Finer points of 1 Pal + 4 Sham vs. 5 Sham

Hey guys,
With RAF, I'm taking the dive into trying to box 5 man. I've got everything set up and ready to go; but I haven't really seen much discussion about 1 Pally + 4 Shaman vs. 5 Shaman as it relates to leveling with RAF.

Since I'm guessing most people will find questing to be the fastest to 60, what do you guys think? Which way is going to be the fastest? I assume 5 shammie is the easiest... Am I stupid for trying to 5 box right away? I've got the hardware so I'm not terribly worried about that aspect of it.

Thanks a ton!

Don't do it with regards to leveling. It'll be about the same, although the 60-70 experience is probably a little easier with a paladin to tank instances, but kiting works too.
Think about end-game goals.. if you love PvP, definitely roll 5 shammies. My pally is practically useless in BGs beyond buffs, occasional heal, a stun every now and then, a consecrate for distraction, and as a steady meatshield.

I run a paladin and four shaman for ease of instances. I have a 70 druid I can swap in for boomkin aura when they all hit 70. =P

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Originally Posted by '-silencer-',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104026#post104026

Don't do it with regards to leveling. It'll be about the same, although the 60-70 experience is probably a little easier with a paladin to tank instances, but kiting works too.
Think about end-game goals.. if you love PvP, definitely roll 5 shammies. My pally is practically useless in BGs beyond buffs, occasional heal, a stun every now and then, a consecrate for distraction, and as a steady meatshield.

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You don't need to kite until you hit heroic/70 instances anyway - with a few exceptions, elementals will be plenty for your tanking purposes and most of the time you don't need them :)

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Originally Posted by 'Fuzzyboy',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104152#pos t104152

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Originally Posted by '-silencer-',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104026#post104026

Don't do it with regards to leveling. It'll be about the same, although the 60-70 experience is probably a little easier with a paladin to tank instances, but kiting works too.
Think about end-game goals.. if you love PvP, definitely roll 5 shammies. My pally is practically useless in BGs beyond buffs, occasional heal, a stun every now and then, a consecrate for distraction, and as a steady meatshield.

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You don't need to kite until you hit heroic/70 instances anyway - with a few exceptions, elementals will be plenty for your tanking purposes and most of the time you don't need them :)

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Just so I'm clear, you think that the benefits of 5 shammies in PVP outweighs the benefits of having a Pally in PVE?

I've been away from the game for a few months, before I left I spent most of my time just farming and doing AV. But if I'm going to 5-box, I see myself spending a lot of time clearing instances - it's one of the big draws to multi-boxing for me.

Thanks for the responses guys :D

I just hit level 50 with my druids this morning and when they get 60 I think I'm going to go ahead and roll 5 shamans. I leveled 5 shamans to around 30 before RAF and adored it! I also had another team that had a Prot pally as the main. Pally/Shamans bad for PVP good for PVE (instances). 5 Shamans and the stackable health totem is just insane for keeping life juice running through you!

I do want a pally for tanking instances on occasion and perhaps using it as a power leveler in the future so what I plan on doing is level 10 Shamans to 59 and insta level a Pally with the level gifts. That way I can swap around whenever I need to. Not sure if that helps or not.

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Originally Posted by 'iceyone',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104153#post 104153

Just so I'm clear, you think that the benefits of 5 shammies in PVP outweighs the benefits of having a Pally in PVE?

I've been away from the game for a few months, before I left I spent most of my time just farming and doing AV. But if I'm going to 5-box, I see myself spending a lot of time clearing instances - it's one of the big draws to multi-boxing for me.

Thanks for the responses guys :D

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I don't, no. Having that paladin is really fun for pve, and you can do pretty much anything. Having the fifth shaman in a bg is often overkill.

Now, having said that, after I get my 1 paladin 4 shaman team to 70, I'm going to level my other shaman up and have both. I said it was overkill, I didn't say it wasn't fun. :P

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Originally Posted by 'BobGnarly',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104380#po st104380

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Originally Posted by 'iceyone',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104153#post 104153

Just so I'm clear, you think that the benefits of 5 shammies in PVP outweighs the benefits of having a Pally in PVE?

I've been away from the game for a few months, before I left I spent most of my time just farming and doing AV. But if I'm going to 5-box, I see myself spending a lot of time clearing instances - it's one of the big draws to multi-boxing for me.

Thanks for the responses guys :D

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I don't, no. Having that paladin is really fun for pve, and you can do pretty much anything. Having the fifth shaman in a bg is often overkill.

Now, having said that, after I get my 1 paladin 4 shaman team to 70, I'm going to level my other shaman up and have both. I said it was overkill, I didn't say it wasn't fun. :P

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That's interesting. I suppose with RAF, I can start with 1 pally / 4 sham, and if I decide around level 30 that it's not for me, I'd have plenty of free levels to use to bring up a fifth sham quickly.

Thanks again for all the help! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by '-silencer-',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104026#post104026

My pally is practically useless in BGs beyond buffs, occasional heal, a stun every now and then, a consecrate for distraction, and as a steady meatshield.

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I respec my pally to holy for BGs. You really only need one heal macro:
/cast [help,nodead][target=targettarget,help,nodead] Flash of Light

Don't expect to PvP effectively with a prot ANYTHING. In the 60-69 bgs I did fine with a prot pally and a bunch of ele shammies toted around for things like flag capping, but with Righteous Fury dispellable and inability to use bubble while flag carrying, and the fact that ghost puppies run faster.... there's really no reason to gimp yourself.

Having the pally stun available when something gets up in your face is nice -- just enough time to blow them up before they can line of sight or run away.

Dispels are also nice if you were slow on refreshing grounding totem.



Last but not least, if you ever decide to level up another team, or even just one more shaman, having a 70 prot pally boosting is easysauce. :)

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104397#post 104397

Don't expect to PvP effectively with a prot ANYTHING.

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Awhile back I tried prot on my undead warrior in pvp. The trick was - I wore full pvp gear, so >400 resil, tons of attack power and crit, etc. Melee classes couldn't even touch me. Could kill 2 MS warriors at once. Rogues, BM hunters, a joke. Casters were somehow only slightly harder to kill. It was interesting. Other than that, yeah prot sucks

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Originally Posted by 'iceyone',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104153#post 104153

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Originally Posted by 'Fuzzyboy',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104152#pos t104152

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Originally Posted by '-silencer-',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104026#post104026

Don't do it with regards to leveling. It'll be about the same, although the 60-70 experience is probably a little easier with a paladin to tank instances, but kiting works too.
Think about end-game goals.. if you love PvP, definitely roll 5 shammies. My pally is practically useless in BGs beyond buffs, occasional heal, a stun every now and then, a consecrate for distraction, and as a steady meatshield.

---

You don't need to kite until you hit heroic/70 instances anyway - with a few exceptions, elementals will be plenty for your tanking purposes and most of the time you don't need them :)

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Just so I'm clear, you think that the benefits of 5 shammies in PVP outweighs the benefits of having a Pally in PVE?

I've been away from the game for a few months, before I left I spent most of my time just farming and doing AV. But if I'm going to 5-box, I see myself spending a lot of time clearing instances - it's one of the big draws to multi-boxing for me.

Thanks for the responses guys :D

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Actually no, that's not my point. I was simply pointing out that you shouldn't go with a paladin if you don't feel like it, just to be able to pve. Shamans can pve just fine and I think about every heroic has been done with 5 shammies.

However! There are other things to consider. As Vyndree pointed out, going from 1 pala + 4 shaman to 5 shaman is easy, it's another matter the other way around. Also, you can pvp just fine with four shaman or 4 shaman + paladin (if you're doing arena you'll need a healer anyway).

I would go with paladin + 4 shammies if I was starting from scratch, especially if I was unsure of what to choose. If you're RAF'ing you could actually go with paladin + 4 shammies and a 5th shammie on gift levels. Ultimately it's a matter of what you feel like playing - both combos are viable, but if you're unsure I'd advise you to go the paladin route.

Paladin tanking sucks at early levels. Outland is where the gearing really lets paladins tank better. Because of this, and with RAF, I'd suggest starting out with 5 shaman. You learn the class, and everything's a bit easier when you have all the same class. At any time, should you feel the need for a true tank, gift some levels to your paladin, and have at it. You can alternate gifting levels to the paladin and the shaman, and if you refer 2 accounts from your main account, they can both keep up and be the same level as your other 4 shammies. Depending on how you want to refer your accounts, you could also make a druid with gifted levels, and try druid tanking, tree healing, and moonkin dps :) That gives you lots of options.

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Originally Posted by 'daviddoran',index.php?page=Thread&postID=104714#p ost104714

Paladin tanking sucks at early levels. Outland is where the gearing really lets paladins tank better. Because of this, and with RAF, I'd suggest starting out with 5 shaman.

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I would argue pally tanking sucks until Holy Shield.

I never pulled aggro off of my tank once I got Holy Shield. +damage is not necessary at low levels since pretty much NOBODY has +damage gear at low levels. ;) You need to give you pally a couple seconds of lead time (if you watch my videos you'll notice I start off as a "clicker" at the beginning before using buttons to make sure it's just my pally building aggro), but nothing excessive. Once you get Avenger's Shield, that's when you can just all-out fling your shield and start the Chain lightning right away.