Aelli's Shaman 3.0 pre expansion talent spec

This will be my talent layout for the 3.0 expansion, 2 will have elemental oath, 1 with totem of wrath and the rest is filler in Lava Flows.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hEc0qcdzthect0gM

Yes, we do lose NS - but we gain so much survivability and mobility.
Any target being focused will usually be silenced/stunned/ or feared which kicks in our passive ability to takes 30% less damage, this is huge and I would say is even more valuable than any talent in the elemental tree.

Instant Ghost Wolf to close in on targets running away or to just be more active while not getting sapped.
Grounding totem down to 13 seconds, AND a blue post just mentioned the 4 piece set bonus for Elemental is a reduced cooldown for Grounding, I'm hoping it's at least another 2 seconds - and that would be insane, dropping Grounding down to a 11 second cooldown means caster heavy teams became that much easier to overcome. All in all it's good news and I'm happy to get rid of NS as a crutch.

Edit** new build

My spec may have changed a bit, this is what I will be using today, not sure if it matches up with the original.

3.0 Pre Wrath on Main
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hyc0qfdztheot0gR
3.0 Pre Wrath on Alts
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hAc0qfdztGe0t0gR

Xpac
both builds will have an additional 10 points into enhancement, layout will probably change with future updates though.

I've been doing my matches as ToW to get ready (and because I'm to cheap to spec back and forth). So far on bloodlust i've only been able to get to 1580 with a priest healing, but my gear is still trash. Not using NS hasn't been to bad, just means getting rushed is a little bit more hectic when you can't instagib someone.

Thunderstorm gives you the breathing room to blow up a target.

why no fire nova totem? i thought the 2 seconds would be good enough for the 2 hit kill and those lovely rogues?

I'd rather throw them 20 yards away from me :) it still takes 3 seconds for it go off, they can easily see it and move away.

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122085#post12 2085

I'd rather throw them 20 yards away from me :) it still takes 3 seconds for it go off, they can easily see it and move away.

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You can also drop fire nova wait for GCD thunderstorm and while they're going back get hit with the nova so they're stunned for a sec before they start heading towards you. The stun is also nice to stop people while they're pillar humping / running around you with frost shock. You do need 2 points in it though and it's too hard to get at 70 I think lol ;( 80 will be more fun.

Are you serious? The fire nova totem stun is _HUGE_. Only highly skilled and perceptive arena players will move away from your totems. This is an AWESOME tool against any "sub-2000" meelee player.

I'm looking at the same spec, save 1 point. I'm planning to put 1 point into Imp Fire Nova totem rather than Elemental Precision. The extra 1% space goat racial should mean that point is irrelevant in elemental precision.

After this it appears I can pick up 2/2 Imp Fire Nova totem on all 5, with 2/2 Oath on 2, and ToW on 1.

I would go enhancing totems on the toon you use flametongue with. Instead of 5/5 ancestral knowledge.

Won't be using Flametongue totem though, Totem of Wrath overrides it.

I may try the Fire Nova totem layout pending if Thunderstorm isn't enough, though 4 20 yard knockbacks with a 45 second cooldown feels more than sufficient. Mind you in the meantime you'll have 2 Searings 1 Totem of Wrath and 1 Frost Resistance Totem, and all of these play a crucial role in maximizing your effectiveness.

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122168#post12 2168

Won't be using Flametongue totem though, Totem of Wrath overrides it.

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Darn.

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"though 4 20 yard knockbacks with a 45 second cooldown feels more than sufficient"

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Dude... most classes would -kill- for an AoE stun. Take 2 points from Convection, put it in improved novas. Do you really think that saving 4 % mana compares to stunning all your meelee opponents, SEVERAL TIMES?!

On the latest beta I am pretty sure it is only a 6 yard knockback, hopefully I'm wrong. I specced this on my guys but have not played with it much, and it is pretty much just a knockback with little to no knockup.

They've acknowledged that it's suppose to be 15-20 yards, not 6 :P

I may drop the 2 points in convection for Imp. Fire Nova, but I'm not sure it is needed for the playstyle I'm thinking. I don't want people to be on top of me and with 4 thunderstorms they should be far far away at all times.

I am taking the imp novas for PvE as well. And Instant ghost wolf is a must now..imo..Ill be PvPing with 5 shaman in wotlk ( BGs ) My paly will still be there.. since his hotrod aura will work outside my group now 8)

Despite the tool tip saying 6 yards. it really is between 15-20 yards. I've tested it repeatedly and altho i do think we have lost a little distance on the knockback it's only 2-3 yards from what it was.

Just an Idea. Imp. Nova totem, then Thunderstorm them away from you for a stun and a knock away. would seem like it would be fun. :)

1 reason to pick imp fire nova totem is that alot of meele will panic when they get stunned in your meele range(and hopefully blowing the pvp trinket, and rogues are pretty much forced to blow clos early on. This means they can be hexed without an escape later but 3 classes can decurse however.

The cd on fire novas is 15 seconds right? Wich means you wont even have to think about DR making them immune.

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122223#post12 2223

They've acknowledged that it's suppose to be 15-20 yards, not 6 :P

I may drop the 2 points in convection for Imp. Fire Nova, but I'm not sure it is needed for the playstyle I'm thinking. I don't want people to be on top of me and with 4 thunderstorms they should be far far away at all times.

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Actually .. They changed it from 20 to 5, then from 5 to 6 + stating that knockback effect has been increased per yard :>

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Originally Posted by 'iztehzha',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122413#pos t122413

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122223#post12 2223

They've acknowledged that it's suppose to be 15-20 yards, not 6 :P

I may drop the 2 points in convection for Imp. Fire Nova, but I'm not sure it is needed for the playstyle I'm thinking. I don't want people to be on top of me and with 4 thunderstorms they should be far far away at all times.

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Actually .. They changed it from 20 to 5, then from 5 to 6 + stating that knockback effect has been increased per yard :>

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Here's the latest post. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...63&sid=2000#59

It just hasn't been changed back - but as was stated, it should be going back to 20 yrds.

I guess they couldn't fix it the way they wanted to do it at first :P

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Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122146#post12 2146

Are you serious? The fire nova totem stun is _HUGE_. Only highly skilled and perceptive arena players will move away from your totems. This is an AWESOME tool against any "sub-2000" meelee player.

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Ellay plays against highly skilled arena teams.

But i would watch out for stuff that can get the people back to you quick like the warriors dash thing, blink, the druid dash (i know that you said druids are not in your ranking usually, but they can still do it), and rogue shadowstep.

On the other hand though.. if meelee moves away from your fire novas.. it means they aren't putting the hurt on you.. and if they stay, they will get stunned.

It's a big win-win either way, and TOTALLY worth 2 talent points.

It's back to original it just doesn't launch ppl 20 yds in Air, which is equal to a 4 second stun.

It was OP. AoE, Instant cast, 45 sec CD, knock-back, Oh yeah, it also does damage and boost your mana.

Only thing it didn't do is spawn naked chicks with beer flavored nipples.

Also guys srsly. Improved nova? If that makes or breaks games you need to quit.

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Also guys srsly. Improved nova? If that makes or breaks games you need to quit.

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Who said anything about it making or breaking any game? The point I'm making is that for 2 little talent points, you get a practically spammable round-robin PBAOE stun that also does good damage. Control is worth so much because it helps in several ways.. I can't believe you are comparing 4% saved mana on your nukes with a PBAOE 2 second stun.

I really don't understand why is everyone taking Thunder instead of NS.

NS = ability to instagib someone(after lbolt or followed by shock ofc)

Thunder = ability to get melee off you for few secs

I would much rather instagib the enchament shaman or warrior from the enemy team, rather than just giving me 1-2sec to breath, because thats how long it takes them to get back after being Thundered. The damage of thunder equals shock, so you arent gonna kill anyone with it. 5% mana back is useless, usually during the first 15secs when the fighting begins you will see the out come of the battle, so getting 5% mana back each 45sec equals nothing. Also Thund is useless against ranged dps.

Can someone try to explain to me, why is Thunder"only useful against heavy melee arena teams" better than NS ?

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Originally Posted by 'maximusss',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122770#po st122770

Can someone try to explain to me, why is Thunder"only useful against heavy melee arena teams" better than NS ?

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The problem with NS is that it's in a bloated resto tree. You'd have to spend 21 pts to get it. The only highly useful talents that we'd pick up is 5% extra crit on lightning spells (which with WOTLK we'll be using lava burst, and flame shock, so no bonus there).

You could do a 50/0/21, but you'd have to really pick and choose what talents you want out of the elemental tree. Some things you'd have to drop would probably be full points in elemental precision (and remember, the hit base is being LOWERED and racials and talents increasing chances to not be hit - no longer is 3% hit satisfactory for PvP, or 12% in PvE - AND you have the ability to overcome the last 1% that we never could, so hit is going to mean a lot than how), no totem of wraths, no elemental oaths, no unrelenting storm (which is neither here nor there, really if you get the 25% totem costs), and no eye of the storm. Then you have to consider what you'd pick up by switching to the enhancement tree, which most elemental shamans have been wishing for the longest. 10% boost to int = more mana/more crit, imp grounding totems and instant ghost wolf (if you choose to take both, but I'm sure most boxers will take one or the other).

I'll miss NS, it's nice. But it's highly unreliable at the same time. Thunderstorm isn't just to get melee off of you, it's also to knock out those pillar humpers. Like frost trap, thunderstorm works THROUGH pillars if you're within 12 yrds. You don't need full LoS to knock them around. Same thing with melee dancers. Esp once we get lava burst, this'll allow for some nice flame shock/thunderstorm/lava burst combos.

BTW - with the new pushback changes, just playing in beta and on the PTR, I don't find it even necessary to get Eye of the Storm anymore - however, I actually am finding imp fire nova totems invaluable, which is surprising.

Im playing the beta, but due to major lag issues, im not even enjoying it, and must have played like...half hour. The way thunderstorm is, it's a no go.
I tested it on mobs and, it was like 2 seconds the mob was off me. I think they are reworking it to increase tange again, but still... u can already see the result against melee's: u do thunderstorm and they will charge/titans grip/shadowstep, wtv.... if the spell doesnt get an impairing effect like piercing howl or something, the spell is kinda stupid. Everyone is talking about how it gives u that "space" agaisnt melee teams, and how u blow heavy LOS teams, but u must see what thunderstorm is doing...is like, the enemy jumps, and runs away again... really usefull! Specially behind pillars, u wont even have time to cast, they will run around again.
either they boost it or is NS again.

btw, if thunderstorm gets the same mechanincs as fear (meaning, no jumping of boats, and cliffs, and bridges, and WTV) i sense a lot of shammies will be sad, and believe me, they must be doing that adjustment :)

Don't forget ellay is also only using a spec for a lvl 70 and i bet that he will be reworking the spec for a couple of days till he finds out what works best. Who knows he make spend the 2 points when he is lvl 80. right now he is limited on the stuff he can chose, but at lvl 80 he gets 10 more points to spend.

I hope this spec works because I'd like to see elemental shamans gain more mobility and utility for a more aggressive approach to arena.

With the new changes like dynamic pillars and class abilities, its going to make it even more important to be on the offensive. And when moving around in arena stops feeling like you are packing up a family to go on vacation and more like a single unit, then arena just got a lot more fun. :thumbup:

I don't know how your arenas are played, what combos do you face, what are you strategies. But I really don't find TS that useful on the ones I play, specially the ones against heavy casting teams - Locks, Mages, Ele Shamans and Hunters. Playing +15 minutes arenas against these guys always LoSing it's so much boring, stressful, disencouraging, etc... And the thing that prevents us the most of facing that is --------> NS. Not to mention that having some points in resto also helps my teammate with the heals on his toons and on me.
Ppl usually argument it will be useful against melees... will it?
I'm not so sure about that and I really can't see TS as effective as NS, but... let's just wait and see.

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Originally Posted by 'Pikey',index.php?page=Thread&postID=123045#post12 3045

I hope this spec works because I'd like to see elemental shamans gain more mobility and utility for a more aggressive approach to arena.

With the new changes like dynamic pillars and class abilities, its going to make it even more important to be on the offensive. And when moving around in arena stops feeling like you are packing up a family to go on vacation and more like a single unit, then arena just got a lot more fun. :thumbup:

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This is the only reason to put some points in instant GW... otherwise... I don't find it useful either.

This spec I am proposing is to try it out - nothing permanent. If it doesn't perform like NS does, then it's back to NS. They changed spell power though and our heals are hitting insanely hard without speccing into Resto, which is a truly bloated tree now that the extended range on totem talents is gone.

Cooldown reduction on grounding totem from pvp gear is 1.5s Also the blue pvp gear looks like garbage lol :/

Taking down Grounding Totem to 11.5 seconds is like living in a dream :)
They just made Thundering Strikes give 5% spell crit in the enhancement tree.

This is my lvl 80 build http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hAc0qfdzthest0ggho

The reason I am taking the improved shields is to gain 15% more damage from Lightning Shield that on top of the Glyph that gives 20% increased damage will be a total of +35% damage causing it to hit for 1300-1400+ at least. Imagine a Mage trying to AoE down you now! :) Ahh! It looks so fun!

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=123084#post12 3084

Taking down Grounding Totem to 11.5 seconds is like living in a dream :)
They just made Thundering Strikes give 5% spell crit in the enhancement tree.

This is my lvl 80 build http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hAc0qfdzthest0ggho

The reason I am taking the improved shields is to gain 15% more damage from Lightning Shield that on top of the Glyph that gives 20% increased damage will be a total of +35% damage causing it to hit for 1300-1400+ at least. Imagine a Mage trying to AoE down you now! :) Ahh! It looks so fun!

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Haha yea that will be fun. They buffed Lava Burst a lot. Will be 1.5s cast and is about equal to Lightning Bolt damage. On the premade 80s critting for 4.9-5.1k with Call of Flame. The premades have 18-20% crit reduction from resil. So that will be 16k dmg from only the Lava Bursts not counting any damage from Flame Shocks. The shaman have 15.2k hp, haven't really looked at other classes. With that damage from Lava Burst / Flame shocks, NS doesn't seem to be as needed lol.

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=123084#post12 3084

The reason I am taking the improved shields is to gain 15% more damage from Lightning Shield that on top of the Glyph that gives 20% increased damage will be a total of +35% damage causing it to hit for 1300-1400+ at least. Imagine a Mage trying to AoE down you now! :) Ahh! It looks so fun!

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Did you also notice that they remove the mana cost from lightning shield as well? :)

Quick question tho - Thundering Strikes 5/5 vs. Elemental Oath 2/2. Same benefit, but 3 extra TP. I could do the math, but even at a base 20% crit chance, it seems likely that elemental oath will always be up from one of the 4 shaman procing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=123084#post12 3084

Taking down Grounding Totem to 11.5 seconds is like living in a dream :)
They just made Thundering Strikes give 5% spell crit in the enhancement tree.

This is my lvl 80 build http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hAc0qfdzthest0ggho

The reason I am taking the improved shields is to gain 15% more damage from Lightning Shield that on top of the Glyph that gives 20% increased damage will be a total of +35% damage causing it to hit for 1300-1400+ at least. Imagine a Mage trying to AoE down you now! :) Ahh! It looks so fun!

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Looks very good IMO.

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Quick question tho - Thundering Strikes 5/5 vs. Elemental Oath 2/2. Same benefit, but 3 extra TP. I could do the math, but even at a base 20% crit chance, it seems likely that elemental oath will always be up from one of the 4 shaman procing it.

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Thundering Strikes is passive ability that is self only, Elemental Oath is a group/raid buff. They will stack together :)

I suspect there is an incoming rework of the +spell damage/haste totems for shaman.. The way it works now seems confused, unfinished and not really thought through. TOW overwrites another totems? A 41 point talent that.. makes an existing ability useless and provides a minor upgrade.. wat?

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Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=123174#post12 3174

I suspect there is an incoming rework of the +spell damage/haste totems for shaman.. The way it works now seems confused, unfinished and not really thought through. TOW overwrites another totems? A 41 point talent that.. makes an existing ability useless and provides a minor upgrade.. wat?

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I wouldn't be so sure. ToW is a talent, so not everybody will have it giving flametongue a place. This "multiple similar buffs, some of which overwrite one another" theme is highly recurrent in wotlk atm, so it probably doesn't really stand out to them.

Also, if the 41 pt you are referring to is ToW, I disagree that it's a "minor upgrade." It's huge, since not only is 280 spell dmg and probably 3% crit much better than 12%crit/hit for pvp, but it comes from one totem, leaving 4 other slots for other fire totems.

BTW, I've had a lot of fun doing a Frostshock/Thunderstorm combo on beta. It takes them a long time to get back. This would be even better multiboxed as you could repeat it. I can imagine some pretty fun castsequence macros on this. :)