4xHunters and 4xShaman - PvP Comparisons (BG only for now)

Background: I am a long-time 4xShaman multiboxer who has been reasonably competitive in arenas (1700-1750 with a less than well-geared healer) and very successful in battlegrounds, where I have > 92% win record in AB, AV, and EotS and an 81% win record in WSG. (Solo BG win percentages for Horde are significantly less than that). I have recently completed leveling up a 4xHunter team with a Priest. (Priest ignored for this comparison, since he's dead in about 0.0023 seconds most of the time if he's in the BG)

Gearing (Shamans): Mix of S4+S3 gear, with the odd S2 piece thrown in where rating requirements are high (e.g. shoulders/weapon). About 1000-1050 spell damage, 350-400 resilience, 10.5k health pre-buffed. Talent setup is standard 40/21 NS Elemental build.

Gearing (Hunters): Freshly-minted-L70s. They have Valanos Longbows, other blue quest/instance gear, and the 4-piece Stalker�s gear (starter PvP rep-based items). 8500 HP, 120 resilience, mediocre attack power due to the Stalker�s gear. Talent setup is heavy Beast Mastery with other points in Survival and Marksmanship (picking up Aimed Shot, GftT, Trap Mastery, and enabling 41yd shots).



I wanted to compare and contrast my very early experiences with both setups in BGs, and intend to add/revise this document as I get more experience and gear with the hunters. It�s an unfair comparison, and I will try to counterbalance that some by being a little �optimistic� about the 4xHunter setup given their gear situation and my relatively short experience with them at L70. I will try to avoid �theorycrafting� too much without backing it up with some real BG experience. I will try to divide the comparisons up into several common BG scenarios:



BG Situation-- Taking a defended node with 4 or less people:

Advantage: Tie

The hunters do pretty well here. They have some nice perks with being able to track humanoids, sick pets on a target from long range, and do some nice ranged DPS on people who may be capping a flag. Stealthers can present somewhat of a challenge while a flag cap is going on, but staggered use of traps can allow double-CC on a single stealthed class who is harassing the team while 4xCaps are being attempted.

Shamans are also very competent, although they do best if a full totem farm is deployed. They obviously have good ranged DPS potential, and clearly have the edge if taking a node becomes a protracted battle. They can stand at the flag, alternate heal and DPS, and deal with a wave of rezzers much easier than hunters.



BG Situation-- Taking a defended node with 4+ people

Advantage: Shamans

The shamans seem to do better with larger numbers of opponents due to their ability to heal and play defensively with totems. Trying to assault a larger group of opponents generally results in some number of them coming out away from the node, and the shamans have a clear advantage with dealing with people infiltrating the group at melee range.



BG Situation-- Holding a choke point

Advantage: Hunters

The hunters are amazing at being able to defend a choke point (e.g. AV bases and narrow passages, the EotS bridges, WSG tunnel) if they have the time to lay down an appropriate series of traps. A well-laid line of traps can result in 60+ yards of 60% snare for anyone going through (with chance to root, if talented). Combined with a nice range and pets, it is possible to fend off very large numbers of people. AV experience has shown that hunters do very well on base defense with this tactic. Shamans can slow some small numbers of people using frost shocks and earthbind totems, but the hunter traps are far superior for slowing large numbers of people over a large area. Both teams can be overwhelmed by very large numbers (10-15) people, however.



BG Situation-- Back-capping an AV tower:

Advantage: Shamans

Both teams do well against light defense, obviously. Shamans have the clear advantage due to their ability to deliver full DPS at point blank range. Tricks like EM+NS+CL and Fire Elemental totems provide extra oomph when you really, really, really need to retake a tower.



BG Situation-- Being harassed by a rogue while traveling:

Advantage: Shamans

Ghost wolf allows much better travel to avoid being chain sapped by a rogue.



BG Situation-- 1 Melee character attacking your group:

Advantage: Hunters

Traps, pet stuns and instant arcane shots are all handy tools. Rogues are not nearly as troublesome because the physical damage pets/hunters can do is not mitigated by Cloak of Shadows. Non-stealthing melees can be concussive shot effectively or trapped to provide breathing room for the kill. Hunters must be mobile or spread out for maximum effectiveness.



BG Situation-- Multiple Melee characters attacking your group:

Advantage: Shamans

2 or more melees infiltrating the Hunters gets to be pretty ugly. I have no doubt this will improve with gear (just like it did with Shammies), but shaman have great AoE damage tools and healing ability to slowly turtle through the damage. More work is needed with Feign Death+Pets to see if that strategy can buy enough time for a victory.



BG Situation-- Mass battles in open terrain, or most types of AV offense where the team is part of a larger force:

Advantage: Hunters

Being able to fire away at 41 yards will keep you from ever becoming the other team�s �TAB-target�. Hunter shots and autoattacks are much less flashy than Shaman lightning and tend to be overlooked as well. Hunters can lay down traps as they advance, providing an easy escape route if the tide of the battle turns and a retreat is in order. Pets provide a nice way to deal with incoming people who are closing distance with your side as well as people who want to break through your front lines.



On the whole, it�s been fun so far. While I definitely feel gear limitations, I can see that the hunters playstyle will be very different than shammies in many ways. Casters are very fun to burn down, while plate-wearers can be a little tougher (very opposite of shamans, to be expected). Hunter burst damage can be significant, but there are some tradeoffs associated with not playing a hybrid class that can heal. Pets are very handy but are definitely needed to deal with fear-bombing classes and melee classes infiltrating your team.



More later as I put more hours under my belt:

(reserved)

nice work Boylston :)

Great write-up. My 4x RAF Hunter team is just a sliver away from 60 with the 5th (old main at level 66) waiting for them to catch up. I have a lot of experience playing my solo hunter pre-BC, but so much has changed since then and I'm not entirely sure what to expect. The strenght of a hunter team in BG's as I see it would be the ability to put a good amount of burst DPS on a target instantly, before you are even within their range.

In anycase, I'm pretty sure I'm going to need have much better movement control of my hunters vs. the shamans. Standing in one spot with the followers all lumped together probably isn't going to be a workable strategy.

It is very nice to be able to instant-cast someone at 41 yds range, no doubt. That 2-3 seconds that I would normally spend winding up a spell and waiting for it to land with the Shamans is gone. I still want to play with some nice big suprise/bursty combos, like 4xAimed Shots followed by an instant arcane.

Unfortunately, a lot of the uber-DPS-maximizing techniques (e.g. proper steady shot rotations) for PvE don't hold up too well while multiboxing. With even the slightest bit of lag, I can't really do much better than "hit steady shot every so often".

I really, really like being able to do some mana-less DPS as well. Nothing sucks more than being OOM on my shammies after a long series of fights.

Interesting. I was trying to decide if I wanted to do another hunter team to 10-box hunters. I'm interested in seeing how your progress goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Boylston',index.php?page=Thread&postID=123721#pos t123721

Unfortunately, a lot of the uber-DPS-maximizing techniques (e.g. proper steady shot rotations) for PvE don't hold up too well while multiboxing. With even the slightest bit of lag, I can't really do much better than "hit steady shot every so often".

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You probably already know, but in Wrath (perhaps even in next patch) Steady Shot will not stop Auto Shot from firing. So no timing is necessary.

I am so glad I read this =)

I have 4 70 shamans with the same gear as you, and 4 hunters @ 66 now working up to 70.

I have had more fun, even at lvl 61-63 in AV than I have had in a long time =) it can be REALLY fun to stealth and watch your 4 pets go crazy on a poor mage / priest / lock and then multishot them and their buddies when they get close enough

I have had a GREAT time on my huntards so far, and I look forward to more of your writeups =) Im catching up, but wont be able to play much before the xpansion XD

-Dan

4x Feign Death followed by putting pets on a rogue/melee with the pet stun has been very effective for me in BGs. I immediately drive all hunters backwards and plink away and it ususally kills them. In some ways, it's a nice refreshing change. I am learning to deal with multiple melees a bit better too with a combo of frost traps.

Capping a node with 1-3 people frozen in traps is hilarious... although I tend to die soon afterwards. :(

I am considering running my Holy Pally as a lead instead of the priest for added durability and some top-off ability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Ajuga',index.php?page=Thread&postID=123916#post12 3916

You probably already know, but in Wrath (perhaps even in next patch) Steady Shot will not stop Auto Shot from firing. So no timing is necessary.

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This will be awesome. I am using Arcane Shot a lot in PvP though... It's a really awesome "41-yard shock+purge", even if the purge part won't last much longer.