anub'arak... what am I doing wrong

I've wiped about 15 times in the first room now, and given up. I must be missing something obvious. Fight typically goes like this:

Pull 3, paladin instantly loses aggro on one, no matter what I do. Taunt fails 80% of the time. Shaman proceeed to get 2 shotted by the loose mob.

and/or:

Entire group gets conflagged, even if I'm facing the mobs the other direction. I take 2-3.5k enraged hits + shadowbolts until dead with no heals. Shaman die shortly after.

Every pull is like this.. my shaman only have 900 spell dmg and I've stopped using EM or their trinkets just to make sure they aren't over-nuking, but we get wiped in the samemanner, every pull, like clockwork...

what am I doing wrong? I thought this was a 20 minute instance...

You need to put in more info like what level and what your tank gear is like. I cleared AzN and the other one at 71, wiped a few times, cleared it today at 74 without a wipe (way way easier too).

I did wipe the first time I did the first room, its really about positioning and letting the tank build some aggro. What I do is put all my guys a few steps behind my tank, and leave them there. Remember, if you are 10 yards or further from the mob, you "get" 30% extra threat (you only pull if you do 130% or more than the tank). Now, I have omen on every single char and I have it always open on my tank. If I notice my guys are falling behind, I simply click on my tank window (instead of spamming attack keys) until I get some extra threat, only takes a few seconds.

I open with shield, pop consecrate, then spam my attack key which does a castrandom of hammer of the righteous, judgement of light, holy shield, and consecrate. Remember, most of AzN is undead mobs so USE HOLY WRATH -- insta cast that does crazy damage (and threat!).

Also, I find many mb'ers tend to be bad about healing. I basically always try to keep my tank at 70% or more - lightning bolt, lesser healing wave, chain lightning, lightning bolt, lesser heal, etc, etc. Don't get into the mentality of "omg I will kill them so fast I won't need any heals!!", that won't work in heroics.

When the guy does his little "fear" I just spam my F key (follow) as I move my tank near my shamans, and then back them up a sec before DPSing again.

Remember, a tank SHOULD NEVER HAVE HIS BACK TO MOBS. if you do, you have 0 defense and take full crits. You should always be "facing" every mob, you may have to occasionally reposition stuff. Get good at this. I also have shift-QWEASD bound to my alts and passed through, so for example if I need everyone to follow me and then backup I just press F (/follow focus), then shift-S and everyone takes one step back.

Also its prob personal preference but I kill the small guys first then the big guy, they die faster. Once I did get very, very low and one guy died, its because I got flustered, didn't heal up my tank when he got to 50%, and then got hit by a fear (btw always have grounding and tremor totems down, not sure if tremor helps with the "fear" but it does later on in other places).

Yes the MAIN flaw of your gear is that you favour AP and crit over spelldamage!

I assume this is your paladin?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ezim&n=Mevrouw

I would recomend you to take a look into the paladin tanking guides at your local wow forum to maximize your tanking!

Spelldamage is the MAIN source of treath to a prot paladin and sadly i havent seen any gear with spell damage on... AP is nearly useless compared to spelldamage when it comes to paladin tanking.

I got 700 spelldamage and since my shamans only got 700 spelldamage aswell i dont realy lose aggro EVER if i wait 2 seconds with the dps or dont heal untill they are inside my concentration.

But since your spelldamage is so low concentration and avengers shield cant keep up on treath with even your healing..

But paladin tanking gear aint easy to come by i got alot of crappy stuff myself since i didnt use mine as a tank pre wotlk!

Hope this helps :)

What i realise is that the guides ive been reading have been targeted for TBC tanking and might not be right with the spelldamage thing!

Can anyone true/false my statments?

Thanks! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Dominian',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150002#pos t150002

Yes the MAIN flaw of your gear is that you favour AP and crit over spelldamage!

I assume this is your paladin?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ezim&n=Mevrouw

I would recomend you to take a look into the paladin tanking guides at your local wow forum to maximize your tanking!

Spelldamage is the MAIN source of treath to a prot paladin and sadly i havent seen any gear with spell damage on... AP is nearly useless compared to spelldamage when it comes to paladin tanking.

I got 700 spelldamage and since my shamans only got 700 spelldamage aswell i dont realy lose aggro EVER if i wait 2 seconds with the dps or dont heal untill they are inside my concentration.

But since your spelldamage is so low concentration and avengers shield cant keep up on treath with even your healing..

But paladin tanking gear aint easy to come by i got alot of crappy stuff myself since i didnt use mine as a tank pre wotlk!

Hope this helps :)

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I definitely don't favor the ap/crit gear, that's just what the quest rewards are giving unfortunately. I'll double check my bags to see if I have more spell dmg gear, but I've had a great deal of trouble gearing my tank with the wotlk gear. Lack of good tanking gear is why I waited until 73.

So what do I do about the conflag on my whole group?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'puppychow',index.php?page=Thread&postID=149734#po st149734

Remember, a tank SHOULD NEVER HAVE HIS BACK TO MOBS. if you do, you have 0 defense and take full crits. You should always be "facing" every mob, you may have to occasionally reposition stuff.

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Sorry that wasn't very clear - I'm always facing the mobs, I meant the mobs are not facing my shaman when I get hit with the conflag/scatter shot type thing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'heyaz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150018#post15 0018

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Dominian',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150002#pos t150002

Yes the MAIN flaw of your gear is that you favour AP and crit over spelldamage!

I assume this is your paladin?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ezim&n=Mevrouw

I would recomend you to take a look into the paladin tanking guides at your local wow forum to maximize your tanking!

Spelldamage is the MAIN source of treath to a prot paladin and sadly i havent seen any gear with spell damage on... AP is nearly useless compared to spelldamage when it comes to paladin tanking.

I got 700 spelldamage and since my shamans only got 700 spelldamage aswell i dont realy lose aggro EVER if i wait 2 seconds with the dps or dont heal untill they are inside my concentration.

But since your spelldamage is so low concentration and avengers shield cant keep up on treath with even your healing..

But paladin tanking gear aint easy to come by i got alot of crappy stuff myself since i didnt use mine as a tank pre wotlk!

Hope this helps :)

---

I definitely don't favor the ap/crit gear, that's just what the quest rewards are giving unfortunately. I'll double check my bags to see if I have more spell dmg gear, but I've had a great deal of trouble gearing my tank with the wotlk gear. Lack of good tanking gear is why I waited until 73.

So what do I do about the conflag on my whole group?

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Yes the quest rewards for prot paladins is horrible i agree with you on that! :)

I havent tested the instance yet but have you tested the max range of it? Do they still get conflagged if you spread them out?

I guess someone who cleared it would be of better help on that! :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Dominian',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150021#pos t150021

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'heyaz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150018#post15 0018

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Dominian',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150002#pos t150002

Yes the MAIN flaw of your gear is that you favour AP and crit over spelldamage!

I assume this is your paladin?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ezim&n=Mevrouw

I would recomend you to take a look into the paladin tanking guides at your local wow forum to maximize your tanking!

Spelldamage is the MAIN source of treath to a prot paladin and sadly i havent seen any gear with spell damage on... AP is nearly useless compared to spelldamage when it comes to paladin tanking.

I got 700 spelldamage and since my shamans only got 700 spelldamage aswell i dont realy lose aggro EVER if i wait 2 seconds with the dps or dont heal untill they are inside my concentration.

But since your spelldamage is so low concentration and avengers shield cant keep up on treath with even your healing..

But paladin tanking gear aint easy to come by i got alot of crappy stuff myself since i didnt use mine as a tank pre wotlk!

Hope this helps :)

---

I definitely don't favor the ap/crit gear, that's just what the quest rewards are giving unfortunately. I'll double check my bags to see if I have more spell dmg gear, but I've had a great deal of trouble gearing my tank with the wotlk gear. Lack of good tanking gear is why I waited until 73.

So what do I do about the conflag on my whole group?

---

Yes the quest rewards for prot paladins is horrible i agree with you on that! :)

I havent tested the instance yet but have you tested the max range of it? Do they still get conflagged if you spread them out?

I guess someone who cleared it would be of better help on that! :(

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Checked my bags and only had a few pieces with spell dmg, put them on but they kill my stam (of which I have very little to being with). I've been hearing a lot to stack stam and gear like a warrior tank and that the talents would give me enough spell power.

It's really onlt this instance where I'm having the aggro issues, that's why I'm wondering if there are some things I need to be aware of. When I was doing UK at 71, pally was holding 4-5 pulls no problem. This instance, 3 mobs, I lose one pretty easily.

I'll see how far back I can put my shaman, maybe they were too close. I usually park them 10-20 yars behind the paladin, they're not on follow. Maybe I can leave them at the entrance to that room and tank wayy ahead

Are you using Holy Wrath on the UD mobs?

You could try to use windshock and see if it gets better(http://thottbot.com/s57994)

But the whole deal sounds rather strange to me.

Wait, what's all this talk about spell damage gear for paladin tanks?? Do not go for spell damage gear. Stack Stamina, Strength and Defense.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...ic.php?t=16825

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Tamu',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150030#post150 030

Wait, what's all this talk about spell damage gear for paladin tanks?? Do not go for spell damage gear. Stack Stamina, Strength and Defense.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...ic.php?t=16825

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Eeeek

Glad you could correct me on this since as i said i was reading a 70 guide..

But why are we suddenly not in need of spelldamage?

paladins now, since 3.0, get 30% spell damage from stamina. ie if you have +100 stamina you will get "for free" 30 spell damage. Paladin tanks now itemize exactly the same as warriors -- get enough defense to be capped (not sure what it is from 70-80, but you will need A TON -- like close to 600 i think?), then just focus on stamina, strength, and dodge/block/parry (avoidance). It makes no sense anymore to ever enchant, gem, or seek out items that have +spell damage -- you will get PLENTY automatically from stamina.

For example I just picked up at level 74 yesterday a very, very nice tanking weapon http://www.wowhead.com/?item=44735 - easy 5 minute quest you can do with a team. I picked up slow axe because it helps hammer of righteousness blows, some tanks will prefer the faster mace (imo the mace is more for warrior tanks but up to you). I was wearing the s2 spell dmg mage up until then, since I didn't really have a good "warrior tank" weapon, but the new axe is far and away better at helping me get threat.

Touched by the Light:
increases spellpower by 30% of sta

its not that we don't need spell power, but we have different options of achieving it now

Okey i read this and it helped me out a GREAT deal!

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...ic.php?t=11557

Get 540 defense for uncritable at 80.

Your problem is not your amount of threat, it's the anub'ar skirmisher in the pack. They do a charge / aggro dump and are not tauntable. Not only are they not tauntable, they appear to be focus on the charged party member no matter how much threat you put out.

I have been dealing with them by keeping group somewhat close and stunning while trying to nuke them fast enough.