5-box Latency, "One box" or "five boxes"?

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11-23-2008, 02:56 AM
Ellusionist

5-box Latency, "One box" or "five boxes"?

First of all, hello everyone! I'm a multiboxer on Argent Dawn / Horde. I have five elemental shaman, and it's been a blast!

I had a question, which I didn't really find an answer to while searching the forums:

Will slave "trail lag" be better using five individual computers -vs- one? Right now I use one computer to run all five instances of WoW. Everything seems to run great, but when I move forward on the main guy, the clones take more than "60ms" to catch up with me. My ping is anywhere from 50ms-70ms on all clients, all day long. The central office where my DSL is served from is four buildings away from me in the same block.

The reason this question arises, is because while watching my girlfriend move on my screen -vs- when she moves with her mouse/keyboard, it's almost instant. I guess this kind-of answers my own question for me, but from a multiboxing (pun intended) point-of-view, what is better?

I've seen videos on YouTube where the slaves seem like they're instant!

Current machine: Intel C2Q Q6600, 4GB, 9800GT 512MB, 1x22" WS LCD, 1x19" WS LCD

Like I said, everything runs 100% perfect except the amount of time it takes for the slaves to "trail" behind the main one. I've gotten used to it, but a split second could mean a complete wipe...

I *know* five WoW clients are not maxing out my local network throughput of 1000Mbps, and with that kind of ping (50ms-70ms), I really doubt I'm maxing out my available DSL upstream throughput of 768kbps...

Thoughts guys/gals? Thanks in advance!!
11-23-2008, 03:12 AM
Hachoo

Lots of factors involved. If your computer is fast enough to run 5 copies of WoW with no "video lag" (poor video performance, poor framerates), then it will be faster to run 5 copies on the same PC. The only thing that changes by putting them on separate PCs is you now have slightly more network lag (not even noticeable to the human brain I'm sure) added in.

The only time 5 PCs will become better IMO is if you are having slowdown due to running out of memory, CPU cycles, or your video card is overloaded. Or if you just want a full screen for each copy of WoW (completely unnecessary IMO but I'm sure opinions vary wildly on that one).

Also there are other disadvantages to using 5 PCs (not using PiP from keyclone, etc).
11-23-2008, 07:33 AM
ahtremblay

On your master, the latency effect is doubled. Your slaves each have a latency of 70ms when they send data to the server. The data gets return to your master which adds another 70ms for a total 140ms. If you look at the slaves, they should follow the main much closer than the other slaves. This should hold true for all slaves.
11-23-2008, 12:54 PM
Hachoo

That...doesn't make sense at all. The traffic is going the same distance whether you run on one PC or 5. If you run 5 copies on one pc, the traffic from your slaves still goes all the way to the WoW server then all the way back to your main's account on the PC - doesn't matter if they're on the same PC or not.
11-24-2008, 05:41 AM
Sam DeathWalker

One thing I have noticed is that when I have 25 autofollow I have the leader and then one guy on each computer (the active screen) is ahead of the crowd. Like on computer 1, the character on computer 1 is between the leader and the crowd, on computer 2 the active toon (I play in FS) on computer 2 shows on computer 2 between the leader and crowd (i.e. is updated sooner), and 3 shows the active character on computer 3 as the fast one.

So I guess each instance of wow updates where its own character is faster then every other character, duh well ok lol ...

So ya latency, and video update lag is kinda real. Equal to like 5 feet during autofollow.
11-24-2008, 06:13 AM
Prepared

RE: 5-box Latency, "One box" or "five boxes"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Ellusionist',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151152# post151152

First of all, hello everyone! I'm a multiboxer on Argent Dawn / Horde. I have five elemental shaman, and it's been a blast!

I had a question, which I didn't really find an answer to while searching the forums:

Will slave "trail lag" be better using five individual computers -vs- one? Right now I use one computer to run all five instances of WoW. Everything seems to run great, but when I move forward on the main guy, the clones take more than "60ms" to catch up with me. My ping is anywhere from 50ms-70ms on all clients, all day long. The central office where my DSL is served from is four buildings away from me in the same block.

The reason this question arises, is because while watching my girlfriend move on my screen -vs- when she moves with her mouse/keyboard, it's almost instant. I guess this kind-of answers my own question for me, but from a multiboxing (pun intended) point-of-view, what is better?

I've seen videos on YouTube where the slaves seem like they're instant!

Current machine: Intel C2Q Q6600, 4GB, 9800GT 512MB, 1x22" WS LCD, 1x19" WS LCD

Like I said, everything runs 100% perfect except the amount of time it takes for the slaves to "trail" behind the main one. I've gotten used to it, but a split second could mean a complete wipe...

I *know* five WoW clients are not maxing out my local network throughput of 1000Mbps, and with that kind of ping (50ms-70ms), I really doubt I'm maxing out my available DSL upstream throughput of 768kbps...

Thoughts guys/gals? Thanks in advance!!

The easy answer is that trail lag will be worse with 5 on one computer than if you had 5 separate computers running one copy of WoW each. You will probably get about the same amount of ping with separate computers as you did with one computer. The lag is way better with separate computers with their own video card, memory, etc. There is another advantage you get with separate computers and that is you can run all of the copies of WoW in full screen mode which makes the mouse work a whole lot better than with separate windows on one computer.
11-24-2008, 07:40 AM
Sam DeathWalker

Ya I agree. Full Screen is the way to go, as is seperate computers. And in EQ I have perfect auto follow (with 1 leader and 5 followers all on seperate computers).
11-24-2008, 10:41 AM
Hachoo

Yes but to be fair I'm running 5 copies on one PC and have 0 lag on auto follow. I can hop on a crusader aura epic mount and take off running and the dots on the minimap for my clones are almost right on top of mine. It really has nothing to do with whether my copies are on 5 PCs or not and everything to do with the fact that my ping/latency is very good (usually < 60).
11-24-2008, 10:52 AM
Jafula

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'ahtremblay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151196#p ost151196

On your master, the latency effect is doubled. Your slaves each have a latency of 70ms when they send data to the server. The data gets return to your master which adds another 70ms for a total 140ms. If you look at the slaves, they should follow the main much closer than the other slaves. This should hold true for all slaves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151239#post1 51239

That...doesn't make sense at all. The traffic is going the same distance whether you run on one PC or 5. If you run 5 copies on one pc, the traffic from your slaves still goes all the way to the WoW server then all the way back to your main's account on the PC - doesn't matter if they're on the same PC or not.

I'm confused; what am I missing? Here's how I see it.

When I press my jump key, on every client, I see each toon jump (the toon whose account it is). Then a little bit later on every client I see everyone else jump (those that were not the account toon). I assume a third person will see all 5 characters jump at the same time.

I believe wow does the action immediately on your client, and then it sends the data off to the server which sends it back to those around you. Hence the delay.

I would go mad if I had to wait for the server to respond before I saw my character respond to my actions ...
11-24-2008, 11:57 AM
welwyn

your ingame latency is deduced via time it takes for your client to send a command through to the wow server. your display latency ( i.e. what you see your slaves do) is double that. so whatever your latency is you will see the slaves do their action that amount in ms after your main does it. about 5pcs vs 1 pc the lag will be the same if all pcs are exactly the same, and they all connect via the same router. the only time 5pcs would be quicker is when running with a low transfer router or when you are sending very high volume packets to wow, which happens very rarely. so the question you have to ask next is do you have the room for 5 pcs and want to swivvle around all the time or use the 1 pc and use PiP.
11-24-2008, 12:19 PM
Naylix

20ms, 60ms, 100ms, 150ms - doesn't make a flying farts difference.

World of warcraft, by design, has a built-in "equalizer", which sets just about everyone to the SAME latency. This is a builtin delay, to prevent people with Gigabit dedicated fibreconnections being vastly superior to those with normal aDSL crap copper connections.

I cannot remember the correct number, but it is in the 2-300ms area. So yes, you will experience this "trail" after - but only from your mains viewpoint. Try being on the receiving end of 5 * earthshocks - or just cast 5*heals on yourself. They all land EXACTLY at the same time. This is because the game compensates, to make it a smooth experience for everyone.

Or hitch a ride on a mammoth - since it's someone else controlling it, ask him/her to do a bunch of rapid course-adjustments while riding and you will feel like you're lagging because his input has to correct your course constantly.

Your connection will feel laggy, when you approach 300+ms - then your internet latency surpasses the builtin latency (or a combination of the two) - and raids wipe.

You will never be able to move and work as efficiently as 5 individual characters *could*. However, with the amount of casuals in this game, you will be hard pressed to find a 5man group able to move half as effectively as a neutered multiboxer :/

Oh well...
11-24-2008, 12:21 PM
Hachoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Naylix',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151485#post1 51485

20ms, 60ms, 100ms, 150ms - doesn't make a flying farts difference.

World of warcraft, by design, has a built-in "equalizer", which sets just about everyone to the SAME latency. This is a builtin delay, to prevent people with Gigabit dedicated fibreconnections being vastly superior to those with normal aDSL crap copper connections.

I cannot remember the correct number, but it is in the 2-300ms area. So yes, you will experience this "trail" after - but only from your mains viewpoint. Try being on the receiving end of 5 * earthshocks - or just cast 5*heals on yourself. They all land EXACTLY at the same time. This is because the game compensates, to make it a smooth experience for everyone.

Or hitch a ride on a mammoth - since it's someone else controlling it, ask him/her to do a bunch of rapid course-adjustments while riding and you will feel like you're lagging because his input has to correct your course constantly.

Your connection will feel laggy, when you approach 300+ms - then your internet latency surpasses the builtin latency (or a combination of the two) - and raids wipe.

You will never be able to move and work as efficiently as 5 individual characters *could*. However, with the amount of casuals in this game, you will be hard pressed to find a 5man group able to move half as effectively as a neutered multiboxer :/

Oh well...

This is completely false. If I hit 140+ ms latency I can no longer auto follow with crusader aura without losing a character occasionally. If I hit 170+ then regular epic mounts can and will sometimes cause me to lose follow randomly as my follow distance will be very far. When I sit at my normal 60ms, my follow distance is extremely close and I NEVER lose follow.

Also when my latency gets higher (200+ or so) I do notice my spells hit at different times, etc.
11-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Boylston

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151503#po st151503

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Naylix',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151485#post1 51485

20ms, 60ms, 100ms, 150ms - doesn't make a flying farts difference.

Ya... no!

The difference between 70ms and 150ms is huge. You can "feel" it - and see it in auto-follow.

It does make a huge difference. I have been playing on a hotel connection with very different latencies depending on the time of day, and it ranges from "ok" to "unplayable", directly tied to my average ping to the server (measured externally using PingPlotter, not the in-game latency meter). My home connection, which has a 70ms ping, feels sooo goooood compared to these higher ping connections. Results are very visible in auto-follow.
11-24-2008, 02:01 PM
Kaynin

About a multiple system adding latency:

I thought the fact that you will already have client to server lag, it doesn't matter if you have a minimal bit of networklag apart from 'openers'. But during spamming, the fact you already have lets say, 50ms latency, and suppose your network has ehm, 25ms latency, it will effectively overlap, not increasing the already existant client-server lag.

Well, apart from like I said, the first press on a button when opening dps. Which increase -really- isn't noticable anyhow.
11-24-2008, 03:52 PM
Sam DeathWalker

If I see latency over 100ms I don't even bother to play.... at least in EQ, not sure about wow yet but in eq a delay during a complicated pull is a full wipe. Seems in wow though its almost impossible to wipe to similar level mobs .... well with 25 guys.