New GCD Changes

Button mashing a spell even though it doesn't cast because of (not ready yet, not even rage, not enough energy, etc) will trigger a GCD. Drastically effecting chaining spells together (mashing mortal strike so you trigger it as the cooldown occurs, arcane explosion spamming will actually have delays betwene explosions if you press the keys to fast, prayer of healing.

http://www.wowinsider.com/2007/11/05/dont-mash-in-2-3/

I wonder if this means the world is going to move to hardware macroing tools and there will be a backlash crackdown on people that server up multiple perfectly timed spells.

Ick that makes things a bit harder... especially as you get desynced spamming IAE due to stuns, etc.

I guess we'll see how this one pans out on live.

If you thought Thaddius was bad....

What happens if you click it and you are out of casting but you lag and are not actually? Forget trying to time spells. This is going to be a nightmare with constantly shifting latency times.

it is intended as an improvement... to replace the endemic /stopcasting in macros... but we will have to see how it plays out.

Consider if you mash 1 button, there is a good chance that at LEAST 1 guys is going to be desynched..... it might be an issue.

I will refrain from jumping to conclusions here though.

I think this is a simple misreading of the patchnotes (this is common with Blizzard).

This is a good thing, not bad, for button mashers.

Basically it's the same as a /stopcasting macro for latency but with no stopcasting. It will send the signal to cast to the server no matter what your client says is going on.

Yes your GCD will trigger when you press the button to early. But it will get to the server and if the server says you you can't cast yet it will come back to you and cancel the early GCD. So the unused GCD will be twice your latency.

But if you hit the button while the unused GCD is active it will send another message to the server until the server says there is no cast and no GCD so button mash away my friends. Button mash away.

What this may do is melt there servers as their I/Os go through the roof.

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Originally Posted by Gallo

I think this is a simple misreading of the patchnotes (this is common with Blizzard).

This is a good thing, not bad, for button mashers.

Basically it's the same as a /stopcasting macro for latency but with no stopcasting. It will send the signal to cast to the server no matter what your client says is going on.

Yes your GCD will trigger when you press the button to early. But it will get to the server and if the server says you you can't cast yet it will come back to you and cancel the early GCD. So the unused GCD will be twice your latency.

But if you hit the button while the unused GCD is active it will send another message to the server until the server says there is no cast and no GCD so button mash away my friends. Button mash away.

What this may do is melt there servers as their I/Os go through the roof.

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As someone who lives outside the US (Australia) but has to play on US servers, this is bad bad bad!
The 'spell not ready yet', 'item not ready yet',' 'need more rage', 'need more energy', 'cannot do that yet' will all trigger the GCD, and I will have to wait for the server to confirm that there is no GCD - twice my latency, which is about 400ms. Double that is 800ms, close to 1 sec where I can't do jack.

I'm sure Blizz mean this as a fix, but how does that old saying go - "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Cheers,
Stealthy

People are crying wolf with no facts imo.

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Originally Posted by 2.3 Patch Notes

Client spell cast requests are now sent to the server even if your player is already casting another spell. This eliminates the need for /stopcasting in macros to compensate for latency.

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Where in there does it say it triggers the GCD?

Seems based on that wording to not impact anything.....

You know... 2.3 has been up on the test realm for a few weeks now. Has anyone actually tested it or are we all just freaking out because Britney Spears hasn't done anything foolish today... oh wait... there she goes now. Nevermind.

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Originally Posted by kadaan

People are crying wolf with no facts imo.

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Originally Posted by 2.3 Patch Notes

Client spell cast requests are now sent to the server even if your player is already casting another spell. This eliminates the need for /stopcasting in macros to compensate for latency.

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Where in there does it say it triggers the GCD?

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No, people are not crying wolf. Here's a link to blue posts about it:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...id=1&pageNo=11

The posts that highlight the problem:

Post from Pjamin, note - he's quoting Slouken (blue)

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* The client can't initiate casts more often than the global cooldown, so it's only a problems for spells with longer cast times than the global cooldown.

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So my 1.5 sec Flash of Light Spell is always penalized by latency?

Edit: With 500ms latency I might as well down rank my HL as it would heal for more and be more mana efficient or am I missing something obvious?

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* in 2.2 you couldn't initiate a cast on the client before the client received notification from the server that the previous cast had completed.

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But I could circumvent that with quartz and stop casting.

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* This discussion doesn't really involve people using /stopcasting, because they aren't the ones spam casting. In 2.2 they would interrupt their previous cast, losing the time already spent casting, and in 2.3 they wait the round trip latency for the error message from the server, both of which are less efficient than getting the timing right.

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But a click 1ms too quick triggers a penalty of GCD + latency, yes? Does it cancel my previous spell?


Post from Slouken (blue)

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So my 1.5 sec Flash of Light Spell is always penalized by latency?

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Nope, assuming constant latency your 1.5 second Flash of Light can be cast back to back.
0.0s: Client starts casting Flash of Light, starts 1.5 second global cooldown
0.25s: Server starts casting Flash of Light
0.5s: Client sees Flash of Light start casting
1.5s: Client finishes global cooldown, starts casting Flash of Light, starts global cooldown
1.75s: Server completes casting Flash of Light, starts casting new Flash of Light
2.0s: Client sees Flash of Light complete and new cast start

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But I could circumvent that with quartz and stop casting.

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Yep, now you don't need stop casting.

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But a click 1ms too quick triggers a penalty of GCD + latency, yes?

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Yes.

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Does it cancel my previous spell?

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No.

Cheers,
Stealthy

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

I'm more confused now than I was before.

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Let me try and clarify - Casting a shadowbolt normally takes 3 seconds (untalented). Currently, becuase the checking of whether you can cast spells or not is only done at the client side, you can effectively shave about 1/2 a second off your spell casting time using the /stopcasting command in a macro.
When the cast bar gets about 5/6 the way to the end, you can hit your macro button to cast another shadowbolt. The client side recognises the /stopcasting command, so stops casting, sends the request to the server, and starts casting the 2nd shadowbolt. But by the time the server receives the /stopcasting command, the spell is already completed, so it's ignored. But by this time the client side is already into the 2nd shadowbolt. The only catch with this is if you do it to early, you actually do stop casting your spell, so it's all in the timing...

With the new method, the checking on spell casting moves to the server side, so you don't need to use the /stopcasting command anymore. The problem is now however, clicking the macro button again for the 2nd shadowbolt triggers the GCD first, then checks with the server if it's ok to cast the spell. If its ok, all good and the spell casts, GCD continues at it's supposed to. If you hit the button too early though, the GCD still triggers, it checks with the server, the server denies the spell, and sends back the denial along with a request to cancel the GCD. Now, once the GCD is triggered, all other spells that use a GCD are locked out until either the GCD finsishes, or the client receives confirmation from the server that the GCD was not justified. For players in the US, the low latency (200 ms?) means that this doesn't affect them too much (although they are still worse off), since the request to cancel the GCD will come back from the server much faster (< 0.5 sec). But for customers not in the US (400 ms) it will probably be around just under a second before the the client recevies the request to cancel the GCD.

So in a nutshell, we have gone from situation where at worst a spell cast was cancelled if you hit a button too early, to a situation where all your spells could be locked out for close to one second depending on what your latency is. This has the biggest effect in raids (where you are trying to maximise your dps by getting off as many spells as possible over a certain time frame) and pvp (where triggering a GCD without casting a spell can be a death sentence).

Hope this helps...

Cheers,
Stealthy

Stopcasting wasn't a hack.

This was a bug, they fixed it.

You're INFINITELY better off just spamming now. The sooner you can get your new request to the server, the sooner it will begin casting. Your best bet is to macro with a G15, or bind nuke to mousewheel up and down.

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Originally Posted by Phate

Stopcasting wasn't a hack.

This was a bug, they fixed it.

You're INFINITELY better off just spamming now. The sooner you can get your new request to the server, the sooner it will begin casting. Your best bet is to macro with a G15, or bind nuke to mousewheel up and down.

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You been hittin da crack pipe again bro? :shock: You are worse off spamming spells now becuase of the GCD being triggered each time you press the macro button. You now have to wait for the server to send back a request denial and GCD cancel request. Spamming now only works on spells with a less than 1.5 sec cast time (i.e. less that the GCD). On any other spells, it will actually increase the time between castings.

Ok if anyone is still doubting the effects of this change, have a look at this post on the PTR forums here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

Download and have a look at the video's Serennia posted, they show how much this change screws PvP, particularly for warriors.

Btw, Serennia is the top ranked PvP warrior in the world, so it's fair to say he knows what he is talking about.

Cheers,
Stealthy

Playing devil's advocate again, do you have links to any recent posts about it? There's a blue reply in that post dated 11/2 saying it should be tweaked/fixed on the PTRs but no confirmation/denial in the rest of the thread.

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Originally Posted by kadaan

Playing devil's advocate again, do you have links to any recent posts about it? There's a blue reply in that post dated 11/2 saying it should be tweaked/fixed on the PTRs but no confirmation/denial in the rest of the thread.

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Well thats only a few days ago...there might be something getting done in maintenance tonight? We can only hope...

Cheers,
Stealthy

This is actually a welcomed change for me personally. My main is Warlock, destruction. Although I don't need this (/stopcasting everything now) it will not have an impact on my playing style at all. If anything it will help casters who are not already /stopcasting to maximize their dps.

I can see warriors, rogues and hunters tearing their hair out though. You are right about the penalty of fucking up being harsher. Especially for those with high latency. But with anything above 3-400 ms I would seriously consider finding a new hobby.

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Originally Posted by Stealthy

Ok if anyone is still doubting the effects of this change, have a look at this post on the PTR forums here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

Download and have a look at the video's Serennia posted, they show how much this change screws PvP, particularly for warriors.

Btw, Serennia is the top ranked PvP warrior in the world, so it's fair to say he knows what he is talking about.

Cheers,
Stealthy

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Did you read the thread? Hortus posted 4 days ago saying that it would be fixed in the next build of the PTR. GG fearmongering and QQtorrents.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16979-m...fter_2_3_a/p3/

Post number 66. Imo manly is a comparable theorycaster to Murphid, and the like.

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Originally Posted by Phate

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Originally Posted by Stealthy

Ok if anyone is still doubting the effects of this change, have a look at this post on the PTR forums here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

Download and have a look at the video's Serennia posted, they show how much this change screws PvP, particularly for warriors.

Btw, Serennia is the top ranked PvP warrior in the world, so it's fair to say he knows what he is talking about.

Cheers,
Stealthy

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Did you read the thread? Hortus posted 4 days ago saying that it would be fixed in the next build of the PTR. GG fearmongering and QQtorrents.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t16979-m...fter_2_3_a/p3/

Post number 66. Imo manly is a comparable theorycaster to Murphid, and the like.

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You realise of course that the post you're linking was made on October 14th, about 2 weeks before the GCD changes were implemented on the PTR...

GG misinformation and QQ fact checking?

Now according to this post from Drysc, the 2.3 patch is scheduled for November 13th, although they have said they will push it back if need be:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...66101883&sid=1
And this still hasn't been fixed on the PTR yet...I'm not saying that Blizz aren't going to fix it, Hortus has said it will be addressed, but the question I suppose is when? Before 2.3 goes live? In 2.4? We can only wait and see.

And just to prove I'm not QQ'ing - there are some things I'm really looking forward to in this patch - priests getting fear ward, as well as improved mana regen and PW:S being affected by spell damage. Also the ability to buy season 1 arena gear as a BG reward is nice. Finally the reduction in XP needed to level between 20 and 60, and the increased XP reward from quests is welcome news!

Cheers,
Shane

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Originally Posted by Stealthy

You realise of course that the post you're linking was made on October 14th, about 2 weeks before the GCD changes were implemented on the PTR...

GG misinformation and QQ fact checking?

Now according to this post from Drysc, the 2.3 patch is scheduled for November 13th, although they have said they will push it back if need be:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...66101883&sid=1
And this still hasn't been fixed on the PTR yet...I'm not saying that Blizz aren't going to fix it, Hortus has said it will be addressed, but the question I suppose is when? Before 2.3 goes live? In 2.4? We can only wait and see.

And just to prove I'm not QQ'ing - there are some things I'm really looking forward to in this patch - priests getting fear ward, as well as improved mana regen and PW:S being affected by spell damage. Also the ability to buy season 1 arena gear as a BG reward is nice. Finally the reduction in XP needed to level between 20 and 60, and the increased XP reward from quests is welcome news!

Cheers,
Shane

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Yarr, the post is older than the bug, but I was using it to show that spamming is the way to go. Hortus said that the GCD being triggered was being addressed, eg, it was not intentional.

Haha, I didn't really think you personally were QQ'ing, just that the thread, and Serennia were blowing something that wasn't even an intended change way out of proportion. I however am just QQing. Warlock main. :(

I am looking forward to being able to farm my warrior a respectable weapon without being a blacksmith though!

Edit: I am the überscrub for the day. Managed to drown on my undead while posting this.

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Originally Posted by Phate

Edit: I am the überscrub for the day. Managed to drown on my undead while posting this.

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Especially if it was your warlock...unending breath much? =P

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Originally Posted by Trowabarton756

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Originally Posted by Phate

Edit: I am the überscrub for the day. Managed to drown on my undead while posting this.

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Especially if it was your warlock...unending breath much? =P

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Baha, no, not that bad. My warlock is human. It's a warrior. But that's still 4 minutes. >.<

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Originally Posted by Phate

Baha, no, not that bad. My warlock is human. It's a warrior. But that's still 4 minutes. >.<

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Touche Mr Swanson, touche....

This is quite annoying, I spent quite a long time creating a "sonar ping" addon to get myself in sync with this stupid new method of casting spells. I don't see any good support for this since various spells have different cooldown triggers it seems (nerf hammer of wrath)

It definitely makes combat seem melee is a lot like LOTRO where everyone fights like a Paladin (simple auto attack, and a buffing of your 'attack mode' with a spell) versus the arcade like feel WoW has had for melee.

ShadowStep -> Sinister strike, oh sorry pressed SS to soon 1.5 second delay.

Unloading everyone upfront for mages/locks? PoM, Pyro, fireblast, cone of cold, whatever ... most likely going to PoM your fireblast but between the two your going to have a 1.5 second extra delay. Why? Because you pressed pyro to fast between PoM and fireblast like you have for the last few years and you get a 1.5second hit for doing that and the fireblast comes off.

Sunder Sunder <needless pause because I pressed sunder to fast> Sunder Sunder.

Playing the game at 300 baud sucks.

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

Only a small percentage of WoW players bitch, either here, the official forums, etc.

If they polled the entire population, which I'm sure is *easy* to do, since they own the software, they could just ask their *paying* customers what they want, and let majority vote.

As I said before, I think playing a melee class just became an exercise in futility.

Or what about that saving heal on a raid boss. Why did we wipe? PLayer X pushed the button .2 secs too fast. :roll:

Stupid game change. Again reinforcing my argument that WoW is just a subscription based open beta.

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Democracy only works if the people know what they want. Just like in the USA, too much of the populous is uneducated, and incapable of determining what would actually be good for them. If the devs let the majority decide on whatever they wanted, everyone would get free epics, and level 70s, etc, etc, and the game would die in a month when everyone got bored.

Political rantings aside, at the end of the day, it's Blizzard's game, not ours. Obviously it's in their best interest to make it an enjoyable game for us, but it's their prerogative to take the game in whichever direction they choose.

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

Your argument is like saying the people could vote and say "no taxes! weeeeeeee!"

Obviously the poles would have to be on subjects that allowed for intelligent changes to the game, not game breaking changes (ie: free-epix 4 all).

I really didn't think I needed to point this out, but thats what I get for assuming. :roll:

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*shrug* they already do that. That's why the devs spend so much time in the class forums. Believe it or not, they do take into account player wants, they just don't weigh them too heavily with how they want the game to go. They typically consider player concerns, then discard them in favour of their concerns. The player desires are known, they simply don't care that much. not really faulting them for it, as I said, it's their game.

Well it looks like Blizz didn't fix it, and it went live - depsite Hortus' comments to the contrary.

And the player base is not happy:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...56225038&sid=1
Up to 150 pages already...

Cheers,
Stealthy

Theorycrafting. If anything it increases our dps since multiboxers can't use /stopcasting macros.

Update from Blizzard on the GCD issues:

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Originally Posted by Drysc

We’re continuing to read reports and feedback, and we’ve recently applied a hotfix that should make it easier to chain cast spells without seeing the “Another action is in progress” or “Spell is not ready yet” messages at the end of casting.

That was just part of the fix; the other part has to be addressed client-side and requires a patch.

The fix that's in the patch is to address players getting the “Spell is not ready yet” when spamming at the beginning of a cast. This message happens instead of just seeing a quick ‘click’ of the spell, which doesn’t affect DPS, but certainly changes the feel of playing as if something has gone wrong. The patch with this other part of the fix will be available on the PTRs within the next week.

We really want everyone to get on the PTR when it does go live, test the changes, and report their findings on the Test Realm forum. We’re continuing to read reports, test the issue internally, and want to reach a resolution that addresses the concerns.

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I must admit, that I have not seen any adverse effects..

and trying to cast lightning bolt in the middle of casting does not trigger a GCD... at least not noticeably so... the GCD on the client is reset if the spell is unable to be cast due to it being triggered too early.

All that is being penalised for an early press is the round trip time to the server... so you lose 200ms... lets face it as boxers we aren't shaving it that fine due to sync issues etc.

It's currently in a bugged state from what I can tell. I didn't know about this until a guildie told me, but you can basically spam any casttime spell and get optimal casting going. There's no timing involved.

What? Multiboxers don't use stopcasting? =)

I use stopcasting on most of my spells with the exception of the healer. Stopcasting to resheep, stopcasting to decurse etc etc. Kicks ass. (Don't worry, I get what yer saying Remote =)

I don't think it will stay like this. Blizzards original intention was that if you recast a spell before the cast had gone off, you'd start a new spell. Also there seems to be some issues with instacast spells like warlock dots (Ability not ready, unverified by me personally).