, that setting the 'target' might be quicker than setting the focus, but in both setups this would only happen when the leader has to change (so in your suggested setup, when he dies), and this shouldn't be every second...
What I would see as a 'con' against the 'target-target' option is, that when you PVP you might have some problems:
1. You point your enemy directly to your main-toon (because all your slaves have him as their target)
2. You have a fixed order of 'mains' (if you use the exact macros from the 'no focus...')
3. You would have problems navigating your group when they are split and to far away for follow (happens often in AV with the graveyards) (this is also true for most fous-setups)
4. You can't use '/castsequences' with 'reset=target' in your macros (because your target will allways be the 'main')
Honestly, some of this limitations are also true for using 'focus' (..and thats why I use a customized FTL for this...).
Physical damage classes. Cannot autoattack/autoshot something that isn't your current target. Consider how many hunters, paladins, DKs, rogues and feral druids (WOO!) are currently being boxed and I think you'll have your answer. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Simulacra',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205468#po st205468
I use assist focus and then regular spells; attacks on the actual toon's target and it's fine so far
It's good to remind people that there are a few options on how to set things up, but I don't think any of them actually gimps you. They all work and it comes down to what you're used to and what your personal playstyle is like.
I've been using a modified version of the no-focus-manifesto before it even had a name (I came up with it myself), and am very, very happy with it. I wouldn't swap to a focus-based system if you paid me to, but I'm sure there are people who feel the exact opposite :)
I can see definite advantages over the focus method for my particular playstyle, which involves crowd control in some of my teams (for which I use focus) and sometimes distributing attacks across multiple targets when unloading everything on a single target would just be pointless over-kill.
A non-focus-based system also means I don't need macros for every single spell. It means I can see without doubt who has what target, even if I've deliberately given them different targets.
It means I can use reset=target conditionals in the macros I do use, to make sure I open up with the right thing even if the previous sequence didn't complete.
And with my method of follow and assist, control automatically and seemlessly transfers without me typing a single thing - they automatically start taking follow / assist / focus instructions from the "next" master when the current master is dead or far out of range.
I have no problem believing that the focus-target system makes target swapping quicker, but I've had no problem dealing with targeting lag since about the first week I started boxing (which was a shade over two years ago).
To each their own though :thumbsup:
ah I should explain myself better - for caster types it's better - however when I need to melee I just use a melee specific macro - there's no reason not to mix it up. targettarget for caster operations and assist for melee. they're not mutually exclusive. eg:Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ughmahedhurtz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=20548 6#post205486
;) right back atchaCode:/follow target
/assist [target=target, exists]
/startattack
otlec: I agree totally, different options are good. What I'm I'm trying to do is raise awareness of the targettarget approach as it appears to have been forgotten which I think is a shame. I still think though that focustarget is gimped lol.
morea: try targettarget and see the difference
olipcs: targettarget is quicker when your main is changing targets - an example here is utgarde keep and the two bosses after prince where you need to down them at the same time - I switch between the two on a regular basis with no misfires. Your pvp points are well made, I personally do not use the failover but use pip swap to manage the team where the pip swap key sets the new main as the target which again is quicker than focus.
if this is realy the case (and honestly I can't tell, because I never have used a focus-approach), I would realy like to know, why it is quicker, so if you can give me some hint where to look its realy appreciated...Quote:
targettarget is quicker when your main is changing targets
I'd love to know as well, been researching it but I'm unable to find a discussion - possibly look in the archives here. It's really noticeable on high latency connections (me at 430-450) when using focustarget and I switch target my shammies continue to fire on the old target for a second or so then switch. I'm guessing its all down to what focustarget is really for. As far as I'm aware the whole pupose of focus was for secondary targeting functions like cc and heals to the mt while your dpsing the actual target.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'olipcs',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205508#post2 05508
I'm using something like :
/assist [target=focus,help][target=party1]
This way, when i use a 5-man group (99% of the time), i just have one touch to press to change the leader.
3 key in one on a G15 macro (yeah, i know it's bad, but...) :
the first is a macro /jamba setmeasmaster all with a do-not-pass-key on keyclone.
the second is a macro who set my page bar to the second action bar on all character
and the third set my page bar to one, it's a do-not-pass-key so it's only for my main.
This way, i have only one key to press, and my current windows is my new main character.
And on battlegroups or raid, i just use the focus.
All of which is many, many times more complex than the scheme proposed under the No-Focus Manifesto :)Quote:
I'm using something like : [...]
You don't need to actively switch anything.
You don't need to use multiple action bars(!!!).
You don't need do-not-pass lists.
You don't need to break the ToS by having your G-15 generate three separate keystrokes for a single press.
The more I think about this (and it's the first time I've really thought about it in well over a year) the more I think Sim's onto something here. You guys are gimping yourself!
Just kidding. Probably. ;)
Over the years, I really think people have over-complicated what is actually a very, very simple process.
woo hoo! 1 down - a multitude to go :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Otlecs',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205518#post2 05518
yes, definitely. we need to get back to basics. I've even thought about reduction even further to basic assist wondering what the performance would be like...any thoughts anyone? How does /assist compare to targettarget or focustarget for ease of macro writing, performance and brain death?
julgas: your method makes my brain hurt
I'll give this a shot. I currently don't have much issues with my current set up, but I can see saving that time lag being beneficial in some situations.
I am now thinking that I should go through all the posts on this forum from it's inception.
Well this is kinda the same as min/maxing.
The use of focus in your macro's allows the basic joe the quickest and easiest route for multiboxing. As we get further along in our boxing adventures we find things that help us improve our play. Whether that means we move onto an FTL setup or a more quick response type setup for things like PVP where less lag for target switching can mean worlds of difference.
I see it much along the lines of the available software as well. Starting off Keyclone is awesome. DL, buy it and start multiboxing. Then you may choose to move onto other software that might meet your needs a little more. Hotkeynet, innserspace, Octopus.
To each his own but that's just how I view it.
I use an FTL setup. I prefer this method because it leaves the focus target available for CC. Before approaching a group in PvE (or if you're stealthed like us druids before approaching a team in PvP) then you can set up your focus targets for each slave. From then on, whenever you hit your "mass CC" button you will find all your slaves casting at their appropriate CC target. If you didn't have focus available to do this, then I'm not sure how CCing the middle of a battle would be possible.
As the author of the Leaderless/Targetless - Focus Based Hydra system and a user of the FTL system under Innerspace and a previous user of a targettarget based system I can tell you that I like the FTL the best.
When I was using Focus Based Hydra I ran into problems with my mages and being able to CC. Focus was taken obviously so I worked my CC around target based macros and it worked but wasn't as reliable as I'd have liked. All said and done it was frustrating to try and utilize.
The FTL system is VERY reliable, however it requires a significant amount of setup that I'd never have done without ISBoxers native support of it. The way I have it setup now is flawless, works in and out of vehicles, and has absolutely no drawbacks for me... the ONLY issue I ever have is when one of the clients (or all) get a chat box open, but tahts going to bugger ANY system since chat boxes eat keystrokes.
Leveling my shaman team I am using a very simple focus based system
1 macro
/focus <leader name>
/assist focus
cast normal spells, not in macro
Pros
Setup time was under 1 minute
no thinking involved
if I want to CC or DPS one thing while main is doing something else just target one mash macro main targets new mob
Cons
have to hit the one macro everytime I change targets and want to move DPS
not flexible at all
This will not be enough to PvP or run harder instances - works fine in UK at 68-70.
Now when i was playing my warlocks I tried a focus system and an assist system and they were both much slower the my FTL set up ended up making - I actually documented the process here Warlock & Priest Macro. This was my very first team, ever so there were some thing I missed or would do differently now - so be nice. We actually had a bit of a discussion on FTL vs Focus in my thread too.
My play style was dot dot dot run, new target - dotting as many targets as I could at a time. Before I went FTL on these guys I would often have an alt refresh dot #1 or start with dot #2 on the new mob with dot#1 going into the nether. Of course RAF was announced shortly after I made the group and they were abandoned.
So I think it boils down to what you are doing, how you are doing it and how much time you want to invest in your set up - at least to just get playing.
I think FTL is mandatory for any serious PvP or anytime where you have to switch targets fast all the time.
Focus is easier to set up.
I'm rather fond of just using target for your actual target, i know it seems like a novel concept any more. :P
And for setting that target, i just have an FTL style button, which basically uses a "targetexact" for any one of the 5 based on who's current main, and then assists and just leaves the assist target up. This is very easy for PvE, I can understand there might be a good reason not to leave a target up in PvP, but i don't do it. It also lets me keep dpsing the same target i've got all my tank's threat against while the tank can feel free to swap targets and build up a little pre-agro on the up and coming target, or and new mobs that have come along and like the healer a lot.
I do have to hit the button each time i want dps to change targets, but really it's not that hard to do. And since the target button is FTL, I can just start driving from a new main at any moment. Of course, having innerspace automatically rewrite the targetexact macro for the group i'm playing when I load up the team is really what makes the whole thing an option in my opinion.
This, as I am 5 boxing paladins atm :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ughmahedhurtz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=20548 6#post205486
i do not believe the speed of the target switch matters if it is targettarget or focustarget. either way, the new target info needs to go up to the server, turn around, and go back down into each of your alts before being usable. (think 2 * your latency)
as for which is better... i dunno. i don't have any issues with pipswapping and using the same pip swap keys to set the new focus.
as for cc, set your '/target focustarget' or '/assist [target=focustarget,exists]' macro to a round-robin key and proceed to get new targets... hit key... get new target, repeat. this should allow you to sheep targets while continuing to caster-dps focustargets
My only comment here is why make things more complicated for the sake of making them more complicated? FTL is exactly that IMO. Maybe in PvP it would make a difference, but in PvP? Ummm, ya. I'm doing end-game PvE stuff and FTL has never even crossed my mind. And I'm also a software-less boxer, so I don't even see those extra features as benefits. Just more setup time and complication to the system.[/quote]fur - good to see you hot and bothered. BUT could you please tell us why targettarget is not 'plainly superior' (which if course you must realise was a statement meant to invoke a response :) which is did lol) - I genuinely want to know your reasoning as just saying something is fail doesn't really add much mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205597#pos t205597]
[quote='Simulacra',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205 468#post205468]I think the title says it all
I've noticed a general shift away from targettarget in the last year - why is that? Is it because all the example macros use focustarget or is there some other reason. Has everyone forgotten targettarget? Why would people use focustarget when targettarget is plainly superior?[/quote]
There is so much fail here, I can't even get my head around where to start. "plainly superior" - lolwut? There are so many variables here. Try raiding with static macros and see what happens.
[quote='Owltoid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=20556 6#post205566]I use an FTL setup. I prefer this method because it leaves the focus target available for CC. [/quote]
PVE - As of Wow 2.0 and 3.0 - CC is *NOT* required. Its a stop-gap for gear, but a minor one at that.
PvP - I suck at PvP so I can't really speak to it.
[quote='zanthor',index.php?page=Thread&postID=20558 4#post205584]As the author of the [url='http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=14434
ok fur - lets go through this:
1 - what target is this? when would my target not be targeting what I want it to target? I have my box team and I'm targeting something that I want to target - sorry I don't get your point and see point 2 before you go off lol.
2 - If you need to set your slaves target to another toon to hand over control then simply type /target toon - sames thing as focus.
3 - The mechanics of focused based macros are the same as the mechanics of target based macros - they both provide the same amount of flexibility.
4 - Why is targettarget superior? because it's faster when switching targets. How do I know that? Because I've observed the difference between targeting systems in the same sessions - try it.
5 - FTL? This thread isn't about FTL, it's about generating a discussion based around different targeting systems.
6 - Again this is not about FTL.
point 2 expanded a bit: if your system is totally targettarget based then it works exactly the same way as a focustarget setup only faster when the target is switching targets - this - is the point I'm trying to get across. You can do all the same stuff only your response time will be faster, you may not notice it if you have low latency but if you have high latency like me then you will definitely notice the difference, plus it allows the use of focus for heals etc - taken that it's faster and faster is better, it follows that targettarget is 'clearly superior'.
wow such a nice simple setup - I'm going to try that but of course I'll make the obligatory change to :Quote:
Originally Posted by Caspian',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205595#post2 05595]Leveling my shaman team I am using a very simple focus based system
1 macro
/focus <leader name>
/assist focus
cast normal spells, not in macro
Pros
Setup time was under 1 minute
no thinking involved
if I want to CC or DPS one thing while main is doing something else just target one mash macro main targets new mob
Cons
have to hit the one macro everytime I change targets and want to move DPS
not flexible at all
This will not be enough to PvP or run harder instances - works fine in UK at 68-70.
Now when i was playing my warlocks I tried a focus system and an assist system and they were both much slower the my FTL set up ended up making - I actually documented the process here [url='http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=88140&highlight=pries t+warlock+macro
1 macro
/target<leader name>
/assist target
lol
1 - yesQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205729#po st205729
2 - since replacing focustarget for targettarget doesn't actually cost anything and since latency itself can change even on good connections why not use it and guard against high latency? As for heals I don't use focus - I use target and don't use focus for anything, so it's not more complex, I was simply pointing out that if you wanted to use focus for something you can.
3 - No, tab is in my do not pass list.
4 - not using focus for anything so there's no double up.
here's my target macro on all my shammies bound to the tilde key - I have 5 keys to switch mains if needed
the follow macro:Code:/target [target=Aztrid]
here's a typical cast macro:Code:/follow
here's a chain heal macro:Code:/cast [target=targettarget] Lightning Bolt;Lightning Bolt
here's a tank heal macro:Code:/stopcasting
/use 13
/use 14
/cast blood fury
/cast elemental mastery
/target [target=withthose]
/cast Chain Heal
/targetlasttarget
I could remove the [target=target] as it's already targetedCode:/stopcasting
/use 13
/use 14
/cast blood fury
/cast elemental mastery
/cast [target=target] Lesser Healing Wave
here's a heal self macro:
here's a heal the named macro - this one was for thrall in some quest in CoT I think - not sureCode:/stopcasting
/cast [target=player] Lesser Healing Wave
/targetlasttarget
I did at one point use a focus macro for melee, but I switched that toCode:/stopcasting
/target [target=Thrall]
/cast lesser healing wave
/targetlasttarget
target - not sure if it works as I really have'nt a need to melee.
but if you do need to then:
Code:/follow target
/assist [target=target, exists]
/startattack
I think Fur's point here is that you're adding an extra layer of complexity by having to make damn sure your alts are targeting the correct person to auto-assist. With focus, once it's set, it's always correct no matter what, unless you lag out or get MC'd, and those caveats all still apply to your targettarget setup.
It could also be argued that you lose the use of your "target nearest enemy" keybind AND lose the ability to independently target things for CC by default (aka no having to set focus at all) before the pull and then just concentrate on DPSing when you're setup to use targettarget in your macros, where you're saying you can use focus to target the CC. Put another way, the guys that use focus for assigning a leader are front-loading their strategic targeting and then being able to just mash DPS/heal keys and have it Just Work(tm) whereas you're back-loading it, having to constantly monitor it during the fight. That's basically my perspective anyway.
I'm also with Fur that CC is vastly overrated in most situations.
The bottom line, though, is that everyone's setup will be slightly different based on hardware, software, classes/talents, macros, playstyles and your chosen fight strategy. More choices = GOOD. Since every one of these methods has proven successful at just about everything, there is no way to Do It Wrong(tm). ;)
Me, I'm ultra-lazy. I worship the God of Labor Saving Devices. I basically have my macros condensed down to 3 keys.
- My /follow and /focus set key (which automagically adjusts for leader death)
- My MAKE IT DIE NOW PLZ key (aka Donkey Kong key, aka I Just Got To A Good Part Of The Movie I Was Watching And I Need To Spam One Key To Finish This Pull Without Looking While I'm Watching This Scene)
- My Heal The Tank And The Group key (gotta love Wild Growth, eh?)
true it was a pain until I started using stickytargeting - had a wipe or 2 before I figured that one out - now the target is the target without any issuesQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Ughmahedhurtz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=20574 0#post205740
I'd love you to post your macros :)
OK, heh. Druid macros.
The follow/focus set macro (bound to my "move forward" button so I just tap it and they all follow and refocus automagically; very intuitive):
The Make It Die Now Plz macro (bound to my primary attack key):Code:/follow dondeltoro
/focus [target=doncavallo, exists, nodead]
/focus [target=donramirez, exists, nodead]
/focus [target=donbatista, exists, nodead]
/focus [target=dondeltoro, exists, nodead]
/follow focus
/script SetView(4);SetView(4);
Tree autoheals (also bound to primary attack key):Code:/assist focus
/targetexact charming totem
/targetexact Frost Tomb
/targetexact Snake Wrap
/targetexact Web Wrap
#showtooltip
/dismount [noflying]
/stopmacro [noharm][dead]
/cast [stance:1] growl
/castsequence [stance:1] Swipe (Bear)(), maul, lacerate, Swipe (Bear)(), Swipe (Bear)(), maul, Mangle (Bear)()
/castsequence [stance:3] Mangle (Cat)(); [stance:5][nostance] wrath
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/use [stance:1/3] scarab of isanoth
/use [stance:1] ancient draenei war talisman
/use [stance:5] cannoneer's morale
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/script -- Don't start autoattack in tree/chicken forms
/stopmacro [stance:5]
/startattack
Pretty straightforward stuff. I have specific healing keys set to individuals in case they get targeted, and another key to spam DoTs on things, but most of the time I'm either using the DoTs keys (for 5x boomkin dailies) or the main attack (for instances). Requires a minimum of targeting/spell decisions.Code:/target [target=focustarget]
/stopmacro [noharm][dead]
/castsequence [target=focus] reset=5 lifebloom, regrowth, rejuvenation, lifebloom, null
/castsequence [target=player] reset=5 wild growth, lifebloom, null
thanks for that :) very interesting - I like your use of targetexact. I was thinking about your point earlier of losing the targetnearestenemy ability and realised later that's what targetlasttarget is for - I use that in my chain heal macro so could easily use it to incorporate your use of targetexact without changing the targettarget approach.
You mention earlier that a focus based approach front loads strategic targeting so you can just mash the dps key without having to conentrate on whether you have the right target and it Just Works(tm) :) and that targettarget backloads it and so it has to be constantly monitored, not so. Whether it's backloaded or frontloaded the effect is the same and the playstyle is the same, I just mash my dps key and don't think about what my team is targeting because I know they're targeting my target. Once a leader is set to target it stays targeted
Disregard that healing macro. It's one I've been playing with lately and I guess I've just not hit the failing case until last night. It basically never resets when it gets to "null" which surprised me. Ah well, back to Ye Olde Drawring Boarde. :P You get the idea I'm going for, though.
With regards to the targeting stuff, if you're targeting your main with a separate keypress and then relying on that target being static throughout the fight, you might be surprised when you hit those cases where you lose target (like MC's, certain stuns, the fights where you fight your teammates, etc.). I suppose it's trivial to press the "retarget my main" key but it is one less thing to have to concentrate on when the Fit hits the Shan. ;)
Cheers,
Ugh
ahhh but! if my main toon get's mc'd I just hit my Switch Brain (tm) key and everyone targets the new brain/the pip is swapped and the Fight Goes On(tm) and it's super quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ughmahedhurtz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=20585 5#post205855
also checked my melee macro on the target dummy in orgrimmar - it works
I'm at work so can't post the macro but this will give a general idea, I use /click with castsequences a fair bit and noticed that on the new brain that it didn't cast any spells whereas the others would (my main dying first is a rare event - it's usually the shammies >.<), the castsequence looks a bit like this:
I've changed it to:Code:/castsequence [target=targettarget] reset=combat flame shock, lava burst,,,,,,,,,,,
and it now fires when something is targeted by this toon and when targeting another toon's targetCode:/castsequence [target=targettarget] [target=target] reset=combat flame shock, lava burst,,,,,,,,,,,
*sigh*
I wrote the Manifesto.
The primary goal of No Focus for me was to free up focus for use elsewhere. It was due to the power of focus that I wanted to NOT use it unless absolutely necessary. I wanted to leave it available.
As far as the complexity, I've ran both focus and no focus, and once you get the basic sets of macros put together, there's really no difference. I've never noticed an increased complexity of one compared to the other.
As far as "making sure you have the right target targetted" - That was never an issue, I'm actually curious why anyone would think actually having something targetted would be an issue.
/agree and thank you for writing itQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Zzyzxx71',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205964#pos t205964
it's the same, all we're doing is switching focus for target and focustarget for targettarget, in fact you could probably grab all your macros and perform a mass replace in notepad and carry on as normal - there is no extra level of complexity. Also I think ppl have got the wrong idea, this approach isn't saying don't use focus at all, it's saying lets leave focus for something else as the target approach does not preclude the use of focus. I think ppl got their knickers in a twist due to my flame inspiring thread title which was the purpose btw ;), nothing better than a lively discussion lol.
A point made earlier in this thread was that this approach would be no good for melee, please could someone explain this as in my limited testing I've found no issues with melee, however this was only last night on the training dummies and not on real mobs.
Just a little input on some macros:The /cast [target=...] line won't change your target, so the /targetlasttarget line is unnecessary, and (worst case) will have you targetting the wrong mob after the heal. I suspect that, in practice, your last target is already dead, so you've not noticed, but I believe it's wrong nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Simulacra',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205733#po st205733
Why not just "/target Thrall", instead of "/target [target=Thrall]" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Simulacra',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205733#po st205733
Even simpler:
Code:/stopcasting
/cast [target=Thrall] Lesser Healing Wave
"/assist [exists]" should do the same, as "/assist [target=target,exists]" but with less characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Simulacra',index.php?page=Thread&postID=205733#po st205733
thanks ddm - you are quite correct, the target=self does not overwrite target and I'll remove that but I think you're not getting targettarget - my target is my main so I'm hoping he won't be dead lol, my target will definitely NOT be some dead mob because the targettarget approach never targets anything except a friendly, the worst case is the target is another member of the group if I happened to have pip swapped at some point. The rest are just force of habit. Thx for the tips
I think you guys are also overlooking that using focus can be used for unconventional teams as well.
For example, when I ran 4 warlocks + 1 priest through instances I would have each felguard tanking a different target. Before I pulled I would simply select a target for felguard 1 to tank and have him set his focus to it. Repeat for felguard 2 and 3. I would then hit "/petattack" and they would all charge in at once, tanking their respective targets.
This setup is simply not possible using the typical focus-based grouping. I've been using the target-target ever since I started and have had no problems with it. It gives me all the same features of the focus-based approach, except I can use focus for things if I need to.
My hunters and locks would disagree that you can't split up mobs to off tank. I select the mob on my alt (yeah, select on my main and push a key for the alt to target the mob) and then send in pets with just a /petattack command. Guess what, every pet goes to a different target, no matter who/what I have focused. They only switch if I use a /assist. Again, no matter what I have focused, you can send pets (or chars) at different mobs. Just don't /assist and they stay on that mob. And if you want you can still attack your main's target while you are targeting a different mob with clever use of [options].
I've brought this up twice prior in threads like this and no one ever responded, so this is the first time I've seen someone actually answer how they do it under that system. My system still has the flexibility of selecting a new target on the fly in the case of adds or whatever (without having to go to another window/computer). Your way of doing things still works, though, and I appreciate the clarification on how you do it!Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ElectronDF',index.php?page=Thread&postID=206127#p ost206127