Woot! Mounts at level 20 for 5 gold, epic land at lvl 40, 150% speed normal flyers at level 60 in 3.2!!!

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06-15-2009, 11:28 AM
Duese

Quote:

These changes "cheapen" your experience? Really? C'mon. Be serious. The only thing that "cheapens" your experiences is your own mind. A newbie getting cheaper mounts has NO EFFECT ON YOU OR YOUR MEMORY of your experiences. That's the sniveling of a spoiled brat, I'd like to think the members of this forum are better than that - leave that kind of selfishness to the WoW general forum, where it belongs. You'd really deny new players a faster route to 80, where 95% of the community is, just for your nostalgia for a game that doesn't exist anymore? Really?

How about, this is discouraging me from leveling another toon, because the sense of accomplishment that I would get out of it is greatly diminished due to the fact that it is so easy. Was it easy before? Yes (which is why these changes are stupid), but it was an investment. Getting your Epic flyer was an investment, now it is going to be a luxury set aside for mains and gathering toons.

I don't understand how you can call the people who are against this change the selfish ones. Is it not selfish that people are constantly bitching and complaining about how lvling is so boring and how it's so time consuming wanting blizzard to make it easier and the whiners getting their way? People are going to bitch and complain until they get everything handed to them on a silver platter and then they will complain that it's not on a gold platter.

Yes. I will deny players a faster route to 80, not because I'm a jerk, but because some people don't deserve it. I'm sorry, but if you just started playing a month ago and you are lvl 80, there is a problem. But hey, if you want to call me a "spoiled brat" go ahead because saying that nostalgia is the only reason why people dislike this change is as ignorant as saying it that people should just start with lvl 60-70-80 characters. "Hai guyz! I'm rdy 2 raid! Wut r bandages?!"

Hell, it's like right now with what they are doing to ulduar. We've spent the last month bashing our heads against Mimiron and Yogg Saron. After they made the changes to Mimiron (3 weeks ago?) we literally walked in the next night and 1-shot him. The changes they made to Yogg Saron this week are the same boat. We were having trouble getting through phase 1 but we were able to make it into phase 2 every few attempts. Now after the changes they made, walked right in and was consistently getting to phase 2-3 and ended up killing him on the first night we attempted him after the nerfs.

Are you going to tell me that making things easier has no effect on your sense of accomplishment? If so, I'm going to call bull shit on that or else I will call you the selfish one. "Sense of accomplishment" is what we get in this game. Hell, right now, we have 1 boss left for our 10 man Champion of Ulduar title. This is weak to say the least.
06-15-2009, 11:57 AM
Tonuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Duese',index.php?page=Thread&postID=208838#post20 8838

Yes. I will deny players a faster route to 80, not because I'm a jerk, but because some people don't deserve it.

I think that when Blizzard launched WoW, they had this mindset to some degree, although IMO they were keen on not being as bad as EQ. But there is a monetary concern for them, in that they've got way more people playing than they probably had ever expected, and lots of money coming in as a result. So they'll probably err on the side of profitability when making decisions about this. For them, it isn't about whether a player "deserves" to get a particular trinket in their video game. It's more about thinking "what will get people to continue to play?" Making the 1-60/70 game easier to level through, so that people are able to get to 80 more quickly and start doing heroics or raids, is one way of keeping them playing.

I'm not saying that as a criticism of Blizzard ("omg they sold out") but it's just realistic. They've taken the practical approach, and I think it's a good idea to help people zip through those low levels as quickly and pain-free as possible. At some point, it wouldn't surprise me if they make it so that getting to level 40 takes just a few hours, or even allowing players to start at 20 or 40. Purists and players who loved that low-level game will feel betrayed, but they won't stop playing over it. People who otherwise might grow bored or frustrated and quit, will stay instead. It just makes sense for them to do this.
06-15-2009, 12:14 PM
Duese

Quote:

Making the 1-60/70 game easier to level through, so that people are able to get to 80 more quickly and start doing heroics or raids, is one way of keeping them playing.

But wouldn't they want it to take longer to get up in level since it will keep people playing longer?
06-15-2009, 01:42 PM
gitcho

Quote:

Yes. I will deny players a faster route to 80, not because I'm a jerk, but because some people don't deserve it.

<my 2c> I most definitely would not have gotten back into the game (quit before BC) and would not be 5 boxing if it weren't for RAF and a nerfed 1-70 - and i'm sure there are many others like me. Finally hitting 80 felt SOOO good, but i'm not doing it again. Perhaps the trip nerf to 80 isn't entirely aimed at new players </my 2c>
06-15-2009, 02:20 PM
Tonuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Duese',index.php?page=Thread&postID=208844#post20 8844

But wouldn't they want it to take longer to get up in level since it will keep people playing longer?

I don't believe that it does, and I suspect that Blizzard doesn't either. There are a lot of people at max level, and thus there are opportunities for both new players, as well as players rolling alts, to group and raid once they're 80. The impression I get is that the options for grouping pre-70 are very slim, and the options for raiding pre-80 are practically nonexistent. I doubt that more than a handful of people are interested in the journey; most are leveling so that they can get to 70 for groups or to 80 for the rep grind, arena and/or raids. Dragging out the pre-70 leveling grind (or not shortening it, anyway) may keep people from wanting to start playing, start playing again, or continue playing.

People tend to crowd at the top level in most MMORPGs, and that's been particularly so for WoW since the leveling grind was pretty easy to begin with. Anything they can do to make the trip to 80 faster will result in more people continuing to play, IMO.
06-16-2009, 02:33 AM
CavScout

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Duese',index.php?page=Thread&postID=208838#post20 8838

I don't understand how you can call the people who are against this change the selfish ones.

I can if the reason someone offers for being against the changes is simply because they, themselves, had to do it a harder way. Every expansion or level-cap raise or new content makes work put in before less valuable. When TBC came out, all our effort in Naxx felt like wasted time because people were soon getting equivalent gear from quests or early instances in TBC content. It's just the way it works. You're either doing something because you want to and enjoy it or you're probably doing it for the wrong reason.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a DK-like options (starting out mid-levels with mid-level gear) for the basic classes. Gridning up is simply grinding up.

Quote:

But wouldn't they want it to take longer to get up in level since it will keep people playing longer?

Not if folks get bored and quit. And this is especially true for new players how friends are in the end-game.
06-16-2009, 11:30 AM
Multibocks

this shit needs to come out now, my druid and rogue group wants it.. NO, DEMANDS IT! GIV!
06-17-2009, 12:12 PM
Gadzooks

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Duese',index.php?page=Thread&postID=208838#post20 8838

Quote:

These changes "cheapen" your experience? Really? C'mon. Be serious. The only thing that "cheapens" your experiences is your own mind. A newbie getting cheaper mounts has NO EFFECT ON YOU OR YOUR MEMORY of your experiences. That's the sniveling of a spoiled brat, I'd like to think the members of this forum are better than that - leave that kind of selfishness to the WoW general forum, where it belongs. You'd really deny new players a faster route to 80, where 95% of the community is, just for your nostalgia for a game that doesn't exist anymore? Really?

How about, this is discouraging me from leveling another toon, because the sense of accomplishment that I would get out of it is greatly diminished due to the fact that it is so easy. Was it easy before? Yes (which is why these changes are stupid), but it was an investment. Getting your Epic flyer was an investment, now it is going to be a luxury set aside for mains and gathering toons.

I don't understand how you can call the people who are against this change the selfish ones. Is it not selfish that people are constantly bitching and complaining about how lvling is so boring and how it's so time consuming wanting blizzard to make it easier and the whiners getting their way? People are going to bitch and complain until they get everything handed to them on a silver platter and then they will complain that it's not on a gold platter.

Yes. I will deny players a faster route to 80, not because I'm a jerk, but because some people don't deserve it. I'm sorry, but if you just started playing a month ago and you are lvl 80, there is a problem. But hey, if you want to call me a "spoiled brat" go ahead because saying that nostalgia is the only reason why people dislike this change is as ignorant as saying it that people should just start with lvl 60-70-80 characters. "Hai guyz! I'm rdy 2 raid! Wut r bandages?!"

Hell, it's like right now with what they are doing to ulduar. We've spent the last month bashing our heads against Mimiron and Yogg Saron. After they made the changes to Mimiron (3 weeks ago?) we literally walked in the next night and 1-shot him. The changes they made to Yogg Saron this week are the same boat. We were having trouble getting through phase 1 but we were able to make it into phase 2 every few attempts. Now after the changes they made, walked right in and was consistently getting to phase 2-3 and ended up killing him on the first night we attempted him after the nerfs.

Are you going to tell me that making things easier has no effect on your sense of accomplishment? If so, I'm going to call bull shit on that or else I will call you the selfish one. "Sense of accomplishment" is what we get in this game. Hell, right now, we have 1 boss left for our 10 man Champion of Ulduar title. This is weak to say the least.

First of all, any accomplishments I get in WoW are honestly meaningless. Not that it's not fun, and that I don't get pumped when I do something cool, but in the grand scope of life, WoW is entertainment, and not a source of anything else. If you place worth on WoW accomplishments, then you are doing it wrong. It's part and parcel to how they sell the game, and keep you playing. I suggest you examine your attitudes, you might realize your need for meaningless accomplishments is pretty silly.

If the world thought the way you do, there would be no accomplishment, because nobody should be able to go past the first one. Ugg the caveman's idea for fire would cheapen the rest of the caveman's last winter freezing in a cave, after all, they had a hard time making it, why should new baby cave people get an easy winter in front of a fire?

And beyond that, who are you to determine what people "deserve", or not? Do you understand how insultingly obnoxious using the word "deserve" is, especially in the context of a video game? Do you actually think you are *BETTER* than other players, just because you played an older version of the same game? That you can sneer at new players or people rolling alts and actually think you have the right to determine their experience, based on what artificial yardsticks you choose to use? Are you serious?

THAT, my freind, is childish and selfish thinking.

Throw off the artificial accomplishments, accept the game for what it is, and enjoy it. If you want to pay to be frustrated, and be part of a community that actually believes performance in a video game is meaningful, EQ is probably better suited to your tastes. WoW is clearly not going to cater to that mindset, they made that decision before BC shipped. Not everyone picks up a copy of WoW so they can purposely frustrate and bore themselves silly for months.
06-17-2009, 12:45 PM
unseen

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Gadzooks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=209428#pos t209428

First of all, any accomplishments I get in WoW are honestly meaningless. Not that it's not fun, and that I don't get pumped when I do something cool, but in the grand scope of life, WoW is entertainment, and not a source of anything else. If you place worth on WoW accomplishments, then you are doing it wrong. It's part and parcel to how they sell the game, and keep you playing. I suggest you examine your attitudes, you might realize your need for meaningless accomplishments is pretty silly.

I understand your point and I agree with the majority of your post except the whole "this is just a game and it's meaningless" portion. While true, that's an easy out to basically discount anyone's protests about anything by simply marginalizing what they're talking about in whatever "the bigger scope of things" is.

I guess, to kind of throw your words back at you, who are you to tell people what to get from the game, whether that be a sense of accomplishment or just fun? ;)
06-17-2009, 03:41 PM
Duese

Quote:

And beyond that, who are you to determine what people "deserve", or not? Do you understand how insultingly obnoxious using the word "deserve" is, especially in the context of a video game? Do you actually think you are *BETTER* than other players, just because you played an older version of the same game? That you can sneer at new players or people rolling alts and actually think you have the right to determine their experience, based on what artificial yardsticks you choose to use? Are you serious?

I guess this would be the paragraph you would like me to respond to.

If you don't like me saying that people don't deserve to have things handed to them on a silver platter, so what. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it because I feel strongly for it and have always felt strongly for it. This is exactly the same context that you are "judging me for judging them" which I don't have a problem with. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean that I (or you) are wrong.

I strongly feel that the way they are speeding up leveling and making the game "easier" is detrimental to the game. Some of the biggest complaints from people is that their isn't enough content out and they have done all the current content. If you level up an alt right now, you experience maybe HALF the content than you originally did due to xp gains and gear rewards, even less with RAF. Not only that, but with so many of the "group" quests being converted to non-elite quests because people were having a hard time finding groups (with is a load of BS), the only real challenges were removed. So, basically, people are experiencing half the content and the content they are seeing, they are blowing through so quickly and easily that it's pointless to even really call it questing. This is how the changes that have been made to leveling are detrimental to the game. Throw in the BoA items that increase xp gains (which they are adding in another one that does stack) and it's getting even more ludicrous.

"But it's so boring"
Sorry, just because you have a lvl 80 doesn't mean that you deserve to have another max level character handed to you. It seems no one ever levels for the fun of it, all they do is level to get a max level character just so they can either do dailies or run naxx 10 and get free epics. Hey, if that's your playstyle, more power to you, but quit complaining about how the game design isn't catered to it. Shame on Blizzard for listening to the whiners. Typically the people I see complaining about it the most are people who just flat out don't know how to level. They are the people that have a friend come help them at lvl 33 to complete all the red quests in STV then complaining about not being able to find quests at lvl 40.

The last comment that I am going to make is directly in response to the negative connotation you are saying about the "context of a video game". This I don't understand and I have never understood. This media driven ideology that playing a video game requires no thought, skill or brainpower is as ignorant as the reports that violent video games cause kids to be violent, rather than the parents taking the blame for not being proper parents. I would argue that certain aspects of the video game world define your character more than watching the latest episode of Grey's Anatomy, 24 or the Simpsons, as is common in a non-gaming person. In the professional world, we spend a majority of our time working through the same tools that are in game (email, texting, chatting, etc.) To say that the "real world" and the video game experience are two mutually exclusive things is just ignorant.

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