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What is going on at Blizzard?
Arenas are broken
PvP is by popular opinion broken
Raiding is impossible on many servers
Wintergrasp is broken
Now...the forums are broken!
What next? What is going on at Blizzard? Did they shift the good people over to Diablo III development?
(For the record, I logged in fine, and dug into Icecrown quests...I'm happy...)
/em kindly directs the whining threads to the official forums.
Sounds like the casual PvE players are safe! :P
Yay, go me!
As a hardcore PvE'er and someone sick and tired of blizzard nerfing PvE to suit PvP, I'm loving it. I think its hysterical they've screwed up so much now their precious PvP won't even work without lagging out / crashing the servers. Don't get me wrong, I love some PvP. But not this bastardized RNG bullshit.
I think it's kind of funny too. It would be a good time for casual PvE'rs to go troll the main Blizzard forums. :whistling:
I agree with you completely. Imagine the game WoW could have been if they hadn't hacked apart the PvE and world PvP approach for the sake of "organized" PvP. The height of fun in the game for me was just before battlegrounds were released. It took multiboxing to keep me interested in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Svpernova09',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169677# post169677
I don't think they've ever really gotten PvP right. Lord knows they've tried. But I don't think it's possible to provide PvP balance in a game that is designed around PvE RPG progression. Even Warhammer online, which balanced around PvP first, doesn't seem balanced around 1-v-1 or even small group play-- it's built around large groups and huge battles in large zones, with smaller 15-v-15 battlegrounds serving as a "nothing else to do" option once you are max level.
Blizzard's desire to make arena an eSport has probably made things worse. They really should look into the Warhammer system of battlegrounds-- 15 minute limit (they end quicker if one side reaches the winning objectives) and a steady accumulation of both experience and PvP currency (renown, in WAR, which works like levels do) which is used to purchase better gear. In other words, even if you are having a hard time in PvP for any reason (class balance, lack of skill, lack of teammates with skill, etc) you can progress via PvP without it being horribly frustrating. I didn't get very far in War (more of a PvE person myself) but I enjoyed the battlegrounds and the PvP progression, and I don't recall feeling the way I did about WSG, for example.
I don't think they can do much to fix the PvP imbalances, but making PvP more tolerable for the masses could really work out well. I gave up on PvP not because it was a grind per se, but because it didn't feel like a worthwhile grind. 20 WSG tokens? Shoot me, please.
They should have made WG an AV type area or added another 40v40 or even a 80v80 BG that was an instance - NOT a world area.
When they make Wintergrasp marks so valuable, and none of the other marks worth anything, then EVERYONE plays WG - not sure what they expected.
100+ v 100+ battles never worked in wow, and I doubt it's going to be an easy fix to make it work now.
I agree. Before I started multiboxing, I was playing a Restoration Druid in order to heal my friends through instances. I was completely shattered when they attempted to "fix" Resto Druids in PvP, only to nerf them in PvE. Honestly, that fix was supposed to be aimed at the 2v2 groups (if I remember correctly). Why could they just keep them OP? It's not like the 2's were "srs bznss" anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Svpernova09',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169677# post169677
Although, since I've switched to a mixed group instead of my druids, I may get my druids to 80 and spec them all resto just to be a pain in arenas or other PvP environments.
I'm sure quite a lot of stuff is broken and so forth, but I can honestly say that I have yet to experience any post 3.0.8 issues at all. Everything that I do in particular works fine, which is mostly heroics and dailies at this point. I don't do WG, battlegrounds, raiding, etc, so that doesn't affect me.
In fact, since WotLK was released, the only bug that has affected me at all is the random lag in northrend when WG is up, aside from that I have yet to experience any bugs or issues.
As a hardcore pvp'er im also sick of seeing pve gear dominating alot of the pvp.. it wasnt so bad in TBC but now its just over the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Basilikos',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169709#po st169709
The 2vs2 bracket is a retarded bracket in my opinion and should have been replaced with a 4vs4 bracket instead. 2vs2 relies soooo much on setup but ofc skills DO matter there...
The only major bug I've run into multiple times since the last patch has to do with the potion cooldown. Every now and then after using a potion, the cooldown won't start even after leaving combat. The hover-text for the potion says the cooldown will begin once I exit combat, yet I'm out of combat and it's not working. Need to relog to fix the problem... grrrr.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169712#post1 69712
Yeah back in the good old days when entire talent trees weren't even viable. Survival hunter? Beast hunter? Balance druid? Feral druid? Fury warrior? Discipline priest? There was really no such thing back then. Paladins didn't even have a viable snare or ranged attack. You couldn't even get +spell damage gear without doing raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by '-silencer-',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169686#post169686
Heck, maybe I could screenshot the extra 20 days worth of free game time on my account from back in the good old days when my server went down unexpectedly for days.
Running back and forth between Southshore and Tarren Mill with no objective and no rewards on a poorly itemized and half-finished game was not the pinnacle of fun except in your memory. If you could go back to that now you wouldn't be having any fun anymore knowing what you now know about all the classes and balance issues. I mean, you're nostalgic over something which wasn't even designed at all.
I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm not sure if I can comment on the issues you guys are complaining about now. Doing multibox PVE, the game's seemed improved on my end for the most part.
Not that the game didn't have its flaws then.. we're talking more about Blizzard's commitment to making the game better for its original intended purpose rather than butchering that purpose for bastardized half-assed eSport PvP crap.. with easy epics for all because the PvP-only crowd bitched enough about not being able to compete with raiders in world PvP. Want balanced PvP? Play GuildWars. WoW has proven that 4+ years of tweaking still can't provide balanced PvP. Yes, they've fixed talent trees for the most part (besides seriously breaking many talents that were very fair in PvE but had to be nerfed due to PvP), so I'm not saying the game hasn't improved in some ways. The server issues were only a problem for me on Magtheridon for the first 2-3 months.. and quite stable from then on. Dailies have destroyed the economy beyond what gold farmers were doing back then - good luck to those casual players today trying to buy mats on the AH without a lvl 80 character running dailies for gold. And yes, I'm nostalgic over the aspect of the game when PvP wasn't designed at all. It was an option to attack the other faction, but it didn't run nearly every class "balance" decision made for the last 3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169745#pos t169745
If Blizzard had the balls to do this - create world PvP servers with NO battleground/arena functionality/rewards - I'd bet those servers would be hugely popular.
Yes they would be popular, but let me play devil's advocate here.
Ask yourself why haven't they done world pvp servers yet with no battlegrounds or arenas? It's been suggested a thousand times so why are we not seeing that yet? It's because it doesn't make sense to create a pvp server that would have a different set of rules. It wouldn't be the same game. That would be a totally different game wouldn't it? Where would pvp gear come from, instance drops or faction rep?
But wait! What about PVE gear? Wouldn't those be important to? It's hard enough just trying to have a balancing act with this world they've created, and it would be extremely tough to have a different server with a different set of rules. I'm not saying it'll never happen, but this has been suggested many times and there is very little chance of them implementing it in the near future.
My policy is to not even bother to log in (well might log on my AH guy) untill 4-5 days after any major patch.
The point would be to go back to playing the game without PvP gear - removal of battlegrounds/arenas/pvp-vendors. There wouldn't need to be a different set of rules - just remove the ways you can access PvP-only content from the server-side and just allow world PvP to happen. Like how it used to be before Bliz implemented battlegrounds. Many people have suggested it, but Bliz doesn't want to do anything to reduce PvP - they encourage it to try to make their game competitive with other games' (better) PvP systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Yamio',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169774#post16 9774
Ahhh....I see. Good point.
You know what, I hear exactly what you're saying and it always brings me back to the three original developers of World of Warcraft that left the company after Vinvendi bought Blizzard. These devs were the same guys that created Diablo and the original Warcraft series, and they had a great idea for WoW, but when Vinvendi came in, it started making changes to the overall design, and those 3 devs left in frustration and created their own company.
Those devs have said WoW is a lot different than their original vision. I keep thinking how sad it is for those guys, but also how sad it is for us to not see the game they envisioned.
As someone who will never have the time to raid, I have to say that prior to multi-boxing PvP was the only thing that kept me playing. I really enjoyed BG's. Warlock was my main and while PvP'ing they were a good class. Still, it was a rock-paper-scissors thing and if a rogue or warrior got on top of me it was over.
Arena's I just started playing and that was okay. BG's though, I enjoyed. Even PUG in nature and horribly uncoordinated, I'd still find a player or two willing to 'team' and we'd go take a node or tower. Its fun.
So, I don't think BG's, arenas or PvP in general are going anywhere. Blizzard watches what its player base does and enough vote with their activity level to continue investing development and maintenance dollars in the PvP side.
Finally, what's the alternative? WoW's the best thing going. Damn near a monopoly I'd wager. ;)
QFE, since the days of UBRS being endgame, I have had a personal policy of not trying to do anything the week of any patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169778#p ost169778
I don't see anything being broken at all right now, I mean even with easy epics, the reason they're epic is because of the stat distrubutions, but the variation between good and bad epics is still pretty large; as large as the differences between raid gear and blue gear in old WoW. The problem is mostly that they don't make more than one map for each battleground, and then you end up playing the same map of WSG for 4 years with no changes. Everything else is just nitpicking.
it really cheezed my that Wintergasp broke with the Horde owning it on my server so alliance was SOL until it was fixed.
I'm on the other side, WG is now stuck on horde side which works out good for me.
Then again we always have wintergrasp anyway because alliance sucks so bad on our server they can never get it, and 99% of the time random alliance in the world get owned by horde so fast the only time we get killed is when theres 3+ of them to 1 of us and/or they're 80 attacking a level 70-.
Thats how its been on Burning Legion US since I started playing the game in early 05.
I ran two heroics and I thought my shaman rocked
hahaha so true, so very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169816#post1 69816
Spot on.Quote:
The problem is mostly that they don't make more than one map for each battleground, and then you end up playing the same map of WSG for 4 years with no changes. Everything else is just nitpicking.
I get the feeling WoW production has now fully transitioned into the hands of a secondary team (the primary team having wandered off to other, more awesome projects in Blizzard), and that secondary team readily bends over for management and marketing demands (schedule, workflow, quality changes, etc.)
I hear a lot of this "decline" in WoW, and I'm sorry, I don't really see it. I wonder if those who think this really remember the early days of this game, and all the frustrating things we had to put up with. There were tons. I'm not going to say it doesn't have its problems, but on balance it's a much better game today than it was. I think we all get sentimental about the "good ole days" when WoW was young, and those were good times, but that doesn't mean the game was better, it was just newer.
Perhaps the reason I think this is because I'm in the category of people who benefit most from the ways it has changed. I'm not casual (I play a lot), but I don't belong to a raiding guild. I like to run raids with my friends, but it's not a weekly requirement. I like to pvp - BGs, arena, world. I do wish they would separate the pvp rules from pve, but I know why they don't want to - it would be a TON more work. I like that I can do most things now without having to take a second job raiding. I assert that this is a more healthy approach to a game that contains, mostly, casual players.
Speaking of raids, do people really expect raids to cater to a small minority of people? Honestly, I'm surprised that lasted as long as it did, and if you step back and think about it objectively for a second I think you'll realize they are doing what they should be doing - making their game enjoyable for as many people as possible. Sorry if it's not super-duper hard, but here's a news flash: raiding in the past in WoW has been not so much about skill, as time. For myself, I don't want to be part of a militaristic regime (read: raiding guild) anymore. So, that's meant that I missed out on a huge part of the game in the past. I'd like to run the game with my friends and still see all the content, and why shouldn't I be able to?
So yeah, scandal in the Blizzard offices concerning massive Vivendi "dumb-down" conspiracy and/or a plot to appease hardcore pvpers that want to raid, or a company trying to make their game approachable by more people. I'll take Snakes In The Grass for $1000, Alex!
people aren't awesome from the start, but they do learn to do their jobs better
we saw this when wow first went live, then things got smoother as they had time to learn from their mistakes
i believe the recent rockiness are signs that there's a new learning curve happening
as for casualization, this is an ongoing theme ever since wow launched, and i'm happy for it since i am a casual
please note that i pointed out scheduling, workflow, and quality changes in their bending over, and nothing about raids or content
Well put BobGnarley, and I mostly agree with you, but I'm a casual player
I don't PvP anymore because I don't like how it plays out with the rewards and ratings. I don't raid with others because most of my friends have quit playing due to either money/time/family. The changes made to spell dmg or power or totems or whatever doesn't really bother me, and tbh, I ignore a lot of it. I was a solo player before and now that I multibox I'm even moreso. I used to group because I had to; now I rarely do it cause I don't need to. In the old days I would take on just about anything in anyplace at anytime, which means I would have to adapt to constraints of whatever the game offered. It didn't matter if I like the changes or not, they're the cards I'm dealt so I have to adapt.
Everybody has an idea of how to make things better, but it's MUCH harder when you're the team that actually has to implement things. Kind of like being a armchair quarterback.
It makes sense that Blizzard caters to the largest number of players it can. Hell, if I designed a game, casual players would be crowd I'd shoot for. "If it's good enough to keep the casuals coming back, we're bound to hook some hardcores in the process!"....and making a hard game doesn't fit into that idea.
I hear others say the old days of pvp were great, but like you, I remember them as being a pain. Remember the first honor system? /cry
Overall Blizzard has done a good job designing a game that pleases both PVE'er's/PVP'ers and casuals/hardcores in the process. That's definitely not an easy task. And while I don't believe nor partake in conspiracies, I do believe we're playing a game that's different than the original devs design. I have no idea if the difference is vast or not. Did their initial plan have less players than the current player base? More or less world PVP? BG's and Arenas? It's all speculation and subjective at best.
The one thing I do know; there's enough in WoW that keeps me coming back again and again, and spending me hard earned money on it in the process.
I started this thread, so I'm gonna jump back in...
I intended the thread as a *snerk*, because so many issues hit from the patch, and then it was just amusing that the forums went down - which was probably from so many people logging in to complain about WG and raids and everything else! :)
I don't fully agree with all points in this thread, but most of you made some good points, points that I'll be damned if I have any answers for. The game has grown, and they have a fine line between keeping it interesting, and adding new cool features, and breaking it and making everyone looks elsewhere.
I also agree that I think some of the key people may have moved on to bigger projects - but, I will still state that I think Wrath is their best work, yet. Just from questing, this expansion is amazing - the lore, the quests, the settings, everything. I've enjoyed every step along the way. I have dug into Icecrown and it's just as interesting as Storm Peaks. I'm kind of sad, because it's almost over! I'm losing interest in buying two more accounts, and just parking my new 80's and starting to work on another 3-toon team, because I know I can handle 99% of the non-instance material - then later on, when I can afford two more accounts, just transfer some over. I have zero interest in raiding, the gear, while justified at being epic, is really kind of lackluster, and while I'd like to see the instances, I'm more interested in learning the ins and outs of a couple new classes in easier content. Pvp? Whatever. It's boring now, it's a complete joke with the numbers of DKs and melee, cloth just don't seem to be bothering, or at least that's what I see when I poke my head in BGs and WG.
I tend to see this week as more of a management issue - whoever signed off on the patch, should be in quite a bit of hot water right now, if it were one person or a group - it was a failure no matter how you look at it. They changed Arena in a fundamental, under the hood manner, with no proper testing or warning, and that is not acceptable.
Now that I've griped a bit, here's my hope:
3.1 will be an AMAZING patch, with lots of new, hard mode dungeons and achievements, they'll figure out some PvP fixes, add some new, fun solo and casual content (Ogrila, Netherwing, or Isle type content), buff up the professions, and give us some hints to what to expect with Arthas.
From what I remember, it was after the first major content patch in BC that we got to settle in and get some serious playing done, it was stable and there was plenty to do. That's what I *hope* 3.1 will bring. I *hope* that the guys working on 3.08 were the B team, and the A team is on 3.1.
Fucking hope so, wtb awsum game?Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Gadzooks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169605#pos t169605
I'm pushing for 3 v 1 and 2 v 5 arena brackets. Those would rock steady.
:thumbdown: Would rather an MMO, I can't stand single player games anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Skuggomann',index.php?page=Thread&postID=170231#p ost170231
I would like to take this opportunity to ask for a facepalm smiley.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Multibocks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=170243#p ost170243
I tend to agree; I don't mind PvP, but don't think the game should be 'balanced' around PvP at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Svpernova09',index.php?page=Thread&postID=169677# post169677
My thoughts are PvP should be a face off game of Electronic Simon. Testing your hand eye coordination and memorizing skills much better then WoW.