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Just off how WoW spawns work, killing things fast enough increases the rate at which they spawn. This can be observed in a number of locations and situations. The point is, with a group of 25 characters, I would imagine you could find a nice plot of land to park yourself on, and just kill things as fast as they spawn. How fast this would level a raid group, I have no idea. They wouldn't necesarily even have to be raided. Just 5 5-man groups killing things fast enough to maximize respawns.
Bigfish that is exactly what I invision. I will never be exping in raid formation. 5 5 mans, as you say. If the first group tags dosnt even matter if everyone else does more damage in "eq lite" lol ...
Modifiers:
1 person group = 1.0
2 person group = 1.0
3 person group = 1.166
4 person group = 1.3
5 person group = 1.4
Mobs that are flagged as elite will give twice the amount of experience as a normal mob for the same level.
Elite XP = 2 * XP
Not sure if this applies to groups but:
Higher Level Mobs
XP = (Base XP) * (1 + 0.05 * (Mob Level - Char Level) ), where Mob Level > Char Level
Just need to make sure the mobs are elite and 4 or more levels above the highest in the group. Assuming that holds for groups:
Total XP will be: (Base XP) * (1.2) * (2) * (1.4) if I am in a group killing a elite mob 4 levels higher then the highest in the group. Maybe there is some kind of cap I dont know.
That sounds kinda nuts but I am sure that there will be some real edge over solo killing ...
Lol they dont have their parenthses right I bet the level bonus is .05 X the 4 level different or .2 so its 1.2 instead of the way they have it of 4.2 .. Still that is pretty phat for a single kill.
Also the reason some have said that this does not occur, and the reason it is not always observable is that the code may not kick in untill a ceritan floor of mobs is reached. Like that example of the tower guards, the guy didnt see instant respawns untill the total number fell below 6 in an area. So certian areas may have a lower limit of mobs before the code kicks in. So someone instantly killing a single mob wont observe the effect and conclude it does not exist. Also if you want insant respawn you must kill instantly, how many kill exp mobs in under 1 second?Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Bigfish',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93569#post9 3569
I multiboxed in EQ as well as in WOW. You wont have any problems multiboxing in WOW but there are differences.
First of all, these guys talk about leveling 5 separate groups but there is no comparison, leveling 5 groups to 70 in WOW takes less time than leveling one group to 50 took in EQ, let alone to lvl 70 or 80 plus AAs etc. Contrary to what you've heard, grinding is the most efficient means to lvl in WOW just as it was in EQ. The first guys to 60 and 70 on most servers were lone DPS classes (hunters typically) who grinded mobs and skipped quests. Min/maxing JUST grinding you can expect to finish about 25% faster than someone who does all the quests and spends time running around. Keep in mind however that raids pay a substantial exp penalty, and you'll be leveling each group independently. Also keep in mind that starting with Burning Crusade, grinding exp might be faster but wont necessarily be the best way to level. A substantial time sink especially early in your career is faction reputation... questing is the most efficient way to grind faction so it might make more sense to just do the quests.
In terms of utility, however they're right, unlike EQ which allowed more discretion in grouping raids and encounters, WOW is a much more regimented game. Most content is not suitable for a full 25 man raid. Dungeons since patch 2.x do not allow more than 5 characters, 10mans are limited to 10, and every battleground save AV does not support 25 man teams. World PVP (even on PVP servers) does not exist in WOW that support 25 combatants.
Of course WOW raiding is heavily based on EQ, down to the fact that Jeff Kaplan and Afrasiabi were recruited by Blizzard for their roles running LOS and FOH in EQ, the mechanics of the game are very different. For one thing there are much more active demands in raids in terms of dynamic positioning and tanking than in EQ. Most raids past tier 1 mandate that you actively move your characters as well as spam agro with your tanks during the course of the battle, if you can make 25 man raids work given the greater mob AI in WOW that would be awesome but both holding agro and positioning your characters takes much more work than in EQ. Not to mention dispelling/counterspelling etc. Also keep in mind that you're going to have to have separate spell rotations for each class not only between characters for healing but also with each individual character to get the DPS required. To contrast it to EQ for example to play a dps warrior you have to actively watch the swing timer in order to properly apply slam and mortal strike (not to mention WW and HS when mana permits) and that's ONE character, you'll need to be doing separate calculations for 15 dps in raid. To relate it to EQ every class is like playing a dumbed-down version of EQ's bard. There's less thinking and situational judgment in WOW than in EQ but timing is important, and there's a good deal of button mashing. You wouldn't exactly call it "skill" but you do have to move each character when your boss mod tells you to move or press the button when your swing mod tells you to swing. Some encounters such as Teron Gorefiend in BT basically involves one raidmember playing a minigame during the course of the encounter, it could take all your concentration to get through that single part, let alone manage your other 24 characters. I dont think it's impossible but IMO it would require more automation in macroing than is acceptable to Blizzard to solo some raid encounters.
Overall, boxing is much easier in WOW than EQ. Basically boxers in EQ were the best of the best, people who knew their classes inside and out.. and playing 2 characters was harder than playing 1, playing 3 was harder than 2 etc. In WOW, macros and add ons make boxing much easier than playing a single character, granted that you have your keyboard splitter/software correctly in place. For example boxing 5 shaman gives you the luxury of ignoring basic cooldown management and timing that playing 1 shaman necessitates... for example dueling a warrior as a single shaman, you'd have to wait for him to activate his global cooldown so you can get some distance from his intercept, fake his pummel with a .5 sec LB etc. Versus a mage you have to save the cooldown on your ES in order to interrupt the right spell or have decent timing to get your grounding totem up before sheep and after ice lance. Boxing gives you a much easier time of it... personally boxing shaman, I dont even have to bother interrupting heals or spells. worry about totem cooldown management, or think about counterspells, silences/fears... only to crank out max DPS in short order.
CAN you run 25 characters easily? Sure I'm not sure what the point would be... you can get as good gear a month or so later simply by having a single decent arena team.
We need to see what wintergrasp brings to the table. Its a whole zone, no limits to number of people, everyone can enter at the same time. ...
Someone did 10 box some raid so maybe some are more boxer friendly, who knows. Ya probably Ill level up 25 and then have to fight in groups of 10 or 5 or whatever, at least I can pick a solid 10 man team from my 25 or something, I don't know. Maybe attacking cities .. I mean I go into the enemy area someone will attack me I assume. I mean horde goes to the allaince starting city and no one bothers to attack them? How is that?
I'd say give it a shot, open up 25 trial accounts and you've got 10~ days or so to mess around with what you want to try, even if it is low levels you can get a feel for the game and how it plays out without any loss on your end.
I get the feeling that EQ is more pvp orinted than wow. Yes you can go into the capital cities but you'll be swarmed with never ending npcs that will kill you. I'm not even sure how much if any xp you get from killing another faction. What I see is that you'd get to an area.. something like kara entrance or something, wipe the players there and the people will just simple stop going there while you just sit there. Either that or the whole server is going to go after you and end up camping you.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93578#po st93578
Unfortunatly this does not work anymore, they limited it to 3 trial accounts on one IP :/Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93587#post935 87
Proxy + diffrent email addresses = win
Again you are showing your inexperience of not having played WoW much I'm afraid. Good luck finding large groups of elite mobs outside of instances that respawn at a reasonable rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93570#po st93570
If it's instances you are talking then fine. Go with AoE heavy groups, be a level or so higher, and just AoE your way through. If you are 4 levels lower however, you'll simply die.
Just need to find one that respawns instantly when killed instantly, maybe there is no such thing, who knows. Ok if I can't find eleits I go with mobs just 4 levels above ... Base X 1.2 X 1.4 is also fine.
I posted earlier in this thread about areas with respawn rates that are sustainable for grinding with multibox group. I posted 2.... Because they are the only ones I know of that still exist, and both are below L25....
Google "fast respawn wow" and similar searches, I've done it before, they are VERY few and far between...
And Btw Fur, even Tyr's hand and Hearthglen are non elite now.
I think 20 boxing would be more doable and then outfit a group of 5 others to compliment your set, which can fill in the tanking / healing roles, so that you can just go all out DPS. 20 Shaman would work wonders in this scenario.
Well right now I am leaning to 8 restro shaman for tremmor totams and chain healing max talents, for my defensive. and 1 war for tank and 16 mages for offensive.
Just can't see priests given how the chain heal is just so great for multi boxers.
And I am hoping that with 16 mages killing mobs instantly that some locations where mobs are not ususaly killed insantly might be found newly to respawn instantly. Thats all complete speculation though.
Right now working on switching clients without keyclone but ...
also not sure how yet how to reduce background clients rendering without keyclone either heh ...
Maybe a dumb version of keyclone that does not allow broadcasting (and thus would be less objectionable over the long term), but just allows switching and control of background and foreground rendering speeds (like WinEQ) might be considered.
That Jumpkeys might be the ticket, at least for switching.
Damn!Quote:
common practice is to ask all your newbie questions and then make another username once you know what you need to know, so you can pretend you knew it all and you were never a clueless newb,
Wish I'd thought of that!
:wacko:
You should really get a few trial accounts and log in. Get your feet wet and see the game mechanics.
Ill just pay for one month of 25 accounts, I really need to see how 25 work. Still its best to wait untill about 4 weeks after wolk is released so everything is stable and I can know what is best and what isnt without worry about change.
No. Dude. See how one group works. We aren't saying for no good reason. I've played EQ for several years and WoW for a couple. The gameplay you are thinking of is imagining that most 25 man content can be done with a straight trinty (Tank, Pew Pew, and Healers). Take a look at what Nixi has done recently, soloed the 10 man raid instance. Look at his group composition and look at what happens in the fights. Now watch some videos of boss fights, The combination you are talking of wont work if you are still maintaining you are going to do this bullshit "cycling". You will need to be using several diffrent abilities simultaneously on boss fights, targeting diffrent mobs in order not to wipe your raid. You need to look at the techniques and hardware/software setups we are currently using. Fights aren't as forgiving in WoW as they are in EQ. It can go from fine to wiping in a few seconds due to a couple of missed interrupts.
You really need to read up a shitload of the stuff on our wiki and boards.
I really think the following question needs to be asked:
What do you wish to achieve with your group? IE are you looking at doing PVE content - soloing instances and possibly raids? PvPing? Terrorising a server in world PvP?
Now I understand that this is to be post WotLK, so we are still getting data on how it will look.
Healing Classes
Your obviously looking for a healing/ressing class and both the Shaman and the Priest are suitable. I basically can't see a 25 man boxing group going without at least 1 Shaman, and the Priest will most likely create the better healer while moving. Both Chain heal and Circle of Healing appear to be a raid (several 5 man groups combined) boxer's dream. It appears they will both be "smart" heals that will hit the right people (WotLK onwards).
Tanking Classes
A single warrior tank basically will not be viable IMO. I would suggest a paladin for this role, mostly because they have AoE tanking abilities. They also Passively tank well, but it would appear that this may change somewhat in the expac. This would also provide the paladin buffs to your groups.
DPS Classes
The mage has some interesting abilities, but I'm unconvinced that this is the class to play. You are going to have mixed success with AoE grinding, and honestly, I'm not sure anyone has cracked the secret to this style of leveling. The Shaman is tried and proven to be quite effective against multiple mobs. They have instant casts, chain lightning (a spell that hits 3 targets), resurrection, self resurrection, possible fear mitigation (tremor totem) and can actually do partial tanking via their earth elemental totem.
I actually believe that a mix, mostly of Elemental Shaman(DPS) and Holy Priests(Healers) will be the way to go, and this "group" would probably be the best outdoor PvP setup.
It should be noted that Shaman have a larger pool of usable items due to their "Mail" clasification armor, but that they have more difficulties finding "ranged" slot items. Shaman should also be able to grind mobs in open zones without need for a separate tank, something that a mage will have more problems with.
Diminished XP from "Raid" grinding
I'm not exactly sure what the formula is, but I was under the impression that XP gained worked like this:
% that tapping party did of the mob is applied to the party
The XP applied is done in a ratio based off level (IE a level 70, a level 30 and a level 20 are in the party, the 70 soaks most of the xp, the 30 gets some, and the 20 gets less)
The XP then has a multiplier based on the mobs level vs the players level. the XP is about "correct" between -3 and +3 levels. I think there is a limit to where you get XP, and that is your (level/10)+5 below you will give you XP (I think this changes at very low and very high levels).
The XP is then doubled if your rested.
When in a party (2-5 people) there is a party bonus. This appears to be small, but based off your group size.
When in a raid (2-40 people, selected by modifying the party to a "raid") you receive a penalty.
IE: if you had 5 groups that all are separate, that all do 20% of the mobs health, the tapping party will get 20% of the mob's value of XP, and get to loot it.
If you had 5 seperate groups killing their own mob, each character will get about 20% of the mobs XP.
If you had a raid (of 25) that killed 5 mobs, each member would get a little less than 20% of the mobs XP (assuming all things equal).
I hope this is of assistance.
Sam isn't going to PVE, he thinks he's going to run around with a 25 man mob in the world and be an unstoppable PVP army.
Keep in mind that leveling 25 characters to 80 is going to be eye-gougingly horrible. Insanely, awfully, terribly, mind-numbingly boring. There are no magic spawns where you can just kick back and AoE for 50 levels, the fastest ways (instance boosting with a level 70 pally tank) still require lots of moving from A->B->C and repairing and are not "hands off". Even the ST trick from 35-55, which will probably get removed eventually, is only 35-55. Leveling 60-80 will be painful, you'll have to take groups of 5 into instances and run them over and over and over and over.
And I really think you are overestimating how good 25 players controlled by 1 person in PVP is going to be - you may gank a lot of solo nubs questing, but really, you could do that easily with 2 or 5 players. Halaa or the terrokar towers can sometimes get heavily contested, your 25 man army will have virtually no chance if a 10-15 man raid force decides to take you out. And every day you will find plenty of people who will do nothing more than hunt your team down and kill you, over and over and over.
Finally, Blizzard constantly juggles class balance - at the beginning of TBC melee was very underpowered, hunters were terrible, now near the end melee (rogues) are very powerful and hunters very good. So while you may roll 25 of the "OP" class (almost guaranteed to be deathknights), you may find a month or two later they are suddenly not so OP anymore.
I disagree. It will be more likely that nobody goes near him as he can 1 shot entire groups. But who world PvPs anyway? BGs? Good luck getting them all in AV.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'puppychow',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93907#pos t93907
This.. I can see some bored guild forming a raid and going after him for the novelty of it but outside of that.. world pvp in wow is non existent. You get your one/one pvp in contested areas but that's just that one on one. Again EQ and WOW two different games.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Xzin',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93921#post9392 1
i can image the guild application where it says
i multibox 25 char can i join your guild please. i have cleared karazhan, gruuls and marg so far..
or a multiboxer with 20 char. creating a guild and looking for tanks and healers :) now that would just be cool
Silver
That does not appear to be correctQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Syrass',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93888#post93 888
http://www.free-wow-leveling-guide.c...ower-leveling/
They claim that if you tag if first and everyone else who attacks the mob can also get exp from it there is no exp loss. ONLY if those who attack it cannot get exp from it (i.e. are way over its level, and yours) do you lose exp. My plan is to level everyone up at the same time, so all will be about the same level.
I'm not chosing classes based on a bunch of factors just on very few. Fear will kill boxers, so I need shamans. Shaman Chain Heal is ideal for boxers so I kill two birds with one stone and take shamans. Tank, who has most HP/AC - warrior no brainer. DPS. What class has the most damage, fastest casting, longest rage, lowest recycle time, single target nuke? Arcane Barage for Mag is the clear winner. My eq guys cast ONE HEAL, and the wizards cast ONE (maybe two if mob lives that long) Nuke. I am chosing a heal and a nuke.
I am not planing to aoe grind ...
Mostly plan to pvp but as everyone points out there is little or nothing for 25 group to do in pvp currently, again we need to see what wintergrasp turns out like. BG and Arena is out. MOST raids is out, surely SOME raids will be tank and spank friendly. Maybe I will just have to have 25 but do 5X5's ... unless they change the queing system to keep raids together or something. Of course I can start a guild, and do raids that way (like everyone else does lol).
I can only move one group at a time so even assuming the priest is better healing while being attacked or while moving, 4 groups won't be moving. Shaman does both, anti fear and heal (and is more durable the priest).
Im trying to watch movies but the best I can find are 640 X 480 and they look horrible on my 1920 X 1200 monitor. Are their any really high rez (1080i or 720p) wow videos out there?
Seems lot of complaining about "premade" raids in AV:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...7260&sid=1#163
Quote:
It is insanely easy to get your teamates into an AV right now without 15+ minute queues.
How? "ok everyone, Q in 3, 2, 1 NOW!"
Wait 3 minutes, if everyone gets the same AV, you go. If not, don't, do again. Almost always works out.
There are even mods that do it for you
Lots of QQing on the wow forums about "pre mades" and "av afkers" ... It appears that boxers sure have an edge in that all their characters are on the same page, seems in AV 1/3 is afk and the rest have like 10 who are following their core statagy to win and the rest are farming honor or just doing whatever. Ya a 25 boxer would get completly destroyed by a codenated 15 people easy, but against random oppenents with no plan?
Also if I play during dead hours (3 am pst) its a lot more likly that my guys will end up together in the same AV BG, also there is a way to choose the one you get I think but not all 25 will get it, but who knows .. ?
taking instant gib to a whole new level... :thumbsup:
[quote='Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93946#po st93946]
[quote='Syrass',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93888# post93888]Diminished XP from "Raid" grinding
I'm not exactly sure what the formula is, but I was under the impression that XP gained worked like this:
% that tapping party did of the mob is applied to the party
The XP applied is done in a ratio based off level (IE a level 70, a level 30 and a level 20 are in the party, the 70 soaks most of the xp, the 30 gets some, and the 20 gets less)
The XP then has a multiplier based on the mobs level vs the players level. the XP is about "correct" between -3 and +3 levels. I think there is a limit to where you get XP, and that is your (level/10)+5 below you will give you XP (I think this changes at very low and very high levels).
The XP is then doubled if your rested.
When in a party (2-5 people) there is a party bonus. This appears to be small, but based off your group size.
When in a raid (2-40 people, selected by modifying the party to a "raid") you receive a penalty.
IE: if you had 5 groups that all are separate, that all do 20% of the mobs health, the tapping party will get 20% of the mob's value of XP, and get to loot it.
If you had 5 seperate groups killing their own mob, each character will get about 20% of the mobs XP.
If you had a raid (of 25) that killed 5 mobs, each member would get a little less than 20% of the mobs XP (assuming all things equal).[/quote]
That does not appear to be correct
[url]http://www.free-wow-leveling-guide.com/warcraft-world-leveling/power-leveling/[/url]
They claim that if you tag if first and everyone else who attacks the mob can also get exp from it there is no exp loss. ONLY if those who attack it cannot get exp from it (i.e. are way over its level, and yours) do you lose exp. My plan is to level everyone up at the same time, so all will be about the same level.
[/quote]
[size=9][color=#57595a][font='Trebuchet MS']I'm not sure exactly what your suggesting isn't correct, and I'm happy to put up my hand to say I'm incorrect.[/font][/color][/size]
1. If your not in the group that tagged the mob, your not getting XP from it (those 20 characters aren’t in the tagging group, they get 0XP from the kill).
2. There was a change (and I haven’t done this, so I am working from memory - and I'm not near my machines to specifically test it) that reduced the XP that you get from having people outside the tagging group help you.
This stops you creating a 5 man group - with a 20 man raid behind them (but not grouped with them), the 5 man group taps it, the 20 man raid also opens and you kill the mob with 25, distributing the XP from the mob kill to just 5. Or more simply, having a mate run around with their level 70 ripping up the boars after you tag them on your level 10. I'm fairly sure in this case, your XP gain (on the level 10) is based on the percentage damage done to the mob. If the level 70 was in the group, you would receive a percentage of the kill based on your level difference to your party members. The 70 would take most of the quota (and not actually get any XP due to the calculations done afterwards) and your 10 would gain an amount.
3. When your in a party, you get a party XP bonus from mob kills. It is small, but I believe it is to encourage grouping in outdoor common areas. When your in a raid, you receive a raid penalty on mob kill XP (This may require further investigation, I believe the amount can be shown the combat log - again, I am not at my computers to test).
[quote='Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93946#po st93946]
I'm not chosing classes based on a bunch of factors just on very few. Fear will kill boxers, so I need shamans. Shaman Chain Heal is ideal for boxers so I kill two birds with one stone and take shamans. Tank, who has most HP/AC - warrior no brainer. DPS. What class has the most damage, fastest casting, longest rage, lowest recycle time, single target nuke? Arcane Barage for Mag is the clear winner. My eq guys cast ONE HEAL, and the wizards cast ONE (maybe two if mob lives that long) Nuke. I am chosing a heal and a nuke.
I am not planing to aoe grind ...
Mostly plan to pvp but as everyone points out there is little or nothing for 25 group to do in pvp currently, again we need to see what wintergrasp turns out like. BG and Arena is out. MOST raids is out, surely SOME raids will be tank and spank friendly. Maybe I will just have to have 25 but do 5X5's ... unless they change the queing system to keep raids together or something. Of course I can start a guild, and do raids that way (like everyone else does lol).
I can only move one group at a time so even assuming the priest is better healing while being attacked or while moving, 4 groups won't be moving. Shaman does both, anti fear and heal (and is more durable the priest).
[/quote]
[b]Class Selections[/b]
[size=9][color=#57595a][font='Trebuchet MS']I agree that for 25 Box, shaman will be very valuable, and I do agree they should have a presence. They are viable as both a healer (especially in boxing) and as a DPS.[/font][/color][/size]
Arcane Barrage is nice, but if your rotating through groups and waiting for the 3 sec CD to be off, why not just cast a spell that takes 3 sec if your not going to be moving? They will do a lot more damage, but the benefit of Barrage is that it is instant - you cast on the run. If your planning on moving like this, you would want a complimenting heal (instant) where CoH (Priest) is far superior than chain heal (or lesser healing wave which may take over the spot of Chain heal in WotLK.
As this doesn’t appear to be the case (about moving and casting on the run), a Frostmage setup may be the way to go using Frostfire/Frostbolt. As the talents are still being "polished", its hard to tell, but it may be possible to go for a shatter combo setup. It may also be useful to use Arcane Missile, as this turns your characters to face the mob when they lock on (assuming the mob is within 180deg) and can be talented to use low agro - meaning your tank has more chance of holding the mob (or less time spent trying to hold it). Just remember that Mages defend themselves very actively. If a mob is on a mage while your boxing - he has a low survival probability.
As for the tank selection, you want the character with the most life and armor? At 70 (and probably 80) that is a druid. Can the druid hold agro without being micro managed? I don't think so. The paladin forms (in my eyes) the best tank for boxing as it creates agro in a passive manner. This means you can focus on your groups more.
Got frost mages going? It appears that an unholy/Frost Deathknight will increase their damage by up to 9%. Got Elemental Shaman spamming LB - Try a Moonking Druid for a potential 6% damage increase that can cast Wrath in approximately the same rotation. A Ret Pally Tank may add 2% damage and 3% haste in WotLK and still be able to tank.
How stuff is currently done in WoW (Macros and things)
Basically when boxing in WoW you use the ingame /follow command. This allows your character to "train" behind another player of the same faction. The character will simply turn to face that character then run after them as they move. This means that most boxing teams will have a "main" and the rest on follow. People then duplex commands to characters, usually creating simple in game macros (Blizzard implemented this feature, and supports the use of these macros). In its simplest form this means that your main will target something, you hit a key and that character will start to cast (say FFB) and then duplex to the other 24 and they will hit the macro that - 1. targets the thing your main character is targeting, 2. Cast FFB.
This means that you move one character and the rest follow - you don't duplex the movements across. And you press one button to duplex groups into uniform movements.
This means that you can have the movement of one character, run after something and Barage it down, all 25 characters (effectively) running together and casting while on the run. Based on this assumption, I would suggest priests would be the most suitable class as a healer.
Raids
At the moment, no battleground will let you queue 25 characters into the same game through basic in game means. There are mods that let you do this fairly effectively, and you can even place an "auto join" threshold. IE if 20 of your characters get the same game, they will simply join.
Having a tank suggest PvE content. While I understand this isn't the focus, I'm sure that the possibility of this aspect of the game shouldn't be ruled out. Most PvE raids don’t work off the same as the 5man "standard". In 5 man wow, you expect a tank a healer and 3 DPS. In raids it depends on the encounter - but its more like 1-3 tanks, 7-8 Healers, 15 or so DPS.
Disclaimer: This isn't the only way, just the way that many seem to use, and it seems to work well. All people are people, therefore we hope they have thought processes and the ability to make decisions. If you are incapable of making your own decisions, go away now. Much of this is simply theory, and may be untested on this scale. I don't know everything, I am not God today, even if I think I am.
It changes a lot of my anayisis if I am able to auto follow one with 25, it did not appear to me that such was possible, gonna read up on it now. I need a tank for pvp also so that I can follow that lead character and target off him (assist), so he has to be hardy and stay up. Also if he draws fire then fire is not going to the weak mages. Thats why 4 shaman are in his group ..
But let me see about this duplex or 24 auto follow 1.
Well ya you can do it. Maybe I am completly wrong ... they do say that if you send the identical signal to multiple clients its legal, which means of course that keyclone is legal, and if they do change it I would think given their current stance they would have to give a warning before banning if they change the policy:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...pageNo=1&sid=1
Ok Ill reply in full tommorow looks like I just might move to using keyclone and sending same signal to all clients at the same time ...Quote:
Q u o t e:
Semantics issue #2:
Software (such as Keyclone, Octopus, etc) to emulate a keyboard multiboxing solution is, by nature, "3rd party". Is "3rd party software" synonymous with "bot" or "automation"? Are all types of "3rd party software" bannable?
Likewise, hardware, by nature, is "3rd party". What kinds (or uses) of 3rd party hardware are bannable?
Is it sending an identical signal to all client windows or switching between them to send commands? Not automation.
Is it playing the game for you, or rather, for one of your client windows? Automation.
All hardware is considered neutral as long as its commands and features are not being used to automate gameplay.
And you are right about moving/not moving, its not resonable to claim that Ill use chain heal because Im not moving and then use an instant on the mages because I am ...
[quote='Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=94019#po st94019]It changes a lot of my anayisis if I am able to auto follow one with 25, it did not appear to me that such was possible, gonna read up on it now. I need a tank for pvp also so that I can follow that lead character and target off him (assist), so he has to be hardy and stay up. Also if he draws fire then fire is not going to the weak mages. Thats why 4 shaman are in his group ..
But let me see about this duplex or 24 auto follow 1.[/quote]
[size=9][color=#57595a][font='Trebuchet MS']Fairly simply, you have your WoW action bar. You can write a macro (/follow Samdeathwalker) and place it on "3" so that you simply send a keyboard stroke of "3" to 24 clients.[/font][/color][/size]
Most wow boxers will run a contingency plan for when their "main" goes down, but I guess with 25 you can probably "Waste" a character as your leader character. In this case, I would actually suggest that you run a paladin. The Protection Paladin is set up for sheer survival through damage absorption. It has an immunity bubble that can be used every few minutes, has the ability to heal, but most importantly survives through mitigation. They are also versatile and can buff your characters (10% extra stats for example) and are "Tough". Fairly simply there will be 4 possible tanks in WotLK - Warrior (I don't recommend this), Paladin, Druid (Moonkin may be an option - or feral bear) and Deathknight(DK).
An interesting twist is that the Deathknight may be what you seek. It appears that it may have an aura to have your group run up to 15% faster, and Area Magic mitigation ability and a self magic absorb mechanic. With the mage "instant" setup you may be able to run down opponents quite effectively. This is yet to be confirmed. DKs may also be able to "pull" opponents to them.
I still personally like the idea of Shaman as the DPS and 5 (or so) Priests. The priests also bring a life buff, and one could possibly bring a Spirit buff that increases spell damage. Shaman also have spells that are similar to baragge - look up "shock" - there are a number of them. The Chain Lightning is awesome in PvP, and works like the chain heal. Basically if you have a group after you - Chainlightning is your friend. At this stage (and we can expect it to get nerfed) Elemental Shaman also get a totem that adds 3% crit to spellcasts. If you had 14 shaman (assume 5 priests and a pally/DK) these would all stack, giving you over a 50% chance to crit with each hit (once talents etc are factored in).
The 3percent crit totem is just for party members.
Assuming movement then comparing instant spells, mage is about 1000 single target damage every 3 seconds. shaman is about the same damage spread over 3 enemies every 6 seconds.
For pure offense mage is still better, unless of course its way overkill and a lot is wasted, which would not be the case with the shamans.
http://www.wowwiki.com/TankQuote:
Protection specced Warriors with appropriate gear are the best Boss Encounter tanks in the game. They have the best damage mitigation vs. single targets, and the largest and most versatile array of tools for tanking, which includes threat generating tools such as Revenge, Shield Slam and multiple taunts, many mitigation abilities, and finally a few panic buttons like Shield Wall and Last Stand. The only problem area for warrior tanks is aggro generation, particularly their initial aggro generation is lower. In long fights, all three main tank types actually create comparable amounts of aggro. Finally, Warriors depend more on their gear than any other class (this can also be a boon, because a warrior can increase his abilities further than the other classes with better gear).
Let me read more about the DK. Im not so sure about agro Ill be killing things kinda fasts anyways. For pvp warrior has the best damage mitigation also I assume.
[quote='Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=94030#po st94030]The 3percent crit totem is just for party members.
Assuming movement then comparing instant spells, mage is about 1000 single target damage every 3 seconds. shaman is about the same damage spread over 3 enemies every 6 seconds.
For pure offense mage is still better, unless of course its way overkill and a lot is wasted, which would not be the case with the shamans.[/quote]
[size=9][color=#57595a][font='Trebuchet MS']Seems that they have just fixed the WoA totem - it does now specifically say "Party" and not "Group". There was information that shaman totems would be raid wide, it seems they have fixed this (in respect to WoA).[/font][/color][/size]
The Mages will have a bigger damage output, but fairly simply taking today’s numbers - heavy end game tanks are around 24k life (raid buffed). Mages with fireblast (similar to barrage, but in today’s terminology) do around 1200 damage (quite decent pvp gear).
This means that with 15 mages, and 5 crits from them (Fire mages would usually have around 30% crit), you will "One shot" basically any character out there.
Its believed that barrage will do more damage, and scale better than fireblast has. So to scale that up - I dont see anyone surviving from 15 instants (even the shaman should 1 shot people if there are 15 of them).
The problem here is that your only killing 1 person every 3 seconds. I guess you can thread in fireblast and kill 3 people every 6 seconds, and maybe icelance on the other GCD.
I think you really do need to do a bit of a trial and see what you like. The mages will be viable, IMO, but they wont be very hardy. With this number of Mages, it may even be worth going frost and just icelance spamming people down.
There is a 33/0/38 build that will give shamans full chain heal and up to lightning mastery in elemental (no tow). That would be 24 chain lightning alternating with 24 chain heals, every 6 seconds ... Have to be stationary for 3 seconds of that though. Thats would be some serious serious defensive and very solid offensive.
DK clearly will require lots of micro management to play well to their full abilities. I think a warrior will do most of his mitigation without doing a bunch of things. Ya he brings more to the table, if played properly to his max but with 25 toons its keep it simple.
Looking like female draenei is the way to go considering I have to look at the toons forever ...
You won't have any problems getting experience as pbaoe will work all the way to level 80 when the expansion is released. However, I'm sorry to inform you, but it will take you at least 2 years of constant playing 16 hours a day for you to get all 25 characters to level 80 (when the expansion is released because you're not going to be making level 70 prior to then). How would I know this? For several reason, one is that I've leveled up 5 characters to level 70 at the same time and it takes a very long time to do this. I'm also working on 15 shamans right now on a PvP realm. They are level 22 so far and I'm anticipating that they will all be about level 55 about November of this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=92045#po st92045
I've also boxxed in Everquest 1, you didn't indicate that you were using 1 or 2 of Everquest, but since you didn't put the 2 there, I am guessing you boxxed 24 in Everquest 1. World of Warcraft is VERY very different from Everquest. Some of the things you posted that you were going to do in WoW, don't apply. For example, you mentioned you would wait at a zone in to an instance and kill players as they joined. It doesn't work like that in WoW. In Everquest, you could wait at certain areas for players to join an instance. In WoW battlegrounds, you have a mission to do such as cap a flag or kill enemy bosses at certain areas or carry a flag to the opposing base. The WoW battlegrounds don't exist in Everquest 1, they are kind of like the battles you see in 1st person shooters with flag runs, flag capping, etc. A new player will only join a battleground if someone left or if there was an open slot. So waiting for a player to join thinking you're going to kill them when they do is not feasible.
If you do box 25 characters in WoW, you'll be the highest I've seen so far outside of me boxxing 15. So far I've not heard of anyone that has boxxed more than 10 characters in WoW other than myself. My boxxing days started in Diablo 1 in January 1997. And I boxxed Everquest in March 1999 (four days after it was released). So I can understand what it is you want to do.
I stopped playing Everquest in January 2007 and didn't hear of the 'rested' method you've mentioned. In WoW, there is a rested mode where if you are logged out or standing in an Inn or major city, you accumulate time that is applied to getting double experience later on. If you stand in an Inn or a major city and you camp out, this is the best for accumalating time to getting double experience later on. However, the real pay off is only if you leave them that way for at least a week. Anything less and you get double experience only for a little while when you log in and play. So if you're planning to play all 25 characters at the same time and play them every day, you won't be getting double experience for long and it won't be worth even thinking about.
If you're planning to box 25 characters in WoW, I would suggest that you start with that number. Don't start with 5 and get them to level 70 then another 5 to level 70 because it will take at least twice maybe even times as long to get them all to level 70 than it would if you boxxed all 25 of them. However, as I said before, it will still take you about 2 years to get all of them to level 80. Not only are you going to be learning how WoW works (and how different it is from EQ), but you won't be able to get experience in raid form (at least not be able to get very much anyway) plus you'll need to be in a group to do the quests. If you're in a raid, most quests will not be able to be completed because kills won't count etc. Another thing I would suggest is that you don't do any gathering quests that involve collecting many pieces. There are plenty of quests in the world and once you complete the kill quests and single item gathering quests, you can move on to other locations that have quests at the same level that have more kill and single item gathering quests. Another thing I would recommend is that you don't do any dungeons or PvP until you're at max level (80 for when the expansion is released). This would allow you to focus your time on levelling instead of getting equipment because you won't need equipment if you have 25 characters helping the experience group. You should start with a 10-day free subscription with all of your accounts so that you don't have to set up a subscription until after that time. You'll need to buy the game for all accounts and you'll have 30 days to play them all before you have to start paying the subscription.
There are some very big bugs in WoW that probably will never be fixxed. One of them is the dreaded 'Graphics location bug' as I call it. Players that box in WoW know of this bug very well. It involves you getting hit by some mob that you can't see or that you see way off in the distance and you can't hit him or you'll be at one location with your boxxed group showing on the map at a different location but they are really right next to you. The 'Graphics location bug' shows up mostly when you stop for a little while and then move again. At least that's when it happens to me most of the time. Just letting you know about this so when you box in WoW, you're prepared and can handle it. If a mob is hitting you that you can't see, look around corners or off in the distance and you might see him hitting something that isn't there. The best thing to do is either run away or run to where you see him hitting on nothing then you can attack him there.
I would highly suggest you use Octopus or Keyclone as your keyboard replication software. This will drastically help in multiboxing in WoW. I didn't use anything like them for years in Diablo 1 or Everquest 1 or even WoW until a few months ago. Having separate keyboards will work for multiboxing but keyboard replication software helps tremendously in getting things done.
Another suggestion is that you box all 25 shamans. Why shamans? For several reasons. One is that they can all heal. Another is they can all cast direct damage spells or AOE. They all have a few instant cast spells. They all wear Chain (after level 40). They all get ghost wolf form at level 20 (allows faster movement). They all can rez or do their own instant rez (with a reagent). They will all be able to put down 4 totems each at high levels. They will all be able to cast a fire or earth elemental at later levels. In contrast to the mage, the mage wears cloth armor, has direct damage and AOE spells, but doesn't have rez nor heals nor ghost wolf form. The mage has a water elemental later in levels. All in all, the shaman is the best class (in my humble opinion of course) to multibox in World of Warcraft. I would also suggest starting your characters on a PvP realm. If you decide later to move to a non-PvP realm, it will cost $25 per character to move, however if you start your characters on a non-PvP realm, you cannot move them to a PvP realm.
Auto-follow in WoW works 10 times better than it does in Everquest. Macros in WoW work 10 times better than Everquest also. However, the most annoying bug in WoW to me is one where your main that you're assisting doesn't have a target and all your clones do an assist from him (either using his name or focus) and the clones chose random targets nearby. It should be such that if your main doesn't have a target your clones should not get a target when you assist him. Another bug in WoW that is very annoying is that the key labeled 'Target nearest enemy' doesn't always target the nearest enemy. It usually targets something directly in front of you, but it can also target mobs in back of you or to your sides. Everquests 'target nearest enemy' was flawless and I got used to that. With WoW, it's bugged out bad and if you're like me, you don't use the mouse to target mobs in battle, you use the keyboard.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. Good luck and if you do choose to play shaman, choose Orc, they are solid! :-) But if you decide mage is the way you're going to do, definitely choose undead. Whatever you do, please don't choose Alliance!
I just dont think you pack the punch you want until you get to Elemental Oath/Lightning Overload (current beta Talents)
On the flip side, Natures Blessing and Blessing of the Eternals will increase the healing amount in a big way.
There has also been discussions about Druids getting a CoH style heal, which may even be better than CoH/Chain Heal. I nearly wonder if it isn't worth taking one of each (Priest and Druid), with 3 fully resto shaman to have 5 dedicated healers, this will give you some healing on the move (just bind the CoH and Flourish with the Chain heal button, and if they are moving, the chainheals wont go off).
This will also provide additional buffs to add damage and survivability to the group, as well as the druid possibly adding +heal received by the group. This doesn’t mean that the resto's wouldn't use LB, and that the others wouldn't heal. If that was the proposal, that would suggest 1 Reto Duid, 1 Prot Pally, 1 Holy/Disc Priest, and 22 shaman Resto/Elemetal.
At that rate its nearly worth looking at swapping the Priest for another Resto Druid, and the pally for a feral druid. You could then spec the Shaman into Instant Ghost Wolf, the Druids would take travel form, and the Feral "Tank" would use improved cat form - moving your group faster than normal while in combat.
I really think you need to have a look at the game, see how the interactions work, see how you handle combat in motion, and how the characters "follow" then decide if you can handle the 2.5 sec cast on frostbolt/lightning and if you would instead go for instant spells.
Maybe the Mage/Shaman setup is coming back around.
Cant get elemental Oath with 34. Will have all 5 in Lightning Overload though.
I get improved chain heal 2, and Purification with 37, and 5 of tidel mastry, no natures blessing or blesisng of the eternals ... Maybe there is better ways:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/...03530002000000
That is so true ... Levels is more important then anything.Quote:
This would allow you to focus your time on levelling instead of getting equipment because you won't need equipment if you have 25 characters helping the experience group
Well have to log in at 3 am to get my PHAT LOOTZ from LGuK in EQ1 - will finsih later
Gotta think on present content. And present content, where u can put all 25chars to use is on AV, a 40 man Battleground, where u pretty much could turn the tide of battle, but like Zin said, u can only put Queue on party, thats 5 man (u can use and addon to try and q more at the same time, but it takes time)
Classic WoW allowed raids of 40 men, u dont have that now. U wouldnt take much advantage of having 25 toons - dont get me wrong, is a lot of power and will - but u wont have fun IMO. No one will be near u to get instakilled.
I'll try to make it simple according to what i think u are looking for, and what i think:
u won't take advantage of that power unless in some strange, huge ocasion like a world event or a gathering, something that happens like once a year. the idea is impressive, but the leveling would be so hard, and the 70 content available to a man boxing 25 soooooo little, that the effort wouldnt be worth it.
It is the WoW forums, there are always people complaining about something. Either their own class is underpowered, or another class (or all of the other classes) are overpowered, or any other thing that they can find to whine about.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93125#po st93125
I think this forum is much more tolerant of "look at me, see what I did!" type of posts. It's one of the things that most of us like about it, seeing what another person has managed to do via multiboxing. Sam's posts in other forums (the FoH forums are the ones I have in mind) were not really a fit for those forums, they were often more general in terms of subject matter and there was little or no interest in what he was doing with 6, 12, or 500 characters. Here, that is the whole reason for the forums, seeing what we can achieve with multiple characters. If he wants to crown himself king of DPS or king of HKs or king of getting camped by the opposite faction, no one here is going to care enough to start long flame threads. I think people will be interested in seeing how he did whatever it is he is boasting of doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'samfan',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93381#post93 381
In other words, it's like he's come home*.
*And that is a line that will surely generate more ridicule than the universe can handle!
You might want to look into the "ease of use" of Paladin tanks over Warrior for multi-boxing purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93728#po st93728
And when it comes to power leveling, a Paladin is best from level 40+.
I just did Zolo on my 2nd poorly geared 70 Paladin and it does the job great.
I've tested just my 70 just this weekend with a 43 Shaman who exhausted his exp bonus. In a 22 minute Zolo fight, I got 78k exp for the 43 Shaman.
Then it got rediculous when I added 3 lowbie Paladins from 38 to 41 in the mix. Each Paladin was taking turns casting DI so after the 3rd DI, I would kill Zolo because I've exhausted 3 shields and my armor's durability was close to 0. My 3rd paladin went from 38 to 50 over 2 "sessions" of Zolo.
Check out Semihrage in The Underbog US for the crappy gear of this paladin tank that p-levels in Zolo Sunken Temple.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...og&n=Semihrage
25 targets is a nice HK farm. I know I'd send my 4-box team if I see him in a BG.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Xzin',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93921#post9392 1