Talent Builds

With new talents coming to live probably in a month it is time to redo talent specs. I was never that good making talent builds so i played around a little. Let me know what you guys think.

Sham (1 will get totem of wrath and the other 3 will get the last point in astral shift, depending if flametongue weapon and wrath stack, if they don't i will probably go with all four in astral shift)
Pally
Druid

What do you guys think. These builds will be 90% PvE. If i raid i will probably bring the druid and as many shams as i can. The druid buffs seem strong come WotLK. In the guild i might even make him my main (instead of 1 of the sham like now) so i will be able to raid with him more which would give me better gear (and hopefully an off set tanking set)

• You don't really need astral shift if you are pve.

edit oh I see, 10% pvp covers that

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Originally Posted by 'Multibocks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121521#p ost121521

You don't really need astral shift if you are pve.

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should i put the 2/3 points in convection?

I could care less about saving mana on my totems.. get INSTANT GHOST WOLF MAN !!!! One of my shaman will have the imp strength of earth and flametoung weapon talent as well ( it will help the shamans AND the tank )

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121523#post 121523

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Originally Posted by 'Multibocks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121521#p ost121521

You don't really need astral shift if you are pve.

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should i put the 2/3 points in convection?

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Too be honest I don't know, I havent put a lot of thought into the new talents yet.

[quote='Lyonheart',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121 527#post121527]I could care less about saving mana on my totems.. get INSTANT GHOST WOLF MAN !!!! One of my shaman will have the imp strength of earth and flametoung weapon talent as well ( it will help the shamans AND the tank )[/quote]I see your point about saving mana on totems (with hearing that mana stacks now). But instant ghost wolf might be a 50/50 for me. I say this because if i stay with a pally, then instant ghost wolf is a waste cause they cannot go faster then pally. But if i go druid, which i am 80% likely going to go (if they make dual specs if will 100% go) then there travel form is instant cast too so it will help.

with druid in mine updated specs:
[url='http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?shaman=053300152321535132501351030000000000000000 00000000005202000000000000000000000']Wrath[/url]
No Wrath
Other 2/3

Does elemental Oath stack?

That's a damn good question.

i don't think it does. But i put it in because with 4/5 shams it will almost always be up.

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Originally Posted by 'Lyonheart',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121527#po st121527

I could care less about saving mana on my totems.. get INSTANT GHOST WOLF MAN !!!! One of my shaman will have the imp strength of earth and flametoung weapon talent as well ( it will help the shamans AND the tank )

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Wait, you could or couldn't care less? ?(

Also, I heard they already decided to get rid of instant ghost wolf because it conflicted with what was supposed to be a druid class perk.

Heres my Prot. Pally and Boomkin builds. I'll only be running 1 shaman in my main group (pally+boomkin+shammy+H.Priest+Frost Mage) so I'll spec into Wrath.

Shaman: Since it will be a mixed team, having insta wolf wouldnt be beneficial. Totems I'll most likely be using are Wrath, Mana Spring, Stoneskin & Grounding Totem.

Boomkin: I don't think I'll be having much (if any) periodic dmg in my shot rotation so I didnt go for Genesis, N. Spelndor or insect swarm, instead I went with better mana management cos they way everyone is making it sound (no downranking and %based mana usage) mana might be an issue. I dont use E.Roots and only my pally gets Thorns and he allready does alot of reflective dps so I didnt need Brambles. Instead I went into the resto tree for a bit more spell damage and even more mana management.

Pally: Didnt go for Devine Guardian since using devine shield drops my agro which I dont want. Instead I went more into the Ret tree getting Benediction since avengers shield will be insta cast that puts almost all (if not all) prot pally moves as insta casts and if mana is gonna be an issues 10% less on shields (holy avenger etc), judgement, seals and so forth should help. Went ahead with Crusade, more dps=more threat. I ended up with 1 floating point on Tier2 in Ret so I just threw it in imp judgment.

If the whole no downranking and % based mana usage doesnt turn out to be a big mana issue then I'll probably respec.

Edit: Linked to correct Wrath build (inc imp guardian totems).

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Originally Posted by 'ChaoticMonk',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121596# post121596

Heres my Prot. Pally and Boomkin builds. I'll only be running 1 shaman in my main group (pally+boomkin+shammy+H.Priest+Frost Mage) so I'll spec into Wrath.

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good thing you told me your sham was wrath spec (i think you put the point in the wrong skill, you put it in shift.

this is why i suck at talent trees (plus i never did a druid before)
but for druid i sort of want the 3 trees.

Pally
- i understand what you are talking about taking points away from divine guardian, if don't know why i picked it... it might be good for raiding, like when you are off tank.
- i really like pursuit of justice, but the thing is that it gives run increase which is not good when you have people on follow. I will have to keep on stopping all the time so they can catch up. When i was power lvling and my shams where 20 when they got there wolf it was a pain having my main use the 60% mount to get to stuff quick and lost them half the time.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121619#post 121619

good thing you told me your sham was wrath spec (i think you put the point in the wrong skill, you put it in shift.

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Ooppss lol fixed in post above. Was also supposed to have 2 points in guardian totems and 2 less in elemental warding.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121619#post 121619

but for druid i sort of want the 3 trees.

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I did too at the start but I just dont use it enough to justify it =/ however, if mana isnt as much of an issue as I'm thinking I might spec into it but at the moment 10% mana regen while casting sounds like alot.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121619#post 121619

Pally
- i understand what you are talking about taking points away from divine guardian, if don't know why i picked it... it might be good for raiding, like when you are off tank.

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Would be awesome for a holy pally I think if they can spec that far down that is.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121619#post 121619

- i really like pursuit of justice, but the thing is that it gives run increase which is not good when you have people on follow. I will have to keep on stopping all the time so they can catch up. When i was power lvling and my shams where 20 when they got there wolf it was a pain having my main use the 60% mount to get to stuff quick and lost them half the time.

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I wouldn't have him as master of the group unless I was in an instance/doing a group quest, in which case there wouldn't be alot of running involved. I'd probably use the Druid as a main, add priest to dps rotation and use pally to heal when it comes to regular leveling, things die too fast for the pally to do much good anyway.

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Originally Posted by 'ChaoticMonk',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121633# post121633

things die too fast for the pally to do much good anyway.

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true, but by him leading when you get agro by getting to close to a mob they attack him first. In battle grounds he is a perfect decoy cause he can take a lot of damage.

Ahh...I dont pvp so I have no experience with that but I can see where that would come in handy :)

From what I understand regarding pally changes and threat mechanics, Divine Strength is not a talent you will want to skip.

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Originally Posted by 'Aradar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121664#post1 21664

From what I understand regarding pally changes and threat mechanics, Divine Strength is not a talent you will want to skip.

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Can you explain please? ?(

they got rid of the ghost wolf removing snare/trap effects.. you can still get instant ghost wolf.

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Originally Posted by 'ChaoticMonk',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121682# post121682

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Originally Posted by 'Aradar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121664#post1 21664

From what I understand regarding pally changes and threat mechanics, Divine Strength is not a talent you will want to skip.

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Can you explain please? ?(

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Quoted from Tankspot at http://www.tankspot.com/forums/tanks...n-future.html:

"The Strength to Block Value conversion in WotLK has been increased tenfold, meaning you now get 1 SBV for every 2 STR instead of every 20. In addition, most of our primary threat abilities have been given attack power scaling, so Strength becomes an excellent threat stat as well as mitigation stat..."

Edit: From the same thread on Tankspot:

"Divine Protection Reworked - It's now effectively a 12 second mini-shield wall on a 5 minute cooldown. This is a significant buff to the Protection Paladin as a "Main Tank"."

I was not aware of this but it seems pretty nice.

Holy Monkeys! Guess I need to redo talents again :D thanks for the heads up!

Does anyone know if 1h Weapon Specialization would increase dmg done by Hammer of the righteous?

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Originally Posted by 'ChaoticMonk',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121752# post121752

Holy Monkeys! Guess I need to redo talents again :D thanks for the heads up!

Does anyone know if 1h Weapon Specialization would increase dmg done by Hammer of the righteous?

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Historically, it has been ALL damage as the talent states. I don't anticipate it changing and can't imagine a build without it.

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Originally Posted by 'Aradar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121800#post1 21800

Historically, it has been ALL damage as the talent states. I don't anticipate it changing and can't imagine a build without it.

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Someone told me that, that talent only increase damage done by melee not spell.

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Originally Posted by 'Aradar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121697#post1 21697

"Divine Protection Reworked - It's now effectively a 12 second mini-shield wall on a 5 minute cooldown. This is a significant buff to the Protection Paladin as a "Main Tank"."

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So you will not lose agro when you cast this?

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121970#post 121970

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Originally Posted by 'Aradar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121800#post1 21800

Historically, it has been ALL damage as the talent states. I don't anticipate it changing and can't imagine a build without it.

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Someone told me that, that talent only increase damage done by melee not spell.

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I've always been told the opposite and given the way it reads, it wouldn't make sense to just affect melee; however, I have no validation for either way and wouldn't put it past Blizz for it to read one way and do another.

Edit: Confirmed ALL damage: http://www.wowwiki.com/One-Handed_We...pecialization_(Paladin), http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20200#comments.

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Originally Posted by 'Drizzit',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121970#post 121970

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Aradar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121697#post1 21697

"Divine Protection Reworked - It's now effectively a 12 second mini-shield wall on a 5 minute cooldown. This is a significant buff to the Protection Paladin as a "Main Tank"."

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So you will not lose agro when you cast this?

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Again, I don't know for a fact, but Divine Protection became a non used spell once you recieved Divined Shield so it makes sense they would rework it to a usable spell and given the lack of immunity it shouldn't make you lose aggro. I mean what would be the point of reducing all damage by 50% for 12 seconds if you just lost aggro. Nothing would be attacking you anyways unless it's purely a pvp spell.

You dont lose agro anymore when you pop the shield, however, the cooldown on forberance (the debuff you get from shielding yourself) has been increased to 3min.

With the new info I'm changed my pally build

Moved 5 points from Kings and put them in Devine strength. With Kings now being a tier1 talent I'd imagine Holy pallys will be picking it up as an extra buff. But, I still dont think Devine Guardian is that great because you shouldn't be losing agro anyway.

Moved points from Imp Judge, Vindication & Crusade and put them into 1h weapon specialization.

I may move the 2 points from Pursuit of Justice and put them into imp judgement as I hear judments will have a warrior thunderclap affect.

I think this is what I am going to try out. What is the difference b/w totem of wraths +spelldamage and flame tongue (with the +45% spell damage)

shamalangdingdong

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Originally Posted by Schwarz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122084#post1 22084]I think this is what I am going to try out. What is the difference b/w totem of wraths +spelldamage and flame tongue (with the +45% spell damage)

[url='http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hEc0qcdzthect0gM

shamalangdingdong[/url]

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From what I understand, flametongue weapon and totem of wrath stack, however, flametongue totem and totem of wrath do not. The greater benefit will apply and the other one will be useless. On the other hand, flametongue totem currently reads to affect damage and healing whereas totem of wrath says spell damage. This is contrary to the new spell power in my opinion and therefore may just be an oversight.

According to mmo champion, the highest ranking of flametongue totem gives +73 to spell damag and healing for party members within 30 yards and totem of wrath increases the damage done by spell and effects by 280 for the party/raid plus 3% crit chance on enemies within 40 yards of the totem.

I read on mmo-champion and worldofraids that !h weapon spec. is going to be changed to "Increases your damage with 1h weapons" instead of the current version.

Previously I have always gone into the resto tree and tried to pick up the 5% extra crit for lighting bolts. But to do this I am taking some talents that I really don't care about. Only thing in the restro tree that I care about is the 25% less mana totems.

If we jump over to the Enhancement tree I think we can pick up some nice talents

Enhancement

We would get
3% more dodge
230 more armor from stoneskin totem (highest rank gives 1150 * .20 = 230)
10% more armor
10% more int (isn't this crit/base mana)

Bigger range on earthbind to make kitting a little easier.

I think this might be the way to go instead of the resto tree

./discuss

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Originally Posted by Griznah',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122398#post1 22398]I read on mmo-champion and worldofraids that !h weapon spec. is going to be changed to "Increases your damage with 1h weapons" instead of the current version.[/quote]

Any chance you have links for this as I've not seen that change and in my opinion it would make it a useless talent. With the changes, all of our spells will scale with AP and SP, this talent would increase neither. It would however affect the damage from Hammer of the Righteous but in my mind, not enough to sacrifice 5 points.

[quote='Schwarz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=12247 0#post122470]Previously I have always gone into the resto tree and tried to pick up the 5% extra crit for lighting bolts. But to do this I am taking some talents that I really don't care about. Only thing in the restro tree that I care about is the 25% less mana totems.

If we jump over to the Enhancement tree I think we can pick up some nice talents

[url='http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hEh0qbdstRxctZVbx0hx

Enhancement[/url]

We would get
3% more dodge
230 more armor from stoneskin totem (highest rank gives 1150 * .20 = 230)
10% more armor
10% more int (isn't this crit/base mana)

Bigger range on earthbind to make kitting a little easier.

I think this might be the way to go instead of the resto tree

./discuss

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I will still be going for the 5% crit but I can see your argument for a non tank team. However, can you dodge while casting? Is 230 armor really going to make a differance at level 80? I think 10% armor increase may be beneficial but you have to spend 20 points to get that. As for intellect, at level 70 for a shaman, it takes 80 intellect to get 1% spell crit. At level 60 it only took 59.5. I'll let you do the math for level 80 and figure out if it's worth it. :P

Figured I'd add in my proposed builds:

Paladin

These are my definate talents which leave me with 10 to go. The possibilities include Benediction depending on how mana starved the pally is based on new/reworked talents/spells, Improved Judgements depending on how the new seal/judge system plays out and timing with my holy shield/consecrate/judge/seal macro, then Seals of the Pure, Divine Intellect, Heart of the Crusader or the last point in Reckoning depending on points left over.

Resto Shaman

Not sure about the last 3 points, either Improved Water Shield, Enhancing Totems or Focused Mind. Not particularly sure about Restorative Totems and Mana Tide Totem either. I find I use Mana Tide Totem very rarely and Restorative Totems points could be used elsewhere as mentioned in the previous sentence along with Nature's Swiftness. I currently have Restorative Totems which is nice since I can only drop one Mana Spring Totem but if they now stack, this talent selection will largely depend on my healing/mana needs.

Ele Shaman

The last point for one will be ToW and for the other two I'm thinking Restorative Totems again depending on my needs.

Keep in mind, all these are based on my resto shaman uses healing wave on my pally whenever I press the heal button whereas the Ele Shaman are set to round robin healing wave on my pally. If any of my shaman need heals, they all cast chain heal on themselves with the press of one button, which makes Tidal Waves really nice if things are running tight.

Thanks for all the feed back, it is helping me so much. It sort of looks like pallies are going to be like 90-95% prot to tank stuff.

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Originally Posted by Aradar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122599#post12 2599]Figured I'd add in my proposed builds:

[url='http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=50000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000052053500014251533312321

Paladin[/url]

These are my definate talents which leave me with 10 to go. The possibilities include Benediction depending on how mana starved the pally is based on new/reworked talents/spells, Improved Judgements depending on how the new seal/judge system plays out and timing with my holy shield/consecrate/judge/seal macro, then Seals of the Pure, Divine Intellect, Heart of the Crusader or the last point in Reckoning depending on points left over.

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Why not go for Imp Devotion aura? It seems like pallies will be able to generate enough threat without using ret aura so the other choice is dev aura and +3% healing to the whole party sounds mighty fine :D

Your Ele and Resto shaman builds both linkt o the Resto build.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticMonk',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122620#p ost122620][quote='Aradar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122599 #post122599]Figured I'd add in my proposed builds:

[url='http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=50000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000052053500014251533312321

Paladin[/url]

These are my definate talents which leave me with 10 to go. The possibilities include Benediction depending on how mana starved the pally is based on new/reworked talents/spells, Improved Judgements depending on how the new seal/judge system plays out and timing with my holy shield/consecrate/judge/seal macro, then Seals of the Pure, Divine Intellect, Heart of the Crusader or the last point in Reckoning depending on points left over.

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Why not go for Imp Devotion aura? It seems like pallies will be able to generate enough threat without using ret aura so the other choice is dev aura and +3% healing to the whole party sounds mighty fine :D

Your Ele and Resto shaman builds both linkt o the Resto build.[/quote]

Main target threat has never been an issue but I want to make sure the other mobs are glued to me as much as possilbe so in that category, we have consecration, holy shield, and to a limited extent (3 targets) hammer of the righteous and avenger's shield. If those get the job done without the retribution aura, improved devotion aura may be worth looking at. This would add an additional ~1800 armor and 3% to heal as you said so it may be worthwhile.

As for my links, they are now fixed. Thanks.

Really nice Ele spec there, might look into using it myself if mana isnt as big of an issue. Not a fan of Thunderstorm?

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Originally Posted by 'ChaoticMonk',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122644# post122644

Really nice Ele spec there, might look into using it myself if mana isnt as big of an issue. Not a fan of Thunderstorm?

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Thanks. As for Thunderstorm, with a tank in my group its more of an oh s**t button as nothing should be within 10 yards of my shaman to begin with. Moreover, if something does break off the pally and attack the shammies, this doesn't exactly help me get aggro off of them. Disregarding boxers, this talent is for pvp or a 51 point aoe/mana restoration which as the cap stone talent of elemental is pretty weak. Four fire nova totems followed up by four magma totems usually does the aoe trick so I don't really want to spend a point on a situational aoe. As for the 5% mana, the choice on the ToW shaman is either that or an additional 1% crit on lighting spells, which to me is a no brainer for crit. On the two non ToW shaman, I may consider it but I'm more likely to go Restorative Totems which I'm guessing will produce less mana for that particular character but over 5 will be more beneficial.

Aradar can you post your ele spec on wowheads talent calculator. I can't get the mmo one to work.

[quote='Schwarz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=12270 6#post122706]Aradar can you post your ele spec on wowheads talent calculator. I can't get the mmo one to work.[/quote]

[url='http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=hEh0qozetMxcxZVctz0x']Here you go.[/url]

Keep in mind this is for pally/shaman team and probably not anywhere near ideal for your setup.

I'll probably spec thunderstorm though. Not for the push back but for the mana gain. 5% every 45 seconds will be great for boss fights in raid.

This will be really good if you can only use 1 pot during battles.

How is thunderstorm cast? Do you need to right click an area or is it just based on where you are standing.

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Originally Posted by 'Schwarz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=123071#post 123071

How is thunderstorm cast? Do you need to right click an area or is it just based on where you are standing.

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I read "damaging nearby enemies within 10 yards" to mean you just cast it. On a side note, the talents were updated again today and it now says 20 yards again. Time to rebuild those trees for any other changes...