Any issues with 5 Shammies after patch/expansion?

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10-06-2008, 06:57 AM
wizofid

Any issues with 5 Shammies after patch/expansion?

I have heard that one of the things that is great about 5 shammies is that some of the things stack... Totem of Wrath for one. But my understanding is that after the patch they are changing a lot of things, including changing totem of wrath to a simple +spell power buff with no +hit. I am not even sure if that totem will stack anymore. Does anyone know about this or other changes that may impact the viability of a 5x shaman team?

For example this would mean no more rotation on 5 Heroisms:

Quote:

Finally, we have modified Heroism and Bloodlust to affect the entire raid. However, all affected raid members will be unable to cast or benefit from Bloodlust/Heroism for 5 minutes.

and

Bloodlust: Cannot be recast while caster has Sated debuff, and those with Sated debuff cannot be affected by it.
10-06-2008, 08:35 AM
Fuzzyboy

RE: Any issues with 5 Shammies after patch/expansion?

[quote='wizofid',index.php?page=Thread&postID=13070 9#post130709]I have heard that one of the things that is great about 5 shammies is that some of the things stack... Totem of Wrath for one. But my understanding is that after the patch they are changing a lot of things, including changing totem of wrath to a simple +spell power buff with no +hit. I am not even sure if that totem will stack anymore. Does anyone know about this or other changes that may impact the viability of a 5x shaman team?
[/quote]The topic has been covered several times, but to recap: ToW won't stack and it isn't really a nerf as far as crit vs. spelldamage (see [url='http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=128258']ToW math[/url] ), untill you hit 2100ish spelldamage. And that isn't even including the 3% crit debuff. As for the +hit part, remember that the hitcap that is usually discussed relates mostly to boss-level (73) mobs, which you'll rarely be facing as a 5-man team.

As for back-to-back heroism, ask yourself how often you really need it? Not once have I needed to cast heroism back-to-back to down a boss.

The most significant impact, as far as wotlk-reports go, is the tanking viability of elementals, which hopefully will be fixed. The bigger problem is the coefficient-nerf on lightning, but that can be countered by adding a lock or a druid to your team (CoE or Earth and Moon).
10-06-2008, 09:30 AM
magwo

No back-to-back heroism is a big nerf to 5v5 shaman teams. Any priest with a tiny amount of skill will mass-dispel heroisms, which is why it needs to be recast several times. I would hope that blizzard implements this so that:

1. Another heroism can not overwrite a currently active heroism buff.
2. Only when heroism effect expires after its full duration do you gain the debuff that prevents the effect to be repeated.
10-06-2008, 09:52 AM
Schwarz

Quote:

The most significant impact, as far as wotlk-reports go, is the tanking viability of elementals,

I think the problem with this was that they didn't get scaled to level 80. And I think they changed that. I thought I remember someone posting that they cleared a heroic with 5 shaman on the PTR.

I 100% think that all these changes are buffs not nerfs. We might have to practice kiting a little bit but it should be fairly easy with our knock back spell and fire nova totem slowing down movement speeds.
10-06-2008, 10:08 AM
suprafro

5x Thunderstorm and 5x Hex just seems like it will make heroic trash completly ezmode
10-06-2008, 01:55 PM
Rowdysattva

nerf to lightning really hurts. there are reports on the boards of ele shaman doing less dps in heroic raids than the prot tank. that is not a five box situation but the dps of one shaman effects the dps of five shaman. i don't want to have to add a lock or a druid to the mix to get the damage up. i want them to address the damage issue with the shaman directly. this effects solo play as well. i am really wondering if balance druid will have greater dps than shaman come xpac.
10-06-2008, 02:04 PM
Fuzzyboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Schwarz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=130770#post 130770

Quote:

The most significant impact, as far as wotlk-reports go, is the tanking viability of elementals,

I think the problem with this was that they didn't get scaled to level 80. And I think they changed that. I thought I remember someone posting that they cleared a heroic with 5 shaman on the PTR.

I 100% think that all these changes are buffs not nerfs. We might have to practice kiting a little bit but it should be fairly easy with our knock back spell and fire nova totem slowing down movement speeds.

Yeah, something about the elementals still being lvl 70. I don't know if it has been fixed yet, but I'm pretty sure it will be :-)
10-06-2008, 02:05 PM
Fuzzyboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=130766#post13 0766

No back-to-back heroism is a big nerf to 5v5 shaman teams. Any priest with a tiny amount of skill will mass-dispel heroisms, which is why it needs to be recast several times. I would hope that blizzard implements this so that:

1. Another heroism can not overwrite a currently active heroism buff.
2. Only when heroism effect expires after its full duration do you gain the debuff that prevents the effect to be repeated.

I was thinking in PvE terms - I guess I should have mentioned that :-)

Btw, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the ToW change be a buff for PvP since res takes into account only crit and not spelldamage?
10-06-2008, 02:19 PM
Fuzzyboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'suprafro',index.php?page=Thread&postID=130777#pos t130777

5x Thunderstorm and 5x Hex just seems like it will make heroic trash completly ezmode

Yeah, if they somehow fix the coeff, and make the elemental able to tank bosses heroics should be very doable :-)
10-06-2008, 02:25 PM
Fuzzyboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Rowdysattva',index.php?page=Thread&postID=130873# post130873

nerf to lightning really hurts. there are reports on the boards of ele shaman doing less dps in heroic raids than the prot tank. that is not a five box situation but the dps of one shaman effects the dps of five shaman. i don't want to have to add a lock or a druid to the mix to get the damage up. i want them to address the damage issue with the shaman directly. this effects solo play as well. i am really wondering if balance druid will have greater dps than shaman come xpac.

I think I read a blue quote stating that they nerfed the coeff because of the druid/lock debuff now included nature damage and that shaman would be too high on raid dps if they didn't. But it does suck royally for solo/party play, but again, it's only beta and they are currently looking at a fix although I don't know about ETA and what kind of fix.
10-06-2008, 03:58 PM
Aethon

No issues, everything working as intended.

We even get a few nice buffs/ablilty to take advantage of other buffs now.
10-06-2008, 05:51 PM
puppychow

I thought PVE mobs ignore resilience now? A big reason people fly through heroics is that they can get welfare gear (s1/s2), get some pretty decent spell damage and HP/armor, and 4 or 5 shaman the heroics. How many people have fun in heroics if they are in quest-only gear?

I think as a general rule multiboxing will be fine, especially since they have tuned down heroics a little (although I am sure there is going to be a few heroics which are very hard), but I do get the feeling you will have a much harder time running them without a dedicated tank, at least the 2 instances I've run on the premade 80 server in beta. Stuff just hits very hard.
10-06-2008, 06:14 PM
Xyl41

The mobs do hit rather hard it seems. Multi-boxing will be at a bit of a disadvantage until the first epic set goes to no rating requirement (or those that get it early on). This is because of the amount of stamina difference between a premade paladin (22k hp) vs a premade shaman (16k hp). The mobs in heroic Halls of Lightning were hitting me for ~3k a hit, but they are only groups of 4-5 mobs. This will easily be dealt with using Hex properly.
10-06-2008, 06:38 PM
thinus

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=130766#post13 0766

1. Another heroism can not overwrite a currently active heroism buff.
2. Only when heroism effect expires after its full duration do you gain the debuff that prevents the effect to be repeated.

I am pretty sure all debuffs trigger as soon as you cast the spell, PW: S, etc. I don't think they will be changing the mechanic. If your Bloodlust is dispelled tough titties.
10-06-2008, 09:35 PM
valkry

Bit pointless having a 10 min cd spell if it just gets dispelled every single time you cast it giving you no advanatage from it. So with the new limitations on it, blizzard should give it some protection, like not having it classed as a magic buff, but more like an enrage or something like Beastial Wrath.
10-06-2008, 09:48 PM
Schwarz

[quote='puppychow',index.php?page=Thread&postID=130 962#post130962] How many people have fun in heroics if they are in quest-only gear?
[/quote]When I first dinged 70 I was doing heroics in quest only gear. I didn't even think about picking up the "seer's" set b/c it didn't have as much spell damage as my quest gear.

I go back to my orginal thought you can always kite them. Watch some of these videos
[url='%20http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=gndEMVnGeMc']
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=gndEMVnGeMc[/url]

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=91AT88ql8j4
10-06-2008, 09:52 PM
valkry

Hmm, the new ToW, can be good, can be bad. Good for raids because the whole rid can benefit from the crit buff if it is in range of the boss, but if it isn't no one will benefit.