What is up with wrath plate stats

I was looking through gear lists on wowhead for drops, quest items and instance items and at least for the first few levels there is almost no prot pally gear that i can find. One nice breastplate in Howling Fjord is about it. All the plate seems to be +crit + haste +stam. No +defense, +dodge, +parry. In other words it looks like warrior gear mostly. I had heard a rumor that cruishing blows don't exist in wrath, so you don't need all the avoidance... maybe that is what this is about. But personally I like my pally being tough as nails with lots of blocks, parries and dodges and if I replaced all my curent plate items with what I am seeing I would not be a very good tank.

I have also noticed that ele shaman gear seems to be very haste and crit heavy also, with no +int. But I have not researched that shamen gear as thoroughly yet.

My team is nearing 67 and I was thinking of jumping to wrath at 68 and bang out all the starting quests and improve my gear a lot, then jump into the instance at 70. I assume that at 68 even with poorish gear a 5 man team can steamroll quests in both starting areas right?

You should check out all the blacksmithing gear. There are several sets you can make like spell power, melee dps, and tanking. I plan to outfit my tanks from mostly crafted gear.

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Originally Posted by 'wizofid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148035#post 148035

My team is nearing 67 and I was thinking of jumping to wrath at 68 and bang out all the starting quests and improve my gear a lot, then jump into the instance at 70. I assume that at 68 even with poorish gear a 5 man team can steamroll quests in both starting areas right?

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You can steamroll quests at 68 without a problem i bet, but the thing is that the new land is filled with people... that is why a lot of us boxers are just instant grinding for the first few lvls. I would say don't touch the new land quests until after the weekend. After the weekend most of the people will probably be out of the starting arena. But then again after the weekend might even start another wave, a wave of death knights. Sense they start at 55, people will probably have them at lvl 70 by the end of the weekend so now you have to compete against them, but i don't think those will be as bad.

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Originally Posted by 'Drakkun',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148036#post 148036

You should check out all the blacksmithing gear. There are several sets you can make like spell power, melee dps, and tanking. I plan to outfit my tanks from mostly crafted gear.

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My team is pretty new, only a few weeks and I have no professions on them. Do I have to be a blacksmith to use the crafted gear?

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148040#po st148040

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Originally Posted by 'wizofid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148035#post 148035

I was looking through gear lists on wowhead for drops, quest items and instance items and at least for the first few levels there is almost no prot pally gear that i can find.

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Go read the 3.0 patch notes again. You're missing a key point of the new 51 point talent trees.

Paladins USE WARRIOR GEAR NOW. Stamina = Spell Power. Blessing of Sanc = NO DONT NEED INT.

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I heard that pallies keep better agro with a dps weapon instead of a +spell damage weapon... is this true?

I am seeing a nice crafted defense set starting at 74:

http://www.wowhead.com/?search=tempered+saronite



Looks like I will just be able to buy them from crafters.

I've been questing like normal. It's easier for a boxer to quest for non-collection because of the rate at which you can kill. You're always ready to pull another mob should it respawn. And yes, the plate quest rewards are disappointing. Tons of stamina, though.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148041#post 148041

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148040#po st148040

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Originally Posted by 'wizofid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148035#post 148035

I was looking through gear lists on wowhead for drops, quest items and instance items and at least for the first few levels there is almost no prot pally gear that i can find.

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Go read the 3.0 patch notes again. You're missing a key point of the new 51 point talent trees.

Paladins USE WARRIOR GEAR NOW. Stamina = Spell Power. Blessing of Sanc = NO DONT NEED INT.

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I heard that pallies keep better agro with a dps weapon instead of a +spell damage weapon... is this true?

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I hear this is the case, but honestly, I don't see how our melee DPs really factors in to our threat generation, unless our tanking seals were modified to balance AP and Spell power to provide near equivalent benefits. Right now I'm in the spell power gladiator set, and I'm wondering why the hell I would start dropping spell power for Strength.

Now, granted, maybe this is what I SHOULD be doing, but I haven't sat down and looked at TPS generation for paladins since 3.0. If anyone wants to run the numbers, that would help.

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Originally Posted by 'Bigfish',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148052#post 148052

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148041#post 148041

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148040#po st148040

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Originally Posted by 'wizofid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148035#post 148035

I was looking through gear lists on wowhead for drops, quest items and instance items and at least for the first few levels there is almost no prot pally gear that i can find.

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Go read the 3.0 patch notes again. You're missing a key point of the new 51 point talent trees.

Paladins USE WARRIOR GEAR NOW. Stamina = Spell Power. Blessing of Sanc = NO DONT NEED INT.

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I heard that pallies keep better agro with a dps weapon instead of a +spell damage weapon... is this true?

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I hear this is the case, but honestly, I don't see how our melee DPs really factors in to our threat generation, unless our tanking seals were modified to balance AP and Spell power to provide near equivalent benefits. Right now I'm in the spell power gladiator set, and I'm wondering why the hell I would start dropping spell power for Strength.

Now, granted, maybe this is what I SHOULD be doing, but I haven't sat down and looked at TPS generation for paladins since 3.0. If anyone wants to run the numbers, that would help.

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It's all about that 51-point prot talent. The damage on that skill is absolutely monstrous with a hard-hitting weapon, and it's very mana efficient to use. The threat you gain from one hit on that thing with a nasty slow 1H makes up for any loss of spell damage.

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Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148057#pos t148057

It's all about that 51-point prot talent. The damage on that skill is absolutely monstrous with a hard-hitting weapon, and it's very mana efficient to use. The threat you gain from one hit on that thing with a nasty slow 1H makes up for any loss of spell damage.

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Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148057#pos t148057

It's all about that 51-point prot talent. The damage on that skill is absolutely monstrous with a hard-hitting weapon, and it's very mana efficient to use. The threat you gain from one hit on that thing with a nasty slow 1H makes up for any loss of spell damage.

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I can vouch for this. I've had 0 problems with holding aggro with this setup.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148041#post 148041

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148040#po st148040

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Originally Posted by 'wizofid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148035#post 148035

I was looking through gear lists on wowhead for drops, quest items and instance items and at least for the first few levels there is almost no prot pally gear that i can find.

---

Go read the 3.0 patch notes again. You're missing a key point of the new 51 point talent trees.

Paladins USE WARRIOR GEAR NOW. Stamina = Spell Power. Blessing of Sanc = NO DONT NEED INT.

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I heard that pallies keep better agro with a dps weapon instead of a +spell damage weapon... is this true?

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No, it isn't. In roughly equal gear, I've tested both Sun Eater and the LC exalted mace on heroic instance runs. They were almost identical in end results, though if you look at recount details of what did the damage, the attacks making up the proportions of damage just shift around.

If you have a clearly superior spellpower weapon, use it. Vice versa with an STR type weapon. A key factor in your decision may be if one or the other has +Defense on it (and you need it or not).

Future item (e.g. Wrath) will likely be far more focused on STR and the damage on the melee weapon than a spellpower weapon will. But as far as AGGRO goes, you can choose either.

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Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148057#pos t148057

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Originally Posted by 'Bigfish',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148052#post 148052

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148041#post 148041

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148040#po st148040

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Originally Posted by 'wizofid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148035#post 148035

I was looking through gear lists on wowhead for drops, quest items and instance items and at least for the first few levels there is almost no prot pally gear that i can find.

---

Go read the 3.0 patch notes again. You're missing a key point of the new 51 point talent trees.

Paladins USE WARRIOR GEAR NOW. Stamina = Spell Power. Blessing of Sanc = NO DONT NEED INT.

---

I heard that pallies keep better agro with a dps weapon instead of a +spell damage weapon... is this true?

---

I hear this is the case, but honestly, I don't see how our melee DPs really factors in to our threat generation, unless our tanking seals were modified to balance AP and Spell power to provide near equivalent benefits. Right now I'm in the spell power gladiator set, and I'm wondering why the hell I would start dropping spell power for Strength.

Now, granted, maybe this is what I SHOULD be doing, but I haven't sat down and looked at TPS generation for paladins since 3.0. If anyone wants to run the numbers, that would help.

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It's all about that 51-point prot talent. The damage on that skill is absolutely monstrous with a hard-hitting weapon, and it's very mana efficient to use. The threat you gain from one hit on that thing with a nasty slow 1H makes up for any loss of spell damage.

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really good to know... now i will look for better damage weapon then spell damage. Probably be seeing pallies using +stam to there weapon now instead of +spell

I'm using
Heartless
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33388

Picked it up last week in ZA, and thing is a monster. I've had absolutely 0 problems with maintaining aggro since I got it in 10 mans or boxing.

Yeah, don't worry about spell damage ... srsly. Don't even bother trying to get spell power gear unless you want a set for offspec. Str and Stamina ... and later defense. (If you're at 490 now, you'll be fine till 80, then you'll need another 100 defense to tank effectively in Heroics and Raids)

Hammer of the righteous turns the dps of your weapon to holy damage x4 on 3 mobs. use it every cooldown.

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Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148057#pos t148057

It's all about that 51-point prot talent. The damage on that skill is absolutely monstrous with a hard-hitting weapon, and it's very mana efficient to use. The threat you gain from one hit on that thing with a nasty slow 1H makes up for any loss of spell damage.

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It reads "four times your main hand damage per second"...why does a "nasty slow 1H" matter? It sounds like it should be independent of weapon speed.

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Originally Posted by 'algol',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148087#post14 8087

It reads "four times your main hand damage per second"...why does a "nasty slow 1H" matter? It sounds like it should be independent of weapon speed.

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usually 1h weapons hit harder.

Look at the blacksmithing gear, the new cobalt set that can be worn at lvl 70 is for tanks. IT has +str and stam and defense ratings, with the entire set you end up being almost uncrittable. And its all very easy to make just like 4 or 5 cobalt bars for each peice. Very good starting tanking set.

Attack power now scales with all of our abilities (or most anyways) at the same rate as spell power so yes we now use warrior gear. I recently switched from the Gavel of Unearthed Secrets to the King's Defender, dropped Seal of Righteousness for Vengeance and Retribution Aura for Devotion and have had no problems with threat.

In case you are wondering why the spell changes, Seal of Vengeance is applied to all 3 mobs you hit with Hammer of the Righteous and I switched Auras because I picked up Improved Devotion Aura.

Another reason Strength has become so important, and why Divine Strength was moved to the protection tree, is because it significantly affects your block value which will be very important when we get Shield of Righteousness.

Even with all this said, the plate gear still sucks in my opinion. Regardless of the changes, plate without defense or some avoidance stats just isn't tank gear to me. It appears more geared towards melee specs.

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Originally Posted by 'algol',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148087#post14 8087

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Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148057#pos t148057

It's all about that 51-point prot talent. The damage on that skill is absolutely monstrous with a hard-hitting weapon, and it's very mana efficient to use. The threat you gain from one hit on that thing with a nasty slow 1H makes up for any loss of spell damage.

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It reads "four times your main hand damage per second"...why does a "nasty slow 1H" matter? It sounds like it should be independent of weapon speed.

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if Hammer of the Righteous was our only attack then a nasty slow 1H will not matter.

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Originally Posted by 'elsegundo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148110#po st148110

if Hammer of the Righteous was our only attack then a nasty slow 1H will not matter.

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I love when it turns out that I'm not crazy. :D

most of the pali's spells scale with attack power and spell power so pick what ever gear gets yeh the most.

all the heal spells including holyshock need spell power.

prot pali picking up touched by the light increase yer spell power by 30% of yer stam so its a good idea to stack stam

retrib pali picking up sheath of light increase yer spell power by 30% of yer attack power so its a good idea to stack attack power

and holy pali picking up holy guidance increase yer spell power by 20% of yer int so its a good idea to stack int

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Originally Posted by 'algol',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148087#post14 8087

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Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148057#pos t148057

It's all about that 51-point prot talent. The damage on that skill is absolutely monstrous with a hard-hitting weapon, and it's very mana efficient to use. The threat you gain from one hit on that thing with a nasty slow 1H makes up for any loss of spell damage.

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It reads "four times your main hand damage per second"...why does a "nasty slow 1H" matter? It sounds like it should be independent of weapon speed.

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Oh you're right, I guess it's just the DPS, which spell damage weapons don't have. I know I was doing insane damage with a non-spell damage weapon.

Just for a test i put all the new equip i have get so far with the new quest on my Draenei Pally and he look like this: (without buffs)

HP: 9247

MP: 3933

Armor : 13053

DEF: 376

Dodge: 12.33%

Parry: 11.19%

Block: 6.04%

Resilence: 0

DMG: 288-372

Power: 1194

Hit: 49

Crit: 22.17%

Expertise: 22

With that i only can see wipes on Instances lol. The way i play from 60-70 was having my pally like some kind of punching bag and what really matter is my shammys DPS. Guess i will keep my old armor but i hope to find better prot armor on the other instance or maybe i will need to make a dedicated healer bc at 75 my old armor or new ret armor will not keep me alive :(

Crushing Blows do exist still, but are only received from mobs who exceed your level by 4 or more levels.
Given a raid boss is considered to be 3 levels higher then the level cap, once you're 80th you'll never receive a Crushing Blow.

This is part of the changes to make all tanks viable for all raid encounters, despite a lack of Block or Parry.
You still want enough defense to be crit immune, but once you are, you're also crushing blow immune.

All tanks are going to need to work on Defense at 80, the amount needed for crit immune goes from 490 at 70 to 590 at 80. The formula hasn't changed, just the level factor of the equation. Something to consider as you prioritize gear later on.

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Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148057#pos t148057

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Originally Posted by 'Bigfish',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148052#post 148052

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148041#post 148041

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148040#po st148040

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Originally Posted by 'wizofid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=148035#post 148035

I was looking through gear lists on wowhead for drops, quest items and instance items and at least for the first few levels there is almost no prot pally gear that i can find.

---

Go read the 3.0 patch notes again. You're missing a key point of the new 51 point talent trees.

Paladins USE WARRIOR GEAR NOW. Stamina = Spell Power. Blessing of Sanc = NO DONT NEED INT.

---

I heard that pallies keep better agro with a dps weapon instead of a +spell damage weapon... is this true?

---

I hear this is the case, but honestly, I don't see how our melee DPs really factors in to our threat generation, unless our tanking seals were modified to balance AP and Spell power to provide near equivalent benefits. Right now I'm in the spell power gladiator set, and I'm wondering why the hell I would start dropping spell power for Strength.

Now, granted, maybe this is what I SHOULD be doing, but I haven't sat down and looked at TPS generation for paladins since 3.0. If anyone wants to run the numbers, that would help.

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It's all about that 51-point prot talent. The damage on that skill is absolutely monstrous with a hard-hitting weapon, and it's very mana efficient to use. The threat you gain from one hit on that thing with a nasty slow 1H makes up for any loss of spell damage.

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I know zip about Pallies, just wanted to give a fellow Kate fan a nod. :) (Just saw your team names)