can't get over 1600 in 5v5 with 4 elemental shamans + 1 heal druid or 5 elementalshamans

Hi gugys,
i am a boxer from germany so sorry for my bad english ;)

i play 5 elementalshaman with full s2 (chest,shoulders,pants,head), s4 gloves and the rest of the random pvp epics are s4 or s3.
sometimes i log out with one of my 5 shamans and invite a fried, he plays a heal druid (s3/s4 geared), to my 5v5 team.
i played around 150 games with him in the last two weeks but i cant get over 1600.
my highest ratign was 1635 i think (with 4 shamns + healdruid) and "solo" with 5 shamans 1611 ...
what woud you think about the idea to put stamina or resilence gems in the equip of my mainchar?
he is in 99% of all arenamatches the #1 target and the burstdmg of some teams (often the teams with frostmages) is to high for keeping my mainchar alive ...even if my other 3 (or 4) shamans spamm lesser healingwaves on my mainchar.
if my mainchar dies, you know, i have to switch on my first toon, but the window of my toon is very small so i cant see enoght to play like i would play if i play with my regular mainchar and my aisstmakros continue assisting my regularmainchar for a few secounds after he dies (anyone an idee why this happens with my assit macros?)

okay, enough bad english :D

Extreme

Dont worry, im much the same with around 200 games played, highest is 1647.

All i can suggest it just keep playing games, you will win some and lose some. When you've had enough for the night stop, pick it up the next day and carry on. Taking breaks doesnt hurt.

If you are using focus for your assist macros, why not setup your main char to set the focus on himself too. With my 4 shaman all my macros are identical on all 4 shaman. Works for me. Although i'll look into this again if i ever get past 1650, as most teams past this mark use tot healing a lot xD

Its ok to be German, the war is long since over, dont worry about it, all is forgiven.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 'Tizer',index.php?page=Thread&postID=114082#post11 4082

Its ok to be German, the war is long since over, dont worry about it, all is forgiven.

---

lawl, i'm 18 years old so i don't know a lot about it :D only the stuff which is teached in school or what my grandmother/-father told me about it :D

i dont use focus for assisting, i had it a few month ago but i had the same problems with and now without focus
i use /assist [target=Proxx] (exist an nodead for sure too) and than [taget=proxxy](...)[target=próxxy] and so on
gieeeef more than 255 signs/makro -.-

My advices:

1. Ditch the druid. I've tried playing with druids several times, it has never worked for me.
2. Get a paladin healer if your gear is bad. If you have good gear, you might consider other healers.
3. Gem your main char defensively with stamina and resilience, but go for mostly the same enchants as your slaves. Don't make your main's spell damage too low.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=114105#post11 4105

My advices:

1. Ditch the druid. I've tried playing with druids several times, it has never worked for me.
2. Get a paladin healer if your gear is bad. If you have good gear, you might consider other healers.
3. Gem your main char defensively with stamina and resilience, but go for mostly the same enchants as your slaves. Don't make your main's spell damage too low.

---

NO, Stick with your druid. As i see it a druid is maybe our best Solo healer to join us. But you need voice communication And he need to be really skilled at what he is doing. Make sure he have a high 2v2 team so he know how to survive burst attacks and kite it away etc.

Reasons and how a druid should suport us in 5v5 is:

Specc: He should specc with imp MOWT. all the way down to 1 point in tree of life(yes i know it sucks in pvp but dont worry about that yet), Also down to feral charge. And auto rooting in balance. Basicly a deap resto specc.

Placement: He should allwyas stay inside of your shammys untill the main fight start, Stealthed in cat. This is maybe the best reason to pick a druid healer since he is the Only healer that can start the fight with 0 focuse from dps or CC. poping out inside of you will make them use a few seconds to change to him and few teams touches my druid at all.

Sup with CC: The druid i got is one of the most skilled druid i have seen. He really knows how to use is CC and he hardly never screw up with CCing a potential kill target of mine. I had druids before that totaly fucked up my nuke by cycloning ppl randomly. Make sure that if he should suport with CC, that he do it the right way. He can at all time cyclon rogues that is stunlocking chrs. This helps alot since i normaly ignore the rogues till the very end. And he should try to follow up on your DPS with rooting the same target. So in many fightes i can see that i start nuking atarget and by the first wave of ligtening it will be a root on that target aswell, which help by making them unable to step behind a piller. But, all this takes some pracitce and voice comunications :D

Tacks with a druid healer: If they rush in as 1 tight grp he should focus on only healing untell it seems safe to add some CC. Basicly just pop into tree of life and spam heal what ever get dpsed, Tree of life normaly suck in PVP but if the only thing you should do for 10-20 sec is to stand still and spam, then 25% more healing and less mana will help alot!
If you are up against a team that uses LOS alot and max range. (you know those teams that dont wanna fight you but they like to run just inside range.. shote 1 spell and then step 1 back so you lose your attack) against those teams i have alot highter win chance since of a druid. Basicly ignore them alittle.. just pop some groundings and heal up the little dps they do, and at the point when the target you want to kill first step just slightely a bit longer forward then have your druid pop out and root him and he will be dead in second :D If they dont have to good dpsers. like 3 healer 2 dpsers then the druid can even go in and cat stun one and then follow up with a bear Bash. There is so many options with all the CC a druid is bringins on ways to encounter those teams that atleast for me seems to just be more and more of... I had huge problems with the piller humping teams.

Druid VS pally: Pallys are nice as of their auras, and their bubble against CC or DPS. But thats it. In fights against heavy dpsers the pallys i have used have had trubble healing fast enough. As a solo healing pally it only takes 1 single interrup on him, and one of your shammys will be down.. While a druid can keep your toons up so much easier. Even if he get stunded or CCed for a short time it will most likely be some healing going on your fucused shammy. I have had some better sucsses with a pally that changed all his gems to haste rating games. But apart from that. A see the druid as the best healer we can have atm.

I have noticed that i can normaly win the 5 first games, but after that its going over to a 50% win chance. and then its just going down. So rather try to goe a few games each day then to go many on one day. And allwyas start with doing 1 BG toghter before jumping into arena, thats my best addvices :D

I disagree. Druids just don't survive in 5v5, and they are vulnerable to cyclone by other druids. No bop.
Paladin has stun which is awesome for landing a first kill during the waiting game.

What you want to do is to purge someone who is showboating.. then put a frost shock + earthshocks on him. This will make him see the impending doom, which is where he will trinket to get out of the slow. This is where your paladin stuns and you move in for kill with insta cl and another shock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=114190#post11 4190

I disagree. Druids just don't survive in 5v5, and they are vulnerable to cyclone by other druids. No bop.
Paladin has stun which is awesome for landing a first kill during the waiting game.

What you want to do is to purge someone who is showboating.. then put a frost shock + earthshocks on him. This will make him see the impending doom, which is where he will trinket to get out of the slow. This is where your paladin stuns and you move in for kill with insta cl and another shock.

---

Druids are vulnerable to cyclone by other druids? Wut? How are druids more vulnerable than any other class?

If your druid (or priest or pally) is being cyclone spammed then the issue is with the boxers grounding and forcing the druid defensive. Hell, cyclone has a 20 yard range, which matches earth shock.

HoJ is resisted as much as bash, and with a druid you have roots/feral charge/bash/cyclone. Pallys are fine for the 6 second bubble, but they're hardly the end all be all of healing classes for boxers.

i reached 1685 in 5v5 with my heal druid :D so i get the s4 ring with all my shamans :D
we tryed to rech 1700 but we failed -.- 1641 now :/
i think a little bit CC is very nice, he often roots the players who comes to near to my team so i will be able to kill them or purge them while they are mounted :D
cyclone is very nice against frostmages, too ... in my opinion frostmages are the best burstdmg class, okay elemental shamans too.
so if the mage or elemental shaman is cycloned the dmg on my mainchar is pretty low until my grounding totems are ready.
i played with him for about 2 weeks and ~200games (yes we have done a lot of games today) but i think it will take more than 2 weeks to play perfectly together.
he is very skilled so i think in a few weeks we will easy get over 1700. communication and teamplay!

an other skilled s3/s4 geared healdruid (2600 in 2v2 in season 3) transfered on my realm to be my healer (i fight against his heal shaman last night, the rest of his team was 3x WL+1shadowpriest .. .argg .. "dots, more dots" ) so i have 2 skilled partners now :D


another question:
trinkets? medallion of the horde+dmg trinket or battlemaster trinket+dmg trinket or an other combination?
i think i need a +dmg trinket to do as much burstdmg as is can with my instant CL (with my gear i dont have a lot of spelldmg now :D)

I've played with both, here's my very quick run-down. I think Paladins are superior for the following reasons:

Their bubble protects them from being a quick focused target. They are also very beefy vs. melee DPS with plate + shield + stun to defend themselves. Yes the bubble can be dispelled, but it takes 2-3 seconds for that to happen. 2-3 seconds is a long time in 5v5 at the opening clash.

Their BoP protects against a focus attack on a shaman. Grounding totems + a BoP is nice. Yes, they can switch their focus target or dispell it, but again, that adds 2-3 seconds.

They can stun a target to either force a trinket or enable a kill. Druids can also stun, but they have to shift/feral charge/bash and that takes time. Paladins only need to blow a single GCD for it.

Paladins offer superior, reliable, consistent healing on a single target. Druids' healing takes a while to spool up since it is very HoT-based. NS+HT is nice, but is on a long cooldown.

However, druids really shine in situations where there isn't a ton of incoming DPS (i.e. you made a very quick early kill, as planned). It is easier to "finish up" 3-4 people with a druid than with a Pally. Innervate is nice for the lead shammy if he's been mana burned heavily. They have great longevity, heal-wise, once the first 1-2 people are dead.


My Paladin healer partner left the game a couple months ago and I've been playing with a druid healer for 8 weeks or so now. It's very frustrating. If I don't blow someone up almost instantaneously, he cannot keep all the shamans (or himself) up very long at all. 4 DPS teams or 3 melee DPS teams work us over easily unless I "go for broke" and get a lucky kill on someone in the first 2-3 seconds of the battle.

The differences seem small, but they're really huge. 2-3 seconds is the difference between killing the first 1-2 people and having 1-2 of your own shamans dead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 'Alemi',index.php?page=Thread&postID=114234#post11 4234

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=114190#post11 4190

I disagree. Druids just don't survive in 5v5, and they are vulnerable to cyclone by other druids. No bop.
Paladin has stun which is awesome for landing a first kill during the waiting game.

What you want to do is to purge someone who is showboating.. then put a frost shock + earthshocks on him. This will make him see the impending doom, which is where he will trinket to get out of the slow. This is where your paladin stuns and you move in for kill with insta cl and another shock.

---

Druids are vulnerable to cyclone by other druids? Wut? How are druids more vulnerable than any other class?

If your druid (or priest or pally) is being cyclone spammed then the issue is with the boxers grounding and forcing the druid defensive. Hell, cyclone has a 20 yard range, which matches earth shock.

HoJ is resisted as much as bash, and with a druid you have roots/feral charge/bash/cyclone. Pallys are fine for the 6 second bubble, but they're hardly the end all be all of healing classes for boxers.

---

1. Cyclone and roots have casting time so they don't work for opening kill usually.
2. Druids are sensitive to burst damage and especially when combined with an offensive cyclone on the other team. Whenever I played with druids they would just die.. Groundings go down fast against mages, druids and shaman, warlocks.. whatever.

But guys... if your druid dies in the start of the battle before you have nuked 1 down then he is doing something wrong.. He should stay stealthed insite your bunker of huge shammys + millions of totems. No teams should be able to even touch him untill 3 seconds after the first dps have landed on you..

Also.. Druid have Alot higher burst healing then a pally.. And i'm not talking NS + HT... By doing a rej + swiftmend, he can heal 5-8k in 2 sec instant cast. each 15 sec.. Sure pallyes are all fine.. but there is no reason to ditch a druid and get a pally tbh! Dont missdirect a guy like that..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 'xtobbenx',index.php?page=Thread&postID=114260#pos t114260

No teams should be able to even touch him untill 3 seconds after the first dps have landed on you..

---

Seriously? If my druid stays inactive for 3sec after the first DPS has started on us, I'm dead even faster.

People see druid buffs on us, they know we have one. If they want to focus him, they wait a little bit longer.

(Maybe the druid shouldn't buff the shamans, more that I think about it)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 'xtobbenx',index.php?page=Thread&postID=114260#pos t114260

But guys... if your druid dies in the start of the battle before you have nuked 1 down then he is doing something wrong.. He should stay stealthed insite your bunker of huge shammys + millions of totems. No teams should be able to even touch him untill 3 seconds after the first dps have landed on you..

Also.. Druid have Alot higher burst healing then a pally.. And i'm not talking NS + HT... By doing a rej + swiftmend, he can heal 5-8k in 2 sec instant cast. each 15 sec.. Sure pallyes are all fine.. but there is no reason to ditch a druid and get a pally tbh! Dont missdirect a guy like that..

---

A druid is a sitting duck inside the starting room of lord'da whatever ruis.

Belive me you will not keep someone up with rev+swiftmend if hes dps'ed by 3 players only my paladin manages that unless hes not interrupted, and if your druid starts out with rej/swiftmend it actually takes ages before rej+life bloom starts to get effective again. Druids are just as easy counterspelled as a paladin. And if the shamans fails to put real pressure on the enemy healers the priest will spam dispell the druid hots wich reduce his healing to 1k now and then.

If you play with a druid you have to focus ALOT more on los'ing alot of the damage while a paladin can heal trought alot of damage. Cyclone great vs frost mages indeed since you can first cyclone the mage then the pet wich totaly f*cks up his burst rotation but BoF works wonder since he cant be shattered aswell.

I broke 1800 rating yesterday. I'm switching between pally and druid.

I agree that the pally have superior healing, but the druid have other assets that requires your play style to differ a bit, but it may be just as good.

My druid healer have a moonkin/resto spec. He's usually staying in moonkin form when we open up. This is very nice for cyclone and helping me finnishing someone. For this to work, you need to have a hotkey ready for healing everyone in your team, including the druid.

Often the other team decides to attack the moonkin. If they do, its a big mistake. I have no problem both healing him, then nuking some melee down since they now are a bit on range from me. He make sure that he kites them a bit away from me and any LoS object so it is easyer to nuke them down. While druids is in moonkin, they can still cast cyclone and roots, so your CC will be much better even though your healing is lacking a bit.

so i my humble opinion on pallys vs druid healers:

Its all about your ability to adapt your playstyle as a boxer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 'cepheus',index.php?page=Thread&postID=114403#post 114403

so i my humble opinion on pallys vs druid healers:

Its all about your ability to adapt your playstyle as a boxer.

---

this.
Gz Zog, btw, i saw ur rating on Armory yesterday :)

One thing not mentioned that a druid has over a pali is an AOE heal that really works great if they are not focused at the start. This is situational but works great against any incoming aoe damage.

Needless to say, I have had zero success in arenas thus far, but only do the minimum games each week. Also ran 10 losses last week just to get points when my healer was out of town. Still get more points with a horrible 5v5 than a decent 2v2, lol, but it would be nice to get up to the 1600+ before wotlk.

1694 yesterday :((((
than i lost a lot of points aganinst a crap geared team with good teamplay :(((