5 shaman team or DK + 4 shaman from 70-80 and beyond?

Ok so now comes the time where I make the final decision on the single makeup of my team. I'm the kind of person who likes to have just one team, and I like to have the same people on that team EVERY time. I don't like switching out a character (for instance my main shaman for a paladin tank for instances.

So, the question is about Death Knights. I've already decided I don't like 1 pally 4 shaman for multiboxing. It really doesn't have much PvP utility especially not for bgs/world pvp that I typically do. 5 Shaman is quite awesome for PvP but I've been having a lot of trouble in instances such as utgarde keep and a lot of the 70 BC instances without overgearing them. I don't really want to have to severely overgear instances to be able to run them (halfway defeats the point for me).

So right now I'm leveling a DK with 4 of my shamans, 65 so far and going super fast - couple hours per level. Anyway, I'll hit 70 soon and thats the point where I have to decide, level 1 DK and 4 shamans or just keep leveling 5 shamans and keep the DK as a solo only character (which will probably never get played).

Now that some of you have Lava Burst, and have done some pvp and pve with different makeups, what do you guys think the verdict is for both PvE and PvP on tank (specifically DK) + 4 shaman vs 5 shaman. Initially I thought I was just going to stick with 5 shaman but after getting my ass handed to me repeatedly in Utgarde Keep even with 4-5 epics per shaman, I decided maybe its not going to be nearly as effective as I thought for PvE. Plus the DK seems to have far more PvP utility with death grip, anti magic zone, some ranged attacks, stuns, self healing, etc. It just seems a bit more complicated in PvP though to maneuver my DK with the shamans in tow (have to basically stop them from following when I go to attack someone with the DK which makes them nearly completely immobile).

Just looking for input - once I make the decision and start powering my team to 80 thats pretty much the team I will end up with and keep for good.

Having something that wears plate is always a plus for instances..

I'd say DK + shamans would be good mostly for pve because DK can tank but would suck in pvp because you'd have to get the close to attack which would put shamans at risk. So i'd have to say 5 shaman would be the best. Just going to have to spec one shaman resto so he can heal for instances instead of dps.

Hm..thanks for advice.

Keep in mind though that I wouldn't have to bring the shamans close to attack something, just stop them from following and run up tot he person I'm attacking while my shamans sit back and shoot lightning bolts or lava bursts or whatever. Also the DK can pull someone to the team or away from the shamans.

I dont think speccing 1 shaman resto helps with a 5 shaman team for instances, in fact from what I've read it makes it worse :(

I'm still torn. The other upside to the DK (not sure that it matters though) is if I made the DK my "main" i'd actually play him solo sometimes with friends...no way I'm playing an ele shaman solo, most boring class/spec ever :)

Does the deathknight bring something better to the party than 10% to all stats that a pally would.

I would think that if you went with 5 shaman and then wanted to bring a death knight in it wouldn't be that terrible. Starting at level 55 can't be that bad.

Death Knight brings +13% magic damage for the entire party, an anti magic zone, +86 str/agi for the party, ability for the entire party to walk on water at any time, an immobilize effect, 2 silences, 2 taunts, 3 AoE abilities, etc etc etc

This is all PvE type stuff though.

I already have the DK at 65 anyway, the 5 shamans are at 70. But I really don't want to switch back and forth between 5 shamans and 4 shaman 1 DK, I want to make a decision, make it final, and keep that 5 man team for good. Just a tough decision.

One thing that might affect it... if I were to say stop multiboxing right now and play solo for good, I would never use my elemental shaman. Just a boring class solo IMO. If I spent months or a year+ making my 5 shamans awesome (including my main shaman) and then cut back on wow and stopped multiboxing, would I keep playing a single shaman? No. Would I keep playing a DK if the DK was my main? Probably.

Thats a pretty big thing there I guess...

"He who wins at PvE wins at PvP" - SDW '08

You need the DK (or Pal) for PvE, period. You need PvE to gear up your guys both in levels and gear to win at PvP. ... not all that complicated.

having the 4th as a tank is always nice. 4x ele shaman will instagib just about anything anyway. If you don't have a tank, instaces are going to [s]be a pain[/s] take a lot of creativity

In high end pvp, such as arenas, a second person playing a dedicated healer is pretty clutch. And even if you're doing world pvp or battlegrounds, how much more would that dedicated healer help you dominate. My biggest regret for my first team is not having a tank. I really wanted to do instances and anything else that needed armor better than cloth, and I just couldn't

Hmm, all good points. Guess I'll experiment with PvP more with the DK as the lead. If nothing else I can just let him sit there (and look 10x more cool than a pally doing it). I dont really care about arenas so having less arena viability means next to nothing to me. If nothing else I would just use 4 shamans with a healer friend to arena and then use the DK for instances, world pvp, bgs, etc.

Btw does the DK only purchaseable mount actually look like one of those cooked chickens? If so thats a HUGE disappointment because they look retarded and I was hoping for a kickass looking dragon.

I believe they changed the model after much outcry, havent seen it lately though.

I found that my pally was a huge help in av. I had him spec prot, which solo he sucks, but with the 4 shams he was awesome. What really made the pally good at being the leader is that he could take a ton of damage and still live (a lot of times people focused on him instead of my shams), but really helped the most was his stun... every 30 seconds i would have my stun up and that helped a ton against mages, warriors, lock, and runners. Having 4 pieces out the pvp gear i get my stun to 20 seconds. Telling you a lot of alliance where pissed thinking that they almost got threw me then they got stun and died. Have 4 dps shams the person usually dies before the stun wears off.

True.. DKs can do that too, only better. The ghoul has its own 3 sec stun, theres also a 100% immobilize, death grip is a temporary stun, etc, so I still think the DK shines for PvP more than the pally. Might be a bit easier to take down a DK than a pally but the DK also does not rely on mana and can do more damage. Plus the fact that you can lay down a death and decay which has a huge radius and will slow everyone down in it will make rogues who like to bob and weave a bit easier to target/shock as needed I think.

Just musings for now. More input always desired!

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Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148945#post1 48945

True.. DKs can do that too, only better. The ghoul has its own 3 sec stun, theres also a 100% immobilize, death grip is a temporary stun, etc, so I still think the DK shines for PvP more than the pally. Might be a bit easier to take down a DK than a pally but the DK also does not rely on mana and can do more damage. Plus the fact that you can lay down a death and decay which has a huge radius and will slow everyone down in it will make rogues who like to bob and weave a bit easier to target/shock as needed I think.

Just musings for now. More input always desired!

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Shit great points... didn't know they could do that (just lvling my guy in blood for now), but with blood i find myself focusing a lot on my DK. This is just me you might have a better time. If the DK can do that and you can MB with him without a problem then maybe you should go with him. I just know that i wouldn't be able to handle it.

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Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148759#post1 48759

I dont think speccing 1 shaman resto helps with a 5 shaman team for instances, in fact from what I've read it makes it worse :(

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I run a 5 shaman team and I have no problem clearing UK, I did respec my 5th shaman Resto and it made going through UK a breaze. You dont even have to try hard, just map chain heal to your CL, LB buttons and have him targeting your lead shaman. You dont have to move from that setup till you hit the last boss where I just tank with my main shamans and use well timed lesser healing wave and riptide.

I'm level 72 at the moment and I did a complete level in UK. (I'm not saying 5x shaman is better than 4x shaman + dk or pally, wish I had a plate wearer at times as it would make instances easy mode)

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148780#p ost148780

"He who wins at PvE wins at PvP" - SDW '08

You need the DK (or Pal) for PvE, period. You need PvE to gear up your guys both in levels and gear to win at PvP. ... not all that complicated.

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PvE and PvP require different gearsets obtained by different means. No advanced PvE (tank class) required for PvPers beyond leveling to 80.

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Originally Posted by 'Nitro',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148989#post14 8989

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148780#p ost148780

"He who wins at PvE wins at PvP" - SDW '08

You need the DK (or Pal) for PvE, period. You need PvE to gear up your guys both in levels and gear to win at PvP. ... not all that complicated.

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PvE and PvP require different gearsets obtained by different means. No advanced PvE (tank class) required for PvPers beyond leveling to 80.

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The way that they are doing the new basic PvP gear is though a PvE instance to get PvP gear... which to me sounds stupid. Maybe they should do something like guild wars or something. Where you can create a high lvl guy and start PvP with him.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148997#post 148997

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Originally Posted by 'Nitro',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148989#post14 8989

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148780#p ost148780

"He who wins at PvE wins at PvP" - SDW '08

You need the DK (or Pal) for PvE, period. You need PvE to gear up your guys both in levels and gear to win at PvP. ... not all that complicated.

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PvE and PvP require different gearsets obtained by different means. No advanced PvE (tank class) required for PvPers beyond leveling to 80.

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The way that they are doing the new basic PvP gear is though a PvE instance to get PvP gear... which to me sounds stupid. Maybe they should do something like guild wars or something. Where you can create a high lvl guy and start PvP with him.

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You cannot gain PvP gear through BG/Arena grinding anymore?

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Originally Posted by 'Nitro',index.php?page=Thread&postID=149002#post14 9002

You cannot gain PvP gear through BG/Arena grinding anymore?

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I think you can but i think they are the equal to the blue honor gear. I think that this is a complete waste of time. They should make 3 parts of gear, PvE, BG, and Arena. Granted that BG and Arena can be the same, but somethings in BG and don't need as much probably, like a cast might not need as much stamina cause they can hind a little better in BG.

I hope that they make PvE arena... that would be some fun. But if they ever do this what will be the awards? Better PvE gear, if this happens hard core raiders will be pissed cause they have to work hard for there gear that they might get. But then it will not be fair to the non raiders that want to play cause then they will not have good enough gear to get onto teams.

Nitro: How long can you healer toon go with spamming chain heals? On trash is he generally dpsing or just healing the whole time? What water totems are you dropping (5 healing stream/mana stream or a combination of the both).

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Originally Posted by 'Schwarz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=149024#post 149024

Nitro: How long can you healer toon go with spamming chain heals? On trash is he generally dpsing or just healing the whole time? What water totems are you dropping (5 healing stream/mana stream or a combination of the both).

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I drop 2 healing totems and 3 mana totems. I typically only bind my Chain Heal to my Chain lightning lately so I can "attempt" to be a little more mana efficiant. I usually drink every 3 easy trash pulls or every 2 hard trash pulls (4+ mobs).

When I first started doing this (2 days ago was the first time i ever specced one of my shamans resto in 11ish months of playing them) I would just have CH bound to all my attacks so i would need to drink after every fight but I was loosing alot of xp per hour that way.

I havn't had my healer dpsing at all.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=149022#post 149022

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Nitro',index.php?page=Thread&postID=149002#post14 9002

You cannot gain PvP gear through BG/Arena grinding anymore?

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I think you can but i think they are the equal to the blue honor gear. I think that this is a complete waste of time. They should make 3 parts of gear, PvE, BG, and Arena. Granted that BG and Arena can be the same, but somethings in BG and don't need as much probably, like a cast might not need as much stamina cause they can hind a little better in BG.

I hope that they make PvE arena... that would be some fun. But if they ever do this what will be the awards? Better PvE gear, if this happens hard core raiders will be pissed cause they have to work hard for there gear that they might get. But then it will not be fair to the non raiders that want to play cause then they will not have good enough gear to get onto teams.

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Last I read they were going to do 3 tiers of PVP gear:

scrub express: no AR requirement, high honor cost + low AP cost
middle tier: low AR requirement (1600-1700), moderate honor cost + moderate AP cost
top tier: high AR requirement (1900-2200), no honor cost, high AP cost

Is this no longer the case? I was looking forward to not grinding out stupid amounts of honor every season