Printable View
I was personally wondering why raidboxers were leveling shamans.
It seems to me that if you had a relatively (to us mere 5 boxing mortals), large number of characters, you would want to go with some combination of mages/priests?
Surely 35 priests spamming holy nova would make short work of anything?
wow i see your just over 4000 now, gz.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137459#po st137459
i think the overall dps insanity as opposed to having a meat sheild with normal dps and healers
makes it quicker then say your guild kara run
and i dont think a tank could hold aggro
mayb a pally...
ok re: mail
Who cares?
35 holy novas will kill everything in 10 yards, heal you for at least 5k (every priest) every 1.5 seconds.
35 Reflective shields would make AOEing you pretty amusing.
Priests are equally ranged, and while you might lose some long distance CL killing power, 35 SWPs are going to kill anybody - while you move every GCD.
Same for MBS/SWDs
Pain supression
Penance...
Fear ward...
I mean if you really wanted you could throw in a shaman in each group for tremors/groundings/thunderstorm rotation...
36 magma totems/36 nova totems/36 fire elementals and 36 thunderstorms > mage priest aoe with that many characters
Grounding and tremor for every group
Just imagine the insanity of target random on 36 characters + chain lightning, not like you would really need to very often when your totems and thunderstorm will just auto kill everything though
Hope the guy makes some city raid videos, because i'm sure they will be incredible to watch
Ya I guess thunderstorm/raidwide healing/mana streams might really give them the edge in larger scale stuff.
Normal guild kara run, 1 maybe 2 shamans - 2-2.5 hours
4 shaman kara run, every totem available - cleared to aran in just over an hour. Raid makeup: 1 Tank (warrior), 4 shaman (ele), Pali (holy), Druid (feral), Rogue, Warlock, Hunter
Didn't finish the run because it was late and the tank had to leave. All bosses dropped in no more than 1.5 minutes. Shamans just put out more dps and all around buffs than most classes as a whole. I was also able to off heal when needed. Mobs just died too fast most of the time, and the Pali just sat around and sometimes dps'd. I plan on trying my full team this week with 2 healers.
35 Enhancement Shaman = 70 Spirit Wolves
Are healing/mana stream totems raid wide? I don't think I've noticed mana stream on the entire raid, just my group.. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I do know it pulses.. But my friend told me when he was in another group that he was not getting ticks off healing stream? @_@
Honestly I'm not sure, there were mentions of one or the other stacking at minimum I think.
I'd log in now and test it but servers are down ;/
yeah they definitely stack, and I was really happy about that.. But I'm not sure about it being raid wide.. Having 5x constant mana stream is a little overpowered raid wide..
Healing stream still stacks (tested last night). Mana is supposed to stack, but I didn't really delve too deeply into testing it, since I didn't really mess with my scrolling combat text to show mana.
And on the class make up, you can't beat 5 shaman for instant damage output. I know that particular composition is the most popular, but that is the reason. Insane instant damage (pve and pvp, you can't imagine the 'lols' I get when I one shot somebody in AV). Even as mediocre geared as my team is, I still put out respectable damage. Five fire nova totems kill any group where AoE is needed in an instance, 5 grounding totems means no spell will touch you while you burn a group down, and 5 tremors mean any fear lasts less than a second. That's not to mention the 5 tanks-on-a-stick and 2 minutes later 5 fire elementals. I'm slowly getting geared, and have no problem with same-level pulls in instances.
I can confirm mana spring stacking in 5 mans, haven't tested across raid groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Siaea',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137549#post13 7549
All water totems, grounding totem, and tremor totem are party only
Oh nice, maybe I can beat the horseman now. I get to the 3rd phase and am completely OOM. I've been using 4 healing and 1 mana, so I'll try again tonite. Damn you full workday!Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Svpernova09',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137560# post137560
yeah I was popping mana pots by the 3rd transition with my 3 shaman on him, I never failed to down him, just had some close calls between dpsing him, and healing my druid tanking him.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Siaea',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137569#post13 7569
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137459#po st137459
This is exactly it! Totems to lag out the PvPers! :) 4 times 32 totems (128) would surely slow down the other side in PvP combat in many different ways. For PvE, the totems would also help but in PvP, the totems help to slow down the other sides targetting as well as lag em out!
Lagtrap.. I likeQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Prepared',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137628#pos t137628
Latest Blue notes show they are looking into Elemental Shamans AoE capability and planning on buffing it majorly , woo woo :)
Mana spring/healing stream are not raid wide. They stack, but for group play only. Imagine 25 x healing stream or mana spring totems, lol ;-)
The original poster was asking about raid groups being composed of all shaman. While I can't speak on behalf of Sam or Prepared, I can tell you that there are virtually no bosses (especially in WOTLK) that you can steamroll by simply bringing 25 of x-class to a "raid"; some people are even questoning the viability of the 5-man shaman setup for WoTLK, especially with the pure damage that NPC warrior/paladin types are issuing in instances.
Personally, I run ten characters: 4 shaman, 2 paladins, a priest, a druid, and two mages. The mixed classes really make a difference when it comes to end-game content, as encounters are specifically designed around you bringing N-number of certain class types to a raid. Besides, if every/any T5+ instance could be steamrolled by having all of one (especially caster based, in the case of shaman) class, hardcore players could get through the entire expansion (less attunement time) within weeks, probably not more than 6 weeks at best.
Also, besides being uber fun and awesome; outside of winterspring, and as someone has pointed out - outside of a city raid, there's not a lot of content where you can bring 30+ characters into, unless you're looking at the 40 mans, which you can do now with 1 group (max 2 groups) of decently equipped characters.
Personally, when I rolled my shammies it was because I'd already had a shammy. In fact, my "main" was constantly respeccing between Elemental and Resto.
Another reason why I chose shammies is their relatively simple dps rotation. In a raid, you've got too much to micromanage without having to worry about a complex rotation.
Lastly, totem stacking (particularly grounding totem). It trivializes fights like Maiden which would be incredibly hard to heal otherwise. A simple grounding totem can mitigate tons of damage without much micromanagement.
And, since I had an extra spot (1 main shaman, already 70; 4 elemental shaman) in my leveling group, I wanted a tank. I had started out with a gnome warrior (she's the one in my RFK and SM video) but had a prot paladin sitting at 40. After much debate, since I was doing fine with the warrior -- I decided to level onwards (see RFD video and later) with a prot paladin. The prot paladin had more synergy with the shaman -- BoW/Salv for the shammies, and the pally benefits from both melee and spellcaster totems.
When I was around level 40ish, Ellay proved that 4 shaman could be amazing arena PvPers as well. And, well... the rest is history.
LOL Vyndree, I swear I'm not following you around posting right after you do... :) You just happen to post in threads just before I see them.
My favorite was a lock for a long time...then I got a priest to 70 and had her follow my lock. It was a great thing. My priest was raiding for a few months and I had a blast. I'd farm gold with dailies on my priest and lock to fund my priests never ending potion and consumable needs. Got epic flying on both and drakes, etc. Then the raiding guild fell apart and I wasn't happy with the merge that happened so I quit. I saw a posting at wowinsider about Vyndree and Suvega doing Kara and that's how I found this dual-boxing site.
I set up 3 trial accounts, bought keyclone and after my first 5x shadow bolts in the starter area I was hooked. I noticed almost everyone had shaman teams or a large number of shaman in their teams. My wife and I would always have playful arguments about which class was better, me being a lock and her being a ele shaman. I started 5 shaman...never looked back. They are highly resilient in both pve and pvp and have nice burst damage. I was always affliction on my lock and it's a night and day difference at the dps difference. Don't get me wrong my lock is quite capable at killing but the mechanic is slow,life draining kills over time where shaman just go BAM and things die.
Then the totem choices available, they're like an army of little pets ready to be called to your aid if you need something extra in the middle of a fight. Getting poisoned? No problem, just drop a posion cleansing totem to replace a tremor or stoneclaw totem.
Healing...this past weekend I ran 3 heroics with my prot warrior friend. He's pretty well geared and I'd just heal him once he got halfway in health with 4x lesser healing waves, quick heal and he was full health.
I'm definitely an Ele Shaman convert for boxing, but my holy priest will always be my favorite single toon.
Hopefully this is intended behavior. I'm running the Horseman as well and 5x mana spring totems are incredible. That's 100 mana per 2 seconds or 250 mp/5 WHILE CASTING. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137572#po st137572
I'm sure it's intended behavior.. I just think that if it was applied raid wide, it would not be.
Chain Heal automatically seeks out the lowest hp, the one who needs it the most, eliminating a ton of healing targeting.
Chain Lightnight lets you get more bang for your buck by not over killing to much.
With those two spells there is very little else to think about.
Although some were critical of my long time spent theory crafting and not playing as it turns out 25 Shaman and 1 Paliden is about as perfect as you can get.
Bosses that can be downed with 25 of X class: kazzak, doomwalker (or whatever his name), Gruul, Magtheridon, all of kara, half-most of ZA, lurker, hydross, morogrim tidewalker, probably fathom lord K, Void Reaver, Supremus, Akama, rage winterchill, 2nd boss of mount hyjal, teron gorefiend.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Rin',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137646#post1376 46
I'm thinking of 25 pallies for those bosses. prot, ret and holy, all 3 specs are awesome. Druids can also perform just as well for most of them, but lack dispels for some fights and bubble. If you want, I'll go into why each one is possible. But that is a little more than "virtually no[ne]." Think outside the box more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137459#po st137459
I keep saying that on the wow forums. All the qq posts usually end up about how shaman stacking/synergy is overpowered yet they still cry about multiboxing itself!
They're also giving all classes a healing spell and the ability to tank. In a later patch they're also merging all the classes into one. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137637#post13 7637
:(
Yea, warriors will get 'Healing Shout" and th rogue ability CoBS will now also act like a 'Lay on Hands,' the remainder of their energy will be drained for a heal equal to their max hp.
PS: They are also giving pallies a new bubble which makes them immune to magic damage but not physical. And just like BoP, it doesn't share a cd with the hearth bubble.
Have you seen this ACTUALLY done? With which classes? With what kind of gear (i.e. do you expect each of the 25 to be wearing sunwell level gear?)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'valkry',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137943#post1 37943
What about gruul's ground slams? Netherspite's beams? Mag's box clicking? Lurker's knockback? Hydross's nature resist (for ele shammies)? Dodging void's orbs (keeping in mind that they silence)? Supremus's random targeting? Teron's ghosts?
Of course, I'm under the impression we're talking about at least 5 5-boxers or more (2.5 10-boxers? 1 25-boxer?)
I assume 25 paladins could take down a raid boss ;)
Seeing as they can out-tank, out-heal, and out-dps ...well, everybody... right now? I would hope so. Theoretically it's getting fixed. Now if they can "fix" it by making shamans more powerful, I think no one around here would complain too loudly...Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Tasty',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137981#post13 7981
If you ASSUME, you make an ASS out of U and ME. No where did I say it involved boxing, the claim was "virtually no bosses" can be downed by 25 of X class, I simply gave examples of which bosses I feel can be. And no, you do not need sunwell gear, those bosses are laughable in terms of difficulty. Now for the wall of text...Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137973#post 137973
kazzak - Ezmode, just tank, spank and don't die lol. 25 pallies or druids could do this. If you need sunwell gear to do this fight, please join a new guild and stop getting carried.
Doomwalker - Same as above, just heal through dmg, tank and spank. Don't die.
Gruul - does not include HKM. Groound slams...well, that's why you spread out. 25 pallies would be hard because they are all melee, but you know, there is this mod right, which shows a timer for his ground slams yea, which you can put in a very visible location on your screen right, so you can move the fuk away. 25 druid, 2 bears, 6-7 resto druids, a few cats, rest = boomkins.
Mag - 5 bears, 5 boomkins (clicking cubes), 6 trees, rest can be whatever. Same can be done with pallies, it's not a dps race, have some holy, 3 prot, rest can be ret. have your cube clickers organised. Same as with gruul, DBM shows a timer for when he is about to cast blast wave. It's not hard to dps until 7 seconds til blast wave then move over to the cube.
Lurker - Druids or pallies. Druids can all be ranged dps bar the tank, no need to worry about knockback. Even if you have melee dps, knockback is laughable, wait for a heal, more forward and start dpsing again. Have 3 bears ready for tanking when he dives and 3 ranged dps on each platform.
Hydross - nat resist can be achieved by prot pallies. No problem. Adds can be aoe tanked (dont even need resist for those since the nerf ages ago).
Void reaver - apart from running sideways to avoid this huge ball of electricity, you can also camp at his feet and just heal through the groundings. (This boss I feel can be 25 boxed with 3 prot pallies, some healers and rest ele shammies.
Tidewalker - 2 prot pallies, 6-7 holy, rest ret. AoE is no problem, neither is healing. Nothing really too hard about this boss. 25 druids would also be able to do this.
Kara - I don't need to say anything, it's already been done. Go to youtube, 10 druid kara, 10 pally kara.
ZA - Eagle boss is tank/spank/run in. bear boss is dual tank/spank. Dragonhawk boss is tank/spank/deal with adds/avoid fire bombs. Zul'jin can be done with pallies because they can dispel themselves, and can autoswing dps the phase where spells cause dmg.
Supremus - Phase 1 = tank/spank, when nearly Phase 2, run away, avoid fire, easy.
teron - when you become a ghost, kill the constructs, easy. pallies can dispel, druids can aoe heal massively.
rage winterchill - yawn, heal frostbolt targets, dps, run out of disease cloud.
2nd boss of mount hyjal - 1 tanks boss, 1 tanks infernals, heal, dps, infernal healer stay away from boss to avoid carrion swarm.
I had already said that they can be done with either pallies or druids for most bosses. Shammies can't tank most end-game bosses (they can tank kara, go to youtube). Wouldn't surprise me if a shammy tanked VR though, really wouldn't.
I said in another thread that there are 2x25 man bosses I felt could be solod with a 25 boxer, one of them is VR, the other is rage winterchill. VR, camp at feet, heal/tank/spank. Rage, just strafe to avoid disease, click heal frostbolt targets, take your few raid deaths and your loot :)
PS: If you can't camp at the feet of VR because he will then start spamming orbs in melee range (I dont think he will though because there is a minimum range), you can set up 3 resto druids to strafe in a circle around VR (lock down strafe and a slow turn on a seperate keyboard or keybinding) so that th orbs will always fire at them, but due to constant movement will never hit.
I recall a certain vid of a bunch of frost mages lolling it up on Rag back in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'valkry',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137996#post1 37996
yea, 1 min 34 seconds downing him. But wasn't a mage tanking nor a mage healing. All druids can down rag though :) Even all pallies, just have to run out every once in a while though lol.
"A pally can down any boss solo: they bubble-hearth and declare Mission Accomplished."
Or something like that.
Yup, totally agree. :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by 'algol',index.php?page=Thread&postID=138002#post13 8002
Actually, the title of the thread is "RaidBOXERS, why shamans?" -- hence my impression that they were asking for theorycraft/experiences of raiding MULTIBOXERS. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'valkry',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137996#post1 37996
Furthermore, the prefix and postfix of the "claim" is...
So forgive me if my IMPRESSION (nowhere did I say assumption, but the mockery was cute -- I wasn't aware that my post came off as hostile, only argumentative -- we ARE having a discussion, are we not?) was incorrect, but imo it was pretty realistic given the context and the quote to think that way. I'd also generally assume (yes, assume) that anything on a multiboxing forum that isn't in "off-topic" should probably have to do with multiboxers?Quote:
While I can't speak on behalf of Sam or Prepared, I can tell you that there are virtually no bosses (especially in WOTLK) that you can steamroll by simply bringing 25 of x-class to a "raid"; some people are even questoning the viability of the 5-man shaman setup for WoTLK, especially with the pure damage that NPC warrior/paladin types are issuing in instances.
I didn't disagree on the fact that single-class soloboxers can accomplish these things -- 10 druids have completed Karazhan LONG before the patch. 10 paladins as well. Hybrids (with tanking and healing specs) tend to do the best when they don't actually outgear the instances. But I was under the impression that we were talking about multiboxers -- in which case any fight involving complex movement or immediate reactions would likely fail.
It may have started out that way, but threads derail. Some were talking about raid boxing, but I was not talking about boxing bosses with 25 of X class, I was talking about downing bosses with 25 of X class.
He should have said "the are virtually no 25 man raid bosses that can be downed by only boxers" instead of what he said. Also, Sam and prepared are not just shammies, Sam has a Pally, prepared has other classes too. Hence "25 of X class" is not entirely true for them.
PS: Whilst the prefix and postfix may have been about boxers, I didn't quote those...for a reason, I was only talking about what i quoted. Nothing more. yes I took it out of context a little. But that quote was a bit of a deviation, and proving that some bosses can be downed by 25 of x class is just a short step away from being able to prove that a boxer can. My belief of VR and RW being boxable still stand. One day I might even try it.
PPS: That little bit of text is interesting. The thread was aksing "why all shammies?" Like why all of one class, why not have different ones?
Reworded...I can't tell you why Sam and Prepared chose all shammies, but there are like no 25 man raid bosses that can be downed by using just one class, hell, even using a 5 shammy team for instances is becoming questionable...Quote:
While I can't speak on behalf of Sam or Prepared, I can tell you that there are virtually no bosses (especially in WOTLK) that you can steamroll by simply bringing 25 of x-class to a "raid"; some people are even questoning the viability of the 5-man shaman setup for WoTLK, especially with the pure damage that NPC warrior/paladin types are issuing in instances.
This has veered off to talking about group composition more-so than boxing, hence I answered it the way i did.
The bosses I listed can be downed by using just a single class.
PPPS: When I reply to a quote, I only talk about the quote. Nothing more. I don't talk about what came before or after the quote, only the quote, it's why I singled it out instead of the whole post. It's...propper.
I didn't say they were. Sam & Prepared are RAIDboxers, in that they both box enough characters that they must "convert to raid" in order to even have them in the same group.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'valkry',index.php?page=Thread&postID=138048#post1 38048
The semicolon is a delimiter -- on a seperate note, people are panicking about the reduced efficiency of shaman stacking.
They are two seperate issues that are mildly related.
My translation: Since Sam and Prepared are the only ones with enough numbers to make this theorycraft possible (and who have not yet had the experience of firsthand knowledge yet), I don't believe bosses (especially in WOTLK) can be brute-forced by 25 multiboxed characters.Quote:
While I can't speak on behalf of Sam or Prepared, I can tell you that there are virtually no bosses (especially in WOTLK) that you can steamroll by simply bringing 25 of x-class to a "raid";
My translation: Furthermore, 5-shaman groups are not as viable in wrath as they were in burning crusade. (which would therefore imply that Sam and Prepared's 25 man groups which are largely composed of shaman would be more successful in BC -- prepatch -- than they would in wrath -- postpatch -- thanks to shaman stacking)Quote:
some people are even questoning the viability of the 5-man shaman setup for WoTLK, especially with the pure damage that NPC warrior/paladin types are issuing in instances.
As it appears to me, Rin was speaking in the context of multiboxing. Without that context, the phrase you bolded might not have been his opinion. He talks about Sam and Prepared, a common multiboxing comp (5x shaman), and further goes on to talk about his personal multiboxing comp. Therefore, the context of "I can tell you that there are virtually no bosses (especially in WOTLK) that you can steamroll by simply bringing 25 of x-class to a "raid"" looked like, to me, a comment made regarding a MULTIBOX'ed raid. You quoted the entire text -- without the additional context I could see why you would consider it to be an incorrect statement -- but I responded the way I did because you told him to "think outside the box" and I felt his observation was perfectly reasonable. You can't just focus on a partial quote, without context, and draw conclusions about what a person's opinion is -- I'd imagine Rin's opinion outside of multiboxing would be far different than his opinion considering multiboxing.
That's my interpretation of the post. It doesn't match yours and that's fine -- I'm just giving reason why I gave my response and why I feel that my response was nonthreatening (though you still seem to think otherwise).
P.S. You quoted the entire post, including the phrase above, in a thread about multiboxing and raids. ;)
For clarity, you quoted this exactly (note that highlighting a sub-portion of a quote does not a single quote make):
...when you meant to quote this...Quote:
Mana spring/healing stream are not raid wide. They stack, but for group play only. Imagine 25 x healing stream or mana spring totems, lol ;-)
The original poster was asking about raid groups being composed of all shaman. While I can't speak on behalf of Sam or Prepared, I can tell you that there are virtually no bosses (especially in WOTLK) that you can steamroll by simply bringing 25 of x-class to a "raid"; some people are even questoning the viability of the 5-man shaman setup for WoTLK, especially with the pure damage that NPC warrior/paladin types are issuing in instances.
Personally, I run ten characters: 4 shaman, 2 paladins, a priest, a druid, and two mages. The mixed classes really make a difference when it comes to end-game content, as encounters are specifically designed around you bringing N-number of certain class types to a raid. Besides, if every/any T5+ instance could be steamrolled by having all of one (especially caster based, in the case of shaman) class, hardcore players could get through the entire expansion (less attunement time) within weeks, probably not more than 6 weeks at best.
Also, besides being uber fun and awesome; outside of winterspring, and as someone has pointed out - outside of a city raid, there's not a lot of content where you can bring 30+ characters into, unless you're looking at the 40 mans, which you can do now with 1 group (max 2 groups) of decently equipped characters.
Now, the first quote (the one you actually did) includes the context. The second quote puts words into Rin's mouth that I'm not sure he meant to say, because it's only a subset of a sentence. A subset of a sentence without the context around it, and of which you judged Rin for being close-minded. Was he really close-minded? Not according to context.Quote:
I can tell you that there are virtually no bosses (especially in WOTLK) that you can steamroll by simply bringing 25 of x-class to a "raid";
Now I'm fine with the fact that either I misunderstood you or you misunderstood the thread, but the hostility in your response and your not-so-subtle way of calling me an ass (particularly because I was unaware that I was doing something that warranted such a remark) is what's causing me to be incredibly clear about WHY I misunderstood you or you misunderstood the thread. There's no need to continue on about it. We know. There was a disjunct. It's done. It's clear. I know. You know. I still don't understand why you insist on being hostile, nor do I care to know why -- Can you simply please stop needling? I'm willing to drop the issue since it's no longer an issue.