Instance help-any advice for me?

Alright, so I'm doing my first 5 box team with the classic combination of 5 ele shammies. My problem is this-I hadn't done too many instances leveling up, as I figured RaF questing was faster. I'm now at 63 doing ramparts, which is easy for the most part, but I can't beat the dragon at the end. I also tried it at 60 and I wiped even on the trash mobs. here is my spec and gear, it's more or less the same for all 5(I know I shouldn't have done totem of wrath on them all, but I was reading an old guide from when it stacked. I'll respec it later, didn't think it was worth it for just one point.)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...xia&n=Llanellu

is there anything blatantly obvious that I did wrong? I understand it could just be my own ignorance that is causing me to do badly, I just thought I would check in with some more experienced players to see what I was doing wrong.

My fight sequence for a boss goes like this-

spread out macro-fairly simplistic, 2 strafing, 1 forward, 1 back

Drop my totems-first 1 earthbind and 4 stoneclaw totems(do you think it would be helpful to use one totem that boosts armor instead?) , 2nd 1 ToW and 4 searing, 3rd is 5 healing streams, and 4th is grounding totems(though I have this on a seperate hotkey as well for caster mobs)

after that, I pull with chain(or with elemental oath+spell damage trinket+chain on hard boss fights), then spam lightnings and shocks(1 frost 4 earth) as they come available.



Any ideas on how i can improve my instance performance, either with different focus in equipment, different fight sequences, or different builds maybe?? it seems to me I shouldn't have that much of a problem doing an instance at the correct level, much less wiping on one I'm 3 levels above.

I know this has been long and I appreciate you all taking the time to help me, this forum has been absolutely amazing for me as a new multiboxer.

PS- I know it would probably be easier with a pally tank, but I really, really don't like playing melee, and thought it would be easier as I got used to boxing to just have 5 casters. I'll probably sub one in once I get to 80 on my shammy team, but I was under the impression that it wasn't really necessary until you started in on heroics

Well, first thing I can think of is your Earth Elementals. You using those, coz they make the final Ramparts boss pretty easy.....?

Using shocks isn't any better DPS so stop doing that. Else, go the the PvE-section where there's posted Ramps tactics a dusin times.

no earth elemental till 66. And it;s not just ramps, it's level appropriate instances as a whole.

EDIT---on the ramps part of it, I read the tactics in the wiki about taking out the dragon first, and it does sound really easy. I would still appreciate input just for general gameplay and future instances though, if you all don't mind.

Sorry Nic, next time I'll turn the ol' noggin' on before replying.

Sans Elementals, I found it much harder. I'd have the 4 followers pre-positioned with follow broken, then my lead Shammy would make sure to get the first few hits on the Dragon before the others opened up. I used supplemental keys to move the 4 followers forwards or backwards as needed to prevent 'em standing in the fire.

There were two hard parts to the way I did it anyway. One was getting the lead shammy to be far enough in front on threat so he could be reliably expected to hold agro, and secondly was making sure that in my haste to move the followers forwards or backwards that I didn't either (i) move them too far away or (ii) move them too far in, since I had no way to turn their facing.

But I was eventually able to manage it, though definitely not at 60. I think I was either 62 or 63 before I managed it.

I'm the world's worst at instance and PVP fighting, but don't forget to drop a resistance totem when needed, it helps a little when fighting the dragon.

Also, it may be my imagination, but I find that my flame shock packs a decent punch, and has a nice DOT effect as well, for mobs that aren't fire immune.

At modest levels, I try to buff up a bit for tough boss fights with an elixer or food buff, anything that adds to spell damage. And, of course, a spell damage buff on your weapon, either an enchanter created plus spell damage brew, or flame tongue weapon self buff.

I'm convinced that without overgearing or overleveling an instance, it is WAY easier to progress through using a tank, healer, 3x Ranged DPS combo, even though the tank and healer are mostly excess baggage outside of instances. I'm currently leveling up a death knight as a tank, and although I don't find him as boxer friendly as a paladin, it works pretty well. The really nice thing about a death knight is that you can quickly and easily level one up, without having to do the first 50+ levels, and the constant +15% bonus to run/walk speed is TOO sweet.

I run with plate-wearing tanks, so it may not be totally relevant ... but I was only able to beat the dragon boss by hitting the AH and buying fire resistance gear. I had a lot of trouble with him on two different teams 'til I dumped a bunch of +fire resist on the tank and then had no trouble at all. This is theory, but it seems to me that if you stack one shaman with as much fire resistance as you can and sort of tank with him, the shamans' natural inclination to annihilate things in short order will solve the rest.

A couple of quick thoughts, forgive my terseness. I'm in a hurry and still wanted to respond.

* 5xShamans is much less viable in WotLK for PvE than it was in TBC. I know you know this, but why wait to incorporate a real tank into the mix? I would think real hard about getting a real tank for your team as soon as possible, so you have loads of experience playing the Tank+4xShaman setup as you hit TBC content and heroics. I still think Paladin is the easiest tank, but you might consider a Death Knight since you could roll a 55 DK and catch him up to the rest of your team very quickly. At bare minimum, have some sort of tank plan going so that you can be building/spending rest XP with that character.

* WotLK instances will not be kind to you with 5xShamans if you're struggling in Ramparts. You'll have a lot of learning curve to climb in order to see much success with WotLK bosses in the next 7-8 levels.

* Posting/reading the PvE forum and Search are your friends. Both will help with that learning curve.

* Ramparts is a good place for leveling. Don't feel compelled to kill the last boss. Farm it for XP and just skip him... Blood Furnace will be your next step up for leveling purposes and its bosses are not as hard as the last Ramparts one.

The rest of the advice in here is pretty good. I am also going to reiterate that if you want this team to be PVE focused at all, don't have expectations to clear much content without a tank in WOTLK. WOTLK 5-mans seem to have really great design for the most part, and I'll be shocked if someone clears even one instance on heroic with a 5 shaman team.

Thanks for your advice all, I really appreciate it. I hadn't thought of my resistance totems. As far as adding a pally, my rationale was this, please correct me if I'm wrong. the leveling to 80 should be easy enough with 5 shamans, right? it's only in instances that I'm going to have problems. and I really, really dislike leveling melee classes. I figured it would be easier to level my 5 shamans to 80 and then use them to boost my pally up that much quicker. At 80, I'd rather have a 5 shaman team for things like dailies(my main motivation for getting to 80 in the first place, making money to fund other teams) and general world pvp anyway, and then just have the paladin for instance runs.

Do you think this is a viable plan, or am I deluding myself and need to put in a pally immediately before my shamans get too much further ahead?


I also have one last question for you all. Should I be wearing a shield on all my toons? All the time, or just in instance runs? having always been a caster class, I've never had opportunity to see how much damage reduction a shield actually gives you, so I went with staffs on all my toons that had better stats than one hander+shield combos that were available to me.


Again, I'm very grateful, I know you all get questions like this a lot and I really appreciate you taking the time to help a relative newb out.

There is really no speed advantage from 3 - 5 shaman because mobs will die so quickly outside of instancing that by the second spell rotation they're all dead anyway, and the tank really doesn't do terrible damage anymore. A paladin tank puts out high damage at times, especially single target if you do that glyph which gives Avenger's Shield a 100% dmg boost or when you're fighitng a lot of undead. The only advantage to a 5 DPS team is in PVP.

Nic,

Your plan is basically what I'm doing.

My 5xShamans are at 80 and generating large amounts of gold/mats etc. My Paladin is now just off level 73 (having been boosted 1-60 in /20hours using RAF and instances). Two things though:

1) Wrath needs tanks as others have said. 5xShamans just doesn't seem to cut it anymore for most, maybe not all, but most instance content. I'd start leveling that Paladin now (at least intermittently).

2) I'm leveling my Paladin as prot-spec to get used to the spec. Amazingly enough, I've also found it a really effective leveling strategy. Any time I need to go into combat, I make sure to gather up as many mobs as I can and AoE tank 'em down. Generally she kills multiple mobs hardly any slower than 1 mob, and with full rested she's getting 1600xp per kill. With my lvl80 Shammies she's being fed gold, potions, food/water to use without a second thought to speed up combat (though usually all I need is food/water after combat even). End result - questing is easy, and often she's topping over 500kxp/hr.

I used Fire Resist pots for the last boss in Ramparts. A little expensive but it did the job.

I've found that the key to this fight is to NOT spread out. Keep everyone on autofollow and use only fast casting spells. Constantly move the whole group to avoid fires. Sure every fire bomb will land right on your group, but you can react much more quickly if you don't have to figure out which individual character to move. When you see the dragon land, that's when you want to hold down your spread out button and get everyone as far apart as possible. I was able to clear this fight consistantly using this strategy with my pally/priest/mage 3box team + 2 puggies at level 61. Trying to spread everyone out in the beginning and deal with fires individual is a nightmare and makes the fight ten times harder.

Dailies are a bit messy in WOTLK, there is no central hub like The Isle in TBC to knock out a dozen dailies in 30 mins. You have some scattered all over Icecrown, others in Sholozar, others in Storm Peaks, and then 1-2 dailies in random spots all over.

Still, just doing quests and maybe 5-6 dailies a day generates crazy gold -- I spent 3k gold on one of my shamans a few days ago to level LW from 420-440 (damn), and just in 3-4 days of doing regular quests, dailies, and selling some of the items I crafted from leatherworking I've made back the full 3k gold. You can easily make insane amounts of gold with 5 80s, doesn't really matter what classes they are -- having epic flying mount is really helpful though :)

Oh, for shields -- there are good shields that are as good as offhands, so no reason for your shamans not to wear one. Most trash in heroics will kill your shamans quickly, but the shield gives them the 2-3 seconds for the tank to taunt. I run with a mage in my group and he dies 3-4x more than anyone else, simply because the second he pulls he pretty much dies instantly.

IMO - the only reason to have 5 shamans in WotLK instead of 1 tank + 4 shamans is if you plan on PvPing a lot (and even then tank + 4 shamans might be as good or better).

For leveling, dailies, and PvE, tank + 4 shamans is by far better then 5 shamans. having an extra shaman will not speed up leveling or dailies at all as 4 shamans will still do damage to kill mobs just as fast, and if you have a tank as well it will make the 5 man quests easier also (I can say there are some 5 man quests that would be tough for 5 shamans in WotLK, but not undoable).

Anyway, if your primary goal is money and PvE, theres no reason to stick with 5 shamans. If your primary goal is PvP then you probably are as good off or better off with 5 shamans, but overall I think in WotLK a tank is almost a must (and DKs have all sorts of nifty PvP utility and make great multiboxer PvE tanks as well!)