Teams that won't open up?

So I just now had an S4:ish team that wouldn't open up. Their warrior and hunter were like 13k hp, 450+ resilience.. and their shaman was skilled with grounding totem.

They kept LOSing me for a good 20 minutes.. then I went fuck it and headed for a pillar to mix things up, which is where we lost the game.

Any ideas on how to force people to open up? They were skilled and very defensive and wouldn't fall for mundane pulling tricks by my paladin etc.

I met the very same team the game before, and I lost that one because their priest resurrected a dead team mate THROUGH a LOS object, and I couldn't get LOS to put him in combat. We were 5v4, and after they got their exploit rez in, we lost the game.. insta on cooldown.. Is this an actionable offense? Certainly felt like an exploit that I was unable to counter.

Res'ing is weird in it's rules and LoS. As for the action of res'ing, it's not a problem, you go out of combat after so many seconds, so res'ing is perfectly fine. On the counter to it, you could always have gone and melee'd the caster. (I know it would most likely been instant death, but still that's not the point.)

For the defense, just wait them out. Sooner or later they'll come to you. Go make yourself a sandwich or something if you're tired of waiting.

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Originally Posted by 'Aethon',index.php?page=Thread&postID=106678#post1 06678

For the defense, just wait them out. Sooner or later they'll come to you. Go make yourself a sandwich or something if you're tired of waiting.

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hmmmm no.
i've got a team that even came to my server and started whispering me, telling me to loose the game. absolutly amazing.

the game lasted over 40 minutes, with a bm hunter always sending arrows and LOS. nothing else. when i came up to their spot they would runnaway.

ended up winning, with a lucky move. approached and shocked the hunter with frost and flame, NS and killed him (tow cant do that :P) and the whole team started to panic. annoying stupid ppl, they wont move unless u do, so u have plenty of time to make sandwiches.

This is why i kinda feel arena have semi failed..

Played my druid as resto with a RL friend warrior, and we both had nearly full S1 gear when we faced a S3 hunter/druid. The fight ended on 18 mins when i finaly went oom but we decided to stop that combo because it was just boring! Atleast i hope they force people to act earlier in WOTLK.

When i first started arenas I was totally uncomfortable making any kind of forward advance. I just didn't feel very confident about controlling my characters. Every single match I made them come to me. I played a handful of 45+ minute games and even one match lasted an hour and 20 minutes.

Now my games are much quicker. In part because I feel like in my bracket i'm running into more aggressive teams than I was in the 1500s, but also I'm more confident in putting pressure on them, purging, and just giving them a reason to open the game. Probably losing a few games due to being overzealous, but at least I'm not waiting 15+ minutes for a rush that will end in a loss anyway.

yeah, i seem to run into teams that don't know how to handle a 5 boxer or something so they just wait.. at leat in the nagrand arena.. i had one that waited 10 mins to attack me yesterday.. 10 mins of waiting to wipe me out in 10 seconds... i actually found it funny

How do I make them open up? Charge in on mounts pom pyro a healer blast wave then watch them try scatter lol.

I meet so many teams like this now days aswell that dont want a really fight. They will stay behind pillers at all time even when they attack they will all run back and forth from them. and in the end i get them some how or they make me oom from never leaveing me alone, but also runing back and forth from pillers so i know that i'm fucked if i try my NS kill. I try to kite them out on the open, but then they just stay on range with a hunter runing in with viper sting and back... Totaly annoying. Thoes teams really really piss me off.. Who wanna fight a piller humping team. Its for sure effective but so damn boring... !

I agree it's very boring.
And I agree that arenas have failed somewhat.

I believe arena combat, which symbolizes the purest form of pvp gameplay, should favor the players who are not afraid to step in and be aggressive.
With the current arena layouts, it heavily favors defensive tactics. So the defensive team always has the initiative.. they control the fight.

An aggressive team rarely controls the fight.


If it means that some classes' burst damage needs to be nerfed, so be it. I just don't like the concept of pillar humping.


Let's hope for some more interesting arena play in WOTLK.

When im out of combat im prowling around near the pillar edges, hoping for one to show himself in LOS for a second. Pounce, followed by root or bash usually does the trick. Then its just the reactiontime of my boxing partner (4 ele shamie) against my enemies dispelling/trinketting out.

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Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=107554#post10 7554

I believe arena combat, which symbolizes the purest form of pvp gameplay, should favor the players who are not afraid to step in and be aggressive.

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lol
in other words: every multiboxer with ns should be top 5v5.

arena favor those who know how to use what surrounds them. if blizzard comes up with an arena without los objects, we would win every single one.

i just cant handle those little los objects, like lordaeron tomb in the middle. thats the most f*******ng horrible spot in arenas.

blades edge arena is also the queen of los, but u gotta live with it honestly. purest form of pvp is to know when to attack and not attack because u have more gear and more burst.

it just came to my mind. any player inside an arena and close to an object like a pillar and not attacking for more than 1 minute would receive a dot ticking 5k dmg per second. NOW THAT WOULD BE FUN!

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Originally Posted by 'merujo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=107727#post1 07727

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=107554#post10 7554

I believe arena combat, which symbolizes the purest form of pvp gameplay, should favor the players who are not afraid to step in and be aggressive.

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lol
in other words: every multiboxer with ns should be top 5v5.

arena favor those who know how to use what surrounds them. if blizzard comes up with an arena without los objects, we would win every single one.

i just cant handle those little los objects, like lordaeron tomb in the middle. thats the most f*******ng horrible spot in arenas.

blades edge arena is also the queen of los, but u gotta live with it honestly. purest form of pvp is to know when to attack and not attack because u have more gear and more burst.

it just came to my mind. any player inside an arena and close to an object like a pillar and not attacking for more than 1 minute would receive a dot ticking 5k dmg per second. NOW THAT WOULD BE FUN!

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Well if you would have read more than the first lines of my post, you might have encountered this statement:

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If it means that some classes' burst damage needs to be nerfed, so be it. I just don't like the concept of pillar humping.

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Meaning that the NS+EM combo, POM Pyro and other combos may need to be made impossible by remodeling the talent trees.

The mid 1600 up to the high 1700s is filled with these teams.

Triple healers/rezzers, oh the agony.

Here's my strat. The 4 Shaman + healer group = drop the totems and tank and spank. The other team is only human, and theres 5 of them and only 2 on your team. I just sit back and dont even move. I drop totems go into GW and dont move. When I run across these teams sometimes I even surf the web and post on here.

I know my game plan. Nuke the first idiot on these defensive teams dumb enough to come out. The weakness of these teams is the amount of discipline it takes from 5 people. Almost impossible in WoW. I have also found that not moving plays with their minds. I have even changed a diaper and taken a phone call against teams like this and WON!= Fark em! I meet on my terms or don't queue. 4 fights an hour sucks!...but believe me these teams are used to fast wins. Other teams they face will not have the patience and will simply fall right into they're strat.

I used to run with a premade on Bloodlust and the leader made a point when we played other premades. Hold 3 nodes or just 2 but make them remember you aren't going to let them get away with an easy win. Next time they'll take the next bg that pops. Now after like 3 months of doing this every night at 9pm...people learned and we never played another premade...actually it felt like we never played anyone...premades would just leave and people would enter a 5 cap = gg.

The point Im trying to make is realize you are in control. Wait for them to make a mistake and punish them. When games take 20min. you're screwing them. They dont get your points, they dont get to play others...think of how this affects the 5 people you're playing against...and what they're going to say next time they're asked to arena.

There is no greater loss in the arena then when you cause it. A missed nuke and patience are the cause of my demise 90% of the time. Missed nukes are part of the game. Not having patience continues to be the biggest hurdle in arena for me. Logging in to play arena without patience is asking to lose.

BTW. Im at 1818 atm and plan on giving it my most PATIENT effort to make 1950 this week. Wish me luck and dont let this TARD teams take your points.

Good luck. :)
My next goal is 1800.

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Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=107786#post10 7786

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'merujo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=107727#post1 07727

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=107554#post10 7554

I believe arena combat, which symbolizes the purest form of pvp gameplay, should favor the players who are not afraid to step in and be aggressive.

---

lol
in other words: every multiboxer with ns should be top 5v5.

arena favor those who know how to use what surrounds them. if blizzard comes up with an arena without los objects, we would win every single one.

i just cant handle those little los objects, like lordaeron tomb in the middle. thats the most f*******ng horrible spot in arenas.

blades edge arena is also the queen of los, but u gotta live with it honestly. purest form of pvp is to know when to attack and not attack because u have more gear and more burst.

it just came to my mind. any player inside an arena and close to an object like a pillar and not attacking for more than 1 minute would receive a dot ticking 5k dmg per second. NOW THAT WOULD BE FUN!

---

Well if you would have read more than the first lines of my post, you might have encountered this statement:

Quote:

---

If it means that some classes' burst damage needs to be nerfed, so be it. I just don't like the concept of pillar humping.

---

Meaning that the NS+EM combo, POM Pyro and other combos may need to be made impossible by remodeling the talent trees.

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right. then, whos gonna be agressive if u take the agressive talents from them :|

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Originally Posted by 'Elektric',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108123#pos t108123

The mid 1600 up to the high 1700s is filled with these teams.

Triple healers/rezzers, oh the agony.

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in my bg: triple melee, 2 healers/rezzers. oh the pain.

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Originally Posted by 'merujo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108515#post1 08515

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Elektric',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108123#pos t108123

The mid 1600 up to the high 1700s is filled with these teams.

Triple healers/rezzers, oh the agony.

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in my bg: triple melee, 2 healers/rezzers. oh the pain.

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triple healer, or triple melee I find easier than mage/lock/rogue/hunter + healer. I generally can't live through the counterspell/spell lock/sap/blind/intimidation without it going 4v5 against my favor.

It's a double edged sword against teams that won't open up. Sometimes I play a little more aggressive against teams like this because giving them too much time to coordinate is bad. i.e . sap on my healer (usually followed by a poly), intimidate shagg 4, blind shagg 3, counterspell-silence shagg 2, spell lock main shagg when tries to heal. Followed by an aoe fear when all the initial cc wears off means I get little damage, and have to play MASS defensive at the start to have a shot.

Against anything less than 4 dps, I play the waiting game. Eventually, they'll make a mistake and you can make it 4v5 in your favor.

Its a trend now. I've faced many, many triple melee teams, and when they have rogue, warrior, enc shaman, its as painfull as a mage, lock, rogue, if not worst.
The fast speed attacks tottally owns me, plus i dont have a paladin for conc aura, what makes it even worst. Its impossible to stop them, only if i get lucky with fire nova and NS, but most times, one is blinded, other is stun locked, its kinda difficult.

having pvp trinkets on all, and then cast ns is a possiblity. anyways, they come, cast cyclone on ur healer, and nuke u to death, along with fears... some ppl really know their lesson against boxers :)

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Originally Posted by 'merujo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=111148#post1 11148

Its a trend now. I've faced many, many triple melee teams, and when they have rogue, warrior, enc shaman, its as painfull as a mage, lock, rogue, if not worst.
The fast speed attacks tottally owns me, plus i dont have a paladin for conc aura, what makes it even worst. Its impossible to stop them, only if i get lucky with fire nova and NS, but most times, one is blinded, other is stun locked, its kinda difficult.

having pvp trinkets on all, and then cast ns is a possiblity. anyways, they come, cast cyclone on ur healer, and nuke u to death, along with fears... some ppl really know their lesson against boxers :)

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I play with a priest too, and we find melee teams infinitely easier than the new 4 dps trend on our BG - bm hunter/shadow priest/affliction lock/frost mage/insert random healer here. I usually take out the enhancement shaman first since he's the biggest threat to my healer, and to my grounding totems - and with Toughness he's a pain in the ass to slow down doing the melee dance around you.

Against the 4 dps team, they won't open up on me for the longest time until such time that I'm bored, and then when they do, the battle takes less than 2 minutes. Mass dispel spam to get rid of bloodlust, silence/poly/intimidate/deathcoil/fear/aoe fear/spell lock/counterspell all around. I literally can't stay alive long enough to do any damage to them. UA prevents any dots from being dispelled, I can't reground all that crap fast enough. And if they're a horde team, I'll get a torrent on me at some point.

Add in the fact that most locks and hunters with this comp use a /target Tremor Totem, /petattack macro - it's a really tough comp. I can't charge at them in Nagrand or Blade's Edge, since they'll run or I'll hit a GD frost aura trap (that goes through pillars), get frost novaed, and they can just instant attack me while they chain los me. It's driving me bonkers trying to figure out how to deal with that comp - or forcing them to open up faster. It's even worse if said random healer is a shaman. Bloodlust/Heroism + TBW + Shadow Priest + Icy Veined Mage = owie.

The new 4 DPS team mentioned above is getting slowly close to a counter comp for our setup :) I'm finding more and more teams that are able to penetrate all the weaknesses of quad shamans, while still pulling out amazing DPS.

Thunderstorm INC! TS will give us a way to "force players out of their hiding places. TS will knock people back away from you and you can kill one or two before they even land. If it goes live.. I will be amazed. Even though they have buffed it in beta. It will be on PTRs "soon" And will be nice to test it in arenas.

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=111294#post11 1294

The new 4 DPS team mentioned above is getting slowly close to a counter comp for our setup :) I'm finding more and more teams that are able to penetrate all the weaknesses of quad shamans, while still pulling out amazing DPS.

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Kind of makes you wish for the days when 4 dps teams were laughed at or when BM Hunters and Spriests were laughed at in 5s. 4 dps teams with a hunter/mage combo are tough regardless, but the 4 caster dps with loads of cc are the bane of my existence. And I'm retarded and play them 5-6 times in a row to win one and loose the others so I end up loosing more than I gain, because I'm a stubborn asshat.

Double hunter/ele shaman/sub rogue + pally is 2066 on my BG. The rogue is probably the best rogue I've EVER played against - and hands down carries the team. Kick + Deadly Throw + Torrent on my healer, all while managing to cycle through shammies gouging, blinding, and keeping poisons up all over my shams. Insane team, with insane burst.

Just ended up remaking my team. We'll face them soon enough.