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I am leveling my pve team up and wanted to know what the avg HP and Defense is of prot pallies doing 5 man heroics. There are a lot of crafted gear options for lvl 80. I should be able to outfit my guy with most of it once I ding. Do you think gearing the tank to the teeth will help clear heroics easier than gearing the dps? Reason I ask that is to spend my gold in the best place first. My plan now is to finance my tank first then dps/healer. Thanks!
Can't give you answers about what I have (stats) because I don't have any. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'pinotnoir',index.php?page=Thread&postID=168448#po st168448
But as I were raiding it was always like this:
Tank> Healer>Damage
So if the tank gets less dmg the healer has more mana to heal / keeps more mana to heal others and stuff. So I guess PvE team includes doing 5Man instances before dong 80, so you should get enough gear for your healer, so you could focus on your Tank. you first just need the defense cap/to be uncrittable + a bit Stamina, shouldn't be so expensive.
I think you could just focus on your tank, because it's (for me) the most important role in your grp.
My paladintank is at 540 def, around 26.5k HP - And yes, you want to gear up ur tank before anything else.
I just made 80 too. My pally tank only has 525 Def - trying to find more... but where?
I have about 21K hp and 22K armor
I also have a resto shammie and 3 ele shammies all of which have about 2000+ spell 14.5%crit and not very good spell hit.
I have tried 4 heroics... Gundrak, UK, Violet, and Drak-Tharon - I managed to get two badges... off the mammoth guy in Gundrak and the prince in UK.
Everything else rocks me.
Gundrak:
The snake guy in Gundrak, constrictors stun my tank and its over for my DPS.
The stone guy in Gundrak walks on me. The elemental he turns into destroyes the Earth Elemenetals and then the water pools drown my DPS (not like the wiki says) on Heroic.
UK:
I have found pulling the prince into the room before his - hidding in a corner at the top of the stairs worked best.
Drak-Tharon:
The shadowmages suck the life from you quickly - I died a wipped a few times on them... kill/hex/stun them fast
The first boss gets stronger - DPS race, before he 1 shots your tank... I cannot see to win
Get/buy/steal as much gear as you can before you try any heroic. Use well fed food, get flasks or something.
They have left a sour taste in my mouth
Edit: Forgot to add - you really shouldn't even try a heroic before 535 defense. Getting that on a paladin should be cake since you have a 1H sword and shield which will both give def rating - I hit 535 on my DK before I ever tried a heroic which required purchasing a bunch of crafted gear :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Pulphero',index.php?page=Thread&postID=168477#pos t168477
Gundrak:
Not sure what your issue is with the snake boss. My tank hardly ever gets snake wrapped but when it happens chain lightnings seem to take care of it. Also wtih your SP you should be able to take the boss out almost by the time the first snakes arrive. Set your DPS up on the ledge 1 level up on the ramp coming down from the instance entrance, drop 4x healing streams to prevent having to heal your dps. Aside from that blow all your cooldowns right at the beginning and the boss will go down fast.
Colossus - I think you meant to say the colossus killed your earth elementals, not the elemental form, because the elemental form can't hurt your earth eles (they are immune to his damage). Drop 4x healing stream which is what negates the mojo puddles (without 4x healing stream this will be very hard) and also make SURE you drop a nature resistance totem. Aside from that, don't drop your earth elemental totems until AFTER the first time the boss transforms into the elemental - if you drop them at the beginning his colossus form will just annihilate the elementals immediately.
Drak'Tharon:
If you're talking about the soul mages that create that black void thing, yes they suck a lot but I've found the trick. Leave your DPS WAY behind your tank (out of range). Pull the mages with your tank and pull them towards your DPS until they are just BARELY in range of lightning bolt. They will not drop the void things on your DPS from that distance, only on your tank which is easy to move out of.
First boss...I'm not sure what the issue is - I never noticed him getting stronger. Again this is another fight that helps to drop 4x healing stream totem - that way during corpse explosions you wont have to heal your DPS - the healing streams will do it for you. All I do is drop 4x healing stream, pull him, blow all my cooldowns and wipe the floor with him - never really had trouble with this fight. Just make sure to keep your tank topped off before explosions.
I wiped a lot when I first started heroics, my pally was ~21k hp and 540 def and I would lose him all the time.
I focused instead for a week or two on just gearing up the pally, solo. Ran naxx25/10 in pugs, OS10/25, etc. Got some lucky rolls, got a ton of badges. My pally is currently 27.5k hp, 560 defense (that insane defense trinket from naxx gives 84 defense), 21% dodge / 20% parry / 20% block, and virtually every heroic is a joke now. Many bosses I don't even have to heal, just earthshield (1 resto shaman) + 3 healing streams is enough. I didn't really believe it when Niley said this, but its true, at a certain magic level of HP/block/dodge/etc, bosses go from crazy hard to crazy easy.
so imo just gear up your tank so that you have full epics in every slot, at least 26k hp, and 545 defense or higher. dodge/parry starts hitting diminishing returns at high numbers, so I tend to stack block rating and defense (and of course stamina) more than dodge/parry. It can be tough getting into a naxx25 pug as an undergeared tank, so imo you may want to just respec holy for 1-3 weeks, there is a ton of easy to get holy gear and pugs are always desperate for healers, at least on my server.
Currently at:
552 Defense
24k Health
23k Armor
This is group buffed with Kings. I have zero gear from heroics. No Naxx pieces either. My gear is mostly questing blues with crafted pieces from a fellow Blacksmith.
On gundrak on the troll side theres a nice BoE neck that drops that has a nice bit of def that i used until i had enough badges. The first boss in HoL has some nice shoulders and even Colossus drops some def shoulders with a socket that im still wearing. Theres a quest in zul'drak that gets you a nice tanking mace http://thottbot.com/q12857
Theres a ton of BoE blues you can get from the AH (if there any up) that will get you to 535 with enchants and if you have it id go ahead and spend the gold for the titansteel shield.
As far as doing some of the bosses i have a video here My heroic boss compilation video that i made while i was still gearing up and i was in mostly blues and some greens too.
A tip for gundrak on the Colossus boss is to drop 3 healing stream and 1 NR totem. That alone will heal you through the pools that the elemental spits out. Then just tank and spank. On the first boss on the tank side i just drop 2 fire (4 if you need) to pick up the adds and just burn down the boss. and like Hachoo said park your dps up the stairs and the poison nova wont hit them. as for trash on that side i find that poison cleansing totem really helps when they spit. Hope this helps and good luck
552 def holy crap! time to start switching some gems for stam and gettinsg some dodge/parry gear you only need 535 for heroics 540 for raidsQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Heenan',index.php?page=Thread&postID=168501#post1 68501
No sockets in any of my gear, so I can only switch enchants until I get better gear. I've had no issues in any dungeon so far.
Actually def rocks for pallies. After getting crit immune a really good stat for pallies is shild block rating (until they have 100% miss dodge parry block with hs up). Def is really good for that since it also increases shield block rating as well as parry dodge and miss. Blocking >>1k each hit really rocks for heroics.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'GizmoxLoW',index.php?page=Thread&postID=168503#po st168503
Imo it's stacking def until you reach this block soft cap and only focus on gemming / getting dodge afterwards (never get parry via parry rating, it sucks from a cost / effect perspective for avoidance, at least until you have _loads_ of dodge rating).
Hmm i thought 540 was not only the goal but also the capso i thought it wouldnt matter after that. But if it continues to rise and effect more stats i may have to look into that more. im sitting around 18% dodge 16% parry and 20% block unbuffed atm. Ill switch some gear around and see what numbers i can pull. Thanks for this new info i had no idea aboutQuote:
Originally Posted by 'nomenquis',index.php?page=Thread&postID=168511#po st168511
You can drop 4 healing streams and a nature resist. The nature resist is not a water totem, its an air totem, so you don't have to sacrifice anything ever to drop a nature resist (except a grounding if you need them).Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoxLoW',index.php?page=Thread&postID=168502#pos t168502]On gundrak on the troll side theres a nice BoE neck that drops that has a nice bit of def that i used until i had enough badges. The first boss in HoL has some nice shoulders and even Colossus drops some def shoulders with a socket that im still wearing. Theres a quest in zul'drak that gets you a nice tanking mace [url]http://thottbot.com/q12857[/url]
Theres a ton of BoE blues you can get from the AH (if there any up) that will get you to 535 with enchants and if you have it id go ahead and spend the gold for the titansteel shield.
As far as doing some of the bosses i have a video here [url='http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=18017
Def rocks for pallies, is really good for warriors, is meh for dks and utter rubish for ferals after reaching uncrittable.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'GizmoxLoW',index.php?page=Thread&postID=168512#po st168512
I'd highly recommend getting 'tankpoints' and also 'rating buster'. Tank points will show you a nice hit table so you can see dodge / parry block after dr, and rating buster can easily show you how much avoidance you gain from a piece of equipment (also taking dr into account).
Otherwise seeing your real values involves taking out a calculator thanks to dr :)
24.1k armor
24639 health
21.16% dodge
17.13% parry
12.31% block (1033 dmg block each hit)
Doesnt sound too impressive, but I rarely have to heal him on heroic bosses. Everything is epic on him (not that that means much.) I dont use kings, maybe I should switch. I really like how much mana Sanctuary gives him and I am reluctant to use anything else.
Shaman are around 1800 spell and 18% haste before buffs. I can get them up to 2200-2400 with flasks, totem and wep buff. I think the gearing up of my shaman made heroics easy, they burn down lots of stuff like a hot knife through butter. Wish a few of them were mages though =(
edit: it's strange how hard it is to upgrade his gear now, everything looks like a sidegrade or downgrade and you have to do math to see if its any better. I hate this mechanic so much that I dont play this team very often anymore. It's fun to upgrade, but when you have to do math... ya that ruins the fun. I would settle for something that was +1 dodge upgrade than comparing dodge,parry etc to lost health and armor.
I've found more and more in PVE that it is essential to get your tank geared out. I run all of my shams elemental and the extra dps time from not having to heal makes a huge difference (even though I'm still working on why their dps is only 1800ish =) With one 10 man Naxx raid playing your tank solo you can gear him out pretty well. Just make sure that you review and know the fights before you try it (www.tankspot.com and watch the videos). I tank 25 mans too so he's pushing 30k at 540 defense now but once he hit about 25k 540 defense I could tell a huge difference.
28549 Health
23699 Armor
540 Def
20.28% Dodge
16.42% Parry
13.1% Block
27.5k HP
553 Defence (its alot but it outscales every other stat)
22.99% Dodge
19.02% Parry
18.68% Block
Im at 100.27% mitigation with Holy Shield up so it kind of rocks ;)
540 is the number at which a boss level mob can no longer land a critical blow on you. Increasing past 540 will still increase your dodge, parry and block though, albeit with diminishing returns.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'GizmoxLoW',index.php?page=Thread&postID=168512#po st168512
I would recommend every tank use the tankpoints ingame calc, its a mod you can get at http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-a...nk-points.aspx
For example I have both the repelling charge (+84 def, 3k hp on use) and rune of repulsion (+95 parry, 375 parry on use). I almost always use repelling charge though (and gossamer) since my total avoidance is higher with that. Only time I really use rune of repulsion is on patchwerk, since I get 2 uses on that fight, and PW cannot crit so stacking as much avoidance (and HP) as you can is good.
I recommend that every tank use RAWR. There is, in my opinion, no better way to make gear choices because it takes your current gear/spec/buff/everything into account which is very important to make the only choices you need help with (meaning, the choices which aren't just obvious).
27,854 Health
24,153 Armor
540 Defense
22.48% Dodge
17.57 % Parry
17.92% Block
1,073 Damage Blocked
I'm thinking of dropping some of the health for more avoidance/mitigation but I'm still debating. As for avoidance/mitigation, 102.4% is the magic number due to level differances of bosses that you no longer take full hits. At the minimum, everything will at least be blocked. As for more defense, it is my understanding that after you are maxed, avoidance/mitigation are more cost effective than straight defense.
As for crafted gear, I made my engineering helm which I recently switched to a Tempered Titansteel Helm (the additional gem slot made it superior) and bought a Titanium Earthguard Chain, everything else I got from either dungeons or dungeon quests. In my experience, the non heroic dungeon drops didn't do much for my tank but the dungeon quests did. Once I hit 80, I farmed the badges/gear I could and started accumulating better gear. Since then I have joined a raiding guild and have 4 slots that contain raid gear.
All good points. As far as deciding on gear. It isn't perfect but if you look up the gear for protection warriors on www.maxdps.com it gives you a good idea how items rate. Of course it is up to you to keep defense at 540 or above. I prefer stam over mitigation usually. It isn't as mana efficient healing a huge hp pool tank vs a mitigation tank. However, most raid healers (and my shams) rarely have mana problems and it is easier for them.
Here's my current setup atm - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...idge&n=Dohagan
What is easier in healing up dmg spikes vs a constant dmg flow?
For your paladin once your crit immune is to get block maxed out to where you always block, miss, dodge, or parry. Then max out your block rating, I think the cap is 1500 so every block reduces that much damage, then go for stats and AC. Im also on the fence with kings vs sanctuary. Sanctuary does give all your mana back when you block cap, but it also reduces upfrount the ammount of damage you take as well.
Block rating <> block value. Block cap is reach when all non miss/parry/dodge attacks, are blocked. And you will block the amount of your block value.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Starbuck_Jones',index.php?page=Thread&postID=1759 69#post175969
Check to see if you are blockcaped with this macro:
Turn on holy shield, and press the macro with the above code. If you are above 102.4%, block cap reached. If below, take on some more block rating, it shaves off a lot of dmg in the end.Code:/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(GetDodgeChance()+GetBlockChance()+GetParryChance()+5+(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)*0.20333)*0.04,1,0.5,0)