What are shaman groups seeing for DPS in heroics?

I'm a little concerned about my DPS. Running an Unholy DK + 4 elemental shaman team, with recount. I have ~1600 spellpower on my shamans with flametongue weapon (but not including totem of wrath). Typically through an instance I see recount showing my 4 Shamans roughly even at ~1500-1600 DPS, and my DK at around 900 DPS.

How does this compare to others here? It seems like it should be higher, since I hear about moonkins and mages doing 3500+ dps, etc, unless those are "theoretical" dps numbers and not actual recount numbers. The only thing that slows my DPS down is that since I'm running 4 elemental shamans they have to heal occasionally too.

Just want something to compare against to see if I'm doing something wrong or what.

Most instance fights I open up with my DK, then do 4x flameshock 4x LvB, then spam the following macro:

/castrandom [target=focustarget] Lightning Bolt,Chain Lightning,Lava Burst,Purge

Input?

That is about right for elemental shaman with your gear. I am pretty sure we have the lowest dps of all dps spec classes in the game. My 70 mage was doing 1300dps and my shaman lvl 80 in vault raids gets maybe 1700. And thats busting my ass to keep a constant rotation up.

the 3500 you hear getting tossed around is in raid settings. I pulled 2400 dps on heroic vault today (soloing on one shaman) and thats with tossing chain heals off when the AE damage got bad. I was 3rd on the charts too! PUGs make me realize how good I have it.

My paladin is doing about 1500dps, but the shamans just about 1200 eatch, its kinda funnt that my tank out dpsed my dpsérs :)

but i think that will change soon, as my paladin have been 80 for a long time, and my shamans just hit 80 saturday. but well gear will change and shamans will be buffed

My 2 Ele Shamans do around 1700 to 1800, in heroics, 2100 to 2200 generally on the lower side, in 10/25 man naxx.

My boomkin, 1 button spam castrandom, does around 2300 to 2700 dps on heroic bosses and for his pretty weak gear hes does near 3K in 10/25 naxx

what addon do you guys use to measure DPS? is there a standard?

Most people use Recount, i use recount and do my own WWS Reports.

Ok I don't feel quite as bad then. Can't wait until 3.0.8 (ugh I hope its tomorrow) to see how much my DPS goes up - between the LB/LvB change I should gain a lot - 63% of my damage is generally from lightning bolt (usually use LB and LvB only on bosses to conserve mana).

Dont expect a huge increase from the patch. We will still suck for dps. And you have to love the devs idea of aoe. Here shaman use magma totem to aoe and dont drop your totem of wrath. Pretty stupid to do aoe you need to ignore one of the talented totems elementals get that boost group/raid damage. If you were in a raid I am sure the raid would do more damage with your wrath totem than you dropping a shitty magma.

be nice if they had a Totem of the Tsunami that did water splash damage or Totem of the Storm that did wind nature damage... etc.

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Originally Posted by 'pinotnoir',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164034#po st164034

Dont expect a huge increase from the patch. We will still suck for dps. And you have to love the devs idea of aoe. Here shaman use magma totem to aoe and dont drop your totem of wrath. Pretty stupid to do aoe you need to ignore one of the talented totems elementals get that boost group/raid damage. If you were in a raid I am sure the raid would do more damage with your wrath totem than you dropping a shitty magma.

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Why would I not expect more DPS from the patch? I know how to read. Free 10% more spell power to LB, 20% more spell power to LvB, not to mention freeing up a bunch of talent points giving me spare ones to add to mp5 talents, damage talents, etc. All in all even if we're still "lower" then other classes, its quite a LARGE dps boost.

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Originally Posted by 'Meeo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=163928#post163 928

My 2 Ele Shamans do around 1700 to 1800, in heroics, 2100 to 2200 generally on the lower side, in 10/25 man naxx.

My boomkin, 1 button spam castrandom, does around 2300 to 2700 dps on heroic bosses and for his pretty weak gear hes does near 3K in 10/25 naxx

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This is why I say dont expect much. As fur said maybe a 6% increase in damage. Take a look at his shaman vs druid dps. We are suppose to be on par with a moonkin but we are far from it. Elemental shaman dps is terrible. When you have to be naxx geared to do the dps other classes can do with heroics and 5 mans there is a major problem. Yes the buffs in damage are nice. However, they need to do much more work on elemental dps. When tanks can outdps a dps spec something big needs to change. So far the new changes dont close the gap in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by 'pinotnoir',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164067#po st164067

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Originally Posted by 'Meeo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=163928#post163 928

My 2 Ele Shamans do around 1700 to 1800, in heroics, 2100 to 2200 generally on the lower side, in 10/25 man naxx.

My boomkin, 1 button spam castrandom, does around 2300 to 2700 dps on heroic bosses and for his pretty weak gear hes does near 3K in 10/25 naxx

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This is why I say dont expect much. As fur said maybe a 6% increase in damage. Take a look at his shaman vs druid dps. We are suppose to be on par with a moonkin but we are far from it. Elemental shaman dps is terrible. When you have to be naxx geared to do the dps other classes can do with heroics and 5 mans there is a major problem. Yes the buffs in damage are nice. However, they need to do much more work on elemental dps. When tanks can outdps a dps spec something big needs to change. So far the new changes dont close the gap in my eyes.

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Yeah, i myself am hoping for at least 200 to 300+ dps increase, agian that is a hope, we will probably see around 100 maybe 150?

I got just under 3K dps on the test dummies solo buffed on the test server. VERY nice increase IMO. On top of the magma totem changes, this is really nice!

The Magma totem changes alone are really nice. They are 650 normal to 1300 crit per pulse. vs like 250 pre-patch. Going to be really nice for AOE.

My druid is pretty geared and he's not out-dpsing my shaman by more than +/- 100dps (single target). Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I just use /castrandom wrath, starfall

Although, the druid AOE spell is NUTS, I crit for like 1600 per pulse.

Shamans wil be fine after the patch, we're not too bad off right now, deep ele I can do 4500(its been so long since i was deep ele, all wws expired, so no link), so Im hoping t0 gain another 300ish dps from the patch.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164085#po st164085

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Originally Posted by 'Kicksome',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164081#pos t164081

I got just under 3K dps on the test dummies solo buffed on the test server. VERY nice increase IMO. On top of the magma totem changes, this is really nice!

The Magma totem changes alone are really nice. They are 650 normal to 1300 crit per pulse. vs like 250 pre-patch. Going to be really nice for AOE.

My druid is pretty geared and he's not out-dpsing my shaman by more than +/- 100dps (single target). Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I just use /castrandom wrath, starfall

Although, the druid AOE spell is NUTS, I crit for like 1600 per pulse.

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May I ask what macro you're using for Shaman DPS? Or at least cast sequence?

Or at least a link to your armory profiles? :D

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This looks like Kicksome's guild:

http://www.wowarmory.com/guild-info....unGankable&p=1

3K DPS solo buffed sounds like a lot more than I would expect. I do see he has at least one shammy with the dual-wield hybrid spec.

I'd love to hear some PTR versus live numbers comparing apples to apples and with full details shared. I'd do it but <must gear up>

:-)

I start with a flame shock and then use /castrandom lava burst,chain lightning,lightning bolt,purge,flame shock
and get apx the same DPS as my current hit points for a single boss fight so my unbuffed stats are
+1700 spell
20% crit
140 hit
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dps is apx 1700 ( with totems down )

maxdps.com says I should be doing over 2000 dps with only 1500 spell and 15% crit.
I know I have to do a group chain heal once in a while so maybe it's the chain heal that's killing my dps numbers.
anyone doing better than this with using a castsequence instead of castrandom ?

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Originally Posted by 'Niley',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164087#post16 4087

Shamans wil be fine after the patch, we're not too bad off right now, deep ele I can do 4500(its been so long since i was deep ele, all wws expired, so no link), so Im hoping t0 gain another 300ish dps from the patch.

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I would highly interested in any WWS you could get showing this, im curious to the see the data to figure out why many of the current 25 man t7 shamans are no where near that kind of DPS that is not a hybrid.

Just to clarify, I'm getting just under 3K dps with the deep ele build on the PTR on a level 80 training dummy. I'm using the FS, LvB,CL, LB sequence, done by hand on a single target (no heroism), solo buffed. With my Hybrid spec, best I get is around 2.6K in 10 man naxx on live.

With this toon: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...nd&n=Sweetcups

Also, to clarify on my earlier posts, a buff is a buff. Right now I can run heroics just fine. If they're giving my DK a tank buff and all 4 of my elemental shamans a DPS buff (even if thats only 6% which actually for me I bet its more since I probably don't use an optimal rotation, I'm guessing my DPS will actually jump more like 10-12%) will make heroics that were tough before a lot easier, and heroics that were normal before a total cakewalk. I'm very excited for this patch. Really its mostly just the PvPers that are "down" about the current patch, in which case why are you even posting in the PvE forum? This patch is a HUGE PvE buff for my entire team.

With my pally, shamanx3 and druid I have 0 problems in heroics (dps wise). DPS is not an issue and I average around 2K on boss fights in heroics.

I could just as easy use 1x pally and 4x shaman. My druid is rarely at the top of boss fights anyway, although I get the 13% added damage, which is nice.

It's just annoying having decent gear on my shaman and barely coming in the top 10 DPS on naxx 25. And REALLY annoying seeing blue geared people with no enchants beat my shamans on DPS.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164143#po st164143

And yes, I totally agree here. I'm actually looking forward to leveling up my Warrior, Priest, 3x BM Hunter team because of the DPS they are capable of now.

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I agree with Fursphere, im about to go to one of those setups myself, but im going to wait it out until i see 3.0.8. Even if its a slight boost its moving forward, and hopefully they will fix it,.If i see no signs of the change after patch, if it still bad, then i will probably change my group orientation.

My problem in heroics has never been DPS, it's been ohshitIforgottohealthetank or whatthellhowdidthatshamandie? Or bosses that are just ridiculous in dps that straight up healing and no dps will last through (I'm looking at you VH bosses) or guantlet style shit where one mess up means death (CoS, first boss in AN, Skadi). Really dps is no big deal, I might take a little longer to kill a boss, but its never been "shit if only I had more dps that boss would have died."

edit: however I find it really sad how bad our dps is compared to the darlings of WoW (boomkins, mages, hunters) and I am glad they are at least doing something.

I still run out of mana on my shamans in some fights where higher +spellpower would help as I would have to heal less, and cast less before the boss dies, therefore removing my mana issue. This is with 16.5k mana and something like 279mp5 with water shield up (not including mana spring totem).

Also with the talents being condensed I can now take all 3 points in the 12% of intellect as mp5 talent.

strange I run 3 healing stream and 1 mana spring totem and I havent run oom on a boss yet. CoS today was a little heavy on usage since its a guantlet, but as long as its not a boss you can drink. I'm thinking of speccing into resto on all my elemental shaman for the +25% healing stream... right now at 3 it means I can almost ignore my shaman on most fights and focus on dps and healing tank.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164096#po st164096

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Originally Posted by 'Niley',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164087#post16 4087

Shamans wil be fine after the patch, we're not too bad off right now, deep ele I can do 4500(its been so long since i was deep ele, all wws expired, so no link), so Im hoping t0 gain another 300ish dps from the patch.

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How? Seriously.

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Just like I'm doing 5500 as ele/hybrid spec. Yet no other shaman believes me until they see parses...I explained how in another thread, but honestly all it takes is practice, and making Your rotation perfect(yes I spent propably 4-5 hours on a dummy perfecting my rotation :/). Highest hybrid spec Ive seen other then me was 4780.

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Originally Posted by 'Meeo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164111#post164 111

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Originally Posted by 'Niley',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164087#post16 4087

Shamans wil be fine after the patch, we're not too bad off right now, deep ele I can do 4500(its been so long since i was deep ele, all wws expired, so no link), so Im hoping t0 gain another 300ish dps from the patch.

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I would highly interested in any WWS you could get showing this, im curious to the see the data to figure out why many of the current 25 man t7 shamans are no where near that kind of DPS that is not a hybrid.

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15 days expiration on our wws account is fail, i would love to show it, but like i said before i don't have access to it anymore.

Well I dont see the majority of us multiboxing shaman getting access to the gear you have. Until we can get full 25man gear our dps is going to suck. You should post your information on the shaman boards. I have not see anyone claiming dps numbers as high as you on any of them. Grats to you. :thumbsup:

I've seen a bunch of Niley's parses when he linked them a while back, he really did that crazy dps.

One thing I noticed at the time, he put down a searing totem which increased dps a bit. I think it was like 300 or 500 dps increase. I forget exactly, but that was something different from what I am/was doing.

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Originally Posted by 'pinotnoir',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164197#po st164197

Well I dont see the majority of us multiboxing shaman getting access to the gear you have. Until we can get full 25man gear our dps is going to suck. You should post your information on the shaman boards. I have not see anyone claiming dps numbers as high as you on any of them. Grats to you. :thumbsup:

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I do reply on shaman boards from time to time,and give advice to people....but usually I try to avoid them, too many people trolling and crying about stuff. I like this forums a whole lot more :D

well just to keep this thread on right tracks, I found a ss that i think Ive posted before, thsi si from few weeks back, when my slave shammies didn't really had taht good of a gear(now they all have 2 piece t7 etc).
I did this dps test on a dummy, and with cast random macro, no heroism(You can see cd on exhaustion, but that's from my previous try on the heroic dummy)
http://www.hdimage.org/images/pdl5dc...deepzzszsz.jpg


and, Im changing my team too, its going to be Dk tank, Mage, Holy Priest, Elemental shaman x2 - started priest and mage yesterday, and they're almost 60 now. I was considering a moonkin, but I think I'll gain much more from a mage, 10% crit/water/ports/sheep/int, from moonkin i dont really get anything but motw/brez and o sh!t heal.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164211#po st164211

I was just looking at that SS in the other thread. I'm still boggled by your numbers. :D

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I think having a dk added a whole lot more dps to my group, Ive been having some moments when I think in my head " O sh!t" that boss died so fast, after i swapped from pally to dk tank.
Im going to try do one more of those test things soon, see how it goes with better gear and maybe heroism.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164215#po st164215

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Originally Posted by 'Niley',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164212#post16 4212

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164211#po st164211

I was just looking at that SS in the other thread. I'm still boggled by your numbers. :D

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I think having a dk added a whole lot more dps to my group, Ive been having some moments when I think in my head " O sh!t" that boss died so fast, after i swapped from pally to dk tank.
Im going to try do one more of those test things soon, see how it goes with better gear and maybe heroism.

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You know, I tried something similar to the 13% DK thing.

Afflication Warlock brings Imp. Curse of Elements - 13% increase dmg from all magic sources ('cept holy). It didn't seem to help _at_all_

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13% is huge, on lava burst alone that lets say crits for 8k on average its over 1000 damage, now do that times 4(lets say that my main crits for 8k too, although in reality its much more) and You're ending up with 4k extra damage every 8s alone. And that's just tip of an iceberg, as Your every cast is increased.

MY god Niley you are a machine! You just started a mage and priest and they are 60 already???? I have a druid I'm leveling, I can't be arsed to level more than 4-5 levels a week (lol). My DK is level 56 and I started him a week ago, lol.

just focusing on PVE is a lot more fun than trying to mix in PVP right now (and by PVP i mean arena, bgs and wg is still fun). Niley is off on his own little island though, none of us mere mortals can touch his DPS or gear :) Thats interesting you are going for holy priest, even after the next patch COH nerf? Just get tons of spirit and spam PoH/Nova?

I definitely see the difference gear upgrades make, I spent some time enchanting and getting gear (I had 110 badges on my shamans and hadn't spent one yet, lol) and breezed through 2 heroics today with 0 wipes and record times.

At this point I think really the issue is the next nine months, whatcha gonna do? Its a given you will get 2 pc t7 from badges or voa/os, its pretty easy getting even 2 pc t7.5 from 25 man versions. You can also run them solo through naxx (or group if lucky) and get some more, to the point where they will be decked out in epics. I wonder though how many more 5 man heroics Blizzard will release? Historically we'll see 2-3 more 10/25 man raids and maaaybe 1 5 man in this expansion cycle.

At this point really just trying different compositions may be a good use of time, gearing up for really nothing has very high diminishing returns.

Has anyone by the way tested on dummies the DPS diff between just spamming LB and doing FS/LvB/LB/CL? I'm gonna try that later today, just gotta get in my 10 arena games, do 1st boss of Kara, kill Ony, and do the mount bosses in ZG...

I have to agree with Niley on the mixed group composition, I'm running something quite similar. I am currently using a paly tank, so I brought a moonkin instead of a mage (to compensate for no DK 13% +dmg), otherwise identical. I do have a 70 mage and a 73 DK that I might level and switch in to see how it goes.

Apologies for going off topic... but anyway...

I agree that a mage brings a lot of utility, ie. ports/water/crit/etc. However, I went with a paly/druid for the extra buffs (over DK/mage), without access to raid level gear I really wanted to maximise buffs that would help me clear heroics. With the (sort of recent) changes to buff stacking, I used MMO Champion's RaidComp to decide on an optimal group. Its great for figuring out new compositions. I spent quite a while just working through different combinations til I came up with the one I have now. Prot paly, Moonkin, Ele shaman x 2, Disc/Holy priest. Not quite 80 yet, I started leveling from scratch after WotlK came out, but I've completed every instance so far without problems.

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Originally Posted by 'Niley',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164209#post16 4209

well just to keep this thread on right tracks, I found a ss that i think Ive posted before, thsi si from few weeks back, when my slave shammies didn't really had taht good of a gear(now they all have 2 piece t7 etc).
I did this dps test on a dummy, and with cast random macro, no heroism(You can see cd on exhaustion, but that's from my previous try on the heroic dummy)
http://www.hdimage.org/images/pdl5dc...deepzzszsz.jpg


and, Im changing my team too, its going to be Dk tank, Mage, Holy Priest, Elemental shaman x2 - started priest and mage yesterday, and they're almost 60 now. I was considering a moonkin, but I think I'll gain much more from a mage, 10% crit/water/ports/sheep/int, from moonkin i dont really get anything but motw/brez and o sh!t heal.

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What Castrandom did you use for those s.s., if you can recall?

I still use same macro, its
/castrandom lightning bolt,lava burst
and on another button i have
/stopcasting
/cast flameshock
the simpler the better \o/

You don't use chain lightning at all? I use chain lightning on my main DPS macro because it has a higher DPS than LB and its good to take down multi mob pulls faster. Only time I don't use it is when its a mana intensive boss fight. Just curious on your opinion on this.

CL does add dps, but I don't bother on 2 of my slaves as my damn macros are too long.. lol. I haven't seen a huge difference.

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Originally Posted by 'Niley',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164264#post16 4264

I still use same macro, its
/castrandom lightning bolt,lava burst
and on another button i have
/stopcasting
/cast flameshock
the simpler the better \o/

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So i was able to test this macro out on Patchwerk tonight, as well as another..../castrandom Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Burst, Flame Shock

With the /cr LB, LvB & /sc flame shock, i got 2297 and my gears pretty crappy on my shaman.
With the /cr lb, cl, lvb, fs i only got 2029

Again this also varies to others becuase of the difference in crit/haste/hit. So dont take my word for it, but i saw a huge difference in my dps from the 2 different spell setups, i will test it in heroics with my 5 box team to see how they do away from the raid enviorment, i still have yet to get to a town and test my dps against a dummy.

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Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164273#post1 64273

You don't use chain lightning at all? I use chain lightning on my main DPS macro because it has a higher DPS than LB and its good to take down multi mob pulls faster. Only time I don't use it is when its a mana intensive boss fight. Just curious on your opinion on this.

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Nope, i dont use cl in my main dps spam macro, I do have it set to another button that sometimes Ill use on trash. A while ago I noticed higher deeps with just basic macro that i posted above, its a random macro, so Ill take my chances on 50/50 lvb, rather then 33%.
I dont know about others, but I do 4x healing stream, they tick for 1k, that way i still dps for trash and some bosses on my resto shaman, and if i use cl there Ill run oom, as Im close without using it.
Even when I'm raiding on my main, Ill barely use cl in my rotation, only when i need my rotation to "stick", so i don't have to wait on LvB. So while in theory its better dps, in reality I get higher dps without it.