Mages?

I am 4 boxing a priest/3x mage team and was just interested in how people who have leveled mages did it. I am not sure if I want to stay frost or go fire. Currently at 69/68 and have been leveling frost on my mages. I like it for it's mana efficiency. Just wondering if people preferred to go fire for full on firepower or if they also enjoyed the mana efficiency of frost. My team leveled as arcane up until 63. At that point running around and grabbing a ton of mobs and mowing them down with 3x Arcane Explosions and 1x holy nova was good enough to destroy lots of packs..

In these later levels thats not really a good option in terms of mana usage and alot of mobs have a ton more HP than they did at those earlier levels. What do you guys think? Stick with a frost spec or go with fire.

I'd suggest sticking with frost. Especially at your level with three mages, you could cast two frostbolts and a single mob is dead. If you were fire, maybe you could kill a mob with 3x pyros, but the cast is slow and you aren't speeding up the grind much at all. Plus, you get a lot more benefit for Aoe'ing with frost. With your team, it sounds like itd be fun to shield one mage (PW:S and Ice Barrier), gather up the mobs and bring them to two mages with blizzards ready to go and a holy nova. That would take care of mobs with more health than your AE+HN combo could handle quickly, plus probably be more effecient. So, I'd suggest stick with frost. I don't think you'd gain anything going fire over frost. =D

Yeah, I've tried to stay away from the ground targeted AOE's at the moment. I currently use keyclone and the mouse broadcasting feels a little sluggish to me. How about Living bomb? Does that work well with gathering mobs and blowing them up with. Also you are correct. 2 rounds of frostbolts is usually enough to kill any mob. Would a single round of fireballs be enough to take down a mob. Also I was interested in the Improved scorch talent. maybe have 1 of my fire mages glyphed and the other 2 non glyphed so a round of scorches would give the full 5 stacks.

Just looking for options and experiences. I like my current setup but was looking at trying something different ya know.

I leveled 65-80 with 3x mage, priest, druid and I was arcane the whole way and never even considered another option. I am now farming heroics with this team and my 3 mages are still arcane and not looking back.

70-80 I only used 2 buttons on my mages:

Code:

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/castrandom [target=focustarget] arcane barrage, fire blast

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Which pretty much Gibs any non elite target just by mashing this button til your out of combat :P The best part of this macro is all instant on the run damage. No stop and cast slowdown
Thats also one of the few buttons I use in BG's. I easily rack up 1600-2000 honor per BG (honor on the right side of BG scoreboard) just using this button and playing smart.

&

Code:

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/use 13
/use 14
/cast arcane power
/cast presence of mind
/cast arcane blast

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This of course was recently nerfed to not work as it used to. PoM+Arcane Power now have a shared cooldown that in all honesty just works weird.

Now at 80 I added a boss killing general DPS macro:

Code:

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/castsequence [target=focustarget,nochanneling] arcane blast, arcane blast, arcane blast, arcane missiles

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I manually use Presence of Mind for a 4th Arcane Blast right before Arcane Missiles goes off in my castsequence macro whenever PoM is up and use Arcane power in a "things must explode" macro with my trinkets and any other appropriate cooldowns.

1 of 3 mages has slow at the very start of his cast sequence and then ABx3, AM, ABx3, AM I *think*. I'm not at home so I can't check right now,
either way it works to keep slow up almost 100% of the time without refreshing it too often and losing to much DPS. This way all of my mages then benefit from torment the weak and 12% increased dmg.

I stayed Arcane mainly because of the amazing damage it does in 5 mans (I have seen a solo played arcane mage break 6K on the mammoth boss in Heroic Gundrak but he is much better geared than I am and had Heroism which I do not in my team.
Also I don't like the on proc instants in fire/frost. The fire tree's instant pyroblast and frost tree's instant fireball are both great DPS adders solo but boxed I find them to hard to utilize as accidentally casting either of them do to a missed proc is a huge hit against your DPS. Arcane's proc damage is missile barrage and you do not lose much to cast a normal arcane missiles if you miss the proc.

I thought arcane was the top of the DPS charts these days.
maybe one ice and two arcane.... or one of each type :) and compare.

I would leave at least one ice to slow the targets down. the others for all out dps.

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Originally Posted by 'Catamer',index.php?page=Thread&postID=179201#post 179201

I would leave at least one ice to slow the targets down. the others for all out dps.

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Arcane's "Slow" is awesome for slowing anything and can often be used on bosses where frost can not.

I dont have much experience with living bomb to comment on, but since it doesnt explode until after 12 seconds, that would seem like a poor choice to AoE with since you could kill an AoE pack within that time just spamming AE. I tried fire for a little while with my dual mages while leveling and while it was really fun to watch a Northrend mob die instantly when both mage's pyro crit, but it just wasn't any faster overall than frost. Also, for scorch, nothing is going to live long enough to make much use of it. You could probably cast 3 scorches with your 3 fire mages and the mob would be dead by the end of the third round anyways (ofc that would be a very mana effeceint way to grind mobs :D) If you are just questing with your group, you really wont gain anything from fire's bigger hits while you lose some survivability and ohsh!t buttons. Fire can be quite fun with big numbers and it wouldn't hurt to try it out, but I don't think you'd find you gained anything by going fire over frost.

My second team's DPS is three frost mages. I had no trouble through TBC.

I respecced them from Fire because I couldn't find a good way to manage Living Bomb, whereas I knew I'd be using water elementals for every boss fight and for every "oh shit" moment that suddenly required lots of DPS. This is totally subjective, but to me, Fire just wasn't as much fun as Frost. I like doing more Things for less damage per Thing, than doing a few Things that do massive damage each. I also prefer Fury warriors to Arms, fyi, kinda the same thing. Fast frostbolts with water elementals filling in the gaps between casts feels totally mighty and spectacular, and I wouldn't trade it for any number of Pyro crits. ;)

I haven't touched Arcane, but from some of the responses in this thread, I probably will.

Since they brought up arcane above, I'll add that I leveled frost, though now that I'm 80, both mages are arcane spec'd. I've been finishing up quests in Icecrown for gold and AB+Abarr+Wand(for the last 250-500 health) in my mediocre gear flattens mobs quite quickly. Plus, with the short short CD of Evocation, mana effeceincy is no longer an issue. I did, however, stay away from missile barrage because it provides no benefit to a boxer unless it procs on all your mages. Arcane is great for PvP, good for dungeons/raids, and decent enough in solo questing (I'd still prefer frost solo).

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Originally Posted by 'an0mali',index.php?page=Thread&postID=179210#post 179210

I did, however, stay away from missile barrage because it provides no benefit to a boxer unless it procs on all your mages.

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I have to disagree here. Unless your simply casting all your skills individually missile barrage will always be worth it.

I use a [nochanneling] cast sequence on my 3 mages so even if only one procs missile barrage they all continue there sequence at max potential and keep right on going.
Arcane missiles by itself is still good dps and the only way I am willing to consume my Arcane Blast buff when it's fully stacked.

Im curious whether you have reasoning behind this statement that I haven't thought of. (I did refuse to spec missile barrage for a long time cause it De-Syncs my cast sequence... but that's just preference to see all your spells cast at the same time and you do lose dps from not taking missile barrage.)
Enlighten me! :P

I chose to avoid missile barrage because it de-synchs my rotation. I don't use cast sequences because cast sequences supposedly lower DPS a bit, and since I only dual-box the mages, I can afford to focus all of my attention on casting specific spells continuously, taking into account lag and other such delays that slow cast sequences down. If I used cast sequences on my mages (that'd be boring since its all I do with them :D), I wouldn't be able to clip the last AM tick with an ABarr cast, which is supposed to get the ABx3 bonus as well. If I were 5-boxing with a tank and healer requiring most of my attention, I would probably use the cast sequences at a DPS loss so they require less attention and missile barrage would be useful since each mage will plod along its cast sequence regardless of the cast time of the other mages, but this isn't true in my case.

I went full fire until like 55, then tried frost. It seemed much slower for me when I went to frost compared to fire.

Frostbolt spam + elementals = easiest to manage and decent dps if you spec right. All the other specs require you to watch for procs to increase dps. Unless you want to mess with procs on 3 mages I suggest sticking to frost. If you want to see one of mine search for Icewine from magtheridon. The frost spec I have is pretty sweet. Make sure to glyph for elemental and molten armor. If you want you can glyph frostbolt but I still have not read solid info about it canceling torment the weak. If you remove the snare from frostbolt you wont get the 12% damage boost. If someone knows for a fact frostbolt glyph still allows torment the weak let me know.

I'm starting to like the idea of levelling some mages as the playstyle seems quite fun.

Can anyone link some recommended builds then for frost or arcane? Atm I have my mage in the fire tree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'an0mali',index.php?page=Thread&postID=179204#post 179204

I dont have much experience with living bomb to comment on, but since it doesnt explode until after 12 seconds, that would seem like a poor choice to AoE with since you could kill an AoE pack within that time just spamming AE. I tried fire for a little while with my dual mages while leveling and while it was really fun to watch a Northrend mob die instantly when both mage's pyro crit, but it just wasn't any faster overall than frost. Also, for scorch, nothing is going to live long enough to make much use of it. You could probably cast 3 scorches with your 3 fire mages and the mob would be dead by the end of the third round anyways (ofc that would be a very mana effeceint way to grind mobs :D) If you are just questing with your group, you really wont gain anything from fire's bigger hits while you lose some survivability and ohsh!t buttons. Fire can be quite fun with big numbers and it wouldn't hurt to try it out, but I don't think you'd find you gained anything by going fire over frost.

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I'm having a similar problem with my lone mage - I specced her FrostFire, and while she can pull huge numbers on bosses because of living bomb and such, she's actually hitting pretty low on the DPS meter right now - which is good and bad - good in that she's not her usual sneaky aggro grabber, bad in that group DPS is down. FrostFire is a great raid build, if you can sit there and manage it - which i can't, because my druid is my main. I'm also going to start switching up who's main - my Boomkin can be run on a macro, I don't do anything fancy with her.

I think you nailed it - the mobs die too fast for my mage to really start being effective (I'm grinding rep in Icecrown at the moment, I pretty much finished questing in Wrath...sniff)


I'm gonna try frost, after reading up on it, let you know how it goes.

I've got 2 teams going at the moment,one is full Arcane the other is full Frost with a Frost DK thrown in a point/tank
For speed you can't beat Arcane (although i am running x5) and can Barrage most thing down to 15% finishing them with an Arcane explosion.
Frost is great where you need less mobility and CC is more important,say indoors instances ect.
So I would say if your Q levelling go Arcane,but if your looking to boost instances frost is better.
GL :)

I will say with my 3x mage I have never seen a higher DPS output than Arcane Power + Icy Veins + Heroism and Spamming Arcane Blast until a missile barrage proc.
I only casted arcane missiles with a full 3x stack of the Arcane Blast buff and a missile barrage proc.

It was insane. Granted watching individual procs of missile barrage is something most probably won't do. But I used a
[nochanneling] macro to spam Arcane Blast with a modifier for each mage to cast Arcane Missiles on proc. Not that bad once I got used to it.
I can go through a 20k mana pool in under a minute but anything short of a raid boss will be dead by then anyway.

Personally, if I had 3 mages, then I'd spec one of each, as there are benefits for each one. Water for the mana regen to the party, arcane for the DPS and crit buff (Focus Magic), and fire also for good DPS. The variety of DPS also means that a particular mob immune to just fire, or frost, won't really slow you down or require a special rotation.

Currently, my only mage is arcane, and I don't really have any intention of changing that, except perhaps to re-spec to optimize the talents just a little more for the arcane build. Any arcane build should 3-stack the Arcane Blast, then ideally finish with Arcane Missiles (for maximum DPS, especially if glyphed) or even just an Arcane Barrage. The mage will eat through mana faster than any other class in the group, but also be riding the top of the DPS charts. Just hotkey Evocation to a button and use it every time its up, and you don't have to spend time drinking. I never even have to use her mana gems, but have that hotkeyed as well in case.

I leveled them all fire, using a scorch build. With impact, you never get hit - you will usually get at least one stun per mob. Impact with a fast casting spell like scorch x4 is actually pretty busted. :)

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Originally Posted by 'Taliesin',index.php?page=Thread&postID=179470#pos t179470

Personally, if I had 3 mages, then I'd spec one of each, as there are benefits for each one.

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this was my initial thoughts as well. Unfortunately I could never get the total DPS of 1fire+1frost+1arcane anywhere near 3 of any identical spec. This was a long time ago when I was wearing full frost savage (what like 1300 SP?) on all 3 mages and may be worth revisiting now.

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The variety of DPS also means that a particular mob immune to just fire, or frost, won't really slow you down or require a special rotation.

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Out of curiosity does such a mob exist inside of an instance/raid? I lead on my druid and I can't think of a time I've seen immune on his screen.

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Originally Posted by 'genocyde',index.php?page=Thread&postID=179534#pos t179534

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Taliesin',index.php?page=Thread&postID=179470#pos t179470

The variety of DPS also means that a particular mob immune to just fire, or frost, won't really slow you down or require a special rotation.

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Out of curiosity does such a mob exist inside of an instance/raid? I lead on my druid and I can't think of a time I've seen immune on his screen.

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Good question (translation: I don't have a good answer). I haven't run into one, but I'm playing partly on the hypothetical here, in case they exist. I'm thinking along the lines of Ragnaros and such that might be immune (or at least resistant) to fire attacks. It's probably unlikely they'd add a boss that was completely immune to a certain type of spell, so as to not force certain classes to have to respec, or even sit out, on certain raids/instances.

But, I have run into certain mobs that have been completely immune to nature and fire attacks in the past, which have caught me off my guard. I don't think they were in instances. I just can't think what they were at the moment.

And the rotations for 3 different mages would definitely be a challenge. That's exactly why I would try it, even though it will obviously reduce overall DPS a little. :)