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So I'm trying to figure out what to add to my group. I currentlyy have 3x Shaman and a druid all lvl 60 atm. I'm able to grant 60 lvls to an additional toon (thanks to raf). I'm trying to decide if I should make a Warrior for tanking or a paladin.
Any input would be appreciated.
-r
figure pali becuase of kings and being slightly easier to multibox with.
Pally
No warrior are not a lot more fun to play
I disagree with both.
Create a death knight and get him to level 60 in about 5 hours. Use your levels to boost some other class :) Now you have a tank AND another class at 60.
what are your goals - world PVP, arena, heroics, regular instances, farming gold, etc. for heroics a DK or pally would be better as a tank imo, a priest or resto shaman as healer, and whatever you like for DPS. Dunno for arena, gotta wait for the burst stuff to be balanced before you can evaluate what works best.
Don't see how multiboxing a DK tank would be good due to the runes. I'd still have to say pally tank would better because they can literally make their "One button insta good tank" macro.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=166462#post1 66462
Um, what? I'm multiboxing a DK and 4 shamans right now and have annihilated the heroics I've run. Theres actually quite a few multiboxers on this board running DK tanks and in fact I think one or two of the furthest progressed PvE boxers on this forum are running DK tanks. Where have you been for the last 2 months and why would you think DKs would not make good tanks? Not only that but DKs give shamans a 13% damage boost.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Zal',index.php?page=Thread&postID=166472#post1664 72
Saying a DK isn't a good tank due to the runes is like saying a Paladin isn't a good tank because you run out of mana, or a warrior isn't a good tank because building rage takes too long.
I didn't say DK tanks were bad, when I run instance my DK buddy tanks for me. I said I don't see how you'd be able to box them well since you can't exactly make a one button mash to tank everything. Unless you've made your one button mash - then feel free to post it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=166474#post1 66474
Thats...what I just asked. Where have you been for the last 2 months? Obviously I'm able to box a DK just fine if I 5 box with one and run heroics no problems. Apparently I'm also able to take down quite a few bosses that other people with paladin tanks can't take down when I'm geared less than they are. (Not saying this makes paladins worse, just an observation) Aside from that theres multiple threads in the PvE forum (you know, where people usually post about tanking and general PvE stuff :P ), and its quite easy to make a castsequence that just rotates through abilities that use runes in order. I would post mine but honestly I posted it about 8 hours ago in the PvE forum and its the third time I've posted it there, plus theres about 4 other DK tanks that posted their rotations there at all - finding this information takes about 3 seconds. I really only use about 4 buttons on my DK, 2 if you exclude taunts.
So, the point is - why are you telling someone who actually 5 boxes level 80 heroics with a DK tank that a DK isn't a viable multiboxing tank? Not only that but you're scaring people that don't already have a tank away from using a DK even though IMO its actually the BEST multiboxing tank (and by far the most fun and best utility for PvP as well). I have 0 threat issues, 0 survivability issues, I can mash one button (only use other buttons for taunts and a targetted AoE), I look cooler than a paladin/warrior (IMO), I do more damage than a prot paladin or prot warrior (go go 2H weapon + massive AoE), and I get neat abilities that make some encounters easier like anti magic shell, anti magic zone, death grip, a ghoul pet with a stun, etc.
I agree with everything there except atleast when not multiboxing paladin out damage's a DKQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=166480#post1 66480
Hachoo, can you post the macro you use? I can see how using a DK is more work than a paladin (which is what Zal is saying). I have a warrior, DK and paladin (a few) level 65 or more that I've tanked with and the paladin has been the easiest to tank with, by far. I had some trouble spamming my tank macro on my DK so I'd like to see what you use. Warrior is quite 'fun', imho. I like doing things the hard way sometimes :/
I use the below simple macro and I've never lost aggro:
/castsequence reset=target Icy Touch,Plague Strike,Pestilence,Blood Strike,Death Strike
Blood Strike can (and probably should) be changed to Blood Boil for maximum AoE. So, I pull with this macro (which will use Icy touch), then quickly hit my F1 key which uses "Death and Decay" and drop it right in front of me, then the rest of combat is just me spamming my macro - theres so much AoE damage/threat from DnD plus frost fever and blood plague being spread to all mobs that my shamans can't pull aggro away at all. If I really want tons of extra threat/damage, I just hit my key for unholy blight as often as I want/need to since I always have plenty of runic power.
For people that don't have/want unholy blight, you can actually add:
/cast Rune Strike
to the beginning of the above macro and it will use it whenever its available without breaking the rest of the macro.
For me, so down shoot me down, i think a pally will be best. The reason is that there are only 4 things that i have to cast. I haven't played my pally in awhile so i forgot what the spells are called, 1st throw my shield, cast my shield block (i keep that up the whole fight), cast my ground aoe, and use my hammer (i use this when cd is done). So that is really only 2 things that i have to do during the fight is keep my shield up and use my hammer. The other 2 are a one time use.
I do play a dk, i am currently spec and geared as dps, but when i was getting to 80 i was trying to get gear for tanking. I have to say that trying to get gear for tanking for a dk is not easy at all. I find that the 540 cap is really hard to get. I also found that green gear had more defense then blue and epics. For instance i had a blue peice of chest that give 65 defense and when i upgraded to the t7 chest i only got like 45 defense. I think that blizzard screwed up on there stats for teir stuff. My dk has gear to tank but i only stand at like 2300 health and barely having 540 defense. The only way i was able to make the cap was i had to use my dragon gems (only jc can make and use) and had to make 3 x 27 defense gems.
I am only dual boxing my priest and dk now. Right now my dk is in one of the top guilds on my server. We have heroic nax on farm so i am working on my dps and tanking gear now. I probably will not 5 box again until 3.1 comes out with dual spec. When 3.1 comes out i should have better tanking gear and try out tanking with my dk. If there isn't a problem then i will use my dk as tank.
Here are the reasons why I (key word I) don't think i will like dk as a tank (again with no experiance tanking as dk). There is a lot more that you have to do during your tanking. The aoe granted is bigger then the pallies but unlike the pallys where you just cast it you actually have to click where you want to cast it. I find that with my dk i have to do a lot of combos to max out my dps and i am thinking that i will have to do the same for tanking... well like i said i will see what happens, going to look to see how you tank.
Pallies are easier to tank with especially when you are a fresh team of 80s, but once very geared up Deathknights are slightly better multiboxer tanks imo. 13% extra magic damage to group is better than kings buff, and anti-magic zone and Death Grip is very, very useful in many heroics.
That said I have a t7.5 28k prot pally and I've cleared nearly every heroic (except Old Kingdom, haven't even tried; Occulus, haven't tried; Halls of Stone, last 2 bosses). I am planning on rolling a DK tank just to try it out for the future though, and I have a 70 warrior I may level someday. If patch 3.08 doesn't help ele shamans a ton, I may replace one of them with the pally and respec him ret -- DK tank, ret pally, mage, resto shaman, ele shaman.
Druids suck.
well actually no they dont. the thing is, as a druid, i have two options to grab aggro and runners (which is my primary concern with tanking).
Challenging roar and feral charge. yep, that's all. and for runners who are low on health, i can bash and feral charge. i have more options in other forms, but i cant change forms while tanking several other mobs.
Swipe is wonderful actually. that plus thorns is much better than my pally's consecrate+ret aura+holy shield.
but i find that other abilities that the pally has (avenger shield, hammer of wrath) that can finish off ranged runners without leaving the tanked group a whole lot awesomer.
dk's have that in the form of deathgrip, deathcoil, and even a final icytouch--all ranged (icy touch though, has less of a range, but shouldnt be a problem).
as for how well they survive, well, they survive well. so it all boils down to little abilities each class has to control mobs. and i like the pally's and the DK's way more than the druid. but dont get me wrong... i love my druid just as much. my druid just takes a little more adjustment from e-z-mode.
also, my warrior is a fury warrior which i do not plan on making a tank. i think three tanks to switch around is good enough.
Yeah the OP didn't ask about DKs but perhaps he just didn't consider them ;)
As far as runners, with a DK you have many options: Death Grip, Dark Command (ranged taunt 8s cooldown), Icy Touch, Chains of Ice (won't pull aggro but will slow the mob to 10% lol), Death and Decay (heres where it shines compared to consecrate, you could throw a DND right on top of your slaves without having to move your tank and all the mobs attacking your slaves will come to your tank), and if you catch a runner RIGHT away, you can use unholy blight to damage him while hes still near you which has a good aggro generation. Also, pestilence will jump up to 15 yards and if you're close enough thats enough to put a couple diseases on the runner and possibly have him re-aggro the tank.
Aside from that, I think the DK has better oh crap abilities because they don't rely on shields and can be good for PvE and PvP: Bone shield, Icebound Fortitude, Anti Magic Shell, Anti Magic Zone, etc.
Its true, playing a DK while multiboxing (and while solo boxing actually) takes more skill than playing a paladin for sure (and maybe a warrior), but it doesn't cause me any issues and I suppose if I didn't have enough skill to tank with a DK while multiboxing I probably wouldn't box at all because many things would just be too tough. As it is, I think its not that difficult at all and I like having the extra options rather than the "4 paladin buttons" should I want to use them - even if its not a requirement. :)
lol correct. dark command wont stop runners. if you have warlock on the team though, curse of recklessness will turn them around without you having to do anything.
when all 3-5 tanked mobs start to flee, well... what can you do?? lol
DnD is great for pulling mixed melee/caster crowds if needed. the DnD will stick to the casters while i tank the melee. this makes it easy for healers to heal, as they do not over-aggro the casters with the heals. tank the melee inside a shell and you're on easy street.
Yea i agree warriors are fun pallies are fun but dk's are awesome. I have my dks tank and took 3 ele shammies or mine and a resto druid all 70 but the dk 75. Took them into nexus and wipe the floor with them it was insane. 5 dk's i had some trouble in there 5 shammies had lots of trouble in there so figured. Instead of respecing one shammy to resto i just threw in my resto druid all s2 gladiator gear with dk tank and what a difference whew totems hots and great tanking.
I like my paladin tank because he is the toughest, so often he's the only one left, and then i can rez everyone. Can't rez with a warrior, and DK. I also have played a druid tank from 60-69 (RAF gifted to 60) and I am liking that. Having the self heal, and the big HP boost makes it easy to work my team without a dedicated healer (shadowpriest off heals) Most mob fights I don't bother healing, until the end, and on boss fights, I just apply DoTs in shadowform, then heal when necessary, then reapply dots, etc.
Haven't played a DK seriously, but I think I will run one with my shaman team. And I was considering rolling a warrior, just cause (RAF gift levels again :) )
I can only think of one heroic instance that it "matters" if there is a runner: Drak has spiders that run off to hatch baby spiders and they are pretty easy to dispatch. I am having a hard time remembering the last time I did an instance where the mobs ran off.... so..ya... who cares about runners? Paladins vs Warrior: Paladin is easy- no brains involved tanking. A well played warrior is an AMAZING tank. I wont mention the other two tanks as that was not the question =)
Just one thing to add to this, I have a paladin tank too and it's actually faster to wipe and run everyone back (in most cases since GYs are close) than to rez one person at a time. Often when my paladin is the last man standing and there is still a mob left the mob usually wins. I can bubble, heal, yadda yadda, but usually its not good enough to take down one elite. They just have too much health.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'daviddoran',index.php?page=Thread&postID=167326#p ost167326
I don't think blessings are better than 13% more damage for shamans and death grip and a bunch of other abilities. I didn't even realize we were talking about runners, I thought we were talking about mobs that ran after a DPS. For runners, who cares? I already addressed that any way - chains of ice pretty much stops them in their tracks, and death grip obviously pulls them right back to you, but I haven't yet even found a place where runners matter. The spiders in drak tharon that someone mentioned do run but I've always killed them before they get more than a couple steps away.
Anyway, tanking is mostly preference these days, but when I create a "main" character for my multibox group the first thing I think of is "how much would I like to play this character/class if I was soloboxing" and I can tell you that IMO Paladin is one of the most boring classes to solo box and DK is one of the most fun - so if I ever stop multiboxing I'd MUCH rather have an awesomely geared DK then Paladin.
I'm in the thought process of restructuring some of my teams, mostly because im leveling 3 more druids for my all druid team (stealth runs ftw!) so that leaves one of my teams without its tank. Sure, I could just keep my one main tank and sub in for the other team, but I'm brainstorming possibilities.
Right now I have
team 1 Prot Pally Holy Priest 3x Arcane Mages
team 2 feral druid shadowpriest 3x demonology warlocks
team 3 5 elemental shaman
team 4 5 druids
team 5 5 Dks
team 6 the leftovers, bm hunter, another shadowpriest, ret pally, holy pally.
I'm thinking about making a DK tank for my shaman, and either running 4 elemental, or 3 ele and 1 resto (im so used to having a dedicated healer, not sure i wanna stray from it. I have 5 shaman, so I could make 4 elemental and one resto, and cycle out one of the eles in instances.
But then im thinking, what about putting a DK on my druid team, and leveling a warrior tank for the shaman? I'd love to have all 4 tanks, all 4 healers, and all the ranged casters... Pipe dream for now, but given enough time, its within my grasp.
SO, to the point lol. Does a Dk have better synergy with Elemental shaman? or with Warlocks?