Looking for experience with hunter boxing (both PvE and PvP)

I've been thinking about having some fun with hunters for a while, but haven't gotten around to levelling them much. Basically I'm looking at this comp for PvE:

http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000

and this one for PvP (mostly BG):

http://raidcomp.mmo-champion.com/?c=...00000000000000

Does anyone have any high-end experience running instances with hunter teams or higher-level PvP'ing?

In regard to PvP, I'm worried about protecting the healer. Part of what makes shaman good in pvp is the healing versatility. If my healer gets pounded on I can't really heal him, and if he dies, I'll be unable to res him, possibly making BG's quite the pain.

Before I stopped raiding due to time constraints (Offshore work for 5 weeks at a time, with no WoW), we used to do experimental crazy-kara runs, stuff like me solo healing with a solo pally tank etc. The last few times we cleared it, I dual boxed my mage and my hunter with decent success..

It took some time to get used to positioning etc, and I am still struggling with my trapping macro (drop trap, target focus target, shoot it, change target to lead's target and keep shooting), but other than that it worked quite well..

The hardest fights were the trash leading up to Curator, and of course opera..

Never tried more than 1 hunter though, but I guess it should work somewhat similar to my warlock team, which is great fun. :)

If you are going PvP BG'sthen I would ditch the palas/druid and put 2 more Hunters in.
1xMM and 4BM is good,you could spec for Surv for Expose Weakness,but I found losing BW&TBW on 2 toons was more than I could handle.
Hunters defense is mostly tracking,hitting hard,stealth detection and getting out,players will always be looking to skirt your range and get into the middle of your pack and destroy,whether thats Fear,Blink/ABlast or at the moment Retripalas/Warrior AoE/
Another trick is to peel off your pets and kill them so speccing BM is a real help here.
To sum up your pet is the most important thing for fending off close too rushes BW,TBW and Trinkets will save you far more than ranged DPS will,plus the extra 2 toons DPS stacks up well.
Your Palas and Druid will work nicely in instances keep your pets alive so completely possible.
Regarding healing in BG's Hunters are always a prime target for Warriors and Paladins and I just couldn't find the time to run a healer and coordinate tactics without leaving myself open to more attacks.
I found it easier to just die and res,as it saves time and mana,esp for reviving my pets.
Arenas I gave up other than strugling for gear,once they figure out your a multibox hunter strong team they just LOS you heal/and CC your pets picking off your team.
I wish you GL its real fun and for AV truly evil . ;)

I run a Priest/4 Hunter setup (lvl 72 atm) and it's a much more PvE-viable group with the 3.0 pet changes. Some boss fights are still a bit of a challenge with no "true" tank (hard to position, etc.) but I can clear trash in a huge hurry. I haven't done much with PvP yet, but I agree with above posters about trying a Pally or Druid healer instead, due to survivability. Priests are very squishy.

I currently spec 3xBM and 1xMM (for TSA). I tried Surv and hated it. The dps lagged badly, mainly because it requires more micro-management than BM, and the Mana regen buff didn't seem too impressive.

In Northrend, I was able to clear the first boss in Utgarde and The Nexus as brand-new 70s and cleared all of Utgarde at 72, with the exception of Ingvar (got him to 4% - arrrgghh). I'm not sure how this combo will scale, but it's a lot of fun right now. Not as good all-around as Shamans, but still viable, in my opinion.

I ran 5 hunters to 70 and had some trouble in UK
If you make sure you have a different pet focused on each different enemy in pulls in 70+ instances or you have the patience and skill (i didnt) to crowd control and take one mob at a time then high end instances are do-able but not plow-able like lower level instances. Getting to 70 is fast as hell. The gap between pets and real tanks become huge from 70 to 80 though.

Note: I had total shit gear

I run the following setup

Tank - Paladin

DPS - x3 BM hunters

Heal - Holy priest

I run purely PvE being 65-66 atm did Ramp at 61, BF at 62, SP and UB at 63 and Mana Tombs at 65 my BM hunters have each a BEAR tenacity pet (Tank).

Honestly so far the only use i have for the paladin is accually to position Boss mobs :) cause clearing trash is faster just sending in the bear pets and burn them down they even so far have more hp then the paladin.

BM spec is dependant on pets and from a PvE mBox perspective the most "automated", it's like playing 1 healer 3 hunters and 4-tanks, I use tank pets atm due to their unrivaled ability to handle adds in combination with charge(1sec stun), intimidation(taunt/stun) and interception(dmg prevention).

My 3 pets tivialised the end boss encounter in Mana Tombs and I downed him on my 1st try.

I intend to experiment with marks and surv spec on the hunters but I have yet to find a situation where any other spec then BM would be prefearble, I think so far, respecing and changing pets will be something I have to think about once I start running Heroics, but as it is now BM with tank pet lets me just kick back and lvl.

Also any boss that has aggroreset on main tank is imidiately picked up by the pets most of the time(dont forgett "FD" on hunters and "fade" on priest).

My “fun” team is, Paladin, 4 BM hunters w/ 4 Tenacity pets (Bears). The buffs the Paladin gives to the group are great. Protection aura and blessing of Might are on at all times. Get any “Tenacity” pet that eats bread. They eat the free mage food. It will save you when you’re leveling up. I just log on my mage and conjure up 4 stacks of 20 and trade them over. Now I can play all night. When you can take “Guard Dog Rank 2” After that you’ll never have to feed your pet again. (Just like a warlock!). At level 44 you can get rank one and 48 rank 2.

Those 4 bears would kill mobs so fast. When I get a bunch of mobs that are right on top of me, I noticed the pets would kill a few before I could tag them. So no loot rights, quest credit. Now I just have the paladin cast Consecration. Over all this team has a huge fun factor, for me anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Kromtor',index.php?page=Thread&postID=152948#post 152948

I ran 5 hunters to 70 and had some trouble in UK
If you make sure you have a different pet focused on each different enemy in pulls in 70+ instances or you have the patience and skill (i didnt) to crowd control and take one mob at a time then high end instances are do-able but not plow-able like lower level instances. Getting to 70 is fast as hell. The gap between pets and real tanks become huge from 70 to 80 though.

Note: I had total shit gear

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Only problem I had in UK was the first boss who pretty much 2 shotted my pet in melee (gorilla with 8k hp) although with my hunters I ran 5 gorillas (for x5 thunderstomp... it really works wonders) The trash however I was pretty much able to plow with once in a while having to res a few pets but no wipes untill prince :/

My biggest concern at the moment is how they'll do in battlegrounds. I'm sure that pew-pew'ing stuff with 4 hunters (I plan to boost with my paladin up to 62-64ish) is all kinds of fun, but my concern is my healer. Having only one healer means that if the healer dies, there's noone to res. It also means that the healer will be the primary target and that the succes of the group will depend on my healers ability to survive and my hunters ability to keep the healer alive.

Paladin has great survivability with bubble and plate, but that will leave me without the fear protection of the shamans tremor totem. Has anyone actually tried the combination of hunters+healer in pvp?

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Has anyone actually tried the combination of hunters+healer in pvp?

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Hmm... world PvP, yes. Battlegrounds? no.

Keep in mind, my hunters are only lvl 68 since they're being parked until my priest/warlock group is 80.

I can tell you that my healer druid is ALWAYS the primary target. I can also tell you that I can't do the normal druid thing to save myself (I never did the Bear quest, so I have no bearform... I also can't cheetah run-around because my hunters are following me). Generally, as a defense, I sit my druid on a sh*tload of traps.

My hunters can kill pretty quickly as long as they have range (which is pretty easy now that I have leap-disengage). My druid CAN take a few hits, even in treeform.

I would say based on my experiences...
5x Shamans = easysauce PvP survivability.
1x prot paladin, 4x shaman = still pretty easy to PvP, particularly if they mistake the prot pally for holy (and I fake heal for this very purpose)
1x priest (CoH), 4x shaman = priest drops like a rock if it's melee, easysauce if it's a caster
1x priest (CoH), 4x warlocks (Aff) = Squishy, but I'll take you down with me even after I'm dead. Soulstones are less useful here since running all 5 back is usually less time than SS and rez.
1x priest (CoH), 3x warlocks (SL/FG), 1x warlock (Aff) = Priest dies. Always. However, with 4 soulstones I don't care. ;) This is my preferred lock/priest set, and I've had a great time anti-ganking 80's.
1x druid, 4x hunter = Meh, 50/50. If they start at ranged I usually win, if they're up-close melee it's harder.

I would say, correctly specced I prefer (for PvP): Shamans, Warlocks, Hunters. Facing and range issues with hunters is just plain worse. HOWEVER, if I were looking at PvE I'd go: Hunters, Warlocks, Shaman. Warlock pets are teh suck for holding decent aggro and they take too much damage. Hunter pets are my FAVORITE for holding aggro and (at least as far as pets go) damage mitigation.

I'd say it's an even trade to say they're less viable in PvP, considering that Hunters are my preferred class for PvE.

I can speak somewhat authoritatively on the Hunters+Healer usage in PvP and PvE. For reference, I also have significant 4xShaman and 4xShaman+Tank experience in BC. I'll try to make it succinct, so here goes:

PvE Instances:
Normal instances got EASIER with the post-3.0 Tenacity pet changes. All the +Healing% talents available make Hunter pets able to survive a lot. I did some heroics with my 4xHunter+Healer setup in BC, but my team is still L75 in LK and hasn't hit heroics yet. Based off of hunter feedback, I think LK heroics will be doable often enough to make badge farming a reasonable way to gear up a team. Pre-BC (and 3.0) the Priest was by far the best healer due to Circle of Healing.

My hunter team is leveling 80% in instances and 20% questing in LK. I have not had significant issues with almost any level-appropriate instance yet. All bosses up through Drak'Tharon have been downed by me, although some aren't worth the effort if I don't need any gear off them (e.g. Keristrazsa in Nexus-- I skip her to maximize XP). Lich King boss mechanics rely HEAVILY on AoE damage, so the best healers tend to be Druids or Priests, Shamans workable, and Paladins last place. This is a little sad, honestly, since Paladins offer multi-hunters (and their BM pets) the best buffs with Blessing of Might. My original gameplan for LK launch was to run Pally+4xHunters, but I quickly shelved the Pally for my druid. AoE healing is very hard with a Paladin. I've tried to make it work, since the hunters do appreciably more DPS with a Pally buffer than a druid, but it's just hard to make work. Perhaps when the hunters are over-geared a bit, I'll try the Pally again.

I highly recommend Druid+4xHunters for instancing based on my experiences to date. Like I said, it's still too soon for me to comment about Heroics, but I am very pleased so far. The Glyph for Rejuvenation is very, very powerful on a BM+Tenacity pet (adds +50% healing to rejuv ticks when target is 50% health or below). The pets have a small health pool compared to a real character, but the amount of healing they receive is awesome. It is very hard to kill a BM+Tenacity pet with a glyphed rejuvenation on it. Wild Growth will probably weather any potential AoE heal nerf better than CoH, as well.

World/BG PvP:
I've run a lot of Priest+4xHunters, and I can't recommend it, honestly. A cloth wearer is too squishy, and some of the multi-hunter PvP tricks expose your healer to a lot of focus fire (4xFeign Death, 4xDisengage, etc). Adding any healer to the mix was helpful for topping off characters after fights,occasional rezzes, buffs. However, I just as often would go 4xHunter and either recruit a pickup healer or bring a friend-- this was way more effective than running them all myself, obviously. Paladin+4xHunters is a little better due to the extra durability + stun ability, but you still can't AoE heal well (Pally weakness, same as PvE). Druid is not a bad PvP partner in BGs, since you can root/cyclone people to gain distance effectively, and they can be a bit more squishy. Nice druid bonus is you can go cat stealth and your followers are clumped into an unrecognizable (and somewhat Tab-Target-randomized) clump. Hard for them to focus a main.

I still prefer to bring a healer buddy and run 4xHunters than to try to bring any healer, to be honest.

Multi-hunters in BGs is a totally different playstyle than multi-shamans. You have to understand and play within your strengths. They can do things a shaman team can't do (4x Frost traps FTW in certain areas, longer range to avoid being focused fired, quick DPS (lotta instants and no windup time), but they aren't nearly as defensive due to lack of totems and healing. Feels more glass cannon-y than the shamans, for sure. HUGE fun factor, though.

Arenas:
I was way undergeared when playing my hunters in arenas. I think there's potential for them to be OK with a Healer Partner + 4xHunters in 5v5, and I think there might be some potential in the 2s/3s bracket. I seriously doubt they will be as effective as 4xShamans+Healer, however. That said, few people have really tried them in arenas much, relative to shamans. There might be some uber 4xChimera+Readiness+Chimera Shot combo out there that is devastating. Maybe it's 4xBig Red Rhinos bowling over a team. Lot of interesting theorycraft, so maybe there's more potential than I think. I still believe that any player who could do well with multi-hunters in arena would be able to get 200-300 more rating out of shamans, perhaps more.

Other general thoughts:
Hunters (solo or MBed) require you to know where your enemy are and deal with them before they close on your team. I have been wiped out in world PvP while questing by a ret pally or DK who caught me off guard and started AoEing the group. Same with other strong AoE classes-- 2 mages destroyed me the other day. These types of wipes are frustrating because I know my shamans could have easily healed/totemed and recovered from being jumped by 1-2 players. If you have good awareness, make use of tracking, and play to your strengths, you'll do great with a multi-hunter setup.

While mana was not a huge issue with shamans, it's a non-issue with hunters in PvE or PvP. Aspect of the Viper is wonderful in both PvP and PvE-- I can't remember the last time the team drank.

Running 4xHunters for leveling-- I'd recommend either 3xBM+1xMarks or 4xBM. Gorilla pets are dominating in instances, even above the BM-exotics. Throwing in a trueshot aura on a marks hunter is nice, but is not a huge DPS improvement over 4xBM hunters (which does allow for 4 identical tanks for harder pulls). I've tried mixed-pet groups of many varieties, but all-gorillas works the best in instances. Same with adding in a Survival hunter for mana regen-- just not enough benefit. A fully BM-tricked out gorilla does great DPS with Thunderstomp on 2-4 elite pulls. It's soooo fun to blow through instances this way.


In short, I can recommend 4xHunters+Healer for a nice balance of PvP and PvE fun. If PvP (esp. arena) is your primary focus, I'd direct you to a quadbox shaman setup, but BGs are a blast with 4xhunters. Best healers for PvE are probably Druid and Priest. Best for PvP are probably Shaman, followed by Paladin or Druid. Personally, I plan to only use my healer when I'm instance running-- I have more fun just doing 4xHunters in BGs. Grab a buddy/pickup healer for the most survivability in arena/BGs.

As a final note, a druid is a nice choice for the very few people like myself who have both a 4xShaman AND 4xHunter set of accounts, since that druid can be a nice Boomkin+4xElemental shaman DPS terror, a Bear+Resto+3xElemental Shaman holy trinity, or the resto druid in the Healer+4xHunter configuration.

I'd have to agree with Vyndree's analysis as well in her previous post.

She loses -10 Vyndreemy points for never having learned bear form, though.

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Originally Posted by 'Boylston',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155537#pos t155537

I'd have to agree with Vyndree's analysis as well in her previous post.

She loses -10 Vyndreemy points for never having learned bear form, though.

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I was saving it for XP ;)

You know that any quest that teaches you a spell gives you a percentage XP and stays "yellow", right? ;)

Terrific post, Boylston. I'll add some depth to mine in a couple days as well. I'm now 73 and completed Utgarde. I also may try 4x Gorillas. Currently, I'm running 3x Worms and 1x Wolf for the AP buff, but I'll test Gorillas for fun.

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Originally Posted by 'accretion',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155644#po st155644

Terrific post, Boylston. I'll add some depth to mine in a couple days as well. I'm now 73 and completed Utgarde. I also may try 4x Gorillas. Currently, I'm running 3x Worms and 1x Wolf for the AP buff, but I'll test Gorillas for fun.

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Nexus is waaay easier than Utgarde Keep, in my opinion. I did fast runs of Nexus (sans Keristrazsa (sp?)) over and over again for the XP and flat out fun of watching gorillas chew through stuff. Trash is trash for the most part, but the Nexus bosses are pretty easy. It's also set up to do a nice loop of continual pulls.

I migrated from 4xWorms to 4xGorillas. The worms have some nice advantages, but mostly when you are doing discrete target assignment and tanking. The nice part about the gorillas is their amazing AoE aggro plus respectable damage through Thunderstomp. You can still discretely assign targets, but a lot of trash I can just put all the pets on a single mob and let thunderstomps take care of covering heal aggro for the rest of the pack. The RNG will help you with making sure that no single gorilla tanks more than 2 elites. Thunderstop DPS is soooo good that by the time you are killing the last mob of a trash pull, it's mostly dead. Gorillas also open up the real possibility of using 4xVolley to burn down packs of mobs. (I don't do this all the time but it can be fun and/or useful)

Like I alluded to, I have substituted other pets into the rotation, including the 3xGorilla, 1xWolf group. The AP buff is nice, but the extra group-DPS you gain with it does not offset the lost Thunderstomp DPS from taking one gorilla out of play. Thunderstomp is just that good. (It really should have been an ability on a BM-only tenacity pet, IMO).

Likewise, I have been running with 1xMarksman, 3xBM spec for Trueshot Aura. It is very slightly more DPS than 4xBM. Again, it's because the gain in group-DPS from the TSA is offset by the loss of a BM-enhanced Gorilla. It's interesting to run meters with the Marks+3xBM setup and compare the "normal" gorilla to the other three BM gorillas. After having studied the difference quite a bit through meters and timing of my Nexus farm runs, I will probably switch back to 4xBMs for symmetry, consistency, and the ability to have a slightly better 4th tank.

Can't say enough about a glyphed rejuvenation and a buffed tenacity pet. My little druid's gimpy 1000 +Heal results in rejuv ticking for around 2800-3100 on a tenacity pet less than half health.

The big heartbreak I have about the group is that I miss my Pally's Blessing of Might. The BM pets get HUGE benefit from having BoM + their master's BoM AP contribution. I will probably Powerlevel the pally through instances later, in hopes that better gear and practice will allow me to work her back in. Mark of the Wild is just a little bland, buff-wise, for a hunter/pet.

Enjoy your gaggle of gorillas. I know you'll be a convert once you try them...

Tamed a red, black, gray and Uhk'loc. Off to level them in some Outland instances!

I've thought about a Pally and/or Druid as well. I have both options at level 70, but really like the Priest's PoM (amazing on Tenacity pets), Shield (lots of talents added to enhance effectiveness) and want to glyph my group heal.

Anyway, I'll report in a couple days to let you know how it goes.

Prayer of Mending is fantastic in instances on the guys. Circle of Healing is also fantastic.

My main worry was all the talk of nerfing CoH and Wild Growth by adding a 6sec cooldown. Wild Growth does more healing per application, so I think it will weather the nerf more.

Priest's Fort goes a long way on pets, since they benefit from the hunters' forts too. I think Priest may be a great heroic healer for that reason.

My biggest problem with a priest is that they're very squishy. That's less of an issue with Gorillas than when I ran with worms, though, since the gorillas almost never allow the healer to get aggro.

I think shaman could be a nice option as well, but my shaman are on the same accounts as the hunters.

When I theorycrafted, I thought that a shaman would be the best healer for a hunter group due to chain heals and imp Grace of Air (which is now more accessible in the Enh tree if you want to buff it). Of course, I have 5 shaman and I have a priest so I decided to level with druid healer after having already leveled my #1 (shaman) and #2 (priest) choices

My team just dinged 74 and my Gorillas are now 71.5. So far, I'm impressed. They seem to hold aggro much better than worms, though my dps suffered just a little, perhaps due to the pet level difference more than anything else. I haven't attempted any bosses in The Nexus or UK (want to ding 72 and get another talent point) but we'll see how that goes.

As for healer, I'd guess Priest, Druid or Shaman could all work, though I have a bit of a bias towards Priest, mainly because I know how to play that class better than the others. I've grown quite attached to PW:Shield, PW:Fort, Fear Ward and Prayer of Mending. Plus, a glyphed Prayer of Healing is quite powerful and great to top off health bars during trash pulls. I must admit I'm jealous of the Shaman wipe-protection and the Druid AC, but so far the Gorilla aggro generation has kept mobs off my squishy self. If that holds, I think a Priest becomes a clear healing winner.

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=155783#post 155783

When I theorycrafted, I thought that a shaman would be the best healer for a hunter group due to chain heals and imp Grace of Air (which is now more accessible in the Enh tree if you want to buff it). Of course, I have 5 shaman and I have a priest so I decided to level with druid healer after having already leveled my #1 (shaman) and #2 (priest) choices

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I think Shaman are a fantastic choice. Bloodlust on boss fights would be great to shorten the most difficult part of boxing, and chain heal is a great tool as well (that won't get nerfed!). Totems are also fantastic buffs, as most of us know.

I would consider running one of my shamans with my team if it didn't require another account and a character move.


Glyph of Rejuvenation is really very damn good (+50% heal if target is <50% health). Glyph of Regrowth is another fantastic one (20% more heal if regrowth is already on target). The way these glyphs add to the already insane +heal% a BM+Tenacity pet gets is wonderful...

Biggest issue I can see in heroic is simply boosting the hunters' stamina up high enough to get the pets raw health numbers up to avoid getting 2-shot quickly. Their health tank is a little small, even if the +heal% is enormous.

A couple of solo BM hunters have used their pets to tank heroics, so we'll see...

I took my Gorillas to UK and it was definitely easier. Their thunderstomp just managed aggro a lot better than the worm debuff and is well worth the slight dps downgrade. My excitement is a bit muted by the incoming nerfs to pet dps, but I think this crew will still be able to handle most instances. I'll probably try Azjol when I ding 75 and will report back.

At L75, I have been able to clear all of Drak'tharon without too many problems.

It is definitely worth farming the first boss until you get Troll Butcherers (2H Sword) for all your guys. It's a pretty good weapon, if you don't have better.

I could clear Drak'tharon at L74 with the hunters (and my druid at L72). It's easier now at 75/75. Nexus runs are still best XP/hour since it's total autopilot and I can just steamroll one pull after another. (Due to my inactivity in-game for a few weeks, I'm sporting full rest XP though).

I play 4xHunter + 1xDruid. They are level 69 now, close to 70. I have been running all of BC instances till Sethekk without problems. More precisely, I used to run with 4 cats for full DPS, and I got miserably stuck in the Crypt because of the many adds that spawn during fights. I then moved to 4 gorillas, and could clear the same instance at the same level without any issues. Next in line are the Labyrinth and the Black Morass.