Blessing of Kings .... nerf?

Printable View

09-14-2008, 06:11 PM
Haylianna

Blessing of Kings .... nerf?

Quote:

Blessing of Kings6% of base mana30 yd range
Instant cast
Places a Blessing on the friendly target, increasing total stats by 2% for 10 min. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time.

Improved Blessing of KingsRank 4

Increases the effectiveness of Blessing of Kings by an additional 8%.

So now according to wowhead.comto get the 10% bonus that we have now we need to spend 5 talents in prot tree in WotLK

I find this disturbing. I see no reason to have to spend 4 more talents then i do now for the same buff ....

your thoughts?

PS: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=s is a link to the new talent calculator that they have on the site. It looks like they are trying to force prot paladins to take reckoning to move down the tree as well.
09-14-2008, 07:35 PM
Stabface

I'm happy to spend 5 instead of 11 like I spend now... :)
09-14-2008, 07:36 PM
Haylianna

Well im looking at it from a prot pally point of view so for me its like wasting 4 talents
09-14-2008, 07:42 PM
Haylianna

Well im making a warrior tank anyways but i just thought it wasnt right to make you spend 5 for it as a prot pally over 1. Most the time paladins get it for groups anyways not themselfs
09-14-2008, 07:46 PM
Falkor

with the new abilitys and talents the warrior is going to be an extremely impressive tank!
09-14-2008, 07:58 PM
Haylianna

well i had thought about going and doing a Warrior tank and pally healer for that but i cant get a good pally build for it so ganna stick with priest healer
09-14-2008, 09:17 PM
daviddoran

A few other skills have had their number of ranks removed, so the net result is the same, and improved Righteous Fury is no longer there, cause its abilitys are part of the base skill. They want kings to be more accessible, but they cant make it too easy to get. I think it will get pretty balanced, and with the first few patches, everything will be good.
09-14-2008, 10:19 PM
Coltimar

When I was pally tanking in raids I never specced for any buffs but Sanctuary. I let the other paladins worry about buffing me ;|
09-14-2008, 11:11 PM
Stabface

Because +15% Strength for yourself is way better than +10% to all stats for everyone else, right?
09-15-2008, 12:36 AM
Gaffy

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121189#po st121189

Blessing of Kinds < Blessing of Sanc

What "kinds" of blessings are you talking about? :p

with the new changes, Kings is looking like it may only be a raid buff, while Sanc is the new tanking blessing. 3% damage reduction plus 2% mana per block is looking pretty good.
09-15-2008, 12:54 AM
voodoogriff

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Stabface',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121235#pos t121235

Because +15% Strength for yourself is way better than +10% to all stats for everyone else, right?

Ret Paladins will have both. Leaving out the PvP talents in the Ret tree leaves 10 points, and none of them are going into Holy.

Prot Paladins will still, most likely, have it. Guardians Favor, Stoicism and Imp HoJ are the only (less Pve) alternatives.

A Holy PvE Spec is going to be 52/7/12 or 54/17/0, both of which take Kings over Strength. Maybe even 51/20/0 but same deal.

And assuming 800 Str, 15% is going to mean 120 more Str, which is more threat, around 40-50 more Block Value, which in turn is around 110-120 more damage from ShotR, which is even more threat and a little bit of mitigation. I think that 15% strength for a tank is going to be worth more than the 10% Str/Agi for a melee and 10% Int/Spi for a caster (who would be receiving Might/Wisdom respectively in 1 paladin situation anyways.)

People are still going to spec Kings, regardless of their spec (in PvE).
09-15-2008, 01:34 AM
Naysayer

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'voodoogriff',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121264# post121264

A Holy PvE Spec is going to be 52/7/12 or 54/17/0, both of which take Kings over Strength. Maybe even 51/20/0 but same deal.

Um, no. lol

Sheath of Light > Bacon of Light
09-15-2008, 07:23 AM
Saevio

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Naysayer',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121287#pos t121287

Bacon of Light

Mmm Bacon.
09-15-2008, 07:42 AM
Razman

Im with Furs here I have a pally/shaman set up. Blessing of Sanct is what I use. BoK dont even use it unless to buff some passing Horde.
09-15-2008, 07:57 AM
Piros

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Naysayer',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121287#pos t121287

Sheath of Light > Bacon of Light

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=s look where sheath of light is now .... you need 43 points in ret to get it fully
09-15-2008, 09:02 AM
Coltimar

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Stabface',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121235#pos t121235

Because +15% Strength for yourself is way better than +10% to all stats for everyone else, right?

So it's better for your tank to suffer mitigation/threat to be a buff bot?
09-15-2008, 10:12 AM
Naysayer

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Piros',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121404#post12 1404

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Naysayer',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121287#pos t121287

Sheath of Light > Bacon of Light

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=s look where sheath of light is now .... you need 43 points in ret to get it fully

hahahah

owned

Good thing they nerfed it. Pumping out guaranteed Holy Shock crits and instant 12k Holy Light heals with an 8k HoT on the end of it 4tw.
09-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Stabface

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Coltimar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121419#pos t121419

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Stabface',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121235#pos t121235

Because +15% Strength for yourself is way better than +10% to all stats for everyone else, right?

So it's better for your tank to suffer mitigation/threat to be a buff bot?

STR isn't for mitigation, it's for threat.
Unless they changed the formula in WotLK the amount of block value from STR is laughable - 1 BV per 20 STR. So if you think +15% STR going to help your mitigation or block-value-generated threat then you're pretty much /fail at math.
If you have 800 base strength as a tank (probable, looking at the Naxx 10/25 man gear) then +15% is going to give you : 800 x .15 / 20 = 6 extra block value. LOL...
Of course, the extra 120 STR is going to help you generate threat through straight physical damage, not a huge amount but some yes. From what I've seen it's totally unneeded in 5 mans though, might be useful in 25's but at that point you should have another Paladin who can cast Kings so yeah you can take those points in +STR instead.
09-16-2008, 06:34 PM
ChaoticMonk

1BV for every 2 STR now :D its been made 10x better :thumbsup:
09-16-2008, 06:53 PM
Stabface

Indeed, looks like they changed it. Well, 60 BV instead of 6, but it's still not a great mitigation stat.
09-16-2008, 08:51 PM
Coltimar

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Stabface',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122211#pos t122211

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Coltimar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121419#pos t121419

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Stabface',index.php?page=Thread&postID=121235#pos t121235

Because +15% Strength for yourself is way better than +10% to all stats for everyone else, right?

So it's better for your tank to suffer mitigation/threat to be a buff bot?

STR isn't for mitigation, it's for threat.
Unless they changed the formula in WotLK the amount of block value from STR is laughable - 1 BV per 20 STR. So if you think +15% STR going to help your mitigation or block-value-generated threat then you're pretty much /fail at math.
If you have 800 base strength as a tank (probable, looking at the Naxx 10/25 man gear) then +15% is going to give you : 800 x .15 / 20 = 6 extra block value. LOL...
Of course, the extra 120 STR is going to help you generate threat through straight physical damage, not a huge amount but some yes. From what I've seen it's totally unneeded in 5 mans though, might be useful in 25's but at that point you should have another Paladin who can cast Kings so yeah you can take those points in +STR instead.

mitigation/threat is what my post said. Strength is a huge part of threat in WotLK, and it does offer some mitigation. Generally raiding Holy Paladins try to collect the majority of significant buffs as to extend their usefulness in raids. If you are a raiding, main tanking paladin you shouldn't worry about what buffs you can bring to the table as much as how much you can do your jobs 1) hold threat 2) soak damage. I'm sorry if my opinion in this matter brings out the dickhead in you, but that's life.
09-16-2008, 09:18 PM
Notabots

Alot of the "paladin tank" items have had the spell damage changed to strength, so i can see why people would object to spending their first 5 points in Bok instead of the strength talent
09-17-2008, 01:10 AM
Stabface

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Coltimar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122291#pos t122291

mitigation/threat is what my post said. Strength is a huge part of threat in WotLK, and it does offer some mitigation. Generally raiding Holy Paladins try to collect the majority of significant buffs as to extend their usefulness in raids. If you are a raiding, main tanking paladin you shouldn't worry about what buffs you can bring to the table as much as how much you can do your jobs 1) hold threat 2) soak damage.

Yes it did say that.
I'm saying it's a very poor defensive talent. This is true even with the 2:1 STR:BV change in WotLK... maybe upgrade it to 'poor' instead of 'very poor', but it's still going to be giving you less BV than some single T7 items will be giving.
I also believe it's unneeded for Threat, and having played a Paladin in beta I did not take and and did not need it for threat. I have ran both my L70 main with T4/T5/badge gear in the beginning instances, and a premade-respec-to-prot through a L80 instance without the talent. I did not have issues with holding threat off appropriately geared and non-bugged DPS. Yes, I couldn't hold aggro off the 4K DPS Rogue but that's a bug and will be addressed. I do know that most of the DPS and threat normalization is not done yet, but I still think it will NOT be needed. I see it as the counterpart to Deflection in the Retribution tree - a filler talent that allows people who aren't focusing on the tree some reason to put points into it. As Retribution spec I will definitely be picking up 5/5 Divine Strength, just like a Protection Paladin will most likely be picking up 5/5 Deflection, and Holy Paladin will most likely be picking up 5/5 Benediction.

I multibox, along with a lot of other people here, and *VERY FEW* people I know of are running multiple Paladins. And the fact is, in a 5-box, giving +10% stats to my DPS is a bigger boost to my survivability than +15% STR can ever possibly be, because the faster things die the less damage I take.
09-17-2008, 10:39 AM
Coltimar

Yeah I agree, personal attacks are pretty lame. Especially since math is the one thing I don't /fail at.
09-17-2008, 04:50 PM
TheBigBB

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Coltimar',index.php?page=Thread&postID=122521#pos t122521

Yeah I agree, personal attacks are pretty lame. Especially since math is the one thing I don't /fail at.

I'm not sure if I understand how personal attacks have anything to do with your math skills. Actually, I'm not sure how your math skills are being called into question at all. For a multibox team, the paladin's buffing ability is absolutely important. For raiding, you'd want more threat rather than more buff ability. The only real point of contention that I see going on is that Stabface doesn't think you should even talk about mitigation offered from the talent, even though everyone agrees that there is some amount of mitigation gained. Anyway, I don't see how he was being a dick about it.