So, I got my friend into boxing like me... she decides to ask a GM.. heres what he said today..

So I've been boxing briefly on 5 now.. and my friend got started last night.. but she was all nervous and petitioned a gm about the legality (she has alotta toons she cares about so its understandable...)

So.. She sends me this tonight.

*sniped out*

I know blizzard has posts in thier forums.. He has a nice line about 'sends keystrokes to a client' and he throws that automation crap in there tho... so i think he spooked her out of boxing.. NOT ME though =).



I guess they just do not know or train their people to identify what is and isnt automation.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5288579356&pageNo=1&sid=1

I pointed her to the above link.

I posted something, then deleted it:P

A gm is just a form of customer support and just like any other form of customer support, they don't always get it right. This gm probably misread the exploitation policy or is just giving his own opinion (note that a gm most likely doesn't have access to the statistics that the game designers use to determine whether they will or won't allow something in their game).

I'm willing to bet this GM is a new hire. There's plenty of documentation all over the place about what we do, and it has been around for awhile. That link is the best place to start. I also think your friend should petition another GM just to make sure.

I asked a GM the same question, and I sad I were going to use keyclone.
He sad, as long as you sit by your computer and hammer the keys, multiboxing is legal and keyclone is a legal software to use, since it don't automatize your characters.

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Originally Posted by 'Yamio',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155364#post15 5364

I'm willing to bet this GM is a new hire. There's plenty of documentation all over the place about what we do, and it has been around for awhile. That link is the best place to start. I also think your friend should petition another GM just to put make sure.

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This.

Maybe he needs a YouTube on how to lrn2GM?...I hear it's popular for people who don't like to RTFM. :whistling:

:: runs outside to walk barefoot in the snow, up-hill both ways ::

Please use image hosts that don't size down screenshots >.<

Edit: its early, I haven't had my caffiene. My fault.

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Originally Posted by 'Svpernova09',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155402# post155402

Please use image hosts that don't size down screenshots >.<


This is only 1 part of the conversation. We don't know what the original ticket said, we don't know the specifics of what the user asked the GM. If you go asking GMs about using 3rd party software to send clients keystrokes. They'll probably clam up and spout out exactly what this GM said. Really sounds like the OP is trolling and trying to stir some shit up. If boxing was against the rules, this forum would be FLOODED with "ZOMG BANNNNNNNNNZORDDDDDDD" threads. As stated in MANY places on this, and many other sites, As long as you're following the 1 click 1 action policy and not using any other form of automation you're fine. They have even explicitly said keyclone is fine. If you're friend doesn't want to box, fine, we're not here to convince people TO multibox.

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I think ya might have missed something in the OP. ;)

Was his friend's screenshot, and he also provided a link to a GM saying it's ok. :thumbup:

Its early and the day star is bright. My fault.

Show your friend this: http://dual-boxing.com/wiki/index.php/GM_Conversations

Much more reliable -- GMs have to give you an answer on-the-spot. Blizz forum representatives have time to talk to their peers/supervisors to get the correct response before they actually post.

Yeah, that GM only replied to the way it had been worded, which was not precise enough to convey how it works.

thanks all, I pointed her to this thread.

I don't have a screenie, but I talked to 2 GM's about MBing (suffice it to say I was a bad boy and didn't want to loose another account) and both confirmed that it's legal and as long as the software does not automate the game, they have no problem with it.

I had screenies where i talked to a GM when i first started, and some dude said he reported me. the GM, like most have, said I was good and cool and he wanted me to be his friend. Then he ported me to Ungoro per my request.

All that is true except the wanting to be my friend part, and me being cool. He did port me to Ungoro and did say MBing with keyclone was legal.

i think what they oughta say is "as long as it does not destroy the game and piss off too many people, it is legal". The automation or duplication of keystrokes are purely subjective and up to interpretation. As discussed before, enough people complain, Blizzard WILL drop the ban hammer.

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Originally Posted by 'reman',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155585#post15 5585

i think what they oughta say is "as long as it does not destroy the game and piss off too many people, it is legal". The automation or duplication of keystrokes are purely subjective and up to interpretation. As discussed before, enough people complain, Blizzard WILL drop the ban hammer.

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I honestly don't think so. Blizzard has appeared to cave many times in the past, but I suspect that they haven't ever considered it. This includes PvE -> PvP transfers and anything else you can think of. There is much more whining done about any given class on any given day and that really doesn't result in action. Why would multiboxing be any different?

It seemed to me that (either by mistake or not) this question towards the GM was a bit leading. Sure if you ask if third party applications that send keystrokes to the game are legal, any GM is going to say "NO." However, the reason for that is you failed to mention the rest of the equation: it's an application that sends keystrokes to the game when you press a key on your keyboard, and makes no decisions about what spells to cast and/or when. That makes it a whole different ballgame. Either this GM simply didn't feel like backtracking after he told your friend "No," or he doesn't know what Keyclone is. I'm willing to bet the latter.

well im thinking not much we can say here will make her change her mind about dualboxing. but what you can do is get two new accounts for her to dualbox and leave her old account alone for a while. maybe after a while, she'll grow more comfortable with it and actually use her old account for dualboxing. or you can just level up two new accounts. who knows. but this is just a way to convince her to try it without putting her old account on the line. maybe it will help ya.

Good link.

Why dont u just show her all the posts where people have chatted to GM's and they have said multiboxing is ok? Surely she will then realise that the words of 1 GM who is possibly misinformed dont make boxing illegal.

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Originally Posted by 'reman',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155585#post15 5585

i think what they oughta say is "as long as it does not destroy the game and piss off too many people, it is legal". The automation or duplication of keystrokes are purely subjective and up to interpretation. As discussed before, enough people complain, Blizzard WILL drop the ban hammer.

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I don't agree. Kalgan himself admits he multiboxed in EverQuest, and he knows how it works - and I guarantee they watch the discussions here and on the forums to make sure we're abiding by the rules and not trying to slip in exploits or anything that could get us in trouble. I think they know how hard we all work to keep our chosen playstyle legit, and we get respect from the devs and GMs when the topic is brought up - they do use careful language, as they have to - but we're fine - people have been crying about it a long time, with no results against us.

I tend to think Blizz is more focused on dealing with gold spammers, win traders, and botters, we're not even on the "problem" radar. We abide by the rules, we're polite and we don't pull attitudes and troll people on the official forums, and we research and verify any issues that come up, and stay current with all rules and policies. All we do is play the game within the rules, and occasionally one shot a crybaby in a battleground. We don't need to be banned, we're not a *problem*, and everything any official Blizzard poster has said agrees with that. We're not trying to hide anything, like exploiters and cheaters.

The only thing that would, to my mind, get us banned, is if as a community started supporting automation, account sharing, and other exploits. If we keep our activities legit, and continue to keep things legal and legit, we should'nt worry.

If one GM is not current on MB policies, it's nothing to get worried about - as it was said, it's probably a new GM. They'll get up to speed eventually. One GM cannot start a ban wave, that comes from a lot higher up in the chain of command.

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Originally Posted by 'Gadzooks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155722#pos t155722

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'reman',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155585#post15 5585

i think what they oughta say is "as long as it does not destroy the game and piss off too many people, it is legal". The automation or duplication of keystrokes are purely subjective and up to interpretation. As discussed before, enough people complain, Blizzard WILL drop the ban hammer.

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I don't agree. Kalgan himself admits he multiboxed in EverQuest, and he knows how it works - and I guarantee they watch the discussions here and on the forums to make sure we're abiding by the rules and not trying to slip in exploits or anything that could get us in trouble. I think they know how hard we all work to keep our chosen playstyle legit, and we get respect from the devs and GMs when the topic is brought up - they do use careful language, as they have to - but we're fine - people have been crying about it a long time, with no results against us.

I tend to think Blizz is more focused on dealing with gold spammers, win traders, and botters, we're not even on the "problem" radar. We abide by the rules, we're polite and we don't pull attitudes and troll people on the official forums, and we research and verify any issues that come up, and stay current with all rules and policies. All we do is play the game within the rules, and occasionally one shot a crybaby in a battleground. We don't need to be banned, we're not a *problem*, and everything any official Blizzard poster has said agrees with that. We're not trying to hide anything, like exploiters and cheaters.

The only thing that would, to my mind, get us banned, is if as a community started supporting automation, account sharing, and other exploits. If we keep our activities legit, and continue to keep things legal and legit, we should'nt worry.

If one GM is not current on MB policies, it's nothing to get worried about - as it was said, it's probably a new GM. They'll get up to speed eventually. One GM cannot start a ban wave, that comes from a lot higher up in the chain of command.

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Well, saying Blizz will BAN might be too harsh. I don't mean that we are violating their rules right now. Just know that these rules are made up by Blizzard to keep majority of the player base happy to generate revenues. Rules are up for changes. Before macro 2.0 changes, I was happily killing people in BG mashing 1 key (solo). I kick when target is casting. I heal when I am below 35%. I attack with a bunch of conditionals. All these with 1 key. I was abiding by the rules perfectly. 1 key press 1 action. What happen there? Blizzard had decided that was not the way they want. So they removed the macro functionalities. Samething with MB. If a lot of people are not happy with us MBers, Blizzard will do something about it. I think currently we are doing just fine as we are a relatively small part of the WOW population. And we've been doing a great job educating and general public about boxing. So most ppl are ok or just don't care about us MBers.

I am just a bit worry about the direction on where WOW is going. I have seen a lot of new contents discouraging MB coming WotLK. While I think Blizzard would be happy to see the profit generated by MB accounts, I am pretty sure they don't want MB grow out of control. They don't have to ban. Simply remove "/follow" then we are pretty much screwed. With that said, I do think MB community will survive as I have seen the most intelligent and dedicated gamers here. They love challenges. They take pride in their skills for conquering them.

... am i missing the part of the blizzard icon next to the 'gm's name? or is that an addon i have that adds that wonderful icon.......

not to be too nit picky, Your friend went to all the trouble of crossing out her name and yet, halfway through the conversation the gm called her by it...

./bored at work

oh no that was me. I didnt want her getting msg's.

They can lock this post shes back to boxing.


Thanks all for answering her. =)