New Vetra Products for Multiboxing!

This is pretty neat.... Vetra has some new combination KM/Multicaster units out now. I wish they were 10 port not 8 but still....

http://www.vetra.com/808B_text.html

Not sure why they offer the KVM versions but still......... this is nice for those who are interested in multiboxing. One box and you are done. Ok well... 5 more :) But still :)

Just to be clear - I don't have any relationship with Vetra or X-Keys or the like. I like their products and I endorse them because they are well made products that I find personally useful. I bought all of mine out of my own pocket.

I concur they make great stuff!

I am a bit confused on the wording however, or at least convey the new features.

Taking from the site:
A useful example of inversion multicasting for multiboxing would be having the currently selected channel blocked from receiving multicasts. If selecting keyboard-only multicasting, for example, the keyboard is locked out, but the mouse is not. The user can use the mouse control the selected PC channel and simultaneously use the keyboard to control the other multicast PC channels. In effect, you can control your lead character with the mouse, and your backup army with the keyboard, all at the same time!

Using 5 PC's as an example does this mean that A,B,C,D Is on but E is not? That;s the way I read it. If only E Castings (to reply to tells) and A,B,C,D at time would not, then yes that would be handy. However it just remove one out of loop for no broadcasts I'm not really sure how that would be useful. Perhaps I'm interpreting this incorrectly?

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124862#po st124862

Figures they'd come out with this.

Just needs built in Y-Mouse-type capabilities and it would be perfect.

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If that were the case, just think about all the wires you could remove out of your setup. I know for at least mine It's a bit crazy :D

Funny story - I gave them the idea for the broadcasting lockout about two months back when I ordered my keyboard broadcaster. I'm glad to see they got the mouse incorporated, but I'd like to know how well it works. Also, I was just shooting the breeze with the fellow taking my order. I'm glad they produced the product since I'm not in a position to do so. I'm a little ticked, though. Not about them taking my idea - I gave it to them and it's good for the community to have the tool handy. I'm a little upset that they came out with this product about six weeks or so after I ordered my 4-port keyboard broadcaster AND gave them the idea for these products.

Don't get me wrong - they made the right decision in creating them. Heck, I'm interested in buying one. But I'm going to have to work out where I get the money from since, despite doing well for myself, I can't just throw down the $359 or whatever for the new unit especially IMMEDIATELY after spending $199 on the broadcaster I have now.

But yeah, I'm going to have to break down and get one I think. The broadcasting lockout is too useful for a "Holy Trinity" group, and the mouse broadcasting (assuming it works) is the answer to a lot of people's prayers, what with the issue of AoE spells and whatnot.

Quote:

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There are several useful settings for Multicast mode. Scroll Lock+"B" selects multicasting mode. All PC channels receive keyboard and mouse multicasted output. Scroll Lock+"K" selects keyboard only multicasting. All PC channels receive keyboard multicasted output. The mouse is connected only to one PC channel, the one currently selected. Scroll Lock+"M" selects mouse only multicasting. All PC channels receive mouse multicasted output. The keyboard is connected only to one PC channel, the one currently selected. Any valid Scroll Lock command will override all previous commands.

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This right there is the interesting part.

However, I wonder when you're using the "KVM" part of the switch -- what happens to your other monitors? For example, if i hit "SCROLL LOCK + 1" to switch to my pc #1, do all of my other screens go blank? Cuz that would be teh suck. The other monitors should always be displaying something, otherwise there's no point in having them if they're only going to be on while I'm multiplexing...

In essence: I never want it to be the case that all of my monitors are "off" except for one.

EDIT: Owait... I read this wrong I think... Are they expecting you to ONLY have one monitor for all of your computers? Sucky!

I suppose though all I'd have to do is just not plug any of my monitors into their KVM/multiplexer at all, but hey... ;) If I'm going to pay $400-600 for a device I want to be able to use all the fancy stuff!

I also kinda wish the button wasn't "scroll lock"... that's awfully far away for me to have to press from my left hand being in the standard "WASD" position and my right hand being on my mouse.

Also: Only VGA connectors? No DVI? :( Sad panda.


Otherwise, it's a very tempting device... if I didn't already invest in the seperate devices already. >.<

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Originally Posted by Bradster',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124865#post 124865]I concur they make great stuff![/quote]

Yep. I've been nothing but pleased with what I've ordered from them.

[quote='Bradster',index.php?page=Thread&postID=1248 65#post124865]I am a bit confused on the wording however, or at least convey the new features.[/quote]

I think I can help.

[quote='Bradster',index.php?page=Thread&postID=1248 65#post124865]
Taking from the site:
[size=10][font='Arial

A useful example of inversion multicasting for multiboxing would be having the currently selected channel blocked from receiving multicasts. If selecting keyboard-only multicasting, for example, the keyboard is locked out, but the mouse is not. The user can use the mouse control the selected PC channel and simultaneously use the keyboard to control the other multicast PC channels. In effect, you can control your lead character with the mouse, and your backup army with the keyboard, all at the same time![/font][/size]

Using 5 PC's as an example does this mean that A,B,C,D Is on but E is not? That;s the way I read it. If only E Castings (to reply to tells) and A,B,C,D at time would not, then yes that would be handy. However it just remove one out of loop for no broadcasts I'm not really sure how that would be useful. Perhaps I'm interpreting this incorrectly?

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I'm almost certain that they miss-understood the scenario that I setup for them when I was describing it, so they're struggling to justify the feature. Basically, I was describing the issue of sometimes wanting to be able to take a machine out of the loop of broadcasts. Primarily, this would be good for "Holy Trinity" groups when Macros in-game just aren't enough. Technically, though, they're right about their claims of dual control. I also explained that I frequently play my primary character as a different class or spec than the other four, so it makes sense for me to keep multiple sets of controls.

Like I said, this device was theoretically intended to provide the level of control in a "Holy Trinity" setup that macros could not. Yes, it would require extra control sets, but I thought that was a little obvious. I like where they've gone with it, though. Putting the KVM in there and making the broadcast lockout aware of what machine the KVM is on is actually quite good since it would allow for more control for those that refuse to use more than one keyboard (no criticism intended).

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

However, I wonder when you're using the "KVM" part of the switch -- what happens to your other monitors? For example, if i hit "SCROLL LOCK + 1" to switch to my pc #1, do all of my other screens go blank? Cuz that would be teh suck. The other monitors should always be displaying something, otherwise there's no point in having them if they're only going to be on while I'm multiplexing...

In essence: I never want it to be the case that all of my monitors are "off" except for one.

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Recall that they reason they make a lot of these products KVMs instead of KMs is that they don't want to lock themselves into a single solution set - they want the product to be applicable to as many fields as possible (good business, etc).

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

I suppose though all I'd have to do is just not plug any of my monitors into their KVM/multiplexer at all, but hey... ;)

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Yes. In fact, I use a 4-port keyboard broadcaster right now, but I also use a 4-port KVM to the same machines. Like I said, I like to control my main character aside from the other four. Not having the monitors hooked up to the monitor switch is a-okay.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124867#po st124867

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Originally Posted by 'Bradster',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124866#pos t124866

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124862#po st124862

Figures they'd come out with this.

Just needs built in Y-Mouse-type capabilities and it would be perfect.

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If that were the case, just think about all the wires you could remove out of your setup. I know for at least mine It's a bit crazy :D

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I'm actually preparing to rack-mount all my PCs to help with the "clutter". It is indeed a freakin mess. :p

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I almost did that myself, but I then un-hooked everything and took the time to route the cables around where they needed to go and tied everything as I went. It made a world of difference w/o a rack mount solution, but I have a LARGE desk that easily handles this and my control setup.

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

EDIT: Owait... I read this wrong I think... Are they expecting you to ONLY have one monitor for all of your computers? Sucky!

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Again, they're just putting a KVM switch in it so that it is compliant with other applications. That, and the broadcasting lockout feature depends on the KVM switch in certain cases, it seems.

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

If I'm going to pay $400-600 for a device I want to be able to use all the fancy stuff!

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Perhaps I'm not understanding how they chose to implement my idea, but it seems like the KVM switch helps control the broadcasting lockout to some extent. Not using the video switch for anything doesn't seem like a drawback in this context. Also note that the cost on including the video in something that was effectively a KM switch before, along with everything else in this unit, really doesn't add up to much being "wasted."

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

I also kinda wish the button wasn't "scroll lock"... that's awfully far away for me to have to press from my left hand being in the standard "WASD" position and my right hand being on my mouse.

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Granted, but as an X-Keys user, you could easily bind the settings you wanted to the X-Keys that is plugged into the keyboard port on this unit, assuming that you haven't already filled it up with other bindings. That's exactly what I'm going to do when I get mine, it just might not be for a while. :(

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

Otherwise, it's a very tempting device... if I didn't already invest in the seperate devices already. >.<

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This is my only gripe with the product, especially since I just bought the separate devices six weeks ago, let along after giving them the idea for this one over the phone. Again, I'm not upset about them releasing the product, I'm upset about the timing. I am really happy this was put into production. I just wish that I hadn't ordered a two-hundred dollar product from them only to consider replacing it for a better one six weeks later.

You guys know you can order the KM option - no video ports at all, right?

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Originally Posted by 'Basilikos',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124869#po st124869

Funny story - I gave them the idea for the broadcasting lockout about two months back when I ordered my keyboard broadcaster. I'm glad to see they got the mouse incorporated, but I'd like to know how well it works. Also, I was just shooting the breeze with the fellow taking my order. I'm glad they produced the product since I'm not in a position to do so. I'm a little ticked, though. Not about them taking my idea - I gave it to them and it's good for the community to have the tool handy. I'm a little upset that they came out with this product about six weeks or so after I ordered my 4-port keyboard broadcaster AND gave them the idea for these products.

Don't get me wrong - they made the right decision in creating them. Heck, I'm interested in buying one. But I'm going to have to work out where I get the money from since, despite doing well for myself, I can't just throw down the $359 or whatever for the new unit especially IMMEDIATELY after spending $199 on the broadcaster I have now.

But yeah, I'm going to have to break down and get one I think. The broadcasting lockout is too useful for a "Holy Trinity" group, and the mouse broadcasting (assuming it works) is the answer to a lot of people's prayers, what with the issue of AoE spells and whatnot.

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I sent in helpful ideas myself, this is not exactly what I sent but it does address some of my suggestions so I look at it as a positive thing. Perhaps we can work together on asking them about trade-ins? Want to draft something together and see where it leads us? Send me a PM.

The ~ key would be ideal I think would being next to the numbers for quickness. But then I'd loose my spread out formation Key XD

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

I also kinda wish the button wasn't "scroll lock"... that's awfully far away for me to have to press from my left hand being in the standard "WASD" position and my right hand being on my mouse.

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It takes a lot longer to bring a product from testing to market than a few weeks. I don't think they got the idea solely from you and made it that quick, I'm sure this has been brewing for a while seeing as they read these forums.

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Originally Posted by 'Physics101',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124911#p ost124911

It takes a lot longer to bring a product from testing to market than a few weeks. I don't think they got the idea solely from you and made it that quick, I'm sure this has been brewing for a while seeing as they read these forums.

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I'm not so sure, since the day I called, they had engineering staffing the sales department for various reasons. I spoke with an engineer and he wasn't even aware they they were doing anything like this (or at least heavily hinted at that). If, on the other hand, they WERE developing this sort of thing (referring to the broadcasting lockout, since everything else was almost done with according to the guy I spoke to), I'm going to be REALLY pissed. You see, if they were working on it right then and didn't hint that I should wait to make my purchase, they took advantage of me. THAT'S the reason I'm a little upset about the timing.

Bottom line - either they weren't working on it at the time and they're honest, or they were working on it at the time and they totally screwed me knowing full well that I would have rather had the newer product (after all, I did ask about the possibility of it). The impression I got was that every aspect of this new line had already been designed and tested (other than the broadcasting lockout, which I suggested then). Did they get the idea some place else? Perhaps. But if that's the case, then they had me over a barrel and just let me have it. Based on Vetra's reputation up to this point, I HIGHLY doubt they did that.

Nevertheless, I'd like to know from them what happened since this thing came out pretty quickly after what I assume (and with decent reason) was the first time they'd heard of it. If they even suspected that they might have had it in testing or production in the near future, it would have been a bit nicer of them to have let me know that. Of course, details matter and this all could just be goofy timing.

I'd still like to know, though...

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Originally Posted by 'Bradster',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124907#pos t124907

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Originally Posted by 'Basilikos',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124869#po st124869

But yeah, I'm going to have to break down and get one I think. The broadcasting lockout is too useful for a "Holy Trinity" group, and the mouse broadcasting (assuming it works) is the answer to a lot of people's prayers, what with the issue of AoE spells and whatnot.

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I sent in helpful ideas myself, this is not exactly what I sent but it does address some of my suggestions so I look at it as a positive thing. Perhaps we can work together on asking them about trade-ins? Want to draft something together and see where it leads us? Send me a PM.

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Actually, they are reading this thread quite a bit right now. I didn't even tell the Vetra guy I spoke with my dual-boxing.com username, and yet I got a PM from him this morning on this website telling me about the new products. He specifically mentioned my requests. I'm guessing he noticed the thread I put up right after having that phone conversation and took note of my identity. At this point, I'm not as interested in a buy-back program as I am with the issue of the timing of all this. I'd like to know the details of what went on since they will largely determine how I was treated. But yeah, depending on how things unfold with that, I'd considering looking at a buy-back proposal.

As per the wire clutter coming out the back of the vetras - cable ties! Have squillions of them spaced about a foot apart going to all the boxes (6 boxing for eq2) - have them holding everything together which makes it all neat - have also labelled every single wire as seriously, if one of the suckers fell out I'd be lost without a tag

Another thing I bought to reduce the wire clutter is from Ikea - they have these nifty wire rack mounts which you can screw underneath your desktop - have a few of those running along the back of the desk - looks a horrible mess underneath but at least I don't kick the wires all the time...

One thing I'd love to see is a reduction in the lag which occurs between switching from full broadcast to single cast (for chatting, passwords, etc.) - this has caused me a few problems in the past where basically all of a sudden one of my slaves will start opening up a million message boxes (everything from inventory to bags to whatever)

As per a reply above - the inclusion of the y-mouse would be nice - 1 less thing to worry about - not to mention the price of said y-mouse after shipping to Aust... /cough cough wheeeeze

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124867#po st124867

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Originally Posted by 'Bradster',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124866#pos t124866

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124862#po st124862

Figures they'd come out with this.

Just needs built in Y-Mouse-type capabilities and it would be perfect.

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If that were the case, just think about all the wires you could remove out of your setup. I know for at least mine It's a bit crazy :D

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I'm actually preparing to rack-mount all my PCs to help with the "clutter". It is indeed a freakin mess. :p

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Heh, you're not alone...I'm pricing up something similar myself. :thumbup:

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

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There are several useful settings for Multicast mode. Scroll Lock+"B" selects multicasting mode. All PC channels receive keyboard and mouse multicasted output. Scroll Lock+"K" selects keyboard only multicasting. All PC channels receive keyboard multicasted output. The mouse is connected only to one PC channel, the one currently selected. Scroll Lock+"M" selects mouse only multicasting. All PC channels receive mouse multicasted output. The keyboard is connected only to one PC channel, the one currently selected. Any valid Scroll Lock command will override all previous commands.

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This right there is the interesting part.

However, I wonder when you're using the "KVM" part of the switch -- what happens to your other monitors? For example, if i hit "SCROLL LOCK + 1" to switch to my pc #1, do all of my other screens go blank? Cuz that would be teh suck. The other monitors should always be displaying something, otherwise there's no point in having them if they're only going to be on while I'm multiplexing...

In essence: I never want it to be the case that all of my monitors are "off" except for one.

EDIT: Owait... I read this wrong I think... Are they expecting you to ONLY have one monitor for all of your computers? Sucky!

I suppose though all I'd have to do is just not plug any of my monitors into their KVM/multiplexer at all, but hey... ;) If I'm going to pay $400-600 for a device I want to be able to use all the fancy stuff!

I also kinda wish the button wasn't "scroll lock"... that's awfully far away for me to have to press from my left hand being in the standard "WASD" position and my right hand being on my mouse.

Also: Only VGA connectors? No DVI? :( Sad panda.


Otherwise, it's a very tempting device... if I didn't already invest in the seperate devices already. >.<

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I agree, this device is a step in the right direction but it's not quite there in my opinion. The perfect setup would be a device that multicasts keystrokes and splits video to the main and slave monitors. I have used the Vetra keyboard multicaster with three PCs. I had my main toon on my fastest PC and 4 toons split between the two other PCs; using Keyclone to multicast keystrokes on the two slaves. This was a great setup but the downside was not having a way to effectively transfer leadership. I recently upgraded my main PC to a quad core and put all 5 clients on the same PC with two monitors. I wanted to see how the lag would be and surprisingly, there is very little. Now mind you, I am a server engineer so I have some knowledge about PCs and getting the most out of them.

So as much as I would love to be softwareless, I am very happy without all of the hardware. The ease of switching leadership using Keyclone is so fast and effective, I would say it's better than hardware. Now if Blizzard ever banned Keyclone then I would be back to hardware. But in the meantime, my wife is happier paying a lesser electricity bill. :thumbsup:

NVM, deleting post before I get yelled at for not reading her post completly. Damn me for missing one sentence -_-

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Originally Posted by Suvega

NVM, deleting post before I get yelled at for not reading her post completly. Damn me for missing one sentence -_-

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*eyes*

:huh:

Failboat double post that refuses to delete. BAD DATABASE!

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

In essence: I never want it to be the case that all of my monitors are "off" except for one.

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Originally Posted by 'Ticks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=125214#post12 5214

This was a great setup but the downside was not having a way to effectively transfer leadership

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This guy knows how to read my mind. Or at least my poor choice in words.

KVMs are great, but they're not necessarily designed with multiboxers in mind. Vetra is doing a great job in hardware in that they're attempting to close the gap between the "normal" kvm's and multiplexers -- and what multiboxers, SPECIFICALLY, need. However it's not QUITE there yet, I think.

What I would absolutely ADORE is a way to "rotate" my screens. Essentially, I would love for the multiplexer and KVM features to be two seperate entities (which is how I have it now), but in a single space and dollar-saving package.

For example:

KVM feature: I have computers "1", "2", "3", "4", and "5". I am currently in control of computer "1" with my keyboard and mouse. I decide that I want to be in control (with keyboard and mouse) of computer "2". I can press the correct key sequence/button and wham -- KVM is now computer two. The video from Comp1 is on what used to be Comp2's monitor, and the video from Comp2 is on what used to be Comp 1's. Essentially a "swap" KVM.

Multiplexer feature: At any point (whether or not I am mid-KVM "swap"), I can turn the keyboard multiplexer on/off -- sending keys to all 5 windows at once. At any point (whether or not I am mid KVM "swap") I can turn the mouse multiplexer on/off. These should be independent of each other, so either both can be off, one can be on, or both can be on.

Usability: Since gaming is designed to be left hand on KVM, right hand on mouse -- both the KVM key sequence and the multiplexer key sequence should be close to one of those hands. Scroll lock is neither close to my left hand nor close to my right hand. Yes, I could program it into my Xkeys -- but I don't like the Xkeys tactile feedback for "wasd + strafe" keys and primarily use it for buffs, specific totem sequences, mounts, drinking, and the like. Essential buttons (dps, interrupts, primary totem sequences) are always within reach of my left hand, which is glued to my "wasd" keys.

Icing on the cake: Round robin. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD give hardware multiboxers (especially button mashers like me) a reliable "round robin". Right now I'm using a castsequence stagger, but if I double-press the key or get stunned/cc'ed on one alt while it's happening my castsequence is all screwy. I have no idea how to implement this hardware, but if there's a way to designate a key as a "round robin" key (that is, key gets sent to one machine, and on the next keypress gets sent to the next machine, and on the next keypress gets sent to the next machine, etc.) I would adopt that piece of hardware so quickly!


EDIT:
Oh -- and to add to my wishlist of most perfect multiboxer hardware device -- two little lights for each PC (keyboard and mouse) that turn on when keys are being sent to that computer. I.e. if the keyboard multiplexer is on -- all keyboard lights are on. If the mouse multiplexer is on -- all mouse lights are on. If only one PC's keyboard/mouse is on, the lights are on for that PC only.

Vetra gods, please make this happen. ;) I suggest you call this device the "Vyndree Multiboxer UberBox o' Amazingness"

Do they not have these multiplexers in USB models yet? I guess I could just get some converters? I'm not sure that I'd be wanting a multiplexer yet, but if I ever decide to try my hand at 10 mans I will probably want to.

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Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=125337#pos t125337

Do they not have these multiplexers in USB models yet? I guess I could just get some converters? I'm not sure that I'd be wanting a multiplexer yet, but if I ever decide to try my hand at 10 mans I will probably want to.

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I believe they have a "vanilla" usb multicaster, but I'd highly recommend going PS2. USB communication is 2-way, so unless you have perfectly identical computers (and even then, it may be fussy), it would really suck if it ended up flaky.

PS2 all the way for any sort of hardware multiplexing. :) FYI -- most mice come with a USB -> PS2 converter (or at least the mice that I've purchased).

[quote='Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=12529 6#post125296]

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124873#post 124873

KVM feature: I have computers "1", "2", "3", "4", and "5". I am currently in control of computer "1" with my keyboard and mouse. I decide that I want to be in control (with keyboard and mouse) of computer "2". I can press the correct key sequence/button and wham -- KVM is now computer two. The video from Comp1 is on what used to be Comp2's monitor, and the video from Comp2 is on what used to be Comp 1's. Essentially a "swap" KVM.

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This feature would be fantastic - especially for loss of tank mid-fight - not sure if it is possible though

Six weeks ago, Vetra engineers were telling me that they weren't sure if they could make the product that they just released. And only NOW do I see what Vyndree was asking for with the KVM switch. Yeah, that would be nice, but I think it would take a LOT more effort (although, it's the single feature that this product doesn't have now). What they're going to have to do, though, is start making DVI switches first. No hardware multiboxer here is using a VGA video card that is worth anything. Maybe some people use them, but heck no. Not me.

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Originally Posted by 'Basilikos',index.php?page=Thread&postID=125484#po st125484

Yeah, that would be nice, but I think it would take a LOT more effort (although, it's the single feature that this product doesn't have now). What they're going to have to do, though, is start making DVI switches first.

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Agreed.

A girl can dream, though.

Thinking re the changing of montor as per Vyndree above - what about a hardware setup as such (only playing round so imput would be appreciated):

[I have only done the diagram for a dual box set-up to keep it easy]

[img=http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2889/dualboxec0.gif]

'V' switch
- turn it to number 'n' for Box 'n' video, etc.
- monitor 1 & 2 still show the video from their home box
- i.e., the viewing monitor will be a repeat of either 1 or 2
- would assume having graphics cards with 2 x video output slots

'K' switch
- about to send keys to either box 1 OR 2 OR both [through megacast]

'Megacast'
- Full broadcast of all keystrokes to all boxes

Mouse
- taken care of via virtual KVM (i.e., software like multiplicity, etc.)

Assuming the lag between switching between monitors and keyboards can be reduced - would offer a solution to switching group leads, etc.

How fast can the MONITOR switch? It doesn't matter how fast the Vetra can switch if the monitor will impose a 1000 ms (or more) delay.

Also, why not just have 5 monitors? I don't think I see the usefulness here yet.

I think the point is - I do have 6 monitors already - but if I want to switch to another toon as the main I'd have to look up / down / left right / whereever to view the monitors associated with that toon - why not have 7 monitors with the one monitor in front of me just displaying a copy of whatever box I want to run?

Just seems faster to glance a small arc distance rather than physically switch over. Mostly due to hardware limitations.

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Originally Posted by 'Basilikos',index.php?page=Thread&postID=125484#po st125484

Six weeks ago, Vetra engineers were telling me that they weren't sure if they could make the product that they just released. And only NOW do I see what Vyndree was asking for with the KVM switch. Yeah, that would be nice, but I think it would take a LOT more effort (although, it's the single feature that this product doesn't have now). What they're going to have to do, though, is start making DVI switches first. No hardware multiboxer here is using a VGA video card that is worth anything. Maybe some people use them, but heck no. Not me.

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It's called good business. Why would they say no, don't buy this product today. Because in 6 months 27 days 23 hours, and 57 seconds we will be releasing something better. The whole point is you buy the stuff that is out now, and when they release the cutting edge crap you come back and buy more. Honestly, if the engineer was like ya, we are working on something like that it's coming out in 6 weeks. Would you have bought your stuff? No, right? At which point his ass should be fired for losing a sale.

This is Paul from Vetra Systems. First, I would like to thank you all for your support and interest in our products. Wow, you have covered a lot of ground here in a very short time. I just wanted to address some of your comments and clarify some of the features of the new switchcaster (combined KVM switch / broadcaster). Please note, we have only recently started posting here, so please be patient if I miss some subtlety of gaming. We will be checking the forums from time to time, but suggest you contact us via email or phone if you need direct assistance.

The new switchcaster will work both as a KVM switch and a multicaster for both keyboard and mouse. Keyboard and mouse can broadcast together or independently. We added inversion broadcasting, allowing the selection of one channel, broadcasting to all but the selected channel, and the ability to easily toggle between the two. If you want to broadcast to all without inversion, you still can. Channel switching happens even faster than in our standard KVM switches so that any delays should be imperceptible. As an option, the unit is available with expansion, so that you can string together up to 8 units to control up to 64 PCs.

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Originally Posted by 'Bradster',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124866#pos t124866

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=124862#po st124862

Figures they'd come out with this.

Just needs built in Y-Mouse-type capabilities and it would be perfect.

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If that were the case, just think about all the wires you could remove out of your setup. I know for at least mine It's a bit crazy :D

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Actually, the y-mouse functionality is already built-in to the switchcaster, at least for many setups. Often the y-mouse is used to combine the KVM output with the broadcaster output. The switchcaster performs both functions, so the y-mouse is no longer needed. No more maze of wires.


VIDEO FEATURES:

There have been several questions and comments about the video switching. First, let me be clear. The switchcaster has several versions, and is available with keyboard and mouse (KM) only, no video, so if you don't need or want it, you don't have to pay for it. Basilicos pretty much hit the nail on the head. We offer the video, as an option, for those who still want to use this as a traditional KVM switch, now or later on, as well as for non-gaming customers.

As Xzin mentioned, when you switch video, a monitor takes a second, or even several seconds to sync up. This is a limitation of the monitor, not our switch (which switches the video in just a few milliseconds), so there's really nothing we can do about it. As I understand it, this limitation makes video switching of any kind unworkable in just about every gaming scenario, and that most (all?) of you use a separate monitor for each PC.

Thus, we are not planning on offering any gaming-specific video options at this time. We welcome any suggestions, but remember, the monitor itself just cannot switch fast enough.

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=125296#post 125296

...Icing on the cake:[/b] Round robin. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD give hardware multiboxers (especially button mashers like me) a reliable "round robin"...

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I think the switchcaster may help you do this. The feature, scroll-lock- N, selects the next available channel so that you can "instantly" switch from character to character, in order, in rapid succession. It's also available using the "next" button on the front panel.


Regarding several comments about inversion broadcasting, holy trinity groups, transfer of leadership, etc. If I understand correctly, I think we have given you just what you need. With inversion broadcasting you can directly address any character individually, then switch to broadcast to all the other characters, except for the one previously selected. You can toggle back and forth with a single command. You can change the lead character.


Regarding the use of scroll lock for hot-keys, the scroll lock button is used by most, if not all KVM manufacturers because it is virtually never used for anything else. I think you'll find that our scroll-lock switching sequence (scroll-lock 1, 2, etc.) is actually simpler and fewer keystrokes than every other KVM switch on the market. We might look into this further to see if we can find an alternative.


Regarding upgrades, please understand, we are fundamentally a technology-oriented hardware company. Computer hardware manufacturers are in a difficult situation where products change rapidly, but pretty much no one lets you just trade in your old stuff. Intel comes out with scores of new processors practically every month, but they don't let you just trade in your old processor every few months and just pay the difference, right? Obviously, we're a much smaller company, but you get the idea. We want to be responsive and develop new features, but not shoot ourselves in the foot in the process. We have tried to keep you all abreast of our upcoming products. I personally have even mentioned the new switchcaster for some time before its release to those looking to buy standard broadcasters to hopefully avoid any "buyers' remorse". That being said, We are considering some kind of upgrade policy, depending on what product was purchased, and when. I hope we can come up with something that will allow us to offer you some relief without breaking the bank (either yours or ours).


One product can't do everything, but we've tried to make a flexible, versatile product that can adapt to many possible setups and reduce the number of boxes you need. We always welcome any suggestions, comments, and questions. Please feel free to contact us.

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Originally Posted by 'Toned',index.php?page=Thread&postID=126129#post12 6129

It's called good business.

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Yes and no. Yes, they made the sale. It was also tacky (in theory - I'm not ready to actually accuse them of anything).

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Why would they say no, don't buy this product today.

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Assuming they were working on the product right then, they should have (since MANY businesses do this) told me to hang on. I've had it happen to me before.

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Because in 6 months 27 days 23 hours, and 57 seconds we will be releasing something better.

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It was six weeks, not six months. Six months I could see since the product would not have been anywhere near ready for release, which would mean that they couldn't give me any timetable. And that still assumes they were working on it at the time I called.

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The whole point is you buy the stuff that is out now, and when they release the cutting edge crap you come back and buy more.

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Companies that manufacture top-of-the-line electronics equipment, especially PC components, will frequently allow customers to trade-up for the difference of an upgrade to a product that comes out shortly after a purchase of a lesser product. EVGA is an example.

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Honestly, if the engineer was like ya, we are working on something like that it's coming out in 6 weeks. Would you have bought your stuff? No, right?

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You're right, I would not have bought the item I purchased. And, as I've pointed out, there are a LOT of companies that do this. Several chain furniture retailers have done this for me because it's actually a good salesman's M.O. to tell the customers these things.

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At which point his ass should be fired for losing a sale.

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Wrong. And please note we're still talking in the realm of the theoretical here - I have no idea what was going on behind Vetra's doors at the time (to a reasonable degree, anyway). The products they are offering right now are far superior to what I purchased and cost several times as much. In theory, they would have made more money off of me if they had told me to wait (again, assuming quite a bit there). Now, it will likely be a long time before I purchase one of the newer products.

I felt really dumb when I read vetra's post....didn't even think about that...but he's absolutely right about the y-keys, for my setup anyway.

I might be buying one of these....since I contacted the x-keys company about a mouse-only multi caster and said I would pay 400 or so dollars for one, but they never got back to me. (I currently have an 8 port KM and 8 port multicaster from vetra, which I love).

I might be wrong, but it seems like the VIP-808-KM-B-X would nicely take the place of my VIP-848-BC and VIP-808-KM-X at like half the price lol. So very nice for somone looking to switch to hardware. Conversely, sorta expensive for hardware people that are looking to extend their current setup to 10. But as i said above, I once said I'd pay 400 bucks to broadcast a mouse...LOL. Any sort of trade in deal would be extremely welcome, but at the same time, realistically, kinda unexpected.

Maybe I'm missing something about inversion...but I don't really see it being that useful unless you coupled it with a separate KM... That is, simply disabling broadcasting to one PC is useful, but you still need a way to control that particular keyboard. This could be done with a KM for 'main' control, and a 2nd keyboard for broadcast control, fi you want to have two input devices. Unless I'm missing some feature of the vetra device, you'd still need a separate KM to take real advantage of this feature. (I don't see why you couldnt have two input channels in the vetra device and swap them, I just don't see that feature currently). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

With regards to Vyndree's Pie in the Sky Round Robin Dreamage, I don't think the next pc feature really helps that...since (to be effective) it needs to be key based, not keyboard based. You are correct if you wanted to round robin everything, the 'next active' switch would work, but generally (i Think) most people want to round robin certain keys, while still (practically simultaneously) broadcasting Eg, this situation doesnt seem too unlikely:
Hit 4, have shaman 2 earth shock.
Hit 2, have all shamans LB
Hit 4, have shaman 3 earth shock.
HIt 2, have all shamans LB.

There'd be no way (that i see) to do that with the 'next active', since you'd go back to shaman 2, not shaman 3. And that would be a lot of hotkey hitting.

If your looking for a suggestion, well, the only way I see it happening is a piece of hardware that is configurable, and allows you to set any key as a 'round robin' key, where it internally squelches that key for the non selected output channels while in broadcast mode... There would almost have to be a software component to allow sanity while configuring it. Its pretty much wishful thinking.

It occurs to me that someone could write software that does this on each of the machines, while still relying on the hardware for the broadcast itself. Also, a cast sequence for wow that didn't halt on spell failure would accomplish the same thing. The former is probably more of a possibility. In the simplest case, it doesn't even have to communicate with other instances, just only pass every 3rd 4th 10th or whateverth key to wow.

Oh, and lastly, a disclaimer, I'm so NOT a hardware guy, was just seeking to clarify a bit and generally talking out my but.

Edit:
I don't really like the scroll lock hot keys either...but thats why I have a x-keys stick. Configurable hot keys would be nice, but probably a lot of work for little return. Tho that does lead me to something that'd be really cool...and kinda similar to what I was thinking above, but anyway, a multi caster that allowed programming for each output channel would be really cool. (By programming, I mean more along the lines of simple macros/changing what keys do/etc. ) Thats really really pie in the sky tho. Hmm. I don't see any reason why you have to have a special keypad to have programmable keys...why not just some box that takes keyboard input, modifies it, and then passes it on to the computer? Might be a potential product for general gaming applications...I dunno. Im sure theres a reason that everyone makes programmable keypads/keyboards/etc and not just The Magic Programmable Box that works with any ps2 keyboard...LOL. K, im gonna lay off the chocolate and go to bed. yeah. wheeeee.

Ish