Emblems of Heroism

Anyone else find these mildy usefull to almost useless? Much of the gear that can be had for my tankadin is a sidegrade to stuff I crafted or a drop from a heroic instance. I'm really underwhelmed with my choices. Why can't I get t7 for like 150 badges per peice? Anyways with all the badges I have saved up I plan on buying Bind on Account shoulders and weps for my 3 other groups of characters I plan on leveling.
1 group of DKs
1 group of druids (balance ftw!)
1 group of priest, warlockx4

so.... in order to spare myself lots of farming I am trying to minimize the badge cost. So the shoulders, I'm guessing the spell power CLOTH shoulders would be best. Why? Well I can pass it around and every character on each account can use them. Also they are extremely important for the +10% exp buff. Weaps I guess I will have to farm up 2h axes for the DKs and then +spellpower staves for the other 2 groups oh and if I'm feeling froggy the +haste trinket(gives +mana or health after kills.) For each account that comes up to 105 badges (+50 if I want the trinket). Not too bad considering I already have 60ish saved up on each of my 80s team. Also Stone Keeper's Shards can reduce some of the cost, however they cost like 200 just for the shoulders and 350 for the weapons. I'm not sure I can hit that since horde sucks on my server and rarely wins wintergrasp. Anyways, thoughts? Comments? Feel free to provide insight!

I kind of thought that there should be a conversion like 1 Emblem of Valor for 10 or so Emblem of Heroism. It would go a long way towards fixing what your mentioning and give those of us without top raid ability, an ability to eventually get the top level stuff.

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Originally Posted by 'Multibocks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=159954#p ost159954

Why can't I get t7 for like 150 badges per peice?

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You can get the gloves for 60 and the chest for 80. The T7.0 anyways.

My hope is that as people progress, they will add more items like when the big patch that introduced the Isle for TBC happened.

I got the shoulders for my level 37 mage group and I was thrilled about 60 to 80 being 10% faster then I ran out of RAF at level 40 =/
But ya the shoulders are awesome... the trinket probably not worth all that heroic farming.

Sorry I meant t8, the valorous stuff.

you mean you want items for grinding away pointlessly on easy content that would give you the same gear as the guy who dedicates time and effort into raiding top end content?
or put it this way.. wotlk isnt the complete welfare epixs expansion that tbc was sorry bout that.

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Originally Posted by 'welwyn',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160149#post1 60149

you mean you want items for grinding away pointlessly on easy content that would give you the same gear as the guy who dedicates time and effort into raiding top end content?

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No. But it would be cool to get access to top-end gear while 5-boxing given sufficient effort. You know, similar to how badges functioned month before last.

It would also be nice if arguments to the contrary were framed in a way that makes them sound like the speaker has any experience with raiding whatsoever. GG with the "grinding away pointlessly" comment, since this is exactly what historically makes many raiders get bloody tired of it and decide to favor small-group content. 25-man raids are somewhat better than 40-man runs were, but it's still hardly such a sainted expression of incomparable skill that your comment as framed would be warranted.

remember when tbc first came out? people was saying the same things like why are the badge gear not any good? then the new isle came out and lo and behold people pugged black temple.
wotlk hasnt been out all that long, wait for the full content before asking for gear to counter it.

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Originally Posted by 'welwyn',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160155#post1 60155

remember when tbc first came out? people was saying the same things like why are the badge gear not any good? then the new isle came out and lo and behold people pugged black temple.
wotlk hasnt been out all that long, wait for the full content before asking for gear to counter it.

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WoW has been out a bloody long time. Why would I make excuses for it over it having been patched recently?

That argument sounds good on the surface, but it's actually pretty bad. It's saying that it's good not to learn from experience. Also, it sounded better the first time I heard it than it did the next N times someone repeated it...

so you are saying you dont want to wait for free epix? you want them handed to you before even the players who do top end raids get them? do you also want a /kill mob button for end game bosses if you dont want to wait for the raid to dps him down? sometimes it feels good to work for things than pure pew pew all the time. after all the game is a mmoRPG. by all means have your free epix but let others who want to acheive them through normal means have a chance to do so before you steamroll in and collect them at the dole line.

No, I'm saying you make no sense and are being at least a bit rude. Sorry if I was a little obscure about that.

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Originally Posted by 'algol',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160165#post16 0165

No, I'm saying you make no sense and are being at least a bit rude. Sorry if I was a little obscure about that.

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actually I believe he was being a dick, but you said it nicer =)

How does asking for ONE ITEM with the cost of 150 badges+"free epix"? I mean jesus christ man, thats A LOT of farming heroics where as a raider can show up to a few raids and get the item. Let's see... a few hours investment for one T8 item or 100+hours, which would you pick? The reason I don't raid for T8 is I can't play during primetime. My GF just won't allow me to raid. Those raiders you are soooo concerned about me stepping on their toes will already have moved on to T9 before I can get full T8. It's so unfair, I know. Non-raiders should never ever be within one tier of raiders.

there is no T8 btw.. its 10man=T7 and 25man=T7.5

save up those emblems for the future

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Originally Posted by 'welwyn',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160155#post1 60155

remember when tbc first came out? people was saying the same things like why are the badge gear not any good? then the new isle came out and lo and behold people pugged black temple.
wotlk hasnt been out all that long, wait for the full content before asking for gear to counter it.

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Like I stated earlier, I think this will be the case. As people progress and new content gets rolled out, they will add to what is available for the emblems.

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Originally Posted by 'Lyonheart',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160203#po st160203

there is no T8 btw.. its 10man=T7 and 25man=T7.5

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This is correct and personally I don't have a problem with raiders having access to slightly better gear but I can see the other side of the argument. I'm not really picking a side as I could justify either side but at the same time I'm okay with the current setup.

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Originally Posted by 'mmcookies',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160211#po st160211

save up those emblems for the future

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With the expectation new gear will get released for emblems with time, this is definately my plan. Maybe, more like hopefully, as new arena seasons get introduced and pvp gear gets "rolled down" they will do the same with tier gear.

No one pugged BT until post 3.0

Funnily enough, I do actually have a problem with "Raiders" (and that's an overly broad term) having access to top-end gear exclusive to 25-player raids.

Equal effort should gain equal reward. Now I'm certainly not suggesting that 1 run of a 5 player Heroic is equivalent to 1 run of a 25-player raid, as a former raider myself I know it's not and it's not by a lonnnngggg way. There should however be a point at which the ultimate gear is available via multiple methods. I know that won't ever be the case, but it doesn't change what I think.

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Originally Posted by 'Lyonheart',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160203#po st160203

there is no T8 btw.. its 10man=T7 and 25man=T7.5

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Jesus, is it that hard to understand I meant "the next level of equipment"? T7.5, T8, T13, whatever.

This will sound horribly rude but:
WoW=Progression based
Success=geared for encounter
Geared for encounter=have gear from previous tier
Getting raid quality epics != doing tier before raid quality epics

Ya it would be nice if they were as dumb with PvE gear as they are PvP gear, or for that matter logical/consistent with how they do gear - Getting Hateful from a 10 man raid boss that can be done in 2 min with a pug of green gear quality, but they aren't.

Also remember, Sun Well patch badge loot was not meant to be the standard; It was meant to blow Pug's through all the old content so they could see all of blizzards hard work and the value of their $39.99 | $15/mo.

The only annoying thing I find with emblem rewards currently is that the +hit amulet has spirit (uselesssssss to me!), and the mp5 one has crit, but I rather have hit and mp5!

Actually, most items with +hit seems to consist out of Sta, Int, Spirit and Hit rating. What is up with that!? Only good for warlocks. Almost no hit rating on gear that's suitable for shammies, bar T7 pieces. :<

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Originally Posted by 'Multibocks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160343#p ost160343

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Originally Posted by 'Lyonheart',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160203#po st160203

there is no T8 btw.. its 10man=T7 and 25man=T7.5

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Jesus, is it that hard to understand I meant "the next level of equipment"? T7.5, T8, T13, whatever.

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lol, relax bud, just correcting misinformation. Yes, its easy to understand that you "meant" the next tier. Just don't want some noob saying in his general chat " Hey, where can i find the T8 vendor? " And the whole zone laugh at him because there is no T8 yet. And he might have read your post saying there is T8. Misinformation spreads 8) I know what you meant, do you know what I mean? rofl

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Originally Posted by 'welwyn',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160163#post1 60163

so you are saying you dont want to wait for free epix? you want them handed to you before even the players who do top end raids get them? do you also want a /kill mob button for end game bosses if you dont want to wait for the raid to dps him down? sometimes it feels good to work for things than pure pew pew all the time. after all the game is a mmoRPG. by all means have your free epix but let others who want to acheive them through normal means have a chance to do so before you steamroll in and collect them at the dole line.

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if there's two ways to get the same gears and one way is easier than the other... the folks who do it the hard way are dumb.

so why should the smart ones wait for the dumb ones to get their gear? sorry.. you make no sense. if you want to get your gear the old way, then sure, you play your game. but for those who see good gear and know a better way to get it, then my hats off to them.

I agree with OZPheonix. Equal effort=Equal gear. The only thing inherently more difficult about doing 25 man content is getting together 25 people who can pay attention at the same time for 10 minutes. That's all it is.

Sure, getting together 5 people with the same ability is easier, but that doesn't necessarily make it easy :)

Way back Blizz stated that they liked the idea of equivalent gear from 5 man Heroics and 25 man raids but the problem was one of scale. In a 25 man raid they can design it so that a few people die and you only lose 4-8-12% etc of your raid capability. In a 5 man, you can only lose 20% chunks. Also, it's difficult in the extreme to design interesting content that also does not require specific classes. A 5 man "raid" then would need to be very homogeinized in its content while also being perfectly tuned--IE, the rewards for making 5 man raid-level content is not worth the rewards.

I have my hopes up that they will add more badge gear to the vendors over time. As it stands, all of the 5 man/10 man tokens buy ilevel 187 while the 25 man tokens purchase ilevel 203. The difference between the gear is minimal, but my issue is that the vendor gear plus heroic gear does not cover every slot. It would be nice to be able to get a "starter set" of ilevel 187 items for 10 man raids to be honest.

Anyways, I'm rambling.

I'm not sure what's wrong with the gear you get from heroics and heroic badges already. I am able to kill some bosses on heroics with questing blues without having had any previous experience doing heroics with a multibox team.

If nothing else, the thing that's harder about 25 man raids is that they're specifically designed to do more damage and require better damage output. This is just artificially put into the game to give a reason for people to keep wanting better gear when they move up to 25 man raiding to give them things to work towards. Although many 25 man encounters in the past (Vashj and Kael) have been way tougher than any 5-man content could ever be, that doesn't mean that this is the only way in which 25 man content is supposed to be different. If you think that you're giving an A+ effort for your 5 man heroics which deserves great gear, you still should only get gear appropriate for that content. The 25 man gear makes you an unstoppable heroics machine. That would hardly be appropriate at all. If you want to argue that this is not fair, then you need to argue that the game should be fundamentally changed and overhauled to either make heroics even harder or make 25 mans easier and remove Tier 7.5 from the game. You can't have the game as it stands now giving out 25 man gear for heroics-level players. It would be terrible design that would undermine the sense of accomplishment.

If you think the gear rewarded for heroics isn't good enough, I have to disagree 100%. I mean, I can get a tier piece without stepping foot in a raid? Incrediblly generous.

There are already pugs running Naxx-25; I have personally been in one that cleared Arachnid and Construct, wiped on 4H a few times before calling it (didn't seem unpossible though).
Getting a full set of ilvl 187 blues to get you going on 10 mans (or 5 man heroics) is really easy - crafted gear! Make or buy some L80 blues and fill the rest of slots with the crafted PvP gear.

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It would be terrible design that would undermine the sense of accomplishment.

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this. I multibox because i enjoy the challenge it brings. not the normal 5 x shaman iwin group ( allthough that in itself brings about its own difficultys) I am on about instancing at the correct level for my guys and with the normal gear. on a strange level i enjoy failing and wiping miserably, because i know when i do finally succeed i will be even more impressed withmyself and allthough its only me thats all i care about when playing a game.
on an exagerated level... if you could run 100 heroics and then be awarded with gear that had 10k stamina and a chance on hit/spellcast to replenish all health and drain it all from the enemy the game would be cakewalk and noone would enjoy it i dont think. I enjoy having to do heroics then onto 10 man then 25 man and seeing lots of people working together ( its me and 4 other boxers with a few pugs as some boxers 3/4 box) to actually acheive things.

I didnt mean to come across rude or as was nicely said " a dick " but i find it slightly annoying that while others are trying hard to acheive things you think that its your "right" to have the game opened up within a few months.

I see this is going to start the raiders vs casuals line here. Look, just stop and think for ONE second. You say it undermines the "sense of accomplishment" well let me ask you something. If you are on to T9 stuff and someone is farming badges for t7.5 equipment, at fucking 300 badges a piece... why do you care? I'll tell you why you care. You want to be bleeding edge and you like to be elitist and you generally want to dominate the shit out of casuals when you meet them in pvp or on your dps meter. That is why you care. No where in here did I say it was my "right".

I was just lamenting that badge gear AS IT STANDS NOW is barely BARELY better(and in a lot of cases worse) than the crap I craft and got from beating the heroics ... lame shit. I just wish that I could look at the vendor and go "ok I gotta save up for that slot, oooh and I definitely want that piece" As it stands now I'm going... "uh why would I want that?"

So anyways sorry to step on your elitist toes, but you started it, as all I was asking for was input on my equipment choices for my alt teams.

(just to derail a little more)

I never understood why people think that raiding is somehow "hard" and justifies extra rewards. I have raided and the only people at a raid that deserves any additional recognition are the Raid Leaders; or more accurate, the glorified Baby Sitters.

Everyone else just shows up, tries not to screw up and just does whatever small task they are instructed to do by the RL or by some strat they read on a website. If 25 people can get that right, the boss is down and you move on. Keeping a guild happy and keeping attendance regular is the real "hard" part about raiding.

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Originally Posted by 'Multibocks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160764#p ost160764

I see this is going to start the raiders vs casuals line here. Look, just stop and think for ONE second. You say it undermines the "sense of accomplishment" well let me ask you something. If you are on to T9 stuff and someone is farming badges for t7.5 equipment, at fucking 300 badges a piece... why do you care? I'll tell you why you care. You want to be bleeding edge and you like to be elitist and you generally want to dominate the shit out of casuals when you meet them in pvp or on your dps meter. That is why you care. No where in here did I say it was my "right".

I was just lamenting that badge gear AS IT STANDS NOW is barely BARELY better(and in a lot of cases worse) than the crap I craft and got from beating the heroics ... lame shit. I just wish that I could look at the vendor and go "ok I gotta save up for that slot, oooh and I definitely want that piece" As it stands now I'm going... "uh why would I want that?"

So anyways sorry to step on your elitist toes, but you started it, as all I was asking for was input on my equipment choices for my alt teams.

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Whoa, you're totally off base here. We don't have T9 content yet, no one's talking about raiders versus casuals, (you can be a casual raider, too), no one says they want to own people in PVP with PVE gear, and especially in the multiboxing community I doubt many of us care about maximizing the DPS meter against other people.

I said that it undermines a sense of accomplishment and I'm sure we all really agree with this concept. You wouldn't list beating heroic Magister's Terrace an accomplishment if you did it at 80 because it's easy now. That's the idea that I'm after. Now, maybe you think this idea wouldn't apply here, but you can't scoff at it like it's totally invalid and leading to some larger, more sinister argument. It's not like that at all. I just don't want to find myself steamrolling everything I do and getting bored: it's as simple as that.

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Originally Posted by 'Talamarr',index.php?page=Thread&postID=160791#pos t160791

(just to derail a little more)

I never understood why people think that raiding is somehow "hard" and justifies extra rewards. I have raided and the only people at a raid that deserves any additional recognition are the Raid Leaders; or more accurate, the glorified Baby Sitters.

Everyone else just shows up, tries not to screw up and just does whatever small task they are instructed to do by the RL or by some strat they read on a website. If 25 people can get that right, the boss is down and you move on. Keeping a guild happy and keeping attendance regular is the real "hard" part about raiding.

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They are supposed to be designed to require better gear and be less forgiving. That's just how they're supposed to be designed! I've never, NEVER been in a guild which cleared all the raid content in the game when it was new, so to say that it's not more difficult is kind of silly. I was in a Naxx guild for 60 content back in the day and I did Black Temple when it was still sort of new, and I had a tough time. On the other hand, I cleared every heroic no problem with the same people who I was doing 25 man raids with. It's really harder man, whether it's due to logistics, guild politics, scheduling nightmares, high DPS, whatever. It's not ALL hard, but when you try to do it when it's new, goddamn it's way tougher than a 5 man heroic. I'd like to also point out that some bosses, like Muru, were designed so that only people in the best possible gear with the best possible execution could do it, which you can't ever say about a 5 man boss.